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Posted: 7/31/2002 3:11:30 AM EST
Driver wounded in shootout By DANNY PEREZ Copyright 2002 Houston Chronicle A driver was wounded during a road rage shootout in southeast Houston on Tuesday night. John Hart, 41, of Friendswood was southbound on the Gulf Freeway about 9:30 p.m. when a white Ford F150 pulled along the passenger side of Hart's Ford Excursion and the driver made "obscene gestures." He then shot at Hart and his family, returning from the Galleria. There was a bullet hole on the right front door and its glass was shot out. Hart returned fire before exiting the freeway, but the family could not get the other vehicle's license plate number. Hart's wife, Kathy, sitting in the passenger seat, said the gunman was an African-American about 35 to 40.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 3:15:05 AM EST
I like that, [b]the fellow returned fire![/b] Only in Texas, baby, only in Texas! [:D] Eric The(IKeepThreeLoadedMagsInGloveBoxForJustSuch­RoadEmergencies)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 3:16:28 AM EST
Yes, but here is the best part...
Hart returned fire before exiting the freeway,
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Bet Mister Road Rager wasn't expecting that! [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/biggrin2.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 3:24:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By JPPJ: Hart returned fire .....
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[:D]
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:25:30 AM EST
So who was wounded, Hart or the asshole? Hopefully the latter.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:29:40 AM EST
There have been several incidents lately of even just random freeway shootings, people getting shot for seemingly no reason at all. I have gotten in the habit of carrying my carry weapon in my lap whenever I am on the freeways down there. Atta boy for returning fire. If we could get more of that it might make some of these scrots think twice before pulling their "gat".
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:30:51 AM EST
Here's the link:[url]www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/metropolitan/1515379[/url] John Hart was the wounded one. According to the story, he returned fire "but missed."[:(]
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:41:39 AM EST
And people ask me why I carry and have my .45 where I can reach it easily when driving in Houston....... Scary.....my parent's live over that way....
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:45:28 AM EST
YEEEEEE HAW!!! ONLY IN TEXAS!! He returned fire before exiting. Sounds like a Texan to me!
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:47:32 AM EST
Unfortunately, I must retract my previous "atta boy". I probably would have done the same thing but he really should have concentrated on getting the license plate over shooting back, IMHO. His #1 priority should have been getting his family out of harm's way, followed by getting the tag, followed by returnig fire. Possibly combining the last two. I know, however, that in the heat of the moment things don't always work out rationally. Too bad he missed, though. The most beautiful fantasy would have been all five occupents opening up, the youngins drilling the dirtbag's truck full of .22 holes.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 6:31:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By ArmedAggie: Unfortunately, I must retract my previous "atta boy". I probably would have done the same thing but he really should have concentrated on getting the license plate over shooting back, IMHO. His #1 priority should have been getting his family out of harm's way,
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In my estimation, the FASTEST way to get your family out of harms way IS returning fire. Criminals don't like when you shoot back. They REALLY don't like that.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 6:53:37 AM EST
Garandman, I guess I would agree to some extent but I'm not sure I would be willing to test the theory with my family in the car. It seemed as though the opportunity had presented itself to pull over or slow quickly as the dirtbag seemed to be hauling ass. Be prepared to return fire, sure, but don't go looking, or pursue, a fight. That's just my view. If the bad guy is willing to crank off rounds in broad daylight in heavy traffic he could just be one of the ones who doesn't mind going the distance to kill your ass. Your entire family could end up being the bonus plan.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 6:59:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By ArmedAggie: Garandman, I guess I would agree to some extent but I'm not sure I would be willing to test the theory with my family in the car. It seemed as though the opportunity had presented itself to pull over or slow quickly as the dirtbag seemed to be hauling ass. Be prepared to return fire, sure, but don't go looking, or pursue, a fight. That's just my view. If the bad guy is willing to crank off rounds in broad daylight in heavy traffic he could just be one of the ones who doesn't mind going the distance to kill your ass. Your entire family could end up being the bonus plan.
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your dilemma is easily solved by having the wife shoot back and the driver (presumably Mr. Hart) get the license plate number. thus stressing the importance of making sure the significant other is fully capable [b]and comfortable[/b] with firearms. my significant other would HAVE to be a gun nut. thank goodness for matt.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 7:00:04 AM EST
Set the controls to the heart of the sun...
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 7:02:16 AM EST
The biggest problem I see here is that it's very difficult to fire left handed out of a car window as it is. Add that to the fact that you can't acquire a decent sight picture with your arm sticking out the window. It definitely makes the case for a pistol-mounted laser. I am quite proficient at hitting my target by firing out of my car window, but then living in Memphis I've had plenty of practice.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 7:07:59 AM EST
You all are missing the obvious[thinking] If the unwashed populace hadn't been granted the privilege of carrying evil weapons by evil Republicans, none of this sad event would have happened!!! Guns in private ownership are bad, m-kay! Guns kill people, m-kay! Oh, the inhumanity of man [chainsawkill] Can't we all just get along?
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 7:09:26 AM EST
Is John Hart going to get charged with anything? I hope that he doesn't but it seems to me they would try to bust him for firing back when he could have just exited without returning fire. That's what would happen here anyway. Maybe things are diff/better in TX. Anyway, way to keep the badguys in line down there![50]
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 7:14:15 AM EST
i wish the artical said "hart returned fire with a 40 mm grenade launcher"
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 7:15:30 AM EST
He had purposed in his heart that if anyone shoots at me- I'm shooting back; thusly the shoot back response is automatic. If he gets the hit- plate number is a moot point. Not every dark skinned bad guy is afro-amer- could have been a black muslim terrorist or Saudi mole. :-) By the way- we shoot back in backwoods NY too!
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 7:36:50 AM EST
"Sir, they're shooting at us!" "Well, shoot back, dumbass!"
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 7:38:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By ken_mays: The biggest problem I see here is that it's very difficult to fire left handed out of a car window as it is.
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May not have been left-handed. According to the article, the attacker fired through the passenger-side window. Hart was hit in the right side.
Originally Posted By ArmedAggie: Garandman, I guess I would agree to some extent but I'm not sure I would be willing to test the theory with my family in the car. It seemed as though the opportunity had presented itself to pull over or slow quickly as the dirtbag seemed to be hauling ass. Be prepared to return fire, sure, but don't go looking, or pursue, a fight. That's just my view. If the bad guy is willing to crank off rounds in broad daylight in heavy traffic he could just be one of the ones who doesn't mind going the distance to kill your ass. Your entire family could end up being the bonus plan.
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He had two choices in avoiding harm: remove his family from the harm or remove the harm from his family. Hard to tell which was the "best" decision without being where he was and knowing all the conditions. I would say that he did what he felt necessary to protect his family given the situation. I am glad to see that he was prepared to do so.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 7:59:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By ArmedAggie: Garandman, I guess I would agree to some extent but I'm not sure I would be willing to test the theory with my family in the car. It seemed as though the opportunity had presented itself to pull over or slow quickly as the dirtbag seemed to be hauling ass. Be prepared to return fire, sure, but don't go looking, or pursue, a fight. That's just my view. If the bad guy is willing to crank off rounds in broad daylight in heavy traffic he could just be one of the ones who doesn't mind going the distance to kill your ass. Your entire family could end up being the bonus plan.
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EVERY fraction of a second you waste in a defensive posture leaves the BG as the unopposed aggressor. He is free to continue attacking while you are running. I'm NOT saying he should go AFTER the BG driving down the road, but at the INSTANT it becomes obvious I am under attack, I am gonna launch a counter attack. If a BG comes into my house late at nite, I'm not gonna go hide somewhere, I'm gonna fight back - 180 grains at a time.. That's all I'm saying.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 8:00:45 AM EST
he should've let his wife have the AR and ride in the seat behind him...[:D]
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 8:04:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By slacko: he should've let his wife have the AR and ride in the seat behind him...[:D]
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"Here honey, hand me my AR, take the wheel and hold my beer. Watch this......" [}:D]
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 8:10:20 AM EST
Originally Posted by Garandman: EVERY fraction of a second you waste in a defensive posture leaves the BG as the unopposed aggressor. He is free to continue attacking while you are running. I'm NOT saying he should go AFTER the BG driving down the road, but at the INSTANT it becomes obvious I am under attack, I am gonna launch a counter attack. If a BG comes into my house late at nite, I'm not gonna go hide somewhere, I'm gonna fight back - 180 grains at a time.. That's all I'm saying. Originally Posted by Squib: He had two choices in avoiding harm: remove his family from the harm or remove the harm from his family. Hard to tell which was the "best" decision without being where he was and knowing all the conditions. I would say that he did what he felt necessary to protect his family given the situation.
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Pretty sure I agreed with that before it was said, somewhere up there. Obviously, I would not even take my own advice as when I drive down there I always move my pistol to a more accessible spot. I usually think, "I need to be able to shoot back." I never think, "Man, if someone shoots at me I need to make sure to get the tag number." So, I think he did what any of us here would probably do. I just wish he had gotten the tag number as well or disabled the vehicle. Or drilled the assholes' skulls.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 8:17:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By ArmedAggie: I just wish he had gotten the tag number as well or disabled the vehicle. Or drilled the assholes' skulls.
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Agreed.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 8:25:59 AM EST
Houston SUV...! [img]http://www.boners.com/content/381564.1.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 8:26:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By ken_mays: The biggest problem I see here is that it's very difficult to fire left handed out of a car window as it is. Add that to the fact that you can't acquire a decent sight picture with your arm sticking out the window. It definitely makes the case for a pistol-mounted laser. I am quite proficient at hitting my target by firing out of my car window, but then living in Memphis I've had plenty of practice.
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We do have our share o' drive bys here. I prefer to stop first though. [x]
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 8:35:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/31/2002 8:40:55 AM EST by GodBlessTexas]
Originally Posted By platform389: Yes, but here is the best part...
Hart returned fire before exiting the freeway,
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Bet Mister Road Rager wasn't expecting that! [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/biggrin2.gif[/img]
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He damn sure should have! Honestly, I'm not sure if this sounds like road rage at all. We've certainly had night time shootings like this happen before on that freeway, but all the previous ones have been fatal with no witnesses that I can remember off the top of my head. There are also two girls who went missing after their cars stalled on that freeway that still haven't been found after several years. I used to live and work down there in the Clear Lake/Friendswood area, and my fiance used to travel down that way often to visit me. I was constantly worried about her safety. One night coming back from the Galleria, which is the fancy high dollar mall on the West side of Houston, we had a carload of young hispanic kids pull up beside us on I-45 just north of Gulfgate, lean out their window, and act like they were going to pull guns. By this, I mean they had their hands and looked like they were reaching down for something below the line of sight of the door and were making gestures, some obscene, at us as they tailed us. Since no one was behind me I swerved into their lane, which caused them to head back into their car, slammed on the brakes and took the exit, while Melissa got their license plate number. We reported it to the cops, but I never was told if anything came of it. Most likely the car was stolen. Now, my "spider sense" goes off anytime someone paces me like that. You're either in front of me, behind me, or it's rush hour. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 9:32:19 AM EST
A friend of mine from school was driving down Telephone rd (near that area)...he and his wife in the front seat, their son (an infant), in the back. Two hispanic males in a van cut him off. He made the fatal mistake of honking the horn. They pulled along side him and shot him through the throat. He was able to pull into a convenience store parking lot to die in front of his wife. 1978....guess it hasn't changed much.... Don't start a fight, be tolerant, but if they threaten, take care of business, either by leaving to save your family and self or by killing the p.o.s. Just sad.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 9:49:25 AM EST
Anybody ready to get together Friday night to drive around Ho-town honking at shitheads? Maybe hit the horse races if nothing develops?
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 10:11:35 AM EST
ArmedAggie, Well, the problem in Houston is you would never let off the damn horn. Lots of people jammed in here. But seriously, my CHL instructors words keep coming back to me when some shithead cuts me off in traffic and I want to hit the horn. "Don't start a fight. You now carry a weapon that can take a life. If you start the fight, you will be considered the aggressor..basically, just don't start it, cause you sure as hell can finish it if you're packing" So I drive and try my best not to honk at the idiots....or curse at em or whatever...it's not easy...... Cheers
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 10:33:52 AM EST
My wife and I were heading to our home in North Houston a few weeks ago about 9pm when a pickup truck came speeding up behind us. I was in the inside lane running about 70 mph. As fast as I could move out his way he came zipping by. He actually swerved toward us as he passed. I hit the high beams to get a better look. This must have pissed the guy off. He came to a sudden stop right in the middle of hwy59. I stopped about 30 yards back. He did this stop and go thing a couple of times. I told the wife to call 911 on the cell. The operator ask for a license number and description along with my phone number but I was'nt about to get close to this guy. He happen to take the same exit that we take so I followed onto the feeder road. He then slows again and finally returns to hwy 59. I now think he was using the exit as a ploy to get in behind us(hoping we would stay on the freeway). Lessons learned: 1. When the 911 operator ask for my phone number I gave my home number. (one of those heat of the moment things)When we got home the dispatched cop had left a message on the machine. Had I given a cell number he could have called us directly and got vectored in to where we were. 2. Ignor the idiots. Especially when with your family. (hitting the high beams) 3. Spend the $100 or so on the concealed handgun course. That was the most scared I have been in a long time.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 10:37:50 AM EST
You're right, COZ, just daydreaming. I live north of Houston but I come down there quite a bit. Unfortunately, there's no way for us to reap the benefit of our CHL without getting nailed to the wall. The only true benefit is we will still be alive to take the nailing.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 10:41:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By squid56: My wife and I were heading to our home in North Houston a few weeks ago about 9pm when a pickup truck came speeding up behind us. I was in the inside lane running about 70 mph. As fast as I could move out his way he came zipping by. He actually swerved toward us as he passed. I hit the high beams to get a better look. This must have pissed the guy off. He came to a sudden stop right in the middle of hwy59. I stopped about 30 yards back. He did this stop and go thing a couple of times. I told the wife to call 911 on the cell. The operator ask for a license number and description along with my phone number but I was'nt about to get close to this guy. He happen to take the same exit that we take so I followed onto the feeder road. He then slows again and finally returns to hwy 59. I now think he was using the exit as a ploy to get in behind us(hoping we would stay on the freeway). Lessons learned: 1. When the 911 operator ask for my phone number I gave my home number. (one of those heat of the moment things)When we got home the dispatched cop had left a message on the machine. Had I given a cell number he could have called us directly and got vectored in to where we were. 2. Ignor the idiots. Especially when with your family. (hitting the high beams) 3. Spend the $100 or so on the concealed handgun course. That was the most scared I have been in a long time.
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Do you live out Kingwood way? That's my area.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 10:43:21 AM EST
What no police there to serve and protect. What are we paying our taxes for. ...a comment from our liberal friends.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 10:48:48 AM EST
I learned a long time ago not to be constrained by what you see ,that goes for driving and shooting,the point i am trying to make is that if you have something happen when you are driving ,don't just go by curbs and yellow lines ,use yards sidewalks or whatever you have to,to many poeple are taught to stay wihtin the lines and they even do that in an emergency,use all open space to your advantage,and as far as shooting left handed out the window,screw that ,shoot with your strong hand right through the windshield,it works.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 11:12:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By jrzy: I learned a long time ago not to be constrained by what you see ,that goes for driving and shooting,the point i am trying to make is that if you have something happen when you are driving ,don't just go by curbs and yellow lines ,use yards sidewalks or whatever you have to,to many poeple are taught to stay wihtin the lines and they even do that in an emergency,use all open space to your advantage,and as far as shooting left handed out the window,screw that ,shoot with your strong hand right through the windshield,it works.
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In other words drive like one of our BIG ASS SUV Texas soccer moms.[:D]
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 11:15:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By jrzy: shoot with your strong hand right through the windshield,it works.
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It works REAL well...to explode your ear drums. Never fire a gun inside the cabin of a vehicle, never mind a moving vehicle.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 11:17:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By Gunner1X: In other words drive like one of our BIG ASS SUV Texas soccer moms.[:D]
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[size=6]Yep,you got them there to?[/size=6]
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 1:06:59 PM EST
I'm with Garandman on firing inside the vehicle...at least open a window... And YES, I drive an Ford Expedition.....if an Excursion would fit in my garage and allow my bride to park in there too, I would have bought it.... However, sometimes we drive around in her RAV4 and people treat me like I don't exist in the little bitty SUV.....definitely noticeable.... I think avoiding the fight is the right way to go..now if you find yourself with some a-hole pointing a gun at u, evade and attack....I think I would have returned fire too.....
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 7:56:51 PM EST
Sounds like a right friendly place you got there.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 8:39:24 PM EST
he should've let his wife have the AR and ride in the seat behind him...
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Or just let Junior take care of things: "OK, boy, score a bulls eye, and we're all going to Chuck E. Cheese's tonight!"
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 8:39:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By TXSunDvl: Do you live out Kingwood way? That's my area.
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I do, as do a few others, but I'll let them give that info out. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 8:42:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By JoeMike98: What no police there to serve and protect. What are we paying our taxes for. ...a comment from our liberal friends.
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If they think it's bad now, just wait until a large chunk of HPD is eligible for retirement in the next two years. Next year will be bad, and year after that will be even worse, as they're not making any attempts to start recruiting new officers. If you live in the Houston and surrounding areas and don't have your CHL by now, you damn sure better get it. It could save your life. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 8:42:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: I like that, [b]the fellow returned fire![/b] Only in Texas, baby, only in Texas! [:D] Eric The(IKeepThreeLoadedMagsInGloveBoxForJustSuch­RoadEmergencies)Hun[>]:)]
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i bet that bad guy wasnt expecting a family man to be able to return fire! take that !!!!!!! ahahahaha.....praying 4 the family too. GO dude who returned fire !!! 3 cheerse for you.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 8:43:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By garandman:
Originally Posted By slacko: he should've let his wife have the AR and ride in the seat behind him...[:D]
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"Here honey, hand me my AR, take the wheel and hold my beer. Watch this......" [}:D]
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LMAO
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 8:45:29 PM EST
pulled along the passenger side of Hart's Ford Excursion and the driver made "obscene gestures." He then shot at......
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Originally Posted By JPPJ: Hart's wife, Kathy, sitting in the passenger seat, said the gunman was an African-American about 35 to 40.
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I wonder if Hart had a CBF displayed in the rear view window? [:D] [img]http://www.asahi-kasei.co.jp/lastan/photo/b-photo2.jpg[/img] [size=1]flame suit on[/size=1]
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 8:48:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By Rabon: Sounds like a right friendly place you got there.
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Every city in America has it's bad neighborhoods and ghettos. Unfortunately the area from just south of Downtown all the way to Beltway 8/Sam Houston Tollway on I-45 is one bad area. Friendswood, where this incident happened, and Clear Lake, which is to the east of it, are upscale areas. Johnson Space Center is located in CL. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 9:00:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By Noname: Houston SUV...! [img]http://www.boners.com/content/381564.1.jpg[/img]
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BAN HOUSTON SUVs for the children!
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 9:13:06 PM EST
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