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Posted: 8/3/2005 11:52:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2005 11:54:26 AM EDT by Szurgot]
So a contractor I know just came into my office. He is into guns too and we are bullshitting about this and that. I ask his what he is carrying now adays. He produces his 9mm CZ, pops the mag, ejects the chambered round and hands it to me. All while I am watching it. So I take it, no finger trigger action, to have a look see.

Some people would think I have a safe gun in my hands at this point, but I was always taught to check that chamber for myself no matter if the other guy does it or not.

So I pull back on the slide and a fricken hollow point pops out a me. Now I saw this guy clear the weapon in the same fashion I would, so I didnt get mad. I dont know what the hell happened, but
I AM SURE GLAD I KNOW MY GUN SAFETY.

If you dont look here www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=190118

Link Posted: 8/3/2005 11:55:00 AM EDT
You did good - always check the chamber when a firearm is handed to you.

ALWAYS.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 11:59:56 AM EDT
good job
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:03:08 PM EDT
[doug henning] Its Magic! [/doug henning]
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:09:23 PM EDT
The order of events is skewed...

He racked the slide to eject the round, then dropped the mag.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:11:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:
The order of events is skewed...

He racked the slide to eject the round, then dropped the mag.



correctumundo.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:13:35 PM EDT
I'm pretty anal about firearms safety (not that it's a bad thing).

If someone checks and clears a gun right in front of me then hands me the weapon, I'll still recheck it.

If I check and clear my own firearm, put it aside for a minute, I'll recheck it again, even when there was no one else in the room or on the firing line at the time.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:14:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LoginName:
I'm pretty anal about firearms safety (not that it's a bad thing).

If someone checks and clears a gun right in front of me then hands me the weapon, I'll still recheck it.

If I check and clear my own firearm, put it aside for a minute, I'll recheck it again, even when there was no one else in the room or on the firing line at the time.



I am the exact same way.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:14:59 PM EDT
Maybe I can have this guy let our favorite senator hold his gun.



I am sure I'll make a FBI list for that comment. Where did I put my tin foil hat?
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:16:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LoginName:
I'm pretty anal about firearms safety (not that it's a bad thing).

If someone checks and clears a gun right in front of me then hands me the weapon, I'll still recheck it.

If I check and clear my own firearm, put it aside for a minute, I'll recheck it again, even when there was no one else in the room or on the firing line at the time.



I do the same thing. I thought I was weird or something.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:19:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2005 12:21:44 PM EDT by NewbHunter]

Originally Posted By Forest:
You did good - always check the chamber when a firearm is handed to you.

ALWAYS.



Yep, one of the things I always tell people when teaching them firearm safety is, don't even ask if a gun is loaded when someone hands it to you. There is no reason to ask, because you always assume it is anyway, so it really doesn't matter what the person's answer is. Check it yourself to be sure.

Just curious, but did the guy actually look into the chamber when he cleared it, or did he just rack the slide, saw that a shell popped out, and then handed it to you? I always look at the bolt face and the chamber to make sure nothing is in there.

Edit: Nevermind, nice catch on the order being skewed. Doesn't work too well if you rack the slide and THEN drop the mag!
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:20:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:
The order of events is skewed...

He racked the slide to eject the round, then dropped the mag.



That would make sense, but I watched him do it in the proper order.

Just goes to show, you can never be too safe. I wouldnt of pulled the trigger anyway, but if the same thing happened to someone who didnt know some basic gun safety it could of been bad.

I have never been so glad not to be DEA
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:23:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:

Originally Posted By Forest:
You did good - always check the chamber when a firearm is handed to you.

ALWAYS.



Yep, one of the things I always tell people when teaching them firearm safety is, don't even ask if a gun is loaded when someone hands it to you. There is no reason to ask, because you always assume it is anyway, so it really doesn't matter what the person's answer is. Check it yourself to be sure.

Just curious, but did the guy actually look into the chamber when he cleared it, or did he just rack the slide, saw that a shell popped out, and then handed it to you? I always look at the bolt face and the chamber to make sure nothing is in there.



Thinking back I did not see him actually eye the chamber. But after removing the mag, he definetly ejected a round. I dont know how the thing could have double fed like that, but it did.
And when I pulled back the slide definetly a live round popped out.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:25:24 PM EDT
all guns are loaded, always

that's what I live by.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:26:57 PM EDT
Last time I handed a guy a pistol and they asked "is it loaded" I replied that they new better than to ask - all guns should be considered loaded. (They promptly checked)
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:29:16 PM EDT
Good lessons. Also, when you're showing guns to buddies, take the extra second and lock the slide back when you hand it to them, makes it a lot more comfortable for everyone.

Leave the cylinder out if it's a revolver, or lock the bolt back on an AR.
Takes half a second longer and there is no downside.

Be safe.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:31:24 PM EDT
If there's ever a doubt, it's loaded.

If there isn't a doubt, it's still loaded.


Oh yes, and the No. 1 rule in gun safety: Never point a gun at something you don't wish to destroy.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:31:44 PM EDT
Just not getting how this would happen. With the mag dropped, that would mean there was two live rounds still in the gun. One in the chamber and one in the ???????????????
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:33:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Szurgot:

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:

Originally Posted By Forest:
You did good - always check the chamber when a firearm is handed to you.

ALWAYS.



Yep, one of the things I always tell people when teaching them firearm safety is, don't even ask if a gun is loaded when someone hands it to you. There is no reason to ask, because you always assume it is anyway, so it really doesn't matter what the person's answer is. Check it yourself to be sure.

Just curious, but did the guy actually look into the chamber when he cleared it, or did he just rack the slide, saw that a shell popped out, and then handed it to you? I always look at the bolt face and the chamber to make sure nothing is in there.



Thinking back I did not see him actually eye the chamber. But after removing the mag, he definetly ejected a round. I dont know how the thing could have double fed like that, but it did.
And when I pulled back the slide definetly a live round popped out.



You may think that is what you saw, but there is no way 2 rounds can fit in the chamber.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:34:14 PM EDT
Well, I don't have a CZ pistol.

But thanks for sharing because close encounters increase awareness.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:34:30 PM EDT
The gun should have been passed with the slide locked back to show it was safe.

But congrats on avoiding a thread debating "ND" vs. "AD" or even worse.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:35:45 PM EDT
Doesn't matter how it happened, seems like it can, and possibly will again. With my eyesight, I use the pinky in the chamber check, especially if I take 10mm and .45 to the range. I'm spooked I could pick up a random 10mm and try to cycle it thru my Sig.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:36:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Razorking:
Just not getting how this would happen. With the mag dropped, that would mean there was two live rounds still in the gun. One in the chamber and one in the ???????????????



Pulled back the slide and cleared the round in the chamber.

Let the slide go foward (instead of at least locking it to the rear), chambered a new round.

Dropped the mag with one still in the pipe.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:38:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Razorking:
Just not getting how this would happen. With the mag dropped, that would mean there was two live rounds still in the gun. One in the chamber and one in the ???????????????



I am right there with you. I dont know how but it did, about 45 minutes ago.

This guy would never intentionally hand me a loaded weapon. And with the exception of eyeing the chamber ,which was pointed out, he did the standard protocol.

Regardless of how, the point remains that you never know, so assume it is.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:38:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2005 12:39:32 PM EDT by Gloftoe]
Good job catching it.

However, if he dropped the mag, and ejected a round after dropping the mag, then the gun was clear. You should still recheck it, as all guns are always loaded. But there is NO way if he:

1) dropped the mag, and kept it OUT of the pistol;
2) ejected a round from the pistol (and you SAW that round come out of the pistol);
e) he handed you the pistol immediately afterward;

that the pistol could have magically loaded its own chamber. Something's wrong with your story.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:39:02 PM EDT
I have always thought it rude to hand someone a firearm of any kind with a closed chamber. Before I will hand someone a weapon even if I know it is empty I will open the cylinder and hand it to them that way or drop the mag and lock the slind back.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:41:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By krpind:

Originally Posted By LoginName:
I'm pretty anal about firearms safety (not that it's a bad thing).

If someone checks and clears a gun right in front of me then hands me the weapon, I'll still recheck it.

If I check and clear my own firearm, put it aside for a minute, I'll recheck it again, even when there was no one else in the room or on the firing line at the time.



I am the exact same way.



Yup. When receiving are handing over a weapon I check the action.

Unless of course I am deliberately handing someone a loaded firearm and they know it.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:43:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By spcwes:
I have always thought it rude to hand someone a firearm of any kind with a closed chamber. Before I will hand someone a weapon even if I know it is empty I will open the cylinder and hand it to them that way or drop the mag and lock the slind back.



Agreed. There is a courtesy associated with firearms for a reason.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:47:44 PM EDT
Maybe WildBoar's doppelganger put the extra round in there.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:49:55 PM EDT
We are all on the same page here......AWARENESS!!!!
But some things just don't happen, or what you saw wasn't what really happened. I mean no disrespect, the eyes do play tricks
I don't care how somebody hands me a weapon as long as I'm not looking at the business end!
I trust no-one and will preform my own check once in my control.
We should all know how to handle a weapon, it's doesn't matter what the condition is. The protocol is always the same.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:52:51 PM EDT
I have a P38, I took the mag, racked the slide back, visually inspected the chamber to ensure it was empty, let the slide go, pointed, pulled the trigger, BANG. One round was missing from the mag. I don't know how it happened but one round popped out of the mag and hung up in the mag well.

Now, I lock the slide back and check the mag well.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:57:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I have a P38, I took the mag, racked the slide back, visually inspected the chamber to ensure it was empty, let the slide go, pointed, pulled the trigger, BANG. One round was missing from the mag. I don't know how it happened but one round popped out of the mag and hung up in the mag well.

Now, I lock the slide back and check the mag well.



Bama, What created the force to push the cartridge up the feedramp and into the chamber?
What am I missing guys. Can a loose round in a mag well get feed into the chamber?
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 12:57:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I have a P38, I took the mag, racked the slide back, visually inspected the chamber to ensure it was empty, let the slide go, pointed, pulled the trigger, BANG. One round was missing from the mag. I don't know how it happened but one round popped out of the mag and hung up in the mag well.

Now, I lock the slide back and check the mag well.



Thank you bama-shooter. However unlikely it happened to you too. I am just glad I didnt pull the trigger or my 19'' monitor would have a 4'' hole.

The first words out of both of our mouths was in unison "What the fuck". He followed with " you saw me pull the mag and clear the chamber, right" Followed with another "what the fuck"
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 1:01:04 PM EDT
I always have gotten into the habit of dropping the mag, and racking the slide 3 times, just to double/triple check. I visually inspect the opening each time I rack the slide.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 2:09:47 PM EDT
Are you sure it ejected or thought it did ?
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 2:19:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By echo459:

Originally Posted By LoginName:
I'm pretty anal about firearms safety (not that it's a bad thing).

If someone checks and clears a gun right in front of me then hands me the weapon, I'll still recheck it.

If I check and clear my own firearm, put it aside for a minute, I'll recheck it again, even when there was no one else in the room or on the firing line at the time.



I do the same thing. I thought I was weird or something.



So do I. It means that you were properly trained. Kudos to who ever instilled that in you.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 2:56:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2005 2:57:20 PM EDT by rtech]
And people wonder why I get jumpy having a gun pointed at me when working at the gun shop.

This is a prime example of why gun shops want you to clear your firearm before entering thier store.

I have had way too many guns pointed at me.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 3:00:42 PM EDT
Ain't no such critter as an unloaded firearm......
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 4:32:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I have a P38, I took the mag, racked the slide back, visually inspected the chamber to ensure it was empty, let the slide go, pointed, pulled the trigger, BANG. One round was missing from the mag. I don't know how it happened but one round popped out of the mag and hung up in the mag well.

Now, I lock the slide back and check the mag well.



Needed to get my Glock 17 front site fixed. Some friends came by on their way to the town where the gunshop was located. I dropped the mag and cycled the action to verify there was no round in the gun.

To disassemble a Glock, you pull the trigger. Going back to the second rule my father taught me (Always point a gun in a safe direction) i pointed it downwards towards an outside wall and proceeded to do so.


BANG!

Blew a hole in the wall and the dirt just outside.

To this day I'm convinced the order was correct. And now I visually look in the chamber twice before doing anything.

Anyone have an AD. That's why all the safe handling rules have to be followed.


Link Posted: 8/3/2005 4:46:04 PM EDT
We almost lost our big bi-monthly gun show here in Western PA because two people (1 dealer and 1 customer) forgot every basic rule that you all just mentioned. The true shame of it was that an innocent bystander took one in the leg from that EMPTY gun that nobody bothered to clear.

Link Posted: 8/3/2005 4:58:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tannim:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I have a P38, I took the mag, racked the slide back, visually inspected the chamber to ensure it was empty, let the slide go, pointed, pulled the trigger, BANG. One round was missing from the mag. I don't know how it happened but one round popped out of the mag and hung up in the mag well.

Now, I lock the slide back and check the mag well.



Needed to get my Glock 17 front site fixed. Some friends came by on their way to the town where the gunshop was located. I dropped the mag and cycled the action to verify there was no round in the gun.

To disassemble a Glock, you pull the trigger. Going back to the second rule my father taught me (Always point a gun in a safe direction) i pointed it downwards towards an outside wall and proceeded to do so.


BANG!

Blew a hole in the wall and the dirt just outside.

To this day I'm convinced the order was correct. And now I visually look in the chamber twice before doing anything.

Anyone have an AD. That's why all the safe handling rules have to be followed.





And another example of what happened to me. So to all you who think my eyes were playing tricks on me, or I just thought the guy did it like that, YOUR WRONG. Just because it hasnt happened to you (luckily), doesnt mean it cant (or doesnt) happen.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 5:05:50 PM EDT
I usually lock the slide open after taking out the mag and emptying the chamber and show them the chamber before they even take the gun out of my hands. Even give it a "pinky check" just to be sure.
Link Posted: 8/3/2005 5:20:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/3/2005 5:20:56 PM EDT by jrzy]
I know the feeling.
The night I finished building this rifle I was really tired.
I loaded the internal box mag with 5 rds.
I worked the bolt back and forth ejecting rds and checking the action.
I could have sworn I ejected all 5 rds and just as I was about to dry fire the 30.06 to relieve the action I looked down at my work bench as I applied pressure on the trigger and stopped and my hands immediately started sweating.
There were only 4 rds on my bench, I threw the bolt back open and out popped the 5th rd.
I almost blew a hole in my ammo cabinet (6' tall ammo cabinet) which lays at the end of my work bench.

You can never let up on yourself when it comes to firearm safety PERIOD!

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