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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/26/2005 9:06:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 9:53:43 AM EDT by Fat_McNasty]
That is the question..

Background:
I'm in the process of building a .460 Wby Mag, it gets worked on in between customer projects. So it been a on going thing now for over a year. Finally I have got caught up a bit and can start getting down to business. I have decided to go with a classic Safari layout (Grade A walnut, checkering,1/4 rib with 3 flip up sights, band front sight on a modified P17 action).
My self and Stealth have been crunching the number on the recoil of this round. It looks to be DOUBLE that of a .375 H&H. I'm not a recoil wimp by any means, but man that is a bit much (have fired .375 numerous times).

Question:
Should I destroy the classic lines by installing a brake? Weatherby does it on all their new .460 cal safari rifles, but it just does not look right to me.

Also I also read that the PH's frown on braked rifles that clients bring with them ( if any of you guys have BTDT please chime in).
Yes I know I can go the mercury route too, which I will be going.

Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:17:39 AM EDT
Ever get to shoot one???? I have, you want a brake. I own a Ruger #1 in .375 and its recoil pales in comparison to the .460 I shot.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:19:33 AM EDT
I HATE brakes .... but on a 460 ... I highly recommend one! I would hunt with earplugs or electronic muffs though.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:22:24 AM EDT
Come on it's a 460 weatherby, you can't put a brake on it. Thank how many chuckles you will miss out on when you tell your buddies just before they fire it, it's a 30.06.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:24:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mtchristman:
Come on it's a 460 weatherby, you can't put a brake on it. Thank how many chuckles you will miss out on when you tell your buddies just before they fire it, it's a 30.06.



For some reason this brings images of those arab guys firing the .577 T-Rex.

LOL
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:26:04 AM EDT
no brake
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:39:29 AM EDT
Brake!?

what are you, a man.. or a mouse?

Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:45:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 9:46:52 AM EDT by Stealth]
Actually it's more like 2.5 times the recoil energy depending on load/rifle etc.

I found this as well for a quick comparison using standard loads:

223 - 3.2 ft*lbs recoil energy
30-06 - 20.3 ft*lbs recoil energy
300 WinM - 25.9 ft*lbs recoil energy
375 H&H - 36.1 ft*lbs recoil energy
416 Rigby - 58.1 ft*lbs recoil energy
460 Weath Mag - 99.6 ft*lbs recoil energy


I'd make it perfect (without a brake), shoot it once, put it in a glass case and hang it on the wall. Then I'd get a 375 H&H or 416 Rigby if I wanted to hunt.

edited to make little chart more readable.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:50:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stealth:

I'd make it perfect (without a brake), shoot it once, put it in a glass case and hang it on the wall. Then I'd get a 375 H&H or 416 Rigby if I wanted to hunt.

.



How does the for sale add go. For sale Weatherby .460, 19 rounds of ammo.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:50:58 AM EDT
I shot one with a brake, geat a big brake
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:54:45 AM EDT
Go with the brake and include the little thread protector gizmo so you can remove the brake in the field.

You are gonna want the brake on the range...and extensive hearing protection.


P.S. I have shot .460's with and without. If you intend to fire more than 2-3 round a month, you are gonna want a brake...
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:56:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:59:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:

Originally Posted By mtchristman:
Come on it's a 460 weatherby, you can't put a brake on it. Thank how many chuckles you will miss out on when you tell your buddies just before they fire it, it's a 30.06.



For some reason this brings images of those arab guys firing the .577 T-Rex.

LOL



Is THAT what it was?! That explains a lot

I'd use a brake.. The biggest, ugliest, most kick-eating brake you can find.

It's hard to collect a trophy when you've been blasted clear into the next county.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:59:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stealth:
Actually it's more like 2.5 times the recoil energy depending on load/rifle etc.

I found this as well for a quick comparison using standard loads:

223 - 3.2 ft*lbs recoil energy
30-06 - 20.3 ft*lbs recoil energy
300 WinM - 25.9 ft*lbs recoil energy
375 H&H - 36.1 ft*lbs recoil energy
416 Rigby - 58.1 ft*lbs recoil energy
460 Weath Mag - 99.6 ft*lbs recoil energy


I'd make it perfect (without a brake), shoot it once, put it in a glass case and hang it on the wall. Then I'd get a 375 H&H or 416 Rigby if I wanted to hunt.

edited to make little chart more readable.



Those numbers don't tell the whole truith... Some of these big Mags give you a slower push... the 460 Gives you one hell of a sharp and sudden snap.... I shot a 458 Lott once and that was enough for me yet I used a 300 Win Mag for deer for years.

But hey, shoot it once without the brake (please use video) and they you can always add the brake later...
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:30:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 10:32:34 AM EDT by Fat_McNasty]
This is the type that we use on all the brakes we do. Its claimed to reduce the recoil by 45% which I can vouch for.



But man that would look ugly in front of the banded sight.



Also thoses that have fired a .460. Was it scoped? And what power?
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:38:06 AM EDT
What about a Badger Ordinance brake? I'd hunt down a lower profile brake... but there were definatly be a God damned brake on that fucker.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:40:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Quarterbore:

Those numbers don't tell the whole truith... Some of these big Mags give you a slower push... the 460 Gives you one hell of a sharp and sudden snap.... I shot a 458 Lott once and that was enough for me yet I used a 300 Win Mag for deer for years.



I had to remove some of the info because it gummed up the little chart (the spaces all dissappeared!). Rifle and bullet weights and velocities are not listed. So the numbers are for a quick ballpark comparison.

I've noticed that many big bores, like the 460 use faster burning powders than I'd expect. It probably has something to do with the "kick vs push".
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:47:21 AM EDT
I built a 458WinMag on a P17 for a guy and he insisted no brake (it was scoped). He couldn't shoot 3 rounds offhand with it!


I would brake it but since you are using irons it would look really fugly..
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:47:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stealth:
375 H&H - 36.1 ft*lbs recoil energy
..
460 Weath Mag - 99.6 ft*lbs recoil energy


It has almost 3x the recoil of a 375H&H? You be crazy man. I'd rethink this little project.

You before-->
You after-->
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:50:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By green-grizzly:

Originally Posted By Stealth:
375 H&H - 36.1 ft*lbs recoil energy
..
460 Weath Mag - 99.6 ft*lbs recoil energy


It has almost 3x the recoil of a 375H&H? You be crazy man. I'd rethink this little project.

You before-->
You after-->



Funny, and I am building a 300 Whisper to go deer hunting with.... How is that for opposite ends of the big game spectrum?
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 10:55:00 AM EDT
Having shot one without a brake, I would suggest it. On the other hand, what bothered me the most was the blast impact it made on nearby objects, like buildings, awnings, etc, so maybe not. Some brakes seem to make that wors and the recoil was manageable for a couple of shots.....


Dan
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 11:07:24 AM EDT
Brake it. Man invented this technology for a reason. Unlike a lot of doo-dads people put on their rifles, this one serves a good purpose.

Link Posted: 8/26/2005 11:18:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 11:19:10 AM EDT by Fat_McNasty]
For those that are un aware of the recoil...

Mpeg of 460 being fired..

And another...
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 11:18:22 AM EDT
I've always tried to stay away from compensators and like to use weight (mostly in the form of barrel length) to deal with recoil.

I'd think that if you were to just double that barrel circumference and length - that recoil oughta come down to something akin to a .243.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 11:21:19 AM EDT
What about the VAIS?
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 11:25:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Quarterbore:
Funny, and I am building a 300 Whisper to go deer hunting with.... How is that for opposite ends of the big game spectrum?



What rate-of-twist are you going to use?

I use a 300 Whisper Contender barrel (1 in 8") for metallic silhouette ... I use the Sierra 220gr match bullets @ 1000fps (8.5gr N110).

it goes "pip" but the RAMS go down like a 44 mag hit them ....

They may only leave at 1000 fps, but they are still doing over 900fps when they get there.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 11:26:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
For those that are un aware of the recoil...

Mpeg of 460 being fired..

And another...



man they beat the hell out of the rifles
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 11:26:58 AM EDT


Link Posted: 8/26/2005 11:27:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 11:32:06 AM EDT by usma89]
What about the on/off break?
got this from 6mmbr.com :
www.cpmuzzlebrakes.com/



If you want the best of all worlds, get a can for the rifle.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 11:31:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By skid2964:

Originally Posted By Quarterbore:
Funny, and I am building a 300 Whisper to go deer hunting with.... How is that for opposite ends of the big game spectrum?



What rate-of-twist are you going to use?

I use a 300 Whisper Contender barrel (1 in 8") for metallic silhouette ... I use the Sierra 220gr match bullets @ 1000fps (8.5gr N110).

it goes "pip" but the RAMS go down like a 44 mag hit them ....

They may only leave at 1000 fps, but they are still doing over 900fps when they get there.



1:8 Twist 20-inch Barrel in LTR style on Rem 700 Action....

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=44&t=147625
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 11:32:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By usma89:
What about the on/off break?
got this from 6mmbr.com :
www.cpmuzzlebrakes.com/

If you want the best of all worlds, get a can for the rifle.



Can you imagine how big that can would need to be? That is a world of GAS comming out of that monster!
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 11:32:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
For those that are un aware of the recoil...

Mpeg of 460 being fired..

And another...



- Ragheads ROP's do not know how to shoot.

No brake.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 12:43:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 1:02:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 1:03:45 PM EDT by bubba99]

Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
This is the type that we use on all the brakes we do. Its claimed to reduce the recoil by 45% which I can vouch for.

www.hollandguns.com/brake2.jpg

But man that would look ugly in front of the banded sight.
www.brownprecision.com/../../images/full-banded-front-sight-315-700.jpg


Also thoses that have fired a .460. Was it scoped? And what power?




I shot a 20 inch custom with iron sights, no brake. It was made for close-up work with revenge seeking Cape Buff. One shot was enough to impress me. And I am not recoil brittle.

Also have shot a factory rifle with brake, with a Leica 1.25x5 power, if I recall correctly. It was a handful but I was not worried about injury.

I have shot a couple of hundred rounds of big bore rifle ammo. I consider .416 on up to be big bore. I have shot 470's, 505's, .600 nitro, and the weatherby is the most brutal, due to it's light weight. Most double rifles weigh more than 16 pounds.

I think the 505 Gibbs is actually the ultimate stopping cartridge when loaded with modern bullets. I have seen monolithic solids fired from a .460 turn inside of a Buff. I think there may be a tad too much velocity. The .458 Lott is probably the most practical cartridge for stopping. Plenty of power, ammo easy to find, reasonable recoil, all of which are why it was designed.

But nothing is quite like the .460.


Edit: Oops! how did I do that font?
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 2:17:49 PM EDT
Put a REAL BRAKE on that thing!

Link Posted: 8/26/2005 2:38:35 PM EDT
How well do those Mercury thingies work?
While I agree that the brake would possibly ruin the look, after seeing the video's I think that the brake is necessary. Otherwise it's the mercury insert, a decelerator pad and one of those strap-on shoulder pads.
Never shot one though. Biggest I've fired was a Marlin 1895 in 45/70 that I owned for a while.
405gn bullets and 55gns of Varget was enough for me

Mark
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 2:46:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By streetfighter:
How well do those Mercury thingies work?

Mark



They work pretty good. It doesnt remove any of the kick it just displaces it over a longer duration.

One thing about the removable brake/thread protector is the point of impact changes.. And the sights are calibrated to point of impact with one load. I am thinking of putting on a low power scope with Leupold Quick release bases on it though. If I can still see the open sights over the bases.

Then I'm going to get me a tacpoint and give her an abuse test. I settle the argument once and for all!
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 2:55:12 PM EDT
No brake.

It will hurt like heck with or without, might as well look good in the safe instead of ugly.

I think the 460 is overrated and few shoot it well. Brake or not, most are scared of the recoil. PH hate to see them.

My choice? The 416 Rigby has it all. History, modern looking case design, ballistics......

Link Posted: 8/26/2005 3:01:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
That is the question..

Background:
I'm in the process of building a .460 Wby Mag, it gets worked on in between customer projects. So it been a on going thing now for over a year. Finally I have got caught up a bit and can start getting down to business. I have decided to go with a classic Safari layout (Grade A walnut, checkering,1/4 rib with 3 flip up sights, band front sight on a modified P17 action).
My self and Stealth have been crunching the number on the recoil of this round. It looks to be DOUBLE that of a .375 H&H. I'm not a recoil wimp by any means, but man that is a bit much (have fired .375 numerous times).

Question:
Should I destroy the classic lines by installing a brake? Weatherby does it on all their new .460 cal safari rifles, but it just does not look right to me.

Also I also read that the PH's frown on braked rifles that clients bring with them ( if any of you guys have BTDT please chime in).
Yes I know I can go the mercury route too, which I will be going.




I recently shot my 50 BMG with the brake off, impressive kick but if you have a good recoil pad not painfull. Remember that if you shoot without hearing protection, usual for hunting, that brake is going to cause some real pain you won't forget.
I say try it with out then decide.

Rich V
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 3:28:30 PM EDT
Take it like a man.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 4:46:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:
No brake.

It will hurt like heck with or without, might as well look good in the safe instead of ugly.

I think the 460 is overrated and few shoot it well. Brake or not, most are scared of the recoil. PH hate to see them.

My choice? The 416 Rigby has it all. History, modern looking case design, ballistics......





+1.Every PH I have ever spoke with hated 460's with a passion. All said it seems to draw a certain personality that can't seem to be able to shoot worth a shit...

You have to be an accomplished rifleman to accurately shoot a .460.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 6:48:08 PM EDT
I have shot most of the Weatherby chamberings quite a bit, the 378(I really like the 378 Weatherby) the 416 Weatherby and the 460 Weatherby really need a brake. A little bit of these three go a long ways even with a good brake.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 6:57:18 PM EDT
When's it going to be done?

I need to make sure I have batteries for my camera.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 8:25:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stealth:
When's it going to be done?

I need to make sure I have batteries for my camera.



Maby by Chrismass. Its a project im working on between client jobs. That and im in no hurry.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 8:45:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
Take it like a man.




ANd then put a brake on it
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:26:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2005 9:33:58 PM EDT by GeorgeInNePa]

Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
That is the question..

Background:
I'm in the process of building a .460 Wby Mag, it gets worked on in between customer projects. So it been a on going thing now for over a year. Finally I have got caught up a bit and can start getting down to business. I have decided to go with a classic Safari layout (Grade A walnut, checkering,1/4 rib with 3 flip up sights, band front sight on a modified P17 action).
My self and Stealth have been crunching the number on the recoil of this round. It looks to be DOUBLE that of a .375 H&H. I'm not a recoil wimp by any means, but man that is a bit much (have fired .375 numerous times).

Question:
Should I destroy the classic lines by installing a brake? Weatherby does it on all their new .460 cal safari rifles, but it just does not look right to me.

Also I also read that the PH's frown on braked rifles that clients bring with them ( if any of you guys have BTDT please chime in).
Yes I know I can go the mercury route too, which I will be going.




Ah, large rifles, a favorite passion of mine.

First and foremost, what will the finished weight of the rifle be? If it's 9 or so pounds, then HELL yes, put a brake on it. If it's going to be 12.5 or so maybe not.

9 lb rifle, 500gr bullet, 126grs of powder, 2600fps= 123ft/lbs of recoil at 29fps

12.5lb rifle, 500gr bullet, 126grs of powder, 2600fps= 88ft/lbs of recoil at 21fps

My .416 Rigby weighs in at 10.5lbs, has no brake, shoots a 400 gr Hornady soft at 2500fps with 106 grs of powder. It generates 64ft/lbs at 19fps. You can shoot it all day long. If it weighed less, it would have a brake.

I have a .600 OverKill (13lbs) that shoots a .620', 900gr WW, at 2150 with 160grs of powder. Without the brake it would generate 156lbs of recoil at 27fps. What does that feel like? I couldn't tell you, I haven't worked up the testosterone to take off the brake.

I have shot it with 166grs of powder with the same bullet, the recoil would be 176ft/lbs at 29fps without the brake.

I figure the brake I have is at least a 30 to 35% reduction in felt recoil.

It's all in the weight of the rifle. Try it out before you put the banded sight on, you can always order a larger ID banded sight and thread the barrel for a brake.

OR

You could use a little less powder, still improve on .458 Lott ballistics and still have fun and have a shootable rifle to boot!

ETA:
A neat recoil calculator:
huntamerica.com/recoil_calculator/

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