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Posted: 9/29/2004 4:10:38 PM EST
Multiple incedents over last month, latest one being someone trying to kick in the door when no one was home.

She only has a downstairs neighbor, but over penetration is still an issue imho... in any appt.

I am thinking a s/w, ruger, or taurus 2-4" 38spcl or 357mag she has small hands so something that is a small frame, double action, and maybe in a pretty color. Looking in the $300-$400 range.

Any thoughts, comments, suggestions?

I also like shotguns, but imho.. way to much to think about in moments of panic and fear, this is where a DA or DAO revolver comes in very handy.

I will drill her on her handgun as well, a day of fun(and serious learning) in the desert.

She also said to shoot them in the leg.. I said if your gonna shoot someone in defense of your life you need to kill them, no questions about it. I said if you are not willing to do that, then you need to think about it more. She is willing now.

I am hooking her up with a nice little 357(loaded with 38's) tonight probly, and I will go over it with her and do some small how to's tonight.

She love shooting, and I have taker her with me a few times, but not recently since she moved out about 2 years ago.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 4:16:01 PM EST
Autos are easier to shoot accurately. Something with a light and some training maybe?
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 4:21:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/29/2004 4:22:25 PM EST by Johnny_Reno]
Revolver would be my choice.

It's easier for a newbie to operate in a high stress environment. No fumbling around in the dark trying to find the safety or having to check if a round is in the chamber.

As far as accuracy, if her primary use is home defense, she isn't going to need to be able to shoot 10 rings at 25 yards.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 4:22:55 PM EST
My wife seems todo best with my CZ 75B in 9mm. She's dead on with it.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 4:24:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Autos are easier to shoot accurately. Something with a light and some training maybe?



I totally agree with you, but at under 7 yards, center mass is all I want. I also want uber simplicty, firing a DA revolver is very simple.. you point and pull the trigger, reloading is a different issue, but we are not going to get into that. Also being a female, they can have issues with autos related to limpwristing usually resulting in stovepipes.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 4:24:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Autos are easier to shoot accurately. Something with a light and some training maybe?




Disagree completely.....

A revolver IS best for a first time shooter, and a woman....

If she has little/no familiarity with handguns, the automatic is not a good choice as it's mechanically much more complicated and will likely confuse her......

NOT something you want, when the BG's come through the door in the middle of the night....

A revolver is perfect for her, I think..... Also teach her well how to use a flashlight at the same time...

God forbid she can't SEE what she has to draw down on and loses the 'tactical' advantage....

Lets pray that none of us ever has to be right though.......

P.S. get her a big ass dog !!! BEST scumbag repellant available !
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 4:25:12 PM EST
I asked my wife, and she would prefer a shotgun... You go girl!
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 4:32:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/29/2004 4:33:38 PM EST by diabolical_chicken]

Originally Posted By freeride21a:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Autos are easier to shoot accurately. Something with a light and some training maybe?



I totally agree with you, but at under 7 yards, center mass is all I want. I also want uber simplicty, firing a DA revolver is very simple.. you point and pull the trigger, reloading is a different issue, but we are not going to get into that. Also being a female, they can have issues with autos related to limpwristing usually resulting in stovepipes.







i am trying to save money to get a 357 revolver--many sources have advised it is a good choice for home defense--simple and easy--i have shot several and like them

however, i am a very good shot with the ex's 9mm pistol and im attempting not to get pissed at the sexist comment

Link Posted: 9/29/2004 4:44:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/29/2004 4:49:28 PM EST by freeride21a]

Originally Posted By diabolical_chicken:

Originally Posted By freeride21a:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Autos are easier to shoot accurately. Something with a light and some training maybe?



I totally agree with you, but at under 7 yards, center mass is all I want. I also want uber simplicty, firing a DA revolver is very simple.. you point and pull the trigger, reloading is a different issue, but we are not going to get into that. Also being a female, they can have issues with autos related to limpwristing usually resulting in stovepipes.







i am trying to save money to get a 357 revolver--many sources have advised it is a good choice for home defense--simple and easy--i have shot several and like them

however, i am a very good shot with the ex's 9mm pistol and im attempting not to get pissed at the sexist comment




Sorry, but after working at an indoor pistol range for 3 years, you just come to realize that well, many women limpwrist, I ran into this on a regular basis(few times a week). Call it sexist, call it stereotyping, call it what you want. I call it being realistic. This can also be more of an issue with some guns more than others... but not revolvers.

When I did encounter it, I usually advised a fix, many were able to stop, but some just did not get it. and imho, that is just one more thing to think about.. that you should not have to.

Not women limpwrist, but you would be surprized at how many do. On the other hand.. men death grip em. a whole nother set of issues to deal with.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 4:50:01 PM EST
I would do a glock 26 or 19!

if you are going to get a gun, get a gun.

when she does get it, she needs to be at the range weekly.

Remember - gun contron is being able to hit your target!

Badredfish
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 4:56:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By freeride21a:

Originally Posted By diabolical_chicken:

Originally Posted By freeride21a:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Autos are easier to shoot accurately. Something with a light and some training maybe?



I totally agree with you, but at under 7 yards, center mass is all I want. I also want uber simplicty, firing a DA revolver is very simple.. you point and pull the trigger, reloading is a different issue, but we are not going to get into that. Also being a female, they can have issues with autos related to limpwristing usually resulting in stovepipes.







i am trying to save money to get a 357 revolver--many sources have advised it is a good choice for home defense--simple and easy--i have shot several and like them

however, i am a very good shot with the ex's 9mm pistol and im attempting not to get pissed at the sexist comment




Sorry, but after working at an indoor pistol range for 3 years, you just come to realize that well, many women limpwrist, I ran into this on a regular basis(few times a week). Call it sexist, call it stereotyping, call it what you want. I call it being realistic. This can also be more of an issue with some guns more than others... but not revolvers.

When I did encounter it, I usually advised a fix, many were able to stop, but some just did not get it. and imho, that is just one more thing to think about.. that you should not have to.

Not women limpwrist, but you would be surprized at how many do. On the other hand.. men death grip em. a whole nother set of issues to deal with.




Link Posted: 9/29/2004 4:57:13 PM EST
20ga. shotgun , pump, short barrell, short (but complete) butt stock. No handguns.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 5:02:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By badredfish:
I would do a glock 26 or 19!

if you are going to get a gun, get a gun.

when she does get it, she needs to be at the range weekly.

Remember - gun contron is being able to hit your target!

Badredfish


NO GLOCKS unless she trains with them first. If she'll limp-wrist, Glocks are NOT for her.

And I don't think that his comment about limp-wristing is sexist. If he's seen more women than men limp-wrist when shooting semi-autos, then that's what he's seen. I've seen it too. Some women (that are not serious shooters) do NOT hold the pistol in a "serious" manner. .357 revolver is a GOOD choice for a first handgun, for ANYONE.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 5:04:58 PM EST
Rem 870HD and No 4 buck. It has more stopping power than a handgun and doesn't require a lot of skill to operate.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 5:06:44 PM EST
shotguns you have to pump.

I do have a question... how is the #4 tactical buck on over penetration? It is a very excellent round for people, but how bout in an appt complex?
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 5:11:41 PM EST
Whatever gun your sis gets, make double sure that she gets some real heavy duty training. A man in Houston recently killed his 18 year old son by mistake who was home doing his laundary, but the dad didn't know it at the time.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 5:12:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By bgenlvtex:
20ga. shotgun , pump, short barrell, short (but complete) butt stock. No handguns.



+1
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 5:14:01 PM EST
Gewher 3, no substitue!

Actually, a .38 special revolver would suffice. I disagree with many about the need for top grade stuff. That's fine for gun enthusiasts, but for simple protection that's always there, a S&W .38 is a good call (just be sure to rotate the ammo).
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 5:14:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By bear3351:

Originally Posted By bgenlvtex:
20ga. shotgun , pump, short barrell, short (but complete) butt stock. No handguns.



+1



LOL that reminds me of something a buddy of mine said when it came to home defense...

"having a handgun with you at home is just so you can get to your shotgun"
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 5:19:14 PM EST
This is what the wife has.




Link Posted: 9/29/2004 5:20:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By freeride21a:

Originally Posted By bear3351:

Originally Posted By bgenlvtex:
20ga. shotgun , pump, short barrell, short (but complete) butt stock. No handguns.



+1



LOL that reminds me of something a buddy of mine said when it came to home defense...

"having a handgun with you at home is just so you can get to your shotgun"



A pump shotgun is a bad idea for a couple of reasons. With lots of pratice, you can avoid it, but newbies short stoke them while stressed. I remember back when I was a teen and trying to fit in as a country boy among my peers how badly I short stroked while dove hunting. Secondly, a low powered handgun will be much less stunning upon firing it indoors. Don't count on the adrenaline reaction to eliminate the blast. Shooting something powerful indoors is a sure way to get the flash/bang effect. She is likely not as hardcore as you are...
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 5:23:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/29/2004 5:26:05 PM EST by fritzthecat]
A nice .38+P Taurus revolver with a little bling bling for looks.






Surefire 6p for illumination.

Lots of 38 Spl hollowpoints for practice.

Under U$350 for everything.


Fritz
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 5:28:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By bear3351:
I asked my wife, and she would prefer a shotgun... You go girl!







Easy to use Highly efective in close quarters and she can keep it loaded
if there are no kids involved here.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 5:29:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/29/2004 5:33:32 PM EST by NightWatchman]
You are making a perfect choice, revolvers are simple and they point natural with huge raised sights that autos just don't have. If she needs more than 6 rounds then sombody has sent a hit squad to her house and it wouldn't matter if she had a Benelli m1 or an MP5K or a S&W wheelgun. Don't forget to take her shooting let her load, pickup and shoot it for practice.

.357 might be a bit hot for her, try her with .38 first see how she does.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 5:34:48 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 6:05:57 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 6:07:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/29/2004 6:08:55 PM EST by Carbine10]

We'll this promted me to see what Taurus has new for 2004.

They have a nice little 9mm revolver with 1.75 inch barrel, holds five rounds, weighs 22 ounces and suggested list is only 383.00

It's there new Model 905I-B1. They also have the 2 inch barrel, which is Model 905B


Model 905I-B1, 9mm Revolver, Blue Steel




Model 905I-B1, 9mm Revolver, Blue Steel

The Taurus Instant Backup Series of revolvers are the smallest full power revolvers on the market today. The dimunitive size and reliability make this the must have revolver of the 21st century. The small size makes them perfect for deep backup or lawful concealed carry - especially in the summer months when a jacket is impractical. The Taurus IB family carries the Taurus Security System and our Unlimitied Lifetime Repair Policy.
SPECIFICATIONS
Model: 905I-B1
Caliber: 9 mm
Capacity: 5
Barrel Length: 1.75"
Porting: No
Action: DA/SA
Finish: Blue Steel
Grips: Checkered Rubber
Weight: 22.2 oz.
Construction: Steel
Frame: IB
Front Sight: Fixed
Rear Sight: Fixed
Trigger Type: Smooth
Length: 6"
Width:
Height:
Rate of Twist: 1:16"
Grooves: 6
Safety: Transfer Bar
UPC: 7-25327-34227-4
Order #: 2-905011
MSRP: $383.00
Status: Available Winter
Manual: Click Here


Link Posted: 9/29/2004 6:08:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Whatever she's comfortable with, can operate easily, and shoots well with, is the gun for her. As long as it can hold 5 minutes of bad guy, it'll do.

Time to go shopping and trying out a bunch of guns.

Practice. Lots of it, with whatever she gets. I'd say it's essential to shoot a box of ammo
once a week for at least six weeks. Then she'll be familiar and comfortable with it.

CJ



Heck yes..she needs to know it inside and out.. take her shooting once the day it gets picked up.. and then out to the desert for a few hundred rounds.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 10:51:36 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 11:06:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By Troy:
Actually, I would prefer a .45APC revolver (quick to reload with moon clips) or a .41 Mag with mild loads (replicating .40S&W).


I would negative on the 41Mag, because
(1) the gun is probably too big for a woman to handle
(2) IF she is ever involved in a serious social encounter, and it has to go before a jury of her peers, the sheeple looks down on anything that has the word, "magnum" associated with it, and it would not help her case.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 11:19:23 PM EST
I recommend the pump shotgun. Just have her stay in her room and rack the slide once, let the BGs know whats up.

Intimidation is my first try, I won't hesitate to shoot someone but if you can get away with not killing someone...
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 11:20:12 PM EST
BULLSHIT there are no locatable cases where the type of ammunition makes any difference in a criminal case where it is a good shoot. If it's a bad shoot type of ammuntion really doesn't matter either. Maybe it might be an issue in a civil case, but in a good legal shoot nobody gives a shit about the ammo. "Were you trying to kill him?" "No, I ws shooting at the center of mass to stop him. That's how I was trained."

medium 3-4" revolver in 38/357 unless her hands are big enough and strong enough to go larger.

If she want's a shottie the Norinco (or whoever has it now) double that goes on sale at Big 5 is a damn good gun for the purpose WITH training. It has external hammers and a few safeties. So if it gets away from her a perp has a good chance of not getting the safeties off. BUT she does need training. Have a smith put a dead mule in it that drops the recoil way down. Plus it is fairly compact.

If her only neighbor concern is the guy downstairs, then don't sweat penetration going out, because it better be going through the guy first, which should eliminate penetraotaion as an issue.

Training Training.

She needs to decide she is willing to shoot to kill, because if she needs to use and hesitates it's a little late.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 11:25:23 PM EST
I have taught a few women to shoot, and most did better with the revolver. One said my Sig felt better in her hand, but she also did better with the revolver. You can also start her off with light loads, until she gets the hang of it.

You have to pump a shotgun, and under stress somebody who does not shoot often might not work the action. Revolvers are easier to use, if she is not going to practice often. I agree with the .357 loaded with .38+p. In the end, it is what she is most comfortable with.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 12:26:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2004 12:27:39 AM EST by chrome1]
I have taught a few Women how to shoot . The mechanics involved are pretty simple .
Stance , Grip , Aim , trigger control and breathing .

What isn't so easy is putting all this to use on a live target in a high stress situation .
This is where the statistic of people getting killed with their own gun comes from .

Your either a predator or your not . That doesn't change because you feel threatened .

It's almost impossible to simulate the stress involved with the use of deadly force .
Men & Women with a timid or fearful personalities are not good candidates for a handgun as a defensive weapon . For them I suggest barricading and a shotgun with wide spreading shot . Or at least some kind of defensive spray .

Link Posted: 9/30/2004 12:54:17 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 1:00:42 AM EST
A Barret M82 should be perfect for her.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:33:06 AM EST
38/357 wheelgun, 2-4 inch, hot loads, is a good starter. Later, if she wants to upgrade, she can look into an auto.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:40:20 AM EST
How 'bout an AR? Easy to control, easy to aim, very lethal at CQB ranges, limited overpenetration....
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:48:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By thelastgunslinger:
How 'bout an AR? Easy to control, easy to aim, very lethal at CQB ranges, limited overpenetration....



Id love to giver her an AR, but not in my state.. we have our own little awb.

Thanks for all your opinions guys.. Most likely it will be a 38/357 3-4" wheel gun. Just tryin to see what is out there.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:52:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By freeride21a:

She also said to shoot them in the leg.. I said if your gonna shoot someone in defense of your life you need to kill them, no questions about it. I said if you are not willing to do that, then you need to think about it more.



Well put, besides it'll save your butt not having to worry about that sorry sack'o'shit filing a lawsuit against you after he robs/ attempts to rob you.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 7:26:46 AM EST
A female friend of my mother got herself a Taurus revolver, but
it malfuctioned when triggering the DA too fast. As far as revolvers,
I would only trust S&W- the best seems to be a K frame with round
butt Uncle Mikes grips. She got a S&W 10 3". Its no replacement for
training but under stress she tends to forget the "front sight" mantra-
that is why she has one of those now with a nifty Lasergrip now:
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 7:41:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2004 7:45:19 AM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By freeride21a:
Multiple incedents over last month, latest one being someone trying to kick in the door when no one was home.

She only has a downstairs neighbor, but over penetration is still an issue imho... in any appt.

I am thinking a s/w, ruger, or taurus 2-4" 38spcl or 357mag she has small hands so something that is a small frame, double action, and maybe in a pretty color. Looking in the $300-$400 range.

Any thoughts, comments, suggestions?

I also like shotguns, but imho.. way to much to think about in moments of panic and fear, this is where a DA or DAO revolver comes in very handy.

I will drill her on her handgun as well, a day of fun(and serious learning) in the desert.

She also said to shoot them in the leg.. I said if your gonna shoot someone in defense of your life you need to kill them, no questions about it. I said if you are not willing to do that, then you need to think about it more. She is willing now.

I am hooking her up with a nice little 357(loaded with 38's) tonight probly, and I will go over it with her and do some small how to's tonight.

She love shooting, and I have taker her with me a few times, but not recently since she moved out about 2 years ago.



NO revolvers... Not for a new shooter anyway

WTF is this with guys reccommending wheelguns for women/new shooters?

The trigger pull is universally bad, which makes them MUCH harder to aim... Reloading under stress is a PITA, too...

Get her a nice PPK, Makarov, or at most a Browning Hi-Power.

Arcus, CZ, and such are good options too... Maybe even a HS-2000 (SA XD)...

But a gun that requires fancy widgets (or individual shell insertion) to reload, and requires a long crappy trigger pull for EVERY shot? No Way!
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 7:44:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2004 7:48:07 AM EST by ktm500]
When looking at the Ruger 357, wouldn't the ruger vaquero in 45LC have less recoil due to the mass of the gun itself?
It would also be more intimidating to be on the wrong end.

ktm500
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 7:50:14 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 7:54:37 AM EST
My wife is pretty petite and she has zero problems with limp wristing her Kahr K9. Your sister needs to be familiarized with whatever weapon she owns anyway, so limp wristing will show up pretty quickly and she will overcome it. Revolvers are harder to master because of the heavy trigger pull and generally poor sights. And Lord help her if 5 or 6 shots are not enough because she'll never be able to reload under stress.

Auto all the way - if her hands are big enough, go hi-cap 9mm !
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 7:55:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 8:03:19 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 8:16:29 AM EST
A 12 gage SxS coach gun by Stevens or Stoeger is the simplest, most reliable, most lethal weapon for a woman or newbie to use. If recoil sensitivity is an issue, use low recoil 00 buckshot.

I have dozens of firearms, but my house gun is a Stevens 311R loaded with 00 buck.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 8:35:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 8:36:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
NO revolvers... Not for a new shooter anyway

WTF is this with guys reccommending wheelguns for women/new shooters?

The trigger pull is universally bad, which makes them MUCH harder to aim... Reloading under stress is a PITA, too...

Get her a nice PPK, Makarov, or at most a Browning Hi-Power.

Arcus, CZ, and such are good options too... Maybe even a HS-2000 (SA XD)...

But a gun that requires fancy widgets (or individual shell insertion) to reload, and requires a long crappy trigger pull for EVERY shot? No Way!



The problem with your argument is that a lot of women don't have the hand strength to rack the slide on something like a PPK and other automatics. If they can't rack the slide, then limp wristing will probably also rear it's ugly head.

Depending on the revolver, the trigger pull can actually be pretty nice when shooting DA. Yeah, shooting a lot can tire your finger out pretty quick, but in a self defense situation, you're not going to shoot a couple hundred rounds...

I'd recommend a revolver. It's just the simplest FIRST pistol. Once she's comfortable and familiar with it, THEN I would give her exposure to automatics. IF she could rack the slide on a small automatic, and can understand how it works, then I'd let her get one.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 9:14:21 AM EST
You thought about the Springfield Armory XD? Pretty inexpensive and reliable from what I have read about it. Just a suggestion.
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