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Posted: 12/29/2002 6:18:28 AM EDT
[#1]
And why were the legally owned rifles seized?
Thank God we have police to stop homeowners from defending themselves. |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 6:41:32 AM EDT
[#2]
The cops probably took his rifles because they know that once he is convicted for the pistol he will not be allowed to own gun at all.
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Posted: 12/29/2002 6:48:35 AM EDT
[#3]
I'm concurring with Philadelphia_GunMan on this:
[url]http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?cl=82&a=68[/url] S 265.03 Criminal possession of a weapon in the second degree. A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the second degree when, with intent to use the same unlawfully against another: (1) He possesses a machine-gun; or (2) He possesses a loaded firearm; or (3) He possesses a disguised gun. Criminal possession of a weapon in the second degree is a class C felony. Any guesses on the charge? |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 6:53:52 AM EDT
[#4]
Possession of an unlicensed pistol is grounds to have all of your weapons seized pending the disposition of the charge. Contrary to popular belief, it is not hard to get a pistol permit in NYS... NYS is essentially shall issue since the issuing authority (Judge) must demonstrate why you are denied, essentially a prohibited person. Now getting an unrestricted carry permit is another issue, but a premise permit or carry permit with hunting/target shooting restrictions are easy to come by.
He broke the law. Agree with it, disagree with it, but when you break the law there are consequences. If he had a rifle or shotgun he should have used that and there would not have been a problem. Maybe they would have seized his guns temporarily pending a decision by the DA whether the shooting was justifed, but he would have got them back. In NYS you have no duty to retreat from a threat in your home, you may defend you, your family and your home without fear from intrusion and assault. Using an illegal pistol was just plain stupid and criminal. |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 7:02:16 AM EDT
[#5]
Fourth degree weapons possession is possession of a pistol in your residence or business or an unloaded pistol outside your residence or business. It is a Class A misdemeanor. Third degree is possession of a loaded pistol outside your residence or business.
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Posted: 12/29/2002 7:03:54 AM EDT
[#6]
thank god i live in a state where i don't need a permit of permission to have a firearm in my home.
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Posted: 12/29/2002 7:12:35 AM EDT
[#7]
The only permit he needed was for a pistol and they are easy to obtain. No permitted needed for a rifle or shotgun. He fucked up. No pity for him here.
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Posted: 12/29/2002 7:16:18 AM EDT
[#8]
he shouldn't need a permit for a pistol in his home at all. But then if that is the law he did break it.
mike |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 7:21:55 AM EDT
[#9]
thank god i live in a state where i don't need a permit of permission to have a firearm in my home. |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 7:24:58 AM EDT
[#10]
I agree that if he broke the law there should be consequences but I think taking the legally owned rifles does seem over the top. It's not like the guy was going anywhere, they knew where he lived.
Sounds like another law that our buds at NRA should be fighting against. So many laws, so many nitwits, so little time... |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 7:27:00 AM EDT
[#11]
NY's pistol permit law was the first in the country... not like it took this fool by surprise, its been on the books for 90 years.
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Posted: 12/29/2002 7:38:14 AM EDT
[#12]
I think a pistol permit in Nassau (for your residence) requires the payment of $200 to the gods of corrupt government every few years. I can think of better uses for my money.
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Posted: 12/29/2002 7:45:31 AM EDT
[#13]
Robbed by a 42 year old? Chop his arm off. I have machetes in every room now. Forget having a gun, to much paperwork, from now on I'm hacking would-be robbers to pieces. Haha, Jim Bowie is my president.
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Posted: 12/29/2002 7:46:31 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: [red]The only permit he needed was for a pistol and they are easy to obtain.[/red] No permitted needed for a rifle or shotgun. He fucked up. [red]No pity for him here.[/red] And no pity for those who threw tea into Boston harbor...... A tea tax stamp was easy to get too. You must be the nra. Civil disobedience and jury nullification is as American as apple pie. This guy needs the support of pro-gunners every where. |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 7:47:40 AM EDT
[#15]
Than keep a shotgun around for protection... no permit needed, no money to the government and you can still buy one private sale in NY so no paper trail. Does that satisfy your paranoia meter?
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Posted: 12/29/2002 7:47:54 AM EDT
[#16]
I'm getting mixed up - seems like some of you are talking about NYS law and others about local law.
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Posted: 12/29/2002 8:02:06 AM EDT
[#17]
It remains to be seen what the final disposition of the case will be. If Freamon has no prior criminal history my guess is he may just get off with an ACD or probation based on the circumstances. I can almost guarantee the dirtbag burglar had a 10 page rap sheet.
A .22 pistol is a poor choice as a defensive weapon for defending your castle anyway. An 18" pistol gripped pump shotgun loaded with .00 or #1 buckshot would have been a far better choice. |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 8:03:34 AM EDT
[#18]
[b]He should have used a Shotgun.[/b]
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Posted: 12/29/2002 8:15:00 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: I'm getting mixed up - seems like some of you are talking about NYS law and others about local law. You must be issued a license under NYS law to possess a pistol in NYS. Each county in NYS has their own rules and procedures for issuing a permit though. As HW indicated they must issue you a permit or state the reasons for the denial. You then have the right to challenge the decision in court. I'm not aware of anyone being denied a permit who did not have a criminal history problem. |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 8:36:05 AM EDT
[#20]
I can agree in poor judgement defending yourself with an "illegal gun" - so far as covering oneself. But thats not the point.
Given that the law itself is illegal, there SHOULD be no charges brought against this guy. Why should he PAY for defending his life when the People's Republic of New York will gladly let crackheads, rapists, and other real criminals out of jail early? If I were a cop in New York, I would turn in my badge if forced to arrest someone for this. This is another example why our freedoms are going to sh#t in America. It may be an old law -but its still wrong. Depriving a good citizen of their right to keep and bear arms is simply IMMORAL. It blatantly violates the 2nd Amendment and the English common law which our system was based on. Fortunately, my state does not have laws like this on the books. And if it gets too bad here, I'll move next door to New Hampshire. Or say F##K the system and live like a free person. Freedom isn't free, and until you've spent some time living in Europe its hard to fathom just how close we are to complete socialism in America. Yes - one could say poor choice in using a gun thats unregistered - but when seconds count - what matters most - your life or a stupid bullsh#t law? |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 8:36:07 AM EDT
[#21]
Yep, if had used a shotgun, he could have avoided the weapons charge. Not only that, but you can be sure the perp is going to sue this guy. A shotgun would have left it as a one-sided story.
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Posted: 12/29/2002 9:24:26 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Than keep a shotgun around for protection... no permit needed, no money to the government and you can still buy one private sale in NY so no paper trail. Does that satisfy your paranoia meter? And when shotguns require a "permit"??? After all, "it's the law"! |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 9:31:11 AM EDT
[#23]
I have to agree with Hiram. A pistol liscense for target or protection really isn't that hard to get these days. I have a friend in Suffolk County that received his in 2 weeks.
Now the guy has to worry about losing ALL his firearms. If he is convicted, he won't be allowed to own a firearm in NY. |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 9:35:05 AM EDT
[#24]
Moral of the story:
Never use an unlicensed .22LR pistol when you have a centerfire rifle handy. |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 9:48:30 AM EDT
[#25]
So in fact he faced two burgalars in one day. Seems to me that the cops were the bigger threat. It won't be long till they come for everybody's guns.
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Posted: 12/29/2002 10:07:01 AM EDT
[#26]
i'm for pinning a medal on his chest! good shooting, buddy!
next time i hope he DOES use a shotgun...and empties the magazine into the thief. pistol 'permit' my ass! i don't care if the law is 90 decades old or 90 centuries on the 'books'. it's bullshit. |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 10:15:05 AM EDT
[#27]
I can't believe some of you guys are saying "a permit isn't hard to get" as if that justifies anything.
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Posted: 12/29/2002 10:17:49 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: And when shotguns require a "permit"??? After all, "it's the law"! I live approximately eight miles west of this guy, and I do require a permit for my shotguns (New York City). Each long gun I have is registered with the City of Nazi York. |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 10:29:57 AM EDT
[#29]
The guy was a dumbass, plain and simple.
Using a .22 when you've got (assumption here) major calibers available? Even if not major calibers, as far as MV and resultant effectiveness goes the longer barrel wins every time. Using an illegal pistola when you've got legal rifles available? Huh? Per the story, he had been robbed before, so he'd been afforded plenty of time to come up with a viable defense plan before this particular incident occured. If this was his "thought out" plan, then the guy is a major dumbass. If he grabbed the illegal pistol because he was in a "condition white" panic mode in spite of his prior heads-up, then the guy is even more of a dumbass. No pity here either way. At least the fool doesn't live in Jolly Old England, where defending your domicile is a far more egregious crime than the violent entry there-of. -Eric *edited to add, notice how the perp was "blasted" by a .22 rimfire pistola. in my neck of the woods it usually takes something more like a .308 or a 12ga before it constitutes getting "blasted". funny shit, mon! |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 10:32:25 AM EDT
[#30]
WTF was he thinking ? How dare he defend his life and property with an unliscensed firearm that he legally obtained, how dare he ? There are so many laws on the books (City Ordinants,State Laws and Federal) That I would guess that if every house in the US was searched today, half of the population would be in court tomorrow for various infractions defending their rights. The way I see it this man was robbed twice, who wants to bet me that he also gets sued by the perp too......
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Posted: 12/29/2002 10:38:23 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: Than keep a shotgun around for protection... no permit needed, no money to the government and you can still buy one private sale in NY so no paper trail. Does that satisfy your paranoia meter? NO a shotgun cannot be carried easily so it provides no portable protection. a shotgun has under the best surcunstances, a limited capacity. a shotgun while providing adequate home protection, has no defence value on the road. for these purposes you need a pistol, therfore you need a permit in NY. this in order to excorsize a CONSTITUTIONALLY ENUMERATED, GOD GIVEN RIGHT. i say good luck, and take this one to the supreem if you can. my prayres are with you. civil disobedience is just about all we have left now.. |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 10:48:13 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: I have to agree with Hiram. A pistol liscense for target or[red][b] protection [/red][/b]really isn't that hard to get these days. I have a friend in Suffolk County that received his in [b]2 weeks.[/b] Now the guy has to worry about losing ALL his firearms. If he is convicted, he won't be allowed to own a firearm in NY. i don't know about other counties, but in my county "protection" would get the application automatically denied. and if yore friend got his permit in 2 weeks, then he was probably LEO, NOONE gets a permit in less that 3 months around here.. |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 10:54:05 AM EDT
[#33]
to all the turds who claim to have no pity for the guy...
I hope all your guns are confiscated and crammed up your ARSE! Seriously, I have a lot of pity for him. He was arrested for an UNCONSTITUTIONAL LAW that he has no obligation to follow whatsoever. If I was him I would go out the next day and buy a few new pieces to ensure my safety. Anyone who follows illegal laws in the name of avoiding a pain in the ass is discussed in this quote: "Any man who would sacrifice a little freedom for temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety" Enjoy your day, sheep. The grass is green. |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 11:04:36 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Quoted: [red]The only permit he needed was for a pistol and they are easy to obtain.[/red] No permitted needed for a rifle or shotgun. He fucked up. [red]No pity for him here.[/red] And no pity for those who threw tea into Boston harbor...... A tea tax stamp was easy to get too. You must be the nra. Civil disobedience and jury nullification is as American as apple pie. This guy needs the support of pro-gunners every where. Can I get an AMEN !!!!! [img]www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/thumb.gif[/img] |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 11:07:41 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: [red]The only permit he needed was for a pistol and they are easy to obtain.[/red] No permitted needed for a rifle or shotgun. He fucked up. [red]No pity for him here.[/red] And no pity for those who threw tea into Boston harbor...... A tea tax stamp was easy to get too. You must be the nra. Civil disobedience and jury nullification is as American as apple pie. This guy needs the support of pro-gunners every where. Can I get an AMEN !!!!! [url]www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/thumb.gif[/url] AMEN |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 11:18:41 AM EDT
[#36]
First off guys, the Supreme Court has addressed the issue of gun control on several instances and they have ruled that no right guaranteed under the constitution is absolute. Furthermore, if you are going to cite the Constitution as your authority than you must also recognize that Article 3 sets the Supreme Court as the ultimate arbiter as what is and is not Constitutional, you can't have it both ways. If the Supreme Court has ruled that no right is absolute than their word is final... that [b] IS [/b] what the Constitution states.
As for listing protection as your reason for a permit it will not get your permit application denied, it will likely however not result in an unrestricted carry permit. Protection would be the most logical reason to obtain a premise or place of business permit. I don't like the law any more than you do, but the Supreme Court has on several occassions ruled on gun control and said it is in and of itself not unconstitutional. Furthermore they have refused to hear many cases on the issue which is a de facto ruling that the laws on the books may stand. It is an acknowledgement as to the constitutionality of a law without issuing a direct ruling on it. I would invite some of you know-it-alls to take a few law classes in Constitutional Law and then try offering an informed opinion. |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 11:32:04 AM EDT
[#37]
How about these "constitutional scholars" go BACK to school and learn what it really says, or should I just believe every thing I am spoon fed? I bet the second amendment was the only one in the bill of rights referring to the states, while the rest referred to the people. The ninth circuit thinks so. They went to law school, so they MUST be right! After all, the founding fathers were a bunch of illiterate crazy colonial rednecks, right? Last time I checked judges (even SCOTUS) were human and prone to faulty judgment/political bias. This attribute is made even worse by the fact that judges are picked for their political stances, not their strict adherence to unbiased by the book decision making.
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Posted: 12/29/2002 11:36:58 AM EDT
[#38]
The guy is a dumb ass period! Been robbed before and chooses to put an illegal gun in his house and then when faced with a robber picks the most ineffective weapon(and illegal)to dispatch the intruder. DUMBASS! There is definitely more to this story and my guess is there is some compelling reason he didn't have a pistol permit and chose to buy one illegally out of state. If you don't like the laws in your state do everything within your legal power to get them changed or MOVE, but don't tell anyone else that their only freedom left is civil disobedience. That's bullshit and if you think I'm going to jail just to make a point for you then you need a check up from the neck up. Like I said if you don't like the laws work on getting them changed or move to a more gun friendly state. Getting arrested only makes you a sorry spectacle and a poster boy for the anit gun press. my .02
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Posted: 12/29/2002 12:20:35 PM EDT
[#39]
It's a shame that Mark Freamon is being charged. He did the right thing regardless of weapon choice. It don't matter if he's been robbed before and should have had a better plan because when you are woken up at night from a noise you just grab what's close and fast. At least it's only 4th degree posession, that can easily be knocked down to a violation which is like a parking ticket. That's what I was charged with last time and if he doesn't have a serious record himself, a decent lawyer will be able to handle this case easily. The irony is that it will cost Mark Freamon at least $5,000 to retain an attorney, probably a lot more than he would have lost in goods from the burgulary. So he is actually getting robbed three times if you take that into account. I'm not knocking attorneys at all, just the system that burdens the good guys. I thought that if a Felon, who can't legally own a firearm, is allowed to use a firearm in defense of his life and not be charged with any weapons violations, why then is this guy being charged?
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Posted: 12/29/2002 12:49:50 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: I have to agree with Hiram. A pistol liscense for target or protection really isn't that hard to get these days. I have a friend in Suffolk County that received his in 2 weeks. Now the guy has to worry about losing ALL his firearms. If he is convicted, he won't be allowed to own a firearm in NY. Just another reason in a very long list to move. |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 1:14:32 PM EDT
[#41]
Should have used a .45
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Posted: 12/29/2002 1:15:30 PM EDT
[#42]
It's a sad day when people on this board side with the gun grabbers!
Yes he broke the law, but the LAW IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!! for the very reason we see here. Now he has no 2nd Amendment rights because he excercised them in the first place. I would understand better if he were to have the gun confiscated and pay a fine, but he has lost his rights completley and that is what's wrong with this licensing system. He did use poor judgement in not obtaining a license. If you choose to live in a socialist state you should agree to obey the laws. And for all you armchair quarterbacks saying he should of used this or should have done that...Get a life |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 1:27:11 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: It's a sad day when people on this board side with the gun grabbers! Yes he broke the law, but the LAW IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!! for the very reason we see here. Now he has no 2nd Amendment rights because he excercised them in the first place. I would understand better if he were to have the gun confiscated and pay a fine, but he has lost his rights completley and that is what's wrong with this licensing system. He did use poor judgement in not obtaining a license. If you choose to live in a socialist state you should agree to obey the laws. And for all you armchair quarterbacks saying he should of used this or should have done that...Get a life Exactly right Dolphin, if you choose to live here than you obey the laws... I don't like the laws any more than you do. I am forced to make a decision, live by them, disobey them and risk penalty, or move. I have chosen to obey them. I am free to leave. As for the consitutionality of the law the federal courts have said pistol permitting is a state issue and our State's highest court has ruled the law constitutional. End of story. By refusing to intercede the federal courts have ceeded the authority to the states and they act accordingly. Last I remember most of us on this board believe in states' rights. |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 4:14:14 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: I can't believe some of you guys are saying "a permit isn't hard to get" as if that justifies anything. The guy broke the law, plain and simple. You want to drive, to take the test, pay the fee, get a lisence and now you can legally drive. Same applies here. It's actually easier. You fill out the paper work, pay the fee and you get licensed. If he bother to deal with the little stuff, he wouldn't be in the mess he's in. He also wouldn't be a prime target for the anti's to say that gun laws should be stricter. As for my friend who had his target permit in two weeks, no he isn't a LEO. He's a proud gun owner that dotted his "I's" and crossed his "T's" in order to be able to own a hand gun in such an "unfriendly" gun owner state. |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 4:53:35 PM EDT
[#45]
Its true that the Supreme Court is the highest court in the land - its also true that today's judicial system could be just as easily run by a local circus of clowns. This socialist sh#t some people are accepting because it is the "law" is pathetic. In the 1700's, my ancestors would have tarred and feathered many of todays so-called "subject matter experts" on Constitutional law - regardless of their position in power. People gave their lives then over principle - but today I see gun owners who can't even recognize that an illegal law is wrong and irrelevant IF it inhibits defense of one's life and family. The people who founded this country would roll over in their graves to hear the apathetic talk here. When the last of our rights here are legislated away, where pray tell will the true Americans go? Its obviously too much of a hurdle to exercise civil disobedience to a corrupt and immoral law.
Does anyone have ANY intestinal fortitude left - or have we all resorted to cowering down to every illegal law? Our founders believed that God's law was higher then man's law - that did not go over too well with King George - but its nonetheless an inevitable truth. Those who disagree, should get on the boat BACK to England. To accept infringement of ones rights with the excuse that "its only a little bit of paperwork" is really sad. It hurts to be an American knowing that many among us are selfishly concerned only with their materialistic little lives - and nothing higher. No greater good. Its all about "Me, Me, Me - and the freedoms of generations to come be damned". Freedom isn't free - and it almost would be nice if Americans were required to somehow EARN those rights others died and bled for. Those who would give up a little liberty for temporary security deserve neither. As was stated before, those wishing to be SHEEP - please exit to the other side of the pasture. |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 4:54:55 PM EDT
[#46]
Do you still have to get 5 letters of references and take a mental hygeine test or is that a myth?
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Posted: 12/29/2002 4:56:11 PM EDT
[#47]
I have a hard time siding with the State/Gov. over idi-otic guns laws. I think a [s]law abidding[/s] citizen should have a right to defend himself. I realize all states are different,but for crying out load,here it's legal to walk down the street with one strapped to your hip,but you guys have to jump through hoops and pay money to have one...I just dont get it,we must have a different Constitution out here.
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Posted: 12/29/2002 4:59:09 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: Do you still have to get 5 letters of references and take a mental hygeine test or is that a myth? Three letters of reference from non-relatives... essentially yes/no questions and check-off boxes (one page), no mental hygiene exam. Fingerprints, photo and criminal background check. |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 4:59:37 PM EDT
[#49]
h-rANGER, did you give imbroglio the day off. You're being an idjit.
Any law that is bad in the face of the US Constitution, is null and void. He may have to fight it, but he is still right. Pull the cob out of your ass. All of your posts today have been annoyingly assinine. TXLEWIS |
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Posted: 12/29/2002 5:07:15 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: As for my friend who had his target permit in two weeks, no he isn't a LEO. He's a proud gun owner that dotted his "I's" and crossed his "T's" in order to be able to own a hand gun in such an "unfriendly" gun owner state. How did he get his prints checked by the FBI and DCJS in only 2 weeks? They usually put non-criminal stuff at the bottom of the pile. In most cases it takes 3-4 months for the background checks, administrative bs and getting a judge or licensing officer to sign-off on the permit. |
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