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Posted: 5/16/2005 8:16:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2005 8:17:07 PM EDT by urbankaos04]
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 8:19:11 PM EDT
The ususal anti plan to tax ammo 1000% to make it unaffordable, because, after all, your right to keep and bear arms may be protected, but they say your right to keep and bear ammo is not.


Link Posted: 5/16/2005 8:19:46 PM EDT
high taxes have forced a lot of Kalis to flee to Arizona and Nevada.

Link Posted: 5/16/2005 8:20:51 PM EDT
Have you seen what a house in Neveda costs now??? Used to be affordable, now it's just like Cali!
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 9:26:38 PM EDT
For National Security in this Post 9-11 Era, it is time for the Federal Govt to step in and remove state's from instituting any firearms law more stringent than Federal law.
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 9:33:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
For National Security in this Post 9-11 Era, it is time for the Federal Govt to step in and remove state's from instituting any firearms law more stringent than Federal law.



Truer words have never been spoken. VERY NICE post!
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 9:36:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DrFrige:

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
For National Security in this Post 9-11 Era, it is time for the Federal Govt to step in and remove state's from instituting any firearms law more stringent than Federal law.



Truer words have never been spoken. VERY NICE post!



yep + 18 billion
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 9:37:24 PM EDT
maybe its time for everybody to help fight CA gun laws instead of just running away to another state and hoping that stupid legistators from los angeles wont follow them.
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 9:42:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheSelecter:
maybe its time for everybody to help fight CA gun laws instead of just running away to another state and hoping that stupid legistators from los angeles wont follow them.




AHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHA

­Like THAT will ever happen.

Lots of cowards on this board that won't even fight their OWN gun laws.

They will just keep saying they have it better than us.

Meanwhile the yoke is already around their necks and they don't even know it.

Sgatr15
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 10:03:57 PM EDT
hmmm, bet if this passes you will see a lot of bullet moulds sold to california......
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 10:09:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalPenguin:
hmmm, bet if this passes you will see a lot of bullet moulds sold to california......



if that passes all handloading becomes illegal too
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 10:29:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheSelecter:

Originally Posted By TacticalPenguin:
hmmm, bet if this passes you will see a lot of bullet moulds sold to california......



if that passes all handloading becomes illegal too



How woudl they ever regulate that?

I mean seriously, you cna buy hand reloaders, components are small...

my gov was tlaign about regulatng components... they could nto find a way to regulate anythign other than powders, and that did not work out for them...

BP can be made at home, fulminate as well, and easily, lead bullets are easy to make, if you shot anythign that can fire those you are laughing....
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 10:33:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2005 10:34:59 PM EDT by Mauser101]

Originally Posted By urbankaos04:
Have you seen what a house in Neveda costs now??? Used to be affordable, now it's just like Cali!



I'm sorry, but everybody on this board keeps telling Californian patriots to evacuate to a "free stae". Is it our fault that if we take ya'lls advice that your land values actually rise instead of stay stagnate?

I've still got several years here. Who knows what could happen in that time.
Link Posted: 5/16/2005 10:44:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2005 10:47:24 PM EDT by rara1141]

Originally Posted By urbankaos04:
Have you seen what a house in Neveda costs now??? Used to be affordable, now it's just like Cali!



yup, I know... saw the trends here 5 years ago and took action on it....flipped a property in 8 months with $3k for closing and $3k for the brokers... so it took $6000 of capital to make $90k in 8 months... now it's a "normal" market and the rush died out a bit...the key was to be able to SELL when the market was good, NOT BUY.....SELL>>>>SELL>>>>SELL>>>


I remember talking to people about investing in NFA... they told me "do the real estate thing, then you can buy 5 or 6 NFA items"...

Link Posted: 5/16/2005 11:04:49 PM EDT
This is a photo of 42FF [Washington state] training in field communication in [California] with the 31FF.

Deeds not words gentlemen, the most badass high speed low drag hero will never restore the republic by it's self, it takes organization and training together.


No man thinks more highly than I do of the patriotism, as well as abilities, of the very worthy gentlemen who have just addressed the House. But different men often see the same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope it will not be thought disrespectful to those gentlemen if, entertaining as I do opinions of a character very opposite to theirs, I shall speak forth my sentiments freely and without reserve. This is no time for ceremony. The question before the House is one of awful moment to this country. For my own part, I consider it as nothing less than a question of freedom or slavery; and in proportion to the magnitude of the subject ought to be the freedom of the debate. It is only in this way that we can hope to arrive at truth, and fulfill the great responsibility which we hold to God and our country. Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings.

Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it.

I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past. And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry for the last ten years to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves and the House. Is it that insidious smile with which our petition has been lately received? Trust it not, sir; it will prove a snare to your feet. Suffer not yourselves to be betrayed with a kiss. Ask yourselves how this gracious reception of our petition comports with those warlike preparations which cover our waters and darken our land. Are fleets and armies necessary to a work of love and reconciliation? Have we shown ourselves so unwilling to be reconciled that force must be called in to win back our love? Let us not deceive ourselves, sir. These are the implements of war and subjugation; the last arguments to which kings resort. I ask gentlemen, sir, what means this martial array, if its purpose be not to force us to submission? Can gentlemen assign any other possible motive for it? Has Great Britain any enemy, in this quarter of the world, to call for all this accumulation of navies and armies? No, sir, she has none. They are meant for us: they can be meant for no other. They are sent over to bind and rivet upon us those chains which the British ministry have been so long forging. And what have we to oppose to them? Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years. Have we anything new to offer upon the subject? Nothing. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves. Sir, we have done everything that could be done to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and Parliament. Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne! In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation. There is no longer any room for hope. If we wish to be free-- if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending--if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained--we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of hosts is all that is left us!

They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable--and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace-- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!



Sharpen your aim, not your tongue.

Link Posted: 5/17/2005 7:22:16 AM EDT
Good idea


SGatr15
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 8:23:41 AM EDT
+1000

The time is COMING!
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 8:32:45 AM EDT

To date, home re-loaders are exempt from the plan, thereby offering criminals easy access to unmarked ammunition;

A round of ammunition can be disassembled, its markings removed, then reassembled;

A revolver can be used in the commission of a crime, thereby leaving no spent shell casing if it is discharged; and

Spent shell casings can be collected from target ranges and reloaded (a common practice), thereby effectively masking ownership; and


Those determined to procure unmarked ammunition will purchase it from out of state or on the black market.




I think these words should be tatooed on the forehead and ass of every faschist prick attorney general, maybe then they will finally learn it.
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 1:50:49 PM EDT
Yeah practice being a pole holder. that's really brilliant.

In case you haven't looked most of CA is treeless desert , but you can hide out there and be a force to be reckoned with, just watch out the biker meth gangs are a little sensitive to their turf, nobody else will care. Or you could move into the lmountains, again then you get to deal with the pot farmers.

By the time you get to where people are we are just going to laugh at you running around in your cammies, while the gangs eat you up. Little boys playing soldiers give me a fucking break Looks like a convention from the goodwill store out there. How long did it take you to setup the photo so nobodies face is visible. Yeah I wouldn't want my Momma seeing that either after I got home.
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 1:53:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
Yeah practice being a pole holder. that's really brilliant.

In case you haven't looked most of CA is treeless desert




Have you ever even VISITED my state? If you have then you obviously have never been to NorCal. We are flooded with trees.


, but you can hide out there and be a force to be reckoned with, just watch out the biker meth gangs are a little sensitive to their turf, nobody else will care. Or you could move into the lmountains, again then you get to deal with the pot farmers.



Well, I have spent alot of time in the Norcal montains, and while there are some of the things you mentioned they are few and far between.



How long did it take you to setup the photo so nobodies face is visible. Yeah I wouldn't want my Momma seeing that either after I got home.



So, training is useless in your opinion??

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 2:39:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
Yeah practice being a pole holder. that's really brilliant.

In case you haven't looked most of CA is treeless desert




Have you ever even VISITED my state? If you have then you obviously have never been to NorCal. We are flooded with trees.


, but you can hide out there and be a force to be reckoned with, just watch out the biker meth gangs are a little sensitive to their turf, nobody else will care. Or you could move into the lmountains, again then you get to deal with the pot farmers.



Well, I have spent alot of time in the Norcal montains, and while there are some of the things you mentioned they are few and far between.



How long did it take you to setup the photo so nobodies face is visible. Yeah I wouldn't want my Momma seeing that either after I got home.



So, training is useless in your opinion??

Sgat1r5



Ignore the troll.
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 3:46:56 PM EDT
So the militia is a bad joke to you, what are you doing to make it better ?
The militia has a complete cross section of patriotic Americans, active duty military including all services, Law Enforcement, city, state and federal, justice system, A Well Regulated Militia .org was founded by a active duty Marine stationed in SoCal now owned by retired Army because the Marine got deploted to Iraq, the Marine is back now and training people in MI, the photo is only one of many as I have posted photos of exercises with representitives attending from every western state.

Seriously why not build up instead of tearing down ?

One thing be sure of, people from several states have suffered together during field operations and know who will show when the fight begins and several have participated in exercises along the southern U.S. border, so show me what you have done ?

"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement; and who, at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."
~ Theodore Roosevelt (1858-1919)






Originally Posted By PaDanby:
Yeah practice being a pole holder. that's really brilliant.

In case you haven't looked most of CA is treeless desert , but you can hide out there and be a force to be reckoned with, just watch out the biker meth gangs are a little sensitive to their turf, nobody else will care. Or you could move into the lmountains, again then you get to deal with the pot farmers.

By the time you get to where people are we are just going to laugh at you running around in your cammies, while the gangs eat you up. Little boys playing soldiers give me a fucking break Looks like a convention from the goodwill store out there. How long did it take you to setup the photo so nobodies face is visible. Yeah I wouldn't want my Momma seeing that either after I got home.

Link Posted: 5/17/2005 3:49:13 PM EDT
California has been and was lost long ago. Nuke it from orbit.
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 3:54:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mauser101:

Originally Posted By urbankaos04:
Have you seen what a house in Neveda costs now??? Used to be affordable, now it's just like Cali!



I'm sorry, but everybody on this board keeps telling Californian patriots to evacuate to a "free stae". Is it our fault that if we take ya'lls advice that your land values actually rise instead of stay stagnate?

I've still got several years here. Who knows what could happen in that time.



Not me. I recommend staying and fighting
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 4:25:55 PM EDT
CA used to be a Bellweather state as far as legislation goes and the Liberals are trying to keep that image alive but most of the rest of the US has come to their senses.
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 4:27:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 4:56:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheSelecter:
maybe its time for everybody to help fight CA gun laws instead of just running away to another state and hoping that stupid legistators from los angeles wont follow them.



Very hard to do with the major cities being liberal strongholds. We tried to get rid of that idiot Gephardt for a looooooooooooong time, but the libs kept voting him back in.
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 6:27:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By TheSelecter:
maybe its time for everybody to help fight CA gun laws instead of just running away to another state and hoping that stupid legistators from los angeles wont follow them.

AHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHA

Like THAT will ever happen.

Lots of cowards on this board that won't even fight their OWN gun laws.

They will just keep saying they have it better than us.

Meanwhile the yoke is already around their necks and they don't even know it.

Sgatr15

Just what, exactly, is a man from NC supposed to do to influence politics in CA? Write nastygrams to Bowser and FineSwine? Tell the Kali apparatchiks how bad I'll feel when CA enacts new anti-gun legislation? Let Arnie know how disappointed I am in the .50 ban?
Link Posted: 5/17/2005 7:11:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/17/2005 7:12:35 PM EDT by Sturmwehr]

Originally Posted By DigDug:
I would argue that ammunition is bearing arms.



DigDug, it's not the problem if the Constitution supports the right to ammunition (which is does), it's the problem that antis don't care.


Antis will straight tell you that "Right to bear arms..." means the right to wave your arms at a Madonna concert if it helps them get guns banned.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 12:21:18 AM EDT

but you can hide out there and be a force to be reckoned with, just watch out the biker meth gangs are a little sensitive to their turf, nobody else will care. Or you could move into the lmountains, again then you get to deal with the pot farmers.



Who the hell cares about Meth/Biker gangs and Pot growers. Shoot the scumbags. You would be doing society a favor and get some practice at the same time. You gotta start somewhere when carving out your own little piece of heaven. Why not start by doing a bit of scumbag hunting.
Link Posted: 5/19/2005 1:38:01 AM EDT
I worked on a laser brander [etcher] last summer labeling transistors. I could do about 10k transistors in a 10 hour day (9.5 hours after breaks) getting paid $9/hr, and I was one of the slow people. Assuming both the bullet and case need to be lasered, I could image the labor cost involved would be on the order of $0.019 for labor per round if done right. THe machine I was using cost $300,000 new, and was 3 years old and running fine. So, assuming your machines lasted 10 years (iit would probably go a lot longer, some of the equipment there was puchased used 30 years ago), and you run two shifts, 5 days a week, your cost on the machine would be $0.058 per round. I have no idea how much power and compressed air cost, but I suspect it is no more than $0.05 per round. I can easily see this doubling the cost of ammo in CA (well, cheap ammo prices would double, the price on that $27/box stuff wouldn't be as radically affected).

The argument that having a laser on the production floor would be dangerous because of explosions is a joke. A class 1 laser (which was what I was using) is bright enough that you can't look directly at what you are branding without having a heavy shield protecting your eyes. The machine I worked on had that built in in the form of an automatic sliding pannel. When the laser is on, the only things it's exposed to are air and the parts getting marked. Unless someone is stupid enough to coat the brass with poweder before they mark it, this won't be an issue.

Tracking the rounds would be the biggest problem, but I'm sure a lot of that could be automated. If the parts simply get branded in 50 round section, it wouldn't be too tough.


This thing sucks, but not as badly as everyone thinks. It's not a 1000% tax. It's useless for law enforcement because there are too many ways around it (handloading, leaving your brass in a trash can at the range, criminals policing there brass, etc.), but it's not going to bankrupt the gun industry.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 1:24:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
Yeah practice being a pole holder. that's really brilliant.

In case you haven't looked most of CA is treeless desert




Have you ever even VISITED my state? If you have then you obviously have never been to NorCal. We are flooded with trees.


, but you can hide out there and be a force to be reckoned with, just watch out the biker meth gangs are a little sensitive to their turf, nobody else will care. Or you could move into the lmountains, again then you get to deal with the pot farmers.



Well, I have spent alot of time in the Norcal montains, and while there are some of the things you mentioned they are few and far between.



How long did it take you to setup the photo so nobodies face is visible. Yeah I wouldn't want my Momma seeing that either after I got home.



So, training is useless in your opinion??

Sgat1r5



If you'ld quit playing with your little dolls once in a while, you might have noticed that I'm from California, in fact I'm a 4th generatin Californian.

What am I doing about the militiias to make it better? Well I used to include them in my Terrorism 101 lectures as being the right side equivalent of some of the left side nut case groups. I laugh about them a lot. They are and will be absolutely pathetic. Bunch of little boys playing soldiers and feeeling tough while getting their rocks off.

Yeah go hide out in the trees in Northern California and DO WHAT? Shoot spotted owls? tree huggers?, I don't suppose it ever occured to these masterminds that hiding in the mountains means they can be ignored?, hiding in the desert isn't much better, go ahead and dig hideyholes in the desert.

So come in to the cities and what will you accomplish? what are you going to do, play MaoTseTung and execute you enemies? who do you think your enemies will be? And do you really think that most of the people will support you? Are you going to hijack the Orowheat bread trucks, knock down power lines? Boy won't that go over well have group jerk offs and then come to down and try and convince the people that even thought you've been doing your best to discommode them you should be looked upon as heroes?

keerist give me a fucking break, you guys are class 1 bozos.

Training like that yeah sure that makes sense. Why don't you just get some ham radios and practice code on the weekly code nets, visit "Field Day" next month, you want to play communications game, see how they do it. Hide in plain site. You know code? how many batteries do you have, generators? can you go communicate by yourself for any length of time in a self supporting manner? if you have to cut and run , do you know how long to cut a long wire antenna?

Even if you have a million gung ho militia members, that's less than half a percent of the population. And how many of those guys are nut cases?

You know who your real enemy is. It's the guy that has been quiet, doesn't let everybody in the neighborhood know his preps, and when you "mobilize" and march to glory, he'll step out behind you, pop you in the brain pan, collect your guns and ammo and fade back in to the woodwork. The guy that figures you're a lot more dangerous to him and his family than the police ever will be.

Bemoan the sheeple, it's the sheeple that will survive, not the nut cases that decide to go out in their own little blazes of glory, and in the flocks of sheeple there will be the hidden predators
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 1:58:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
In case you haven't looked most of CA is treeless desert ,



Clueless * 100.



Or you could move into the lmountains, again then you get to deal with the pot farmers.



In all the years of living here and backpacking in the boonies, I have yet to come across a marijuana farm.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 2:15:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Iram:
I worked on a laser brander [etcher] last summer labeling transistors. I could do about 10k transistors in a 10 hour day (9.5 hours after breaks) getting paid $9/hr, and I was one of the slow people. Assuming both the bullet and case need to be lasered, I could image the labor cost involved would be on the order of $0.019 for labor per round if done right. THe machine I was using cost $300,000 new, and was 3 years old and running fine. So, assuming your machines lasted 10 years (iit would probably go a lot longer, some of the equipment there was puchased used 30 years ago), and you run two shifts, 5 days a week, your cost on the machine would be $0.058 per round. I have no idea how much power and compressed air cost, but I suspect it is no more than $0.05 per round. I can easily see this doubling the cost of ammo in CA (well, cheap ammo prices would double, the price on that $27/box stuff wouldn't be as radically affected).

The argument that having a laser on the production floor would be dangerous because of explosions is a joke. A class 1 laser (which was what I was using) is bright enough that you can't look directly at what you are branding without having a heavy shield protecting your eyes. The machine I worked on had that built in in the form of an automatic sliding pannel. When the laser is on, the only things it's exposed to are air and the parts getting marked. Unless someone is stupid enough to coat the brass with poweder before they mark it, this won't be an issue.

Tracking the rounds would be the biggest problem, but I'm sure a lot of that could be automated. If the parts simply get branded in 50 round section, it wouldn't be too tough.


This thing sucks, but not as badly as everyone thinks. It's not a 1000% tax. It's useless for law enforcement because there are too many ways around it (handloading, leaving your brass in a trash can at the range, criminals policing there brass, etc.), but it's not going to bankrupt the gun industry.




You forget sampling that takes place and ammunition that does not pass final inspection for some reason. How many 49 or 47 round boxes of ammo have you seen? If you make 52 rounds per box to cover sampling and inspection then all the extra ammo produced has to have the cost passed on too.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 2:22:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2005 2:26:24 AM EDT by Iram]

Originally Posted By Mr45auto:

Originally Posted By Iram:
I worked on a laser brander [etcher] last summer labeling transistors. I could do about 10k transistors in a 10 hour day (9.5 hours after breaks) getting paid $9/hr, and I was one of the slow people. Assuming both the bullet and case need to be lasered, I could image the labor cost involved would be on the order of $0.019 for labor per round if done right. THe machine I was using cost $300,000 new, and was 3 years old and running fine. So, assuming your machines lasted 10 years (iit would probably go a lot longer, some of the equipment there was puchased used 30 years ago), and you run two shifts, 5 days a week, your cost on the machine would be $0.058 per round. I have no idea how much power and compressed air cost, but I suspect it is no more than $0.05 per round. I can easily see this doubling the cost of ammo in CA (well, cheap ammo prices would double, the price on that $27/box stuff wouldn't be as radically affected).

The argument that having a laser on the production floor would be dangerous because of explosions is a joke. A class 1 laser (which was what I was using) is bright enough that you can't look directly at what you are branding without having a heavy shield protecting your eyes. The machine I worked on had that built in in the form of an automatic sliding pannel. When the laser is on, the only things it's exposed to are air and the parts getting marked. Unless someone is stupid enough to coat the brass with poweder before they mark it, this won't be an issue.

Tracking the rounds would be the biggest problem, but I'm sure a lot of that could be automated. If the parts simply get branded in 50 round section, it wouldn't be too tough.


This thing sucks, but not as badly as everyone thinks. It's not a 1000% tax. It's useless for law enforcement because there are too many ways around it (handloading, leaving your brass in a trash can at the range, criminals policing there brass, etc.), but it's not going to bankrupt the gun industry.




You forget sampling that takes place and ammunition that does not pass final inspection for some reason. How many 49 or 47 round boxes of ammo have you seen? If you make 52 rounds per box to cover sampling and inspection then all the extra ammo produced has to have the cost passed on too.



Yeah, and that's only going to be a 4% difference if they need to have make 52 rounds to fill a box of 50. Having non-continious serial numbers due to parts failing QC tests isn't going to be a significant issue. Even the JANS (Joint Army-Navy, space grade) parts that had to be serialized could have gaps, and usually did (though records were kept about the parts that failed).

EDIT: Also, I would expect that if a "sample" of a particular lot failed, the whole lot would fail, not just a few random parts in the middle.
Link Posted: 5/20/2005 2:24:57 AM EDT
You forget, its california. The law will be punitive to ammunition manufacturers and I'll bet any inconsistency in serial numbers will be dealt with harshly. They will not apply common sense. The purpose of this is to hurt the industry and to drive them out of the california market. Dont believe for a second they really give a damn about tracking anything.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 1:29:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mattja:

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
In case you haven't looked most of CA is treeless desert ,



Clueless * 100.



Or you could move into the lmountains, again then you get to deal with the pot farmers.



In all the years of living here and backpacking in the boonies, I have yet to come across a marijuana farm.



So Mattja, tell me how many years you've been here? 5? 10? 3? You really really think most of CA isn't treeless desert. Most of the Central Valley is treeless desert, most of Inyo, Mono, Kern, San Bernardino, Riverside and Imperial Counties is treeless desert, probably at least a third of LA County is treeless desert, a lot of San Diego County, etc. The Modoc country, etc. Try driving 395, I-15, I-40, I-8, SR-58 for most of their lengths and then say most of the state isn't treeless desert..

And have I ever come across a pot plantation. Yes.
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 7:21:39 AM EDT



And have I ever come across a pot plantation. Yes.



Next time call me, I need "shoot on the move" practice!
Link Posted: 5/21/2005 9:39:58 AM EDT
Do you think if they banned ammo or non-serialized ammo in Cali that people woudln't be able to get it? Cali banned high-capacity magazines yet plenty of people still got/get them into the state. When some people hear about taking action against things, regardless of what "your" government tells you, they run away screaming "illegal, you would be breaking the law, submit before it's too late". If people in the past hadn't done "what they had to do" to fight against what the imposing government that was trying to legislate them, we wouldn't be having this conversation. This would be a British nation. Was it illegal for the resistance fighters WWII to accept the Liberator pistols and other small arms that were given to them to defend themselves? Yes, because the legislating government told them that they weren't suppose to have weapons. But some of them still did it because they had to do what they had to do, at all costs.
Regardless of how many intelligent common sense people are moving out of California, there will always be busloads of mindless f**ktards moving into the state to ruin it. The state has been slowly ruined since even before the 86' MG ban and the 94 AW ban. Not just firearm rights have been ruined in Cali, all rights have been ruined. But, there are few people in Cali that have the desire to do "whatever it takes" to ensure there own rights regardless of what the mindless masses do, or what the bobblehead figures in a state building say their citizens should do. Lots of people talk the talk, but when it comes time, who will actually stand. Do you think all the lobbying to get back your rights is going to work, or do you think it's all going to go downhill untill there's a complete breakdown of the system or society? How many people are actually ready to protect themselves and their loved ones at all costs? How many people have weapons and ammo buried in a safe location "just in case"? How many people have built what is considered an "illegal, pre-ban, SBR" and placed it in a case with several loaded high capacity magazines for the fall of civilization? Regardless of whether you're worried about a state wide gun grab, an "L.A. Riot" style situation, gangs and dope dealers owner your streets, or whatever SHTF situation scares you........................................................................................................
Do what you have to do!
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