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Posted: 11/30/2014 12:49:51 PM EDT
[#1]
Our government wasn't really founded upon Paine's principles. Paine was essentially a proto-Leftist. Relatively radical. He ended up enthusiastically supporting the French Revolution, which ironically almost cost him his life. That revolution was in most respects highly contrary to the principles upon which our country was founded. He was a good writer, though.
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Posted: 11/30/2014 12:50:33 PM EDT
[#2]
I have an electronic copy.
And I read it. |
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Posted: 11/30/2014 12:51:19 PM EDT
[#3]
required reading in my junior year HS US history class, again lucked out and required reading for my political science philosophy class at university..........good reading. too bad our current bunch of politicians have not read it, or if they have they ignore it's ramifications and logic.
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Posted: 11/30/2014 12:52:08 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Our government wasn't really founded upon Paine's principles. Paine was essentially a proto-Leftist. Relatively radical. He ended up enthusiastically supporting the French Revolution, which ironically almost cost him his life. That revolution was in most respects highly contrary to the principles upon which our country was founded. He was a good writer, though. one could consider him a classical liberal........ Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one. Thomas Paine Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#f4zrQhXH1pCwOj3l.99 |
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Posted: 11/30/2014 12:53:09 PM EDT
[#5]
Everyone should read it and Alexis de Tocqueville's Democracy in America. Both show an amazing amount of insight into the American character.
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Posted: 11/30/2014 12:55:30 PM EDT
[#6]
Its been a while, but I seem to recall the Paine went on to be the first American radical lefty. Guy was occupying Wall Street when it was a dirt road.
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Posted: 11/30/2014 12:55:35 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
one could consider him a classical liberal........ Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one. Thomas Paine Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#f4zrQhXH1pCwOj3l.99 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Our government wasn't really founded upon Paine's principles. Paine was essentially a proto-Leftist. Relatively radical. He ended up enthusiastically supporting the French Revolution, which ironically almost cost him his life. That revolution was in most respects highly contrary to the principles upon which our country was founded. He was a good writer, though. one could consider him a classical liberal........ Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one. Thomas Paine Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#f4zrQhXH1pCwOj3l.99 Not really, especially since classical liberalism would not come into being until the mid-19th century. It is a particular school of liberalism. But Paine in many respects valued ideals in direct conflict with those of liberalism. |
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Posted: 11/30/2014 12:55:57 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Everyone should read it and Alexis de Tocqueville's Democracy in America. Both show an amazing amount of insight into the American character. Reading de Tocqueville will make you cry when you realize how far we've fallen. |
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Posted: 11/30/2014 12:56:31 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not really, especially since classical liberalism would not come into being until the mid-19th century. It is a particular school of liberalism. But Paine in many respects valued ideals in direct conflict with those of liberalism. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Our government wasn't really founded upon Paine's principles. Paine was essentially a proto-Leftist. Relatively radical. He ended up enthusiastically supporting the French Revolution, which ironically almost cost him his life. That revolution was in most respects highly contrary to the principles upon which our country was founded. He was a good writer, though. one could consider him a classical liberal........ Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one. Thomas Paine Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#f4zrQhXH1pCwOj3l.99 Not really, especially since classical liberalism would not come into being until the mid-19th century. It is a particular school of liberalism. But Paine in many respects valued ideals in direct conflict with those of liberalism. How is it then that most everyone of the founders had read and practically memorized Paine's tract? Purely semantics. Potato, potahto. |
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Posted: 11/30/2014 12:57:08 PM EDT
[#10]
Yes it's good reading
Another good one is "The Law" by Frederic Bastiat |
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Posted: 11/30/2014 12:59:59 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Purely semantics. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Our government wasn't really founded upon Paine's principles. Paine was essentially a proto-Leftist. Relatively radical. He ended up enthusiastically supporting the French Revolution, which ironically almost cost him his life. That revolution was in most respects highly contrary to the principles upon which our country was founded. He was a good writer, though. one could consider him a classical liberal........ Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one. Thomas Paine Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#f4zrQhXH1pCwOj3l.99 Not really, especially since classical liberalism would not come into being until the mid-19th century. It is a particular school of liberalism. But Paine in many respects valued ideals in direct conflict with those of liberalism. Purely semantics. Not at all. The ideas of the classical liberals can contrast rather sharply with those of other schools of liberal thought. For example, earlier liberalism tended to use religious justifications for liberty; classical liberalism is more Enlightenment-based and tends more towards utilitarianism and generally has an anti-ecclesiastical bent. The main commonality is the end, which is that in favour of liberty, although there can be differences even there. Paine was not a classical liberal. I'm not really sure he can be called much of a liberal at all given his ardent egalitarianism and support for the French Revolution. |
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Posted: 11/30/2014 1:01:20 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not at all. The ideas of the classical liberals can contrast rather sharply with those of other schools of liberal thought. For example, earlier liberalism tended to use religious justifications for liberty; classical liberalism is more Enlightenment-based and tends more towards utilitarianism and generally has an anti-ecclesiastical bent. The main commonality is the end, which is that in favour of liberty, although there can be differences even there. Paine was not a classical liberal. I'm not really sure he can be called much of a liberal at all given his ardent egalitarianism and support for the French Revolution. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Our government wasn't really founded upon Paine's principles. Paine was essentially a proto-Leftist. Relatively radical. He ended up enthusiastically supporting the French Revolution, which ironically almost cost him his life. That revolution was in most respects highly contrary to the principles upon which our country was founded. He was a good writer, though. one could consider him a classical liberal........ Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one. Thomas Paine Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#f4zrQhXH1pCwOj3l.99 Not really, especially since classical liberalism would not come into being until the mid-19th century. It is a particular school of liberalism. But Paine in many respects valued ideals in direct conflict with those of liberalism. Purely semantics. Not at all. The ideas of the classical liberals can contrast rather sharply with those of other schools of liberal thought. For example, earlier liberalism tended to use religious justifications for liberty; classical liberalism is more Enlightenment-based and tends more towards utilitarianism and generally has an anti-ecclesiastical bent. The main commonality is the end, which is that in favour of liberty, although there can be differences even there. Paine was not a classical liberal. I'm not really sure he can be called much of a liberal at all given his ardent egalitarianism and support for the French Revolution. You could then throw TJ in that mix with him as well. |
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Posted: 11/30/2014 1:04:22 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You could then throw TJ in that mix with him as well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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one could consider him a classical liberal........ Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one. Thomas Paine Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#f4zrQhXH1pCwOj3l.99 Not really, especially since classical liberalism would not come into being until the mid-19th century. It is a particular school of liberalism. But Paine in many respects valued ideals in direct conflict with those of liberalism. Purely semantics. Not at all. The ideas of the classical liberals can contrast rather sharply with those of other schools of liberal thought. For example, earlier liberalism tended to use religious justifications for liberty; classical liberalism is more Enlightenment-based and tends more towards utilitarianism and generally has an anti-ecclesiastical bent. The main commonality is the end, which is that in favour of liberty, although there can be differences even there. Paine was not a classical liberal. I'm not really sure he can be called much of a liberal at all given his ardent egalitarianism and support for the French Revolution. You could then throw TJ in that mix with him as well. Quite a few people do, on the Left and the Right (there was a time in the 20th century when the Left was naming all sorts of stuff after him). Jefferson did move away from egalitarianism more and more as he aged, however; some of his later writings are quite elitist and contrast sharply to his earlier, more radical writings. But it is the earlier Jefferson with which most people are familiar. |
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Posted: 11/30/2014 1:06:59 PM EDT
[#14]
Quite a few people do, on the Left and the Right (there was a time in the 20th century when the Left was naming all sorts of stuff after him). Jefferson did move away from egalitarianism more and more as he aged, however; some of his later writings are quite elitist and contrast sharply to his earlier, more radical writings. But it is the earlier Jefferson with which most people are familiar. complicated guy, very complicated, considering his beliefs in liberty, his love for Sally, and his authorship of certain founding documents. |
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Posted: 11/30/2014 1:45:00 PM EDT
[#15]
An excellent read that distilled the whole notion of why action was necessary to a common sense sales pitch. The oratory skills of theses guys was incredible, we need more of it today.
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