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Posted: 12/21/2003 1:41:19 PM EDT
I just had a thought. I was thinking of different systems used to cycle rifles, such as the gas piston on the AK-47 and G-3, the gas return tube system of the AR, the mix of systems on the M-1 and the M-14....

And then it hit me. Why can't full-scale rifles operate off a straight blowback system like the Ruger 10/22? There is nothing to blow back into the reciever, no gas piston to clean - everything goes down the barrel. There are no locking lugs on the 10/22 as far as I know, so why can't the same pronciple be applied to rifles of larger caliber? This would not only eliminate problems in rifles, but in carbines as well - the gas pressures will always be the same.

And another idea hit me - why not have an AR with two large locking lugs rather than one? I'm sure it would be less prone to shearing off, machining the recesses ( or anything else in that area of the rifle ) in the barrel would be easier, and cleaning them would be easier too. I'm also sure that accuracy would not be harmed, and it would create more space for a chunky extractor and spring.

Would not this type of system be extremely reliable, simple to manufacture, and shooter friendly ( after all, this system combined with the in-line construction would bring recoil down to nil )?

Link Posted: 12/21/2003 1:56:47 PM EDT
wouldn't full power rifle rounds blow too much crap back into the chamber? .22's seem to be pretty clean and a 10/22 will get pretty dirty after 500rds.
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 1:57:37 PM EDT
The AR has a lot more than one locking lug.  More like 6 or something (yeah, I can't remember and I'm not going to walk upstairs to check [:)]).

Also, a straight blowback system would explode in your face with a .223 round.  The only system I know of that uses a locking system but uses recoil to operate the action is the HK roller locking mechanism... it seems to work pretty good.
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 1:58:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2003 1:59:41 PM EDT by TopCrest]
Yeah, no problems with a blow back 223 AR.  Well, except the 27 pound bolt necessary to keep the gun from KBing into your head.

As for the 2 [s]recoil[/s] locking lug idea, the bolt would have to rotate more to disengage.  i dont know what that would do to operation or recoil, but it may be an interesting thing to pursue.

as for it being cheaper to mfg'r, any change to the current AR design would only be more expensive as you just created a non standard part.  not that its a bad thing.
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 2:13:16 PM EDT
Most ARs have got 8 locking lugs.

Hmmm... That's the one thing that has been nagging me - when it fires, there is nothing to delay the casing from coming straight back and leaking gasses from the chambers. A ehavy bolt could solve it, but I'm not about to conjour up some way to stuff a 15lb. steel cylinder into an 8lb. rifle.

Wait - the G-3 uses that roller locking system, but the balls lock into reciever-located recesses. What if one were to relocate those recesses into the barrel, so that you can keep the advantage of an aluminum reciever? How strong would the springs to the ball-locks have to be? I'm just trying to come up with something more reliable than the gas-return system, yet retains the attribute of the non-necessity to clean it - at the same time, I'm trying to find something to retain the reliability of a gas piston, without all the gunk building up inside of it.

Let's go back to the locking lug system. Two lugs would have to rotate 90 degrees - 3 would only have to rotate 60 at most, but would still retain space needed for a bulkier extractor. Are there any automatic rifles with a two or three lug system?

And now I have another idea - one flaw in the AR system ( which has comparitively few to other designs ), is that if the bolt carrier were to jam in the rearwards position, you will not be able to open the rifle up. Has anyone thought of a solution to this, or do I have to do it?[:D]
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 2:16:56 PM EDT
A blowback system on a heavier cartridge would open prematurely, venting still increasing pressure and blowing the case, the bolt and [i]your face[/i] to shit.
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 2:23:00 PM EDT
Which is one reason I abandoned the concept, oh, about 10min. ago. [:D]

Link Posted: 12/21/2003 2:32:16 PM EDT
The only ways to do pure recoil operated on high power is either to use an interlocked barrel/bolt system, where the whole assembly recoils back together (think of the semi-auto Franchi shotguns), or through some sort of roller-locking system ala the H&G G3 or CETME.
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