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Posted: 1/28/2014 5:41:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2014 5:51:58 AM EDT by enigma2y0u]
It's supposed to get 45* today and 16* tonight.  Tomorrow is supposed to be warmer.  

It is a 36sq-ft pad for an outdoor kitchen.  The ground below the concrete is basically frozen, but it is pea gravel for a couple inches.

I want to get the pour done so I can stack the block on Friday.

I can cover it tonight, but I don't have a heater.


It has to basically be the foundation for a corner pizza oven and counter space.


Link Posted: 1/28/2014 5:44:12 AM EDT
I wouldn't try it.
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 5:45:38 AM EDT


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wabbithunter:

I wouldn't try it.
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Link Posted: 1/28/2014 5:46:04 AM EDT
Should be 45 degrees and rising.  I wouldn't pour unless your life depended upon it.  And even then I would cover it with a heavy tarpaulin as soon as you were sure the surface wouldn't be damaged beyond acceptable levels.
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 5:49:52 AM EDT
pour = problems down the road
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 5:50:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2014 5:53:48 AM EDT by sitdwnandhngon]
You are just going to make more work for yourself.

You shouldn't pour over frozen ground, it is expanded because of the ice crystals. Come spring that sucker will settle back down and no longer be level.

You could dig down 40 inches and fill the entire hole with washed stone and compact it, but that would be a bastard.

Everything is frozen solid here too, I built these steps last month, under them is an 8 ft hole all the way to virgin soil and filled with clean stone right to the top, then a pinned conrete footer.

Link Posted: 1/28/2014 5:51:31 AM EDT
After ground thaws youll wonder why you did it

If it isnt pressing, wait until warmer weather
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 5:52:59 AM EDT
Absolutely not.  I've been in the ready-mix business for years.  You're asking for trouble
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 6:05:29 AM EDT
Even if this pad just has to support counter space like in the pic?
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 6:08:56 AM EDT
Yeah..."pizza oven."

Your quickcrete B2 Bomber is going to be a miserable failure.
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 6:10:09 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By enigma2y0u:
Even if this pad just has to support counter space like in the pic?
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Is the ground truly frozen solid?

If it is then it is going to move when it thaws.

There is a reason they make massive diesel powered ground defrosters for commercial work, building over frozen ground is just asking for trouble.
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 6:13:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2014 6:17:34 AM EDT by enigma2y0u]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon:


Is the ground truly frozen solid?

If it is then it is going to move when it thaws.

There is a reason they make massive diesel powered ground defrosters for commercial work, building over frozen ground is just asking for trouble.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon:
Originally Posted By enigma2y0u:
Even if this pad just has to support counter space like in the pic?


Is the ground truly frozen solid?

If it is then it is going to move when it thaws.

There is a reason they make massive diesel powered ground defrosters for commercial work, building over frozen ground is just asking for trouble.


No I wouldn't say the ground is frozen like ice and snow, but it is probably at a freezing temp.  We are in the desert, there really is no water in the soil to speak of.  I can go out there an grab a handful of dirt and sprinkle it like sand.  I don't think I have an issue with heaving.  There was a pile of sand where the main corner area was that I did break apart with a pick because the mound was frozen some, but it was also left over quikrete for the wall footers so I couldn't answer whether it was actually frozen or some spots just had cement mixed in.

The reason I am still considering it is because my work schedule doesn't allow me to pick a week.  I work away from home and only have certain times I can do this stuff. (I already bought the bags too )

I have a propane tank and could borrow a little propane heater to put under a tarp towards the evening if it would help.

Link Posted: 1/28/2014 6:13:52 AM EDT
When you say quickcrete, do you mean the pre-mixed stuff from home depot, lowes, et al?

I hope not.  Shitty aggregate, low cement ratio, no air entrainment.  If you do go that way, consider adding some extra cement and some dish soap.  Also, some mesh will help prevent cracks.
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 6:14:35 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MultipleFractures:
When you say quickcrete, do you mean the pre-mixed stuff from home depot, lowes, et al?

I hope not.  Shitty aggregate, low cement ratio, no air entrainment.  If you do go that way, consider adding some extra cement and some dish soap.  Also, some mesh will help prevent cracks.
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It's fine for footers.
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 6:16:08 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By enigma2y0u:


No I wouldn't say the ground is frozen like ice and snow, but it is probably at a freezing temp.  We are in the desert, there really is no water in the soil to speak of.  I can go out there an grab a handful of dirt and sprinkle it like sand.  I don't think I have an issue with heaving.

The reason I am still considering it is because my work schedule doesn't allow me to pick a week.  I work away from home and only have certain times I can do this stuff.

I have a propane tank and could borrow a little propane heater to put under a tarp towards the evening if it would help.

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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By enigma2y0u:
Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon:
Originally Posted By enigma2y0u:
Even if this pad just has to support counter space like in the pic?


Is the ground truly frozen solid?

If it is then it is going to move when it thaws.

There is a reason they make massive diesel powered ground defrosters for commercial work, building over frozen ground is just asking for trouble.


No I wouldn't say the ground is frozen like ice and snow, but it is probably at a freezing temp.  We are in the desert, there really is no water in the soil to speak of.  I can go out there an grab a handful of dirt and sprinkle it like sand.  I don't think I have an issue with heaving.

The reason I am still considering it is because my work schedule doesn't allow me to pick a week.  I work away from home and only have certain times I can do this stuff.

I have a propane tank and could borrow a little propane heater to put under a tarp towards the evening if it would help.



Mix it with hot water then, and throw a piece of plastic over it and some straw, dirt, blankets, whatever you have to insulate with.

I use a heat blanket and rolled foam often.
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 4:12:14 PM EDT
Well I went for it.

We had some old comforters and a bunch of cardboard boxes that I covered it with.

I guess the worst that can happen is it completely fails . But I am not really sure how I would know.
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 4:17:58 PM EDT
Thaw ground.  Mix with hot water and keep covered
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 4:21:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 4:29:51 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon:


Mix it with hot water then, and throw a piece of plastic over it and some straw, dirt, blankets, whatever you have to insulate with.

I use a heat blanket and rolled foam often.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon:
Originally Posted By enigma2y0u:
Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon:
Originally Posted By enigma2y0u:
Even if this pad just has to support counter space like in the pic?


Is the ground truly frozen solid?

If it is then it is going to move when it thaws.

There is a reason they make massive diesel powered ground defrosters for commercial work, building over frozen ground is just asking for trouble.


No I wouldn't say the ground is frozen like ice and snow, but it is probably at a freezing temp.  We are in the desert, there really is no water in the soil to speak of.  I can go out there an grab a handful of dirt and sprinkle it like sand.  I don't think I have an issue with heaving.

The reason I am still considering it is because my work schedule doesn't allow me to pick a week.  I work away from home and only have certain times I can do this stuff.

I have a propane tank and could borrow a little propane heater to put under a tarp towards the evening if it would help.



Mix it with hot water then, and throw a piece of plastic over it and some straw, dirt, blankets, whatever you have to insulate with.

I use a heat blanket and rolled foam often.


The process is exothermic.  What point would there be in using hot water?  If you need hot water, you ought not be doing it.  If the exothermic reaction isn't enough, you ought not to be pouring.

Your only acceptable problem regarding temps would be the need to add ice to the mix to slow the reaction.  This is done all the time on big pours, especially bridge columns in very hot, humid regions.
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 4:34:13 PM EDT
There's an admixture called Polarset that helps concrete set down to 20 degrees. Fairly inexpensive too. I think we pay about $8 per yard, of course that's in bulk.
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 4:48:54 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TontoGoldstein:

The process is exothermic.  What point would there be in using hot water?  If you need hot water, you ought not be doing it.  If the exothermic reaction isn't enough, you ought not to be pouring.

Your only acceptable problem regarding temps would be the need to add ice to the mix to slow the reaction.  This is done all the time on big pours, especially bridge columns in very hot, humid regions.
View Quote


We use hot water up here all the time on iffy days, speeds the set time up so you can actually get a finish on it and get it insulated before night time.

I have been mixing my mortar all winter with 150 degree water, takes an initial set in about half the time and coupled with the heaters actually stays above freezing for the first two days.

It was his call, he knows the soil in his area better than I do. I know up here it is mostly clay and loam, not a chance of pouring a slab once we get a hard freeze, at least not within the budgets I am used to dealing with.
Link Posted: 1/28/2014 4:58:26 PM EDT
I painted my shed on an "iffy" day.

Now I'm enjoying the sight of peeling paint



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