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Posted: 1/5/2005 10:09:12 PM EDT
I recently have seen something in surplus catalogs I never heard about before, A tomahawk being used by Army SF as a silent-kill weapon. Can't find any example of it's use, and former and current army SF troops I know have never heard of it either. Is this a fabricated story to sell Tomahawks at an elevated price. Can anyone make this make since or prove it's not bullshit???
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 10:12:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 11:24:54 AM EDT by TheRedHorseman]
ignore me I know nothing


Link Posted: 1/5/2005 10:12:35 PM EDT
Yep, designed by the late Peter Laguana (sp?). Issued (?) in the early 60s until word got out in the press that American soldiers were carrying tomahawks. I think Cold Steel and a few other companies are making quality copies now.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 3:56:37 AM EDT
word on the street (so don't quote me) is that some american units are being issued updated versions of the laguana tomahawks. I didn't have access to one of those so i carried a hibben throwing axe painted flat black with 550 cord wraped around the handle. i also saw more than a couple guys carrying those lightweight gerber hatchets.

depending on your unit and where u are stationed downrange you can sometimes get away with it. personally i plan on spending the 140$ and buying the updated tomahawk before i redeploy over there again next summer.

along the same lines the rangers do train with tomahawks, and ive herad that depending on your company/platoon leadership some units actually expect their rangers to carry one. (a ranger friend of mine told me this, so if its not true someone tell me and i'll kick him in the wedding tackle for lying to me)
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 4:19:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:
I recently have seen something in surplus catalogs I never heard about before, A tomahawk being used by Army SF as a silent-kill weapon. Can't find any example of it's use, and former and current army SF troops I know have never heard of it either. Is this a fabricated story to sell Tomahawks at an elevated price. Can anyone make this make since or prove it's not bullshit???



It is true they did use tomahawks its also true that they (sellers) tell everybody that to sell them at a elevated price! Is that clear enough?
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 4:25:21 AM EDT
I don't see how a tomahawk can be a silent=kill weapon. They make so much noise when they explode.

Link Posted: 1/6/2005 4:26:21 AM EDT
There I was, thinking, "WTH? I thought we didn't have Tomahawks until the '80s???"
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 4:42:07 AM EDT
They were some goofy army officer's idea to foster a more aggresive spirit in his troops. Just what they needed - a couple extra useless pounds to hump through the jungle. I never heard of anyone actually using one for any purpose at all.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 4:43:14 AM EDT
" The last time American soldiers carried tomahawks was during the Vietnam War. Four thousand so-called Vietnam Tomahawks were issued to Army Rangers and other special units. They mainly used them to set up camps, dig trenches and cut through the jungle. But soldiers couldn't bring them back when they returned home after the war. "The government thought it would be too barbaric or brutal to show the tomahawks," says Justin Gingrich, a military-to-civilian liaison for the Ranger Training Brigade at Fort Benning, Ga., who retired earlier this month to join the American Tomahawk Co. in Midland, N.J. "
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 5:06:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2005 5:08:57 AM EDT by glockguy40]
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 5:07:37 AM EDT
Chuck S, a Nam vet has a tomahawk as his avatar...
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 5:11:48 AM EDT
American Tomahawk Next Generation Ranger



American Tomahawk Tactical Grade


Link Posted: 1/6/2005 5:25:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By POWER03:
I don't see how a tomahawk can be a silent=kill weapon. They make so much noise when they explode.







Makes me think of Mel Gibson cutting the British soldiers to pieces in the Patriot.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 6:29:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GlockLuvinRedleg:
...if its not true someone tell me and i'll kick him in the wedding tackle for lying to me)



Link Posted: 1/6/2005 7:22:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rodent:
They were some goofy army officer's idea to foster a more aggresive spirit in his troops. Just what they needed - a couple extra useless pounds to hump through the jungle. I never heard of anyone actually using one for any purpose at all.




Yeah right, have you tried cutting trees with a E-tool?

What happened is some commander discovered that his men did more chopping brush than digging and ditched USLESS couple pounds (USGI entrenching tool) for a USEFUL couple (tomahawk),

in spite of the fancy name, it is just a hatchet after all, then again even in the 18th century they cut more wood than flesh.

Since we have a few documented accounts of US troops killing their enemies by bludgoning them with their E-tools, some Vietnamese probably died from tomahawks as well. I doubt they were the "silent kill" weapon of choice, even the knife is only a "silent kill" weapon because your other hand is over the other fellows mouth! Otherwise its no different, and a lot more dangerous, than using a silenced firearm- unless your aim is absolutely good on the head or neck they are still gonna scream.

I don't know about selling tomahawks in Iraq, but Cold Steel sold some of their larger Battle Axe's, since that type, with a handle big enough for both hands but still with a "bearded" blade like the tomahawk, is good for chopping down doors.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 8:02:42 AM EDT
there somthing i have always wanted to add to my kit. i just never have. i think the would be very usefull. since im not skilled with one part of me thinks it would just be extra weight.
Ronald
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 8:07:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rmdye:
there somthing i have always wanted to add to my kit. i just never have. i think the would be very usefull. since im not skilled with one part of me thinks it would just be extra weight.
Ronald



I have one of the ATC tomahawks. Get skilled with it. It can be a very useful weapon first, tool second

It is very light, too.

Link Posted: 1/6/2005 8:09:42 AM EDT
I use a tomahawk when I canoe camp. It is a little lighter over the portage than a hatchet. Unfortunately, it cuts firewood less effectively than a hatchet. For the amount of wood I cut while canoeing the tradeoff is acceptable.

Kent
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:49:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2005 11:58:18 AM EDT by faris]
Tomahawks WERE actually used in Vietnam as weapons by some Special Ops people, including Special Forces, Rangers, and especially Marine Recon.
It's particularly within Marine Recon were the tomahawk seems to have been a favored weapon, and apparently, still is.

They were indeed used as anti-personnel weapons, and they were indeed VERY effective.

During the war an Army Captain recommended replacing the bayonet with a tomahawk and gave a demonstration of the capabilities of it to a group of senior officers.

This Captain was absolutely deadly with the weapon, and showed just how effective it could be as a sentry-removal tool, hand-to-hand combat weapon, AND as an effective counter to a bayonet.
He recommended replacing the bayonet with the tomahawk because it was clearly more effective and flexible than a bayonet, and could be used both as a tool and weapon.

The officers were particularly astounded by the Captain's demonstration of the various ways the tomahawk could be used as silent-killing weapon.

They noted that in demonstrations of the tomahawk versus bayonets, knives, clubs, and unarmed hand-to-hand combat, the users of the other weapons stood no chance against the Captain and his tomahawk.
The general officers all agreed that the tomahawk was clearly superior, but discounted it because of the additional training needed to become proficient, and what they called the "Non-military" image of the weapon.

This Captain also gave demonstrations to Special Ops units, and they were taken both by the effectiveness and by the elite image.

From all accounts, the Special Ops people made excellent use of the tomahawk, but like the use of silencers and other "Special Equipment" most accounts only allude to the use of such non-standard weaponry.
Reading books by Vietnam vets of Special Ops units like SEALs and Special Forces, you'll note quickly passing references to "Special Equipment".
Most of this is still-classified equipment, but some of it is non-standard weaponry like cross-bows, garrotes, and tomahawks.

Apparently, the tomahawk is still being used by some Ranger and Marine Force Recon personnel, but again, due to Political Correctness, the use is being downplayed along with all the other "Special Equipment".

True, MOST of the tomahawks used in Vietnam were tools or used to hype the image of troops, but a number WERE highly effective weapons, and if you read and listen closely enough you'll note the references.

Like most elite forces, the REAL people don't talk about their activities and you won't be reading any first-hand accounts about slaughtering VC and NVA troops with tomahawks, OR garrotes and other non-PC weaponry.
Link Posted: 1/6/2005 11:59:35 AM EDT
It is entirly possible that troops used them in Vietnam, however I doubt it was very widespread. Seems that if it was there would be more pictures of them. Evidently, Soldiers and Marines like to have their pictures taken with all of their death-dealing equipment. I can't think of a single weapon that anyone in the Marine Corps has that hasn't had it's picture taken with a smiling Marine.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 11:24:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 11:24:39 AM EDT by Yojimbo]
Me like Tomahawks!

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