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Posted: 8/10/2005 8:03:25 AM EDT
Poll incoming.

Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:03:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 8:05:04 AM EDT by catch223]
IBTP

I paid for about half, parents and scholarships the other half.

.gov didn't help at all. Seems they only help those who don't plan ahead for their kids college.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:04:26 AM EDT
I wonder how many people that are against welfare who have received college grants.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:04:41 AM EDT
I pay
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:04:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 8:05:47 AM EDT by Ajax72]
IBTP.



First ever.

Borrowed every damn dime, or worked for it. (except the G.I. Bill money that I earned)

PAYING FOR IT NOW.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:05:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
I wonder how many people that are against welfare who have received college grants.

Sgat1r5



how the hell is that the same ?
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:07:03 AM EDT
A couple small grants, but for the most part, loans. I actually took out way more in loans than I needed.
I knew I didn't need that much in loans, but I took what they offered, semed like free money at the time.
But, I'm regretting that now.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:08:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
I wonder how many people that are against welfare who have received college grants.

Sgat1r5



how the hell is that the same ?



+1

So applying for a private or federal grant to better educate yourself is the same as welfare? Please explain?
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:09:06 AM EDT
fam. paid. why?
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:09:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
I wonder how many people that are against welfare who have received college grants.

Sgat1r5



how the hell is that the same ?



In both situations you are taking money from one person and giving it to others that didn't work for it.

Except with welfare it sometimes gets paid back.

Grants don't

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:10:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EPOCH96:

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
I wonder how many people that are against welfare who have received college grants.

Sgat1r5



how the hell is that the same ?



+1

So applying for a private or federal grant to better educate yourself is the same as welfare? Please explain?



The only way I see it being similiar is to how the welfare system was originally intended.
As a helping hand to get yourself to a better position in life.

I mean I hate borrowing money from the .gov, but damn, college is expensive (and I go to a cheapie community college right now)
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:11:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
I wonder how many people that are against welfare who have received college grants.

Sgat1r5



how the hell is that the same ?



Someone doesn't have enough money, so the government gives it to them. Doesn't seem too hard to connect the two to me.

My parents lived a very frugal lifestyle (both worked hourly wage jobs) in order to save for their kids' college education. Their reward? They had too much money invested to qualify for gov't help. I guess they should've just pissed it away and let Uncle Sam (that's all of US) foot the bill.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:11:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Silver_Surfer:
fam. paid. why?



Honestly curious, never seen it broken down before among a large group.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:12:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
I wonder how many people that are against welfare who have received college grants.

Sgat1r5



how the hell is that the same ?



In both situations you are taking money from one person and giving it to others that didn't work for it.

Except with welfare it sometimes gets paid back.

Grants don't

Sgat1r5



I got some government grants for having good grades. That helped me pay for college.

I worked my ass off in college and make a good living now, for which the government takes about 30%. Without the college degree, I would be making half what I make now. The government is benefitting (through taxes) from my degree for the next 40 years. In my mind, those grants were nothing more than a loan that is paying huge dividends.

Most welfare people have no interest in achievement and live to suckle off the government teat.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:14:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
I wonder how many people that are against welfare who have received college grants.

Sgat1r5



how the hell is that the same ?



In both situations you are taking money from one person and giving it to others that didn't work for it.

Except with welfare it sometimes gets paid back.

Grants don't

Sgat1r5



But the idea is that by educating yourself, you'll become a more productive member of society, get a better job, and pay more taxes. It's a better investment, although its free money, you'll end up more than making up for it. Whereas, a large portion of the people on welfare will never pay any income tax at all and be a net drain on the system. After all we don't comlpain about people going to public school through high school, and its all tax funded.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:15:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
I wonder how many people that are against welfare who have received college grants.

Sgat1r5



how the hell is that the same ?



In both situations you are taking money from one person and giving it to others that didn't work for it.

Except with welfare it sometimes gets paid back.

Grants don't

Sgat1r5



Not all grants are thru the government. A great number of grants are thru private organizations. March of Dimes, Shriner's, etc.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:16:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hamel:
Most welfare people have no interest in achievement and live to suckle off the government teat.



But you suckled also. And not all people stay on welfare. My state has a two year limit actually IIRC, and it has helped many familys. Also many college students get free grants year after year and never leave.

It's welfare, just college welfare. ANd that 30% of taxes you are paying is for someone else in the future, how do you like your money being taking from you now?

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:18:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By xmetalhedx:
But the idea is that by educating yourself, you'll become a more productive member of society, get a better job, and pay more taxes. It's a better investment, although its free money, you'll end up more than making up for it.



Free money? You mean it just appeared out of no where? Or was this money taken from someone else?


Whereas, a large portion of the people on welfare will never pay any income tax at all and be a net drain on the system.


Then fix THAT problem,


After all we don't comlpain about people going to public school through high school, and its all tax funded.


Yes, but I payed that tax.


Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:19:43 AM EDT
Americans do not believe in investing in education. So unlike international students American students want to leave as soon as they can get a job. This means upon graduation.

Basically if you weight the costs of loans you already have and the crappy salary you would get with a TA or RA position its hard to stay in school. Also .gov spends to much on kids who simply do not have enough brains to succeed. So currently the graduate schools are being overtaken by international students.

When the effects of this take place America will find it does not have the top thinkers or industry leaders anymore. The CEO of intel had an excellent article about this in IEEE.

As th world economy moves toward service and information based business, we will find we have less and less to offer.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:20:02 AM EDT
WHAT ABOUT PRIVATE GRANTS???
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:22:54 AM EDT
Parents, financial aid, and some of my own money saved from summer work...

It'll be damn hard paying for a $40,000 tuition by myself
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:23:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 8:24:06 AM EDT by Justa_TXguy]
I have done the college thing twice. First time, when I was 18, I paid for it 100% out of pocket by working and paying tutition/books. I still lived at home and my parents didn't make me pay for room or board.

Second time was 10 years later, and I paid for it 100% out of pocket by working. As a matter of fact, I just paid off my final outstanding balance of $490 to the college this morning.

It was a hardship the first time and a hardship this time, but I did it without grants, student loans, or going on welfare. I did it by working instead of expecting people to give me shit my whole life.



Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:24:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EPOCH96:
WHAT ABOUT PRIVATE GRANTS???



aww come on man, I gave 5 choices.

you don't get to participate then.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:24:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EPOCH96:
WHAT ABOUT PRIVATE GRANTS???



I am not against grants public or private.

I am just pointing out the government college grants are a form of welfare.

Period.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:25:48 AM EDT
I went to college on an academic/sports scholarship. It pretty much paid my way but I also worked to cover my husband's expenses too. Because of my hard work we didn't have to borrow any money.

Patty
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:27:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By Hamel:
Most welfare people have no interest in achievement and live to suckle off the government teat.



But you suckled also. And not all people stay on welfare. My state has a two year limit actually IIRC, and it has helped many familys. Also many college students get free grants year after year and never leave.

Sgat1r5



No, there is a limit to how long you can recieve government grants or loans. I'm not sure exactly off the top of my head, but I went to school for 5 years, I started part time, and the semster I graduated was my last semester of eligibility for grants or loans. If you're getting private scholarships, you could theoretically go for free forever, but thats out of the realm of welfare.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:28:42 AM EDT
Student loans and me working every freakin weekend at the ol pizza shop
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:29:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By Hamel:
Most welfare people have no interest in achievement and live to suckle off the government teat.



But you suckled also. And not all people stay on welfare. My state has a two year limit actually IIRC, and it has helped many familys. Also many college students get free grants year after year and never leave.

It's welfare, just college welfare. ANd that 30% of taxes you are paying is for someone else in the future, how do you like your money being taking from you now?

Sgat1r5



Yes. I suckled, but now I’m the one producing the milk. You did too (public schooling). Most everyone did at one point.

And I have no problems paying my taxes when I know that it is used for my benefit and that of society. The taxes I pay today may help pay the med school tuition for the surgeon operating on me tomorrow.

You’re grouping deadbeats welfare recipients with kids who have a drive to better themselves but don’t have the means to do so on their own.

Under your logic, only rich kids deserve to go to college.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:29:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By EPOCH96:
WHAT ABOUT PRIVATE GRANTS???



I am not against grants public or private.

I am just pointing out the government college grants are a form of welfare.

Period.

Sgat1r5



Most grants are pretty small $200-$500 bucks. It's very difficult to get a full ride on grants. I only knew of one person my entire time in college and she was a quad (aka disabled)

And yes, eventually you will repay grants. You repay them when you graduate from college, make a higher yearly income than if you were just highschool educated, and your HIGHER INCOME IS TAXED...

The income taxes on a $60K a year college grad
vs.
the $30K a year GED who may have to have some type of government help further down the road

Your lousy 4K in grants will be easily paid back in over a career

EPOCH
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:30:12 AM EDT
Grandparents set up an account for me when I was born. Also parents, GI Bill and my savings.

Coincidentally, today I will send the 7th of 8 semester payments for my 2 children. One more to go and the Financial Black Hole will close! We started investment accounts (private- not state run) when they were born. We just shake our heads when acquaintences say (kid is a senior in high school), "I just don't know how we will afford to send little Roscoe to university." Duh, at this point you can't, absent debt.
Both our children worked part time in high school and college. They learned what it takes to earn a buck and often remark to us how naive their friends who've never worked are. Sort of look down on the Daddy's Princesses who have had everything handed to them. Oldest used a bank job as an entry to a good job in industrial purchasing. Youngest is in health management and will take care of all us Baby Boom Coots when we poop out.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:31:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By xmetalhedx:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By Hamel:
Most welfare people have no interest in achievement and live to suckle off the government teat.



But you suckled also. And not all people stay on welfare. My state has a two year limit actually IIRC, and it has helped many familys. Also many college students get free grants year after year and never leave.

Sgat1r5



No, there is a limit to how long you can recieve government grants or loans. I'm not sure exactly off the top of my head, but I went to school for 5 years, I started part time, and the semster I graduated was my last semester of eligibility for grants or loans. If you're getting private scholarships, you could theoretically go for free forever, but thats out of the realm of welfare.



My grants were limited to undegrad courses. Once I hit graduate school, I was on my own.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:35:03 AM EDT
The company I worked for paid all.

RIT

(after I finished a 4 year apprenticeship and trade school)
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:35:13 AM EDT
Im using academic scholarships and academic shool awards for tuition and books. The college fund my parents had saved for me is going towards essentials like food and rent.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:38:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hamel:
You’re grouping deadbeats welfare recipients with kids who have a drive to better themselves but don’t have the means to do so on their own.

Under your logic, only rich kids deserve to go to college.



No, my logic is that if you take from one person and give to another then it is welfare.

I already paid for public schools thru my taxes. That is how that works.

And plenty of people go to college without grants.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:42:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By Hamel:
You’re grouping deadbeats welfare recipients with kids who have a drive to better themselves but don’t have the means to do so on their own.

Under your logic, only rich kids deserve to go to college.



No, my logic is that if you take from one person and give to another then it is welfare.

I already paid for public schools thru my taxes. That is how that works.

And plenty of people go to college without grants.

Sgat1r5



So when their higher income is taxed to pay for your Medicare when your old, they can bitch about it right????
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:45:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By Hamel:
You’re grouping deadbeats welfare recipients with kids who have a drive to better themselves but don’t have the means to do so on their own.

Under your logic, only rich kids deserve to go to college.



No, my logic is that if you take from one person and give to another then it is welfare.

I already paid for public schools thru my taxes. That is how that works.

And plenty of people go to college without grants.

Sgat1r5



You didn't pay for your schooling, your parents did along with other taxpayers. Now with the benefit of that education, you were able to get a job and pay taxes. So you did receive welfare.

And more kids are able to go to college with grants and contribute to society than without. Now they are paying for your kids schooling.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:46:27 AM EDT

Worked myself to pay full costs of 10 years of undergrad+graduate school. That's why it took 10 years. Worked every summer and PT in the school year.

Never took welfare or loan - never even applied.


Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:46:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By Hamel:
Most welfare people have no interest in achievement and live to suckle off the government teat.



But you suckled also. And not all people stay on welfare. My state has a two year limit actually IIRC, and it has helped many familys. Also many college students get free grants year after year and never leave.



I don't know how grants work in your state, but here in ohio there is a limit on the number of grants you can get. I think you can get 5 years worth and then your done.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:46:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 8:48:53 AM EDT by JaviFL]
GI Bill, grants and a lot of student loans. I voted for student loans because that is how the bulk of my college expenses were paid.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:47:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By catch223:

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
I wonder how many people that are against welfare who have received college grants.

Sgat1r5



how the hell is that the same ?



Someone doesn't have enough money, so the government gives it to them. Doesn't seem too hard to connect the two to me.

My parents lived a very frugal lifestyle (both worked hourly wage jobs) in order to save for their kids' college education. Their reward? They had too much money invested to qualify for gov't help. I guess they should've just pissed it away and let Uncle Sam (that's all of US) foot the bill.



Someone like you could have moved out of your parents house and lived on your own and applied for your own grants.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:51:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 8:55:06 AM EDT by jthuang]
My parents kicked in for most of it. And it wasn't cheap.

$20k tuition per year
$1k books
$7k dorm housing (10 months)
$? meal plan
$? spending money

I'd call it $30k per year for four years and change. That's around $120k total.

I took out $34k in Stafford loans (that was the max allowable) for the two years my sister was also in school. Couldn't qualify for the other two years.

So my parents put in around $86k. For which I am very grateful. My parents really kicked in for me and my sister. She went to school around the same time, and at a school that cost just as much (if not more). All told, they probably dropped around $172k in six years.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:53:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 8:55:29 AM EDT by The_Macallan]

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
I wonder how many people that are against welfare who have received college grants.

how the hell is that the same ?

In both situations you are taking money from one person and giving it to others that didn't work for it.


Yep.

The Gov't taking money at gunpoint from the haves to give to the have-nots.

That's welfare.

That's socialism.

The reason doesn't matter, nor does the contorted rationalization that a better-educated worker will get a better job and will get paid more and so will pay more taxes and so will give it back to the government.

Gov't grants and scholarships and even gov't-loans are pure welfare.


Now say thank-you to us producers who were working to pay for YOUR tuition at the same time we were paying for our own tuition.

Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:55:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EPOCH96:
So when their higher income is taxed to pay for your Medicare when your old, they can bitch about it right????



I am not the one bitching here!

I am just pointing out that grants from the .gov is welfare!

So is medical and social security!

If you can't see that then you don't WANT to see it because you are BENEFITING from it this time.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:55:52 AM EDT
Full tuition scholarship.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:56:31 AM EDT
The first two years I got by on loans (now paid off, thank God). The last two years I was on an ROTC scholarship.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:56:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bookertbab:
I don't know how grants work in your state, but here in ohio there is a limit on the number of grants you can get. I think you can get 5 years worth and then your done.



I don't know but I am sure there is a limit also

SGat1r5
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:58:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

No, my logic is that if you take from one person and give to another then it is welfare.


Sgat1r5



So who 's money is being taken to pay out college grants and by whom? I really don't know.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:58:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 8:59:00 AM EDT by H46Driver]
Government teater here. They (you) paid every cent except for an initial $1000 expense. For your kind donation to my Bachelor's Degree (in Mathematics) you got 5 years of service, including 2 6 month deployments to sunnier and warmer regions of the world.

Of course, as aresult of your generous contributions, you are still getting service after 16 years including an additional 7 month deployment to a warm and sunny place and 2 years of service in a land where every word ends with a vowel. A pretty good return on your $$ all said and done, but regardless, thank you - at least those of you who were paying taxes from 1985-1989.
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 8:59:23 AM EDT
My college was thankfully paid for by beef.

My grandparents sold a cow for me each semester
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 9:01:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2005 9:02:26 AM EDT by EPOCH96]

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By EPOCH96:
So when their higher income is taxed to pay for your Medicare when your old, they can bitch about it right????



I am not the one bitching here!

I am just pointing out that grants from the .gov is welfare!

So is medical and social security!

If you can't see that then you don't WANT to see it because you are BENEFITING from it this time.

Sgat1r5





You pay it back and them some! Yeesshhh do the freak'n math! Tax a 60K college grad versus the 30K highschool grad for the span of his entire life.

EPOCH

ETA: and I only recieved private grants, but obviously those organizations thought it would be wise to invest in me...
Link Posted: 8/10/2005 9:05:39 AM EDT
scholarship, then a small loan, then worked as a co-op student
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