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Posted: 9/25/2004 8:02:08 PM EST
Norway - beautiful, expensive, cold

A new study by international survey bureau KRC Research has found that visitors to Norway are struck by the country's natural beauty, high prices and aloof inhabitants, newspaper Dagbladet reports. The study was commissioned by the firm marking Norway's centennial celebrations in 2005.

The study is based on interviews with 4,000 people over the age of 18 from eight European countries.

The strongest impression Norway leaves is one of natural grandeur, mountains and fjords. Very few are impressed with or even notice Norway's humanitarian or peace brokering efforts, which are such a source of domestic pride.

Neighbors Sweden and Denmark were particularly annoyed with the prices in Norway and Germans and the French found Norwegians a cold and aloof people. German and French respondents were also the most critical to Norway's whaling.

Ranking a list of Norway's positive sides resulted in "a nation rich in resources, such as coastal, fish and marine resources", followed by "a nation with a very well educated population", "a nation with friendly and open people", "a nation with a liberal and socially relaxed culture" and "a nation dominated by egalitarian and democratic values" as the top five choices.

One finding that will not surprise Norwegians is that many Danes thought Norway's soccer was the worst thing about the country.

The survey interviewed subjects from Britain, France, Germany, Poland, Italy, Spain, Denmark and Sweden.

www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article875043.ece

Link Posted: 9/25/2004 8:17:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 7:55:42 AM EST by raven]
A girl I used to date travelled around Europe until she found the city/country she liked most: Oslo, Norway. Then came back to the states, used her big brains to show grad school interest in Scandinavian Studies (I know) solely so she could study in Oslo. The plan then was to find a man, and become a Norwegien.

I know she made it to grad school in Oslo, dont know how the rest of her plan went.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 8:22:41 PM EST
Norway has an immigrant labor VISA similar to our H-1B, but much smaller allowing only 5,000 a year. They can never fill the quota because no one wants to live there. Perhaps it's because they mostly want fishermen.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 8:26:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By mattja:

... the French found Norwegians a cold and aloof people.



Really? The French found someone else more aloof than themselves? Those bastards!
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 8:26:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By mattja:
Norway has an immigrant labor VISA similar to our H-1B, but much smaller allowing only 5,000 a year. They can never fill the quota because no one wants to live there. Perhaps it's because they mostly want fishermen.




5000???


Damnit... Why don't we do 50K limit?

Oh.... for every illegal we boot, we'll let someone flow through the system, over the quota. No worse off than we were before and the person deserves it more

- BG
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 8:56:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By mattja:
Norway has an immigrant labor VISA similar to our H-1B, but much smaller allowing only 5,000 a year. They can never fill the quota because no one wants to live there. Perhaps it's because they mostly want fishermen.




5000???


Damnit... Why don't we do 50K limit?

Oh.... for every illegal we boot, we'll let someone flow through the system, over the quota. No worse off than we were before and the person deserves it more

- BG



We've been doing 200,000 H-1Bs each year for the last 3 years, right in the middle of massive tech downsizing. It's friggin' nuts. I think it's back to 64,000/year now.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 9:08:18 PM EST
Damn I wanna hunt whale! Can you imagine the cost of getting it mounted though?
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 10:47:41 PM EST


We've been doing 200,000 H-1Bs each year for the last 3 years, right in the middle of massive tech downsizing. It's friggin' nuts. I think it's back to 64,000/year now.



There is a a side of that coin that is easy to neglect. Those H-1B immigrants are often the best that the world has to offer. The reasons that the USA is great, are plentiful. One of those reasons is that we are the great brain-drain of the world. Drawing from the pool of the worlds top 5% helps make this a country full of competent people - people who produce, make the economy, and ultimately make good jobs and cheap cost of living for the rest of us here too.

I find myself more than a little concerned that our active boarder closing policies of late will, in the end, cause us more harm than good.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 11:25:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By lazyengineer:
I find myself more than a little concerned that our active boarder closing policies of late will, in the end, cause us more harm than good.


Link Posted: 9/25/2004 11:58:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By lazyengineer:


We've been doing 200,000 H-1Bs each year for the last 3 years, right in the middle of massive tech downsizing. It's friggin' nuts. I think it's back to 64,000/year now.



There is a a side of that coin that is easy to neglect. Those H-1B immigrants are often the best that the world has to offer. The reasons that the USA is great, are plentiful. One of those reasons is that we are the great brain-drain of the world. Drawing from the pool of the worlds top 5% helps make this a country full of competent people - people who produce, make the economy, and ultimately make good jobs and cheap cost of living for the rest of us here too.



More often than not, and I know because I was told to hire quite a few myself, they are not nearly as competent as US workers. My experience is the only reason they are hired is because they are cheaper than the locals. In fact, the old trick is to post a job opening requiring very high standards (BS or MS required) with very specific experience requirements, and then when no one applies, say, "See, we cannot find anyone." That is their excuse to hit the H-1B bodyshops and hire Indians at 2/3 the pay who in most cases are less qualified than the locals (less experience, AA degree as opposed to BS or MS). As far as quality of work, for every great engineer there are 50 morons with dubious credentials. Millions of dollars were lost in the late 90's due to the incompetence of these imported programmers.



I find myself more than a little concerned that our active boarder closing policies of late will, in the end, cause us more harm than good.



That's ludicrous. Unless you own a lettuce farm, auto repair shop, or other business that requires cheap, unskilled workers than you have nothing to worry about.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 12:47:39 AM EST
Cold and aloof....my kind of folks....too bad they don't live in a desert...I'd probably be on my way.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 1:30:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 1:32:47 AM EST by vito113]

Originally Posted By mattja:
Norway - beautiful, expensive, cold

the French found Norwegians a cold and aloof people.




Not surprising the Norwegians are aloof to the French, they sided with the Germans who are actively resented in Norway. However they do love us Brits… something to do with us fighting for them and stuff.

Friend of mine went on a trip to Norway some years ago. He was waiting to be served in a shop behind some Germans. The owner heard him speaking English and started to serve him instead of the Germans. When the Germans complained they were here first he turned on them and said "you were not welcome in 1940, and you're not welcome now!". Methinks the Norwegians bear grudges.

Andy
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 2:41:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 2:49:49 AM EST by Clay-More]
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 3:22:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 3:24:06 AM EST by RAMBOSKY]
"Germans and the French found Norwegians a cold and aloof people."

Now that's funny.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 3:28:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By mattja:
Norway - beautiful, expensive, cold

the French found Norwegians a cold and aloof people.




Not surprising the Norwegians are aloof to the French, they sided with the Germans who are actively resented in Norway. However they do love us Brits… something to do with us fighting for them and stuff.

Friend of mine went on a trip to Norway some years ago. He was waiting to be served in a shop behind some Germans. The owner heard him speaking English and started to serve him instead of the Germans. When the Germans complained they were here first he turned on them and said "you were not welcome in 1940, and you're not welcome now!". Methinks the Norwegians bear grudges.

Andy



This is an awesome story! Good for the Norweigens! And the women are gorgeous. My only exposure to them is at Epcot, but they are cuuuuuuute.

Fuck the French and the horse that rode them. (I just like saying it)
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:20:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By BayEagle:

Originally Posted By vito113:
Originally Posted By mattja:




Fuck the French and the horse that rode them. (I just like saying it)



I think you meant the 'horse they rode in on'

However the idea of a horse 'riding' a Frenchman is a concept I could find highly amusing…

Andy
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:29:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 6:31:12 AM EST by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By Clay-More:
I spent a vacation traveling across Denmark and Norway years ago, although the trip was cut short due to a car accident in week 3. That perception of the Germans is true, but it also extends to the Swedes. The Danes and Norwegians that I met were not particularly fond of Sweden's neutrality during WWII. One of my hosts, Klaus, who was a palace guard in Copenhagen during his Army service, said "...the only thing good about Sweden is driving through it!"



Have we met?

It's interesting how pretty much everyone in Scandinavia hates the Swedes. The Norwegians totally hate them because the Swedes HELPED Hitler invade Norway during the war (by letting him move troops through Sweden), the Finns hate the Swedes because they see Sweden as a cultureal threat to Finland (and resent Swedish being taught in Finnish schools), and the Danes hate them because they always come over to Denmark to get drunk because their drinking laws are restrictive. (We also hate them because they insist on operating a nuclear plant across the Sound from Copenhagen. If they needed the power, why not build it next to THEIR capital city, and not ours? Assholes )


Norway is a really, really nice place. They have an awesome Scandinvian society, but with lots more money from HUGE oil reserves (so they can afford the social programs better), and without the problems from muslim and african immigrants (because Norway is too cold for them ).

Link Posted: 9/26/2004 7:37:33 AM EST
I love Norway, go there every year
I've just come back from a weeks shooting there.
Good gun laws, they could be the best in Europe.
Beer's expensive though
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 8:02:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By lazyengineer:


We've been doing 200,000 H-1Bs each year for the last 3 years, right in the middle of massive tech downsizing. It's friggin' nuts. I think it's back to 64,000/year now.



There is a a side of that coin that is easy to neglect. Those H-1B immigrants are often the best that the world has to offer. The reasons that the USA is great, are plentiful. One of those reasons is that we are the great brain-drain of the world. Drawing from the pool of the worlds top 5% helps make this a country full of competent people - people who produce, make the economy, and ultimately make good jobs and cheap cost of living for the rest of us here too.

I find myself more than a little concerned that our active boarder closing policies of late will, in the end, cause us more harm than good.






Yeah, I'm sure closing off the southern border and not letting strawberry pickers through will really keep the top 5% of the world out.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 8:07:49 AM EST
Is Norway part of the EU?

Maybe that's why they have good gun laws, they're not.

CRC
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 8:22:20 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 8:22:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By BayEagle:

Originally Posted By vito113:
Originally Posted By mattja:




Fuck the French and the horse that rode them. (I just like saying it)



I think you meant the 'horse they rode in on'

However the idea of a horse 'riding' a Frenchman is a concept I could find highly amusing…

Andy

No, what he wrote is what he meant, see, the Frenchman TRIED to ride the horse, but the horse made a stand and the Frenchie surrendered!
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 8:26:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By eaglebite:

Originally Posted By mattja:

... the French found Norwegians a cold and aloof people.



Really? The French found someone else more aloof than themselves? Those bastards!



+1.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 8:36:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 8:36:44 AM EST by vito113]

Originally Posted By CRC:
Is Norway part of the EU?

Maybe that's why they have good gun laws, they're not.

CRC



The Government held a Referendum on joining and the public said 'No'…

Comment by a Norwegian on the EU… says it all…

""We are fundamentally different people", says Jim Johannessen, 65. "We think of ourselves as Scandinavians while the EU represents Europe. Norway's mentality has never placed it as a part of Europe." He is adamant that Norway shouldn't join because he doesn't want Norway's cultural identity to be eroded by bureaucrats. Jim explains: "I am afraid of being worse off. My pension is very comfortable and healthcare here is excellent." He tries to explain how people of his age do not want to be "cheated from their birthright" in the pension they have worked for and fear the EU would cause this."


www.student.city.ac.uk/~ra827/kari.html

ANdy
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 8:38:03 AM EST
They make good pastry to. :-)
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 8:39:21 AM EST
Thanks Andy.

Comfortable life and they don't want to lose it.

CRC
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 9:06:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 9:06:44 AM EST by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By CRC:
Thanks Andy.

Comfortable life and they don't want to lose it.

CRC




Although it's worth pointing out that they can AFFORD to have that position due to their oil and natural gas wealth. Sweden used to feel the exact same way, but still ended up joining the EU. Norway - as the Saudi Arabia of Scandinavia can afford that principle, whereas others cannot.

If countries like Denmark and Sweden had Norway's wealth, they probably wouldn't stay in the EU.


(Ironically, Denmark used to own the rights to large parts of the North Sea that contain much of Norway's oil/gas fields, and they were given to Norway - in what is still a very controversial decision in Denmark today).
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 9:16:54 AM EST
Ah hah.

So what does the EU offer Denmark and Sweden?

CRC
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 9:23:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:
Ah hah.

So what does the EU offer Denmark and Sweden?

CRC



Not much reallly, Sweden was already selling it's Volvo cars and IKEA furniture in Europe and Denmark had cornered the market in LEGO and Bacon… nope, can't think of a thing…

Andy
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 9:33:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:
Ah hah.

So what does the EU offer Denmark and Sweden?

CRC




I'm not an expert on this kind of stuff, but it's things like more access to markets, lower tariffs and trade barriers, more labor mobility, more coordinate fiscal policies, etc.

Originally, the Common Market was a NAFTA-kind of thing, and it has just grown into a might tigher and closer economics and trade collaboration. Then, all of these asshole politicans see the possibility of getting their names in the history books for "unifying" Europe into one super-nation, and the whole thing took off.

Ultimately, the EU might not be a bad idea, but the way it is being implemented is idiotic.

It's the half-assed, cobbled-together thing, hampered by odd decisions rules, and a lack of cohesion and agreement. For instance, Germany recently violated the very financial rules (to do with how large a deficit you could run or something like that) that they had insisted be imposed on the EU a few years ago. The attempts to write an EU Consitution have floundered and devolved into meaningless irrelevant babble.

If it had been PLANNED as a union all along, with clear goals and implementaiton schedules laid out, and countries had freely joinied with that premise in mind, then I think a European super-nation could PERHAPS have worked. I'm still skpetical, because quite frankly, Denmark and Sweden have NOTHING in commmon with places like Portugal or Turkey. They are as different as Maine and Brazil.

However - the way it is being now, I think it's going to turn into nothing but bureaucratic chaos and mess - with smaller countires like the Netherlands, Denmark, the Baltic states, etc - ultimately regretting it, but being to far "in" to be able to disengage.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 10:04:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By Clay-More:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Have we met?



Denmark is just small enough that you might even know the "Klaus" I'm acquainted with (Peterson sp?), who served in the mid to late 80's. He showed me several pics of himself in uniforms very similar to yours. After marrying, Klaus worked for Bayer in Cologne for some time, but I understand that he may be back in Copenhagen now. I know have several pics of him somewhere.



It's interesting how pretty much everyone in Scandinavia hates the Swedes...the Danes hate them because they always come over to Denmark to get drunk because their drinking laws are restrictive.



One of my biggest memories of Copenhagen is the drunken Swedes that were knee-walking about and bumping into people at Nyhaven. My Danish host had an intense dislike for them. To my knowledge, only the Aussies can drink more!



Swedes havent got a clue about drinking...

Link Posted: 9/26/2004 10:10:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 10:10:46 AM EST by vito113]

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Ah hah.

So what does the EU offer Denmark and Sweden?

CRC




I'm still skpetical, because quite frankly, Denmark and Sweden have NOTHING in commmon with places like Portugal or Turkey. They are as different as Maine and Brazil. .



I'm even more skeptical! Britain has nothing in common with the lot of them! We speak English, (well we did invent it) and they speak a collection of incomprehensible gibberish! Also, the EU was a French idea originaly… I rest my case

Andy
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