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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 11/7/2001 5:25:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2001 5:32:48 PM EDT by lordtrader]
OK having lived in CA all my life I have seen car chases almost 1x a week. It is a frequent occurance there cause everyone think they can out run the cops helicopters there. Having said that, I was wondering something: During the chase, the DPD Swat were called in. And at the stop, they were the ones that took down the perp. All 12 of em. with MP5's and tac gear. Now compare this to: A guy in San Diego with a stolen tank. The CA Highway Patrol along with S.D.P.D. took the guy out. No SWAT Team. I don't think it ever entered their mind. Here's my question. Having Dallas P.D. SWAT in a car chase is a bit of an overkill isn't it? I feel that it was a waste of resources. Or is that a proper response? Your thoughts please. Here's the story for those that missed it www.cnn.com/2001/US/11/07/truck.chase/index.html
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 5:30:46 PM EDT
It all depends on WHY they were chasing him.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 5:34:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG: It all depends on WHY they were chasing him.
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He stole the semi and ran from the cops. No firearms involved that I know of. I have seen police chases before where the guy was shooting at the cops and no SWAT were called in. The most drastic I've seen done is the ole bump deal to make him spin out.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 5:36:45 PM EDT
LT (can I call you LT?). I will dignify your statement with a response when you start posting without posting again. BTW, wouldn't you, given the opportunity, LOVE to have the opportunity to engage such a P?!(K with an MP5? Maybe the SWAT team was called in because they said PLEASE?!?!?!?!?!?!?! [50][rolleyes][shotgun][sniper]
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 5:37:02 PM EDT
I think anything that keeps the SWAT team from doing something that most people would consider "productive" is what they need to be out doing. Hell, I think we should have the SWAT out pulling traffic duty, and school cross guard! That would keep them from going out shooting innocent people and themselves. And I think the guy in California stole a tank, not a Bradley. Michael Not a believer in SWAT teams
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 5:41:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2001 5:35:12 PM EDT by lordtrader]
Originally Posted By Ponyboy: And I think the guy in California stole a tank, not a Bradley. Michael
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Bradley....Abrams.... flucking amelican names all same, same, [;D]
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 5:48:01 PM EDT
teehee, it wasn't an Abrams either.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 5:53:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CrazyColt: teehee, it wasn't an Abrams either.
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OK I give up. It was a tank that for sure. What do you expect, I was in the Navy.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 5:57:54 PM EDT
I believe the tank was a M60.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 6:11:13 PM EDT
It was an M-60A5 and the goofball served as a crew member (loader I think) during the 80's.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 6:35:24 PM EDT
They should have fragged his ass. [grenade]
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 6:40:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 6:46:04 PM EDT
Hmm, maybe to justify their existance. If they weren't called up for small matters like this, they would be doing nothing at all.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 6:59:14 PM EDT
The suspect was wanted for robbery and stole the truck to facilitate his escape. He ran a road block, almost hitting officers. He drove on the wrong side of the road. SWAT was an appropriate response. If DPD needed to stop that truck because he started to directly threaten motorists, do you think the Patrol guys could have done it with shotguns and 9mm pistols? I question why the truck had any tires left, though. Haven't they heard of spike strips?
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 7:20:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2001 7:16:03 PM EDT by lordtrader]
Originally Posted By natez: The suspect was wanted for robbery and stole the truck to facilitate his escape. He ran a road block, almost hitting officers. He drove on the wrong side of the road. SWAT was an appropriate response. If DPD needed to stop that truck because he started to directly threaten motorists, do you think the Patrol guys could have done it with shotguns and 9mm pistols? I question why the truck had any tires left, though. Haven't they heard of spike strips?
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So what happened with the guy in San Diego in the tank. He destroyed property, both private and public. Lethal force was authorized, but no SWAT. There was another in FL(I could be wrong on the state, again) Where two men rob the bank and shot at the cops during the get away. No SWAT. There was also another chase in CA with a semi from San Diego and lasted till he got to Pomona about 80miles north. No shots fired. The cops laid way back so he would drop his speed and not cause damage. They let the choppers handle the chase. DPD SWAT also shot at the semi in crowded streets(per FoxNews). Seem to me they were putting the public at risk by doing so. NO firearms were found from the driver. In viewing the video it looks like the cops were right on his ass. Probably why he was driving the way he was. If they just laid back a bit and let the choppers follow him around I don't think he would've cause the damage he did. It just seem an overkill for me. BTW just saw an interview with the local Fox News with 3 LE agencies here in the DFW area and the spokesperson in each department said they would not have handled it the same way.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 7:33:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 7:36:16 PM EDT
I'm no expert by any means, but I do think calling in the SWAT team was warranted given the fact that they were told to take him out with any means necessary. But I do have to admit that in my eyes they could have handled it differently. Maybe setting up an ambush or something on the route he was taking. Even better yet setting up a sniper to take him out in a spot where the general public would not be hurt and the truck could be safely stopped, whether that be on a chopper, car, or roadblock. Again just my .02. Lethal[heavy] "Hope for the best, Prepare for the worst"
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 7:46:01 PM EDT
LT, they've had some of the radio traffic from the tank chase on World's Wildest Police Videos, they were asking about SWAT, more to see if they had any AT weapons. So I think SWAT was being considered. Tough to get SWAT to a "moving" incident tho'. They had 50 or so officer involved so SWAT wouldn't have really been anymore "firepower". The idea behind SWAT a lot of times is to put officers on the scene with effective medium range weapons and make it clear to the suspect that there is NO chance that they will be able to get away. They also do things like set up CCTV cameras and observation post that are out of the effective range of the suspect. So the suspects know that he doesn't have targets he can hit, but he is being watched. No targets means no shooting, most of the time. No way to effectivley escape usually means that the person surrenders, w/o a shoot out, foot chase, physical fight etc.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 10:20:34 PM EDT
Oh I thought you all were gonna talk about something else, like the three news helicoptor pilots finding Federal Agents waiting for them when they landed their planes- because they violated DFW's no fly zone while following the chase and ignored orders from the tower and the police helicopters to land.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 10:47:05 PM EDT
Oh.. Hmmm... We have US fighter jets ready to shoot down a civilian plane full of US citizens if one gets hijacked and endangers anyone on the ground. A stolen truck carrying a load of wood that is ON FIRE flees from the police, endangering many civilians, school children in school buses, etc.. and it's not appropriate to terminate the chase with force? I'd LOVE to see some of the Essex County, NJ carjackers and car thieves try their antics in a Southern State ! The People's Republic of NJ has a ridiculous pursuit policy. Almost NO ONE is pursued, regardless of the crime committed or the danger posed to the public. This prompts the "misguided youth of the housing projects" to simply run from the police on a regular basis ! IMHO: If you have a "Chase to the Death" policy in place, very few people would flee. Well. at least the TX case WAS interesting to watch on TV. [:P] Good thing we have Fox News !
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 11:00:55 PM EDT
Well, in the Great San Diego Tank Caper, they *did* try to call in SWAT -- and SWAT told the regular cops that they didn't have anything that could take on a tank. .308 just doesn't cut it against armor. The cops started to call in the military, but the psycho driving the tank got it stuck on a concrete lane divider on the highway (sheer stupidity on his part -- good thing), and the officers who'd been chasing it managed to get on top of the tank, open a hatch, and shoot him. In today's environment, the feds would have just called in an A-10 strike. . . .
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 11:08:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 71-Hour_Achmed: Well, in the Great San Diego Tank Caper, they *did* try to call in SWAT -- and SWAT told the regular cops that they didn't have anything that could take on a tank. .308 just doesn't cut it against armor. The cops started to call in the military, but the psycho driving the tank got it stuck on a concrete lane divider on the highway (sheer stupidity on his part -- good thing), and the officers who'd been chasing it managed to get on top of the tank, open a hatch, and shoot him. In today's environment, the feds would have just called in an A-10 strike. . . .
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For some reason I wanted to say that the cops tried to get help from the military in this incident cause they knew they had nothing that could stop it but the military or national guard or whomever would not help. But I might be wrong about that.
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 3:27:06 AM EDT
Dallas Police Dept. looked woefully incapable and unprepared yesterday. DPD had a "Code 100" issued which means stop at any cost and the guy basically endangered the community for TWO HOURS at his discretion. After narrowly missing a loaded school bus (part of the load struck the bus injuring a little girl) the driver continued for another half hour until he stopped of his own accord and simply got out and lay down on the pavement. If he hadn't surrendered he might STILL be driving. DPD showed a remarkable lack of tactics, training, equipment and skill. My major concern was the event was staged as diversion for something else.
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 8:56:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 9:06:50 AM EDT
i say do whatever is necessary to stop the crime. .50 bmg right through the engine comes to mind. would have stopped the truck in a jif.
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 10:20:18 AM EDT
Did you notice the officer running after the truck after it made the last left turn???? Shotgun to shoulder, he was "Duck Running" (not duck walking) up to the cab to try to have a stable shooting platform before capping the driver. Funny, but obviously effective. lol.
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 10:47:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 5:37:43 PM EDT
Semi's running amok? Tanks rampaging through your streets? This looks like a job for... ta TA [b]TA[/b] the [size=6][blue]THE TANK POLICE[/blue][/size=6] [left][img]http://medlem.tripodnet.nu/Brenten/pictures/VAP-domc3.jpg[/img][/left] [right][img]http://medlem.tripodnet.nu/Brenten/pictures/VAP-bonapart.jpg[/img][/right] [left][img]http://medlem.tripodnet.nu/Brenten/pictures/VAP-scan9.gif[/img][/left] [right][img]http://medlem.tripodnet.nu/Brenten/pictures/VAP-scan12.jpg[/img][/right] he he he [:D]
Link Posted: 11/8/2001 6:16:44 PM EDT
I mean all that's necessary is shooting out the radiator. In an older diesel truck it would take about 10 minutes to overheat and sieze. Any newer diesel truck will automatically shut off the fuel pump after about two gallons of coolant is lost. The radiator is about 4 feet by 5 feet. Either way the truck stops in maybe 10 minutes NOT TWO HOURS! I don't think the cops had a CLUE how to stop the truck. Stupid and sad.
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