After 2 and a half years she said she if fed up with me.  She said that she doesn't like my hunting/fishing/shooting/golfing hobbies.  She pulled the "if you really love me, sell your guns" thing on me last night.  She says that she wants me to sell of all my guns to buy HER new expensive camras so we can "hunt" wildlife together without killing them.  She has apparently been pissed off with me for some time because she already has a lawyer and on separate bank account that she has been stashing money in.  Anyone have any advice?

did you have the guns first?

all but 1

Follow her lead.
Get your own account, and quit filling the joint one.

If you have any thing that's "illegal", make it vanish.

[size=3]cancel all the credit cards[/size=3]

Well hiding assets now is too late. All I can say is that I hope you guys don't have kids.

If I were in your shoes, I would try the following:

Counseling and see if you guys can come to a compromise.
If you can do without her, make it a clean break and move on. ( if kids are involved, seek counseling)

Do you have kids?

If not, it will make things a whole lot easier!!

she wants me to go to counseling because she thinks that hunting is moraly wrong and only "sick" individuals do it.  I just recently got into varmit hunting where I don't eat what I shoot and she thinks that I like killing things. (only wild animals) btw no kids

I'm really sorry to hear of your trouble with the wife.  The only advice I would offer is that you two really need to sit down and discuss your marriage... on one had you say she's fed up with you and wants you to sell all your guns.  Then I got the impression that IF you do sell your guns, everything will be alright?

I was about to ask you, just how serious was her threat of divorce... but then you said she's already got a lawyer and a separate bank account.

It sounds to me like it isnt an idle threat, and I dont think that simply selling your guns and buying her expensive cameras will save your marriage.

I think that maybe there's more beneath the surface... that's none of my business and is soley between you and your wife.

I'm just saying that I think you two really need to sit down and talk about saving your marriage... maybe see a marriage couseler?  If selling your guns is part of that salvation, that's great and so be it if that's what is important to you.  

Not trying to be a pesimist, but if you can, try and sell your guns to a friend who might sell them back to you in case things dont work out the way you want.

How do you feel about possibly saving your marriage... is this something you want, or are you ready to divorce her?

M.

She has only let you buy ONE gun in 2.5 years???? You married a tyrant!!!!!!!!

Seriously, try to work it out. Too many people cut and run WAY too early. (that includes her apparently)

Make some concessions if possible, but don't try to fake being something you are not.

Assess her willingness to make concessions if you do. If she IS willing, then you've got a basis on which to proceed.

If she will NOT, then you've got a problem.

Counselling is a good idea. IMO, make sure it is Biblically based counselling, if you consider yourself a Christian. Christians go to God, and not to men, for answers.

The Bible even says if she is unwilling to work thru difficulties, let her go. People differ on whether re-marriage to someone else is then a viable option for you.

Pray.

When all else fails, read the directions - The Bible.

...just one Bible-thumpers opinion....

I would also look up a lawyer to protect your interests also.  Here in Calif., it is a community property state, you and her own everything 50/50 so she can't squirrel money in another acct and call it all hers.  I hope you can work things out with her and patch things up.

Most of my guns have been handed down from my dad this ONE of the reasons I won't sell them.  I would never ask my wife to give up hobbies tha she loves under the idea that if she won't then she doesn't love me.  If I couldn't be outside hunting/fishing/golfing then I would be misserable.  She new about my hobbies when we got married now I feel she wants to change me to be a more cultured man.

Watch your credit cards!  You could be responsible for any debts she runs up in your name.  Cap the limits NOW!

Dude I don't know what your relationship situtation is, but I would sit her down and explain you passion for hunting in detail. If she still does not understand then I guess it becomes a case of irreconcilable differences. Sometimes you have to acknowledge and move on. But before you do, exhaust all your options. At least that's what I would do. I have been raised in a Catholic family. My father had extra marital affairs, but she and my mother worked it out. They celebrated over 50 yrs of marriage bliss before my dad passed away. So that gives you a bit of an understanding on my views when it comes to marriage.

I too agree with kramrd.

The "sell your guns" thing sounds like a ploy.

Compare that with "If you buy me a new Mustang GT I will love you forever." [rolleyes]

Sounds more like a corporation than a marriage.

I too think there is something deeper, beneath the surface that needs to be explored.

How many hours a day do you work and for how many days a week?

How much time do you spend on average shooting/hunting/fishing/golfing per week?

How much do you spend with your wife?

Your wife may be lashing out at your hobbies, but what she's probably trying to say is you're spending too much time doing things she doesn't necessarily approve of and she's tired of being ignored.  If that's the case, get your wife into your hobbies and get into some of hers.  She obviously knew you had guns and were an outdoors type before you got married and it couldn't have bothered her too much if she went through with it.  This ultimatum is a sign of a deeper problem.

If she wants you to go nature photographing with her, then tell her that's fine.  But she'll need to go participate in one of your hobbies as well.  Find ways to do what you both enjoy and spend time with each other.  If you do these things to get away from each other, then you have severe problems that I doubt are going to be fixed.

Also inform her that hunting varmints is pest control.  Most women just see cute animals.  My wife, who is pro-gun, still gets mad at me when I tell her about having to shoot rabbits in my father's garden.  All she sees is someone who shot cute fuzzy bunnies, while I was just protecting our main food source.

God Bless Texas

Hey that's a very good point. Have you looked into this?

Ask her to give up all her hobbies, and tell her that if she loves you, she'd do it.

Find a good book on wildlife management and what happens when critters are left to breed themselves into starvation.

If that should fail, you should bail. If you have a close relative or friend who can take your guns for a while, do it. You don't want an emerson type case where she gets a restraining order and then your guns are gone.

A friend recently went through what is happening to you now.   It got very nasty with the soon-to-be ex making numerous allegations about his “violent” propensities.   As an outside observer, my advice would be:
1. Get all of your weapons out of the house – NOW.   Have a friend with a safe lock them up.   Somewhere you do not have access without a witness.   Get an inventory.   An allegation of domestic violence, especially with a gun, has been likened to the neutron bomb of divorce.    Even when the charge has no foundation, it takes A LOT of time and money to counter.
2. Have an alternate place to go.   A friend’s spare room, an apartment, etc.   It would be best to have this at a different location from your guns.
3. Get your own lawyer.  If you have ANY skeletons in your closet, tell him/her up front.  
4. If she wants a fight, leave.   If she strikes you, call the police – IMMEDIATELY.   Unfortunately, the one who reports a problem tends to be considered the “victim”.
5. Fight the tendency to feel guilty about the problems in your marriage.   See # 3.
6. Have CASH available.   Freezing your credit cards, bank account, and such is common.
7. Let your friends be there for you.   Don’t isolate yourself.

My thoughts are with you during this trying time.

I work 5 10 hour days, however I have played golf 4 times this year fished 8 times, groundhog hunted 1, yote hunting 3 times and turkey hunted 5 times before work in the morning.  I may also note that her mother made her father give up all of his guns and hunting hobbies too, I guess we come from 2 very different backgrounds....

Stark reality post: read with caution

The hunting/fishing/shooting/golfing is part of your life, part of you.  By asking you to dump them she is asking you to change.  That is scary.
When my wife and I were married the first question our JOP asked us in our marriage interview was "If you could,  what would you change about the other person?"  He said that if either of us had something about the other we would change now is not the time for us to be married.  Marriage is joining, not compromise

If you do change there is nothing to prevent this from occurring again.  This is a very dangerous place in any marriage. I am sure you love her, but if she loved you truly she would never ask you to sell them, etc.  There are a lot of things you can do to increase your together-time, but compromising your life is not a piece in play.

The preliminary steps she has taken indicate a more devious nature and a copromise of trust on her part.  If you continue you are at a disadvantage and will eventually be unhappy.

Honestly, the matter is clear.   She drops her charge to you, loves you for who you are or it is over, just a matter of when.  If so, buy sell, trade you guns, tools, etc to your friends and fam before a freeze of assets to keep them out of a divorce.  

FWIW,

Zaz

You need to talk to a VA divorce attorney. Stuff you had before you got married is different than stuff you obtained while married in Va.

VTHokieShooter -

Sorry to hear about your troubles.  I think you have gotten some solid advice here, and there's not much I can add.  

If there is anything we Virginians can do to assist, please let us know - even if that just means getting out of the house for a while.  I don't know if you're still in Blacksburg, but we're not far away.

    Black Fox

Do yo uhave someone that you can trust with your guns? If so. "sell" them to that person, or "gift" them(with the understanding that you WILL  get them back). Or, if yo uhave family in the area, store them there.

As far as the marriage thing, at least you don't have kids. If your wife is serious about the divorce, make sure that you let a lawyer know that all but 1 of the guns predate the marrage, and most are family heirlooms(even if the guns only started with your father), and that they cannot be sold, or divided, even if yo uhave to pay more out of pocket.
Does she work?? If so, that will have an effect on alimony, if any is ordered. Does she make more that you? If so, sue her for alimony. If not, try to agree on an amount in the divorce order.

I sounds like she is a controling woman.

But if yo uthink that you can work it out, by all means, try.

[smoke]

Edited to add.. if she doesn't like ANY of your hobbies, SHE is the problem.

May I suggest "Before a Bad Goodbye" by Timothy Clinton.  It's an excellent book and I can vouch for it's effectiveness.  Seek counseling.  Really try and save your marriage before you two just simply write it off as a failed social experiment.

Remember why you married her.  Do the things for her that you did for her while courting her.  We are all on our best behavior during that time and then revert back to our "real" self once some time passes.

If you want to make it work you can.  Yes, it takes two but one of you has to be strong enough to start the process.

Blessings to you and your wife.  I pray that the two of you work out your differences.

If your wife has been PO'd at you for a long time and you didn't know about it, you have a (IMHO) hopeless communication problem.

You may have a legal issue with the money she has squirrelled away, depending on your state's laws (community property, etc.) and her income (if any) vs. yours.

If she has hired a lawyer you will need one too.  It's sad that she resorted to that strategy rather than trying to work out a better arrangement with or without you.  Or maybe she tried and you weren't listening.

Amen to what Major Murphy said about the credit cards.  Assert your rights.  It's time for suspense orders on any funds you have in joint accounts.  You don't need a lawyer to have the bank put a suspense order on these - Either accountholder can do it.  That will make two signatures required for withdrawals.

Get your paperwork together and clean up any skeletons in your closets ASAP.  It might be a good idea to relocate your most valued firearms to off-site storage in case she goes for a restraining order.

My heart bleeds for you.  It's a shame that so many people (women in particular) get into a marriage ignoring things they don't like about a person, then go about trying to make him or her change.  Love is blind AND stupid.

vth,

i thought it was interesting that she was/is willign to spend time with you photographing wildlife. if se had given up on you, im not sure shed suggest that.

is it possible she just wants to know and feel that she is more important and special to you than your hobbies?

Here is a small tidbit of advice.  I heard this from someone and it sounds good.  If you spend one hour a day working on your marriage it does more good both marriage wise and physically than an hour at the gym.
[sniper]

You'all might think I'm a newbie but I just don't post much; matter of fact my old password didn't work anymore so I had to re-apply.

VS what I'm about to tell you may seem harsh but I've been there done that.
Forget the counseling, forget the talking to her, dump her like a bad habit. All this other stuff is just touchy feely crap. Look she knew all about you before she got married, but now it's a big issue. Why now? Because in the back of her mind she thought she would be able to change you. Now I don't intend to get gross but: From the time a little girl is brought into this world all females start filling their heads with ways to CONTROL a MAN The # 1 method is sex. They are told Men cannot live without SEX. MAN will do anything as long as he gets a little SEX every so often. The # 2 method is guilt and constant nagging.The little girl hears this all the time, and sees it practiced throughout her childhood. So when they get of age they find a guy who isn't quite perfect but based on their teachings they can persuade this "not so perfect MALE" to become Perfect. All this horn dog male needs is a little convincing. Now when the Male resist, the female starts to thearten the Male with the loss of SEX. The ultimate threat is divorce when the MALE will lose all SEX with said female.And once sex doesn't work then they start the guilt and naggging stage, complaining that you aren't the same person they married.
It's all BS. She is just pi$$ed because she has been unable to change you. You haven't changed she is the one who has finally shown her true colors. Luckily no children are involved. Get OUT NOW. Unfortunately you will need an attorney. Either way you look at it, it will cost you money to get out of this bondage called marriage. Pay your dues and hopefully you will learn from your experience.
Just remember it may only cost about $35 to get into a marriage but it will cost much more to get OUT of it.
Sorry pal those are the facts. Males are hated by our touchy feely society. Just wait until you get to court and the judical system shows its hatred for the disgusting Male.
If you are ignorant enough to get married again be sure too at least get a pre marital agreement.

Went through a divorce in VA.  As stated, pre-marital property is non-negotiable unless you convert it by selling it.  The money could be considered marital property and split 50/50.

At some point in a marriage, one or both decide that the marriage is over.  Once that decision is reached, there's almost no going back.  It takes 2 to make it work and it sounds like she's already taken too much effort to end the marriage (lawyer, account) to indicate she wants to try and make it work.

Her ultimatum is just her way of trying to make it look like your fault.  "Everything would have been OK if you'd just gotten rid of the guns, and fishing equipment, and golf clubs, and so on and so on."  See where this is leading?

I feel for you, but trying to be the good-guy in these situations will just end up screwing you.  Don't ask how I know (wife ran up over $20K on credit cards in my name that I didn't even know she had).

Sometimes and ending is just really a new beginning.

[left]sounds like the old mother influencing the daughter thing. i would ask for a comprimise i want to keep my guns for a reason! just ask her if i give up the hunting part; sense this bother's you so much! but i wan't to keep my guns. if there's no comprimise there. than she's controlling you. i would seek help!
[/left]

A lot of good replies. Here is what I strongly suggest.

Go to Counseling for about 6 months to a year. During this time, cancel all credit cards except one which has a very low limit. And if she ask, just say, Oh, my dear, we need to save our money for our future. Maybe even sell the house and get an apartment.

Sell your items to a TRUSTED friend that will sell them back to you afterwards. This will show her you are serious.

The above two items would keep her off guard while you work on the remaining two items.

Opening a bank account only in your name (to start a stash of your own) is a good start, but this can be tracked and discovered. Either hide it or rent a deposit box.

Finally, (I hate to say this), but get a lawyer and start building your case.

Sure the 6 months or so of Counseling may be expensive, but could be cheaper than taken to the cleaners now. Also, maybe plan one that’s every other week or every 3rd or 4th week.

After the 6-12 months of preparation and once you are all set, meet with her best looking girlfriend, sleep with her and once she finds out, just say, "Sorry, its just not working out." and give her the divorce papers.

Cheers & Good Luck!!!

Take all the above advice, except the ones that tell you to see a counselor. Believe me its past that point. All you can intellegently do now is file against her before she files against you. Thank God you have no kids. Don't waste any time in doing this. Good Luck.

No

Dont give up on hunting.  Tell her if you give up hunting you has to give up photography.  Then explain that you love hunting as much as she loves photography.

Personal opion is that if two people arnt compatable in more than 80% of everything they are in trouble.  Also many people don't realize that love does change.  One year you may love your spose for one reason then find you no longer love that quality.  Then you need to look for somthing else.  There are to many easy outs now.  My hopes and prayers that you find a way to fix this.  If it doesn't work out then pick more carefully the next time around.

[sniper]

Man, have you thought to ask her why she didn't bring up all this bagage at the beginning of the relationship?   Perhaps when it would have impacted your decision on whether or not to propose to the woman?



Sorry but I am much like you in personal interests and hobbies, I won't back down from a life long tradition to bend to someone's desires on what is basically a whim because they don't understand and would rather have YOU change rather than try to come to an understanding themselves.



No kids?   Seriously I'd fold my cards and become a bachelor again, it is much easier to do without childeren in the picture.



Others have made excellent recommendations for if you decide to go for the split rather than work through it, which sounds sorta bleak already.



Does she honestly think that just because you sell off your guns that means you'll give up hunting?   It's simple enough to go with friends and borrow their rifles, she'd still be pissed at you for that.   NOOOOO!   She's asking you to give up all your recreational activities, for what in return?    Are you nothing more than a meal ticket, work all day and then expected to stick around the damned house all weekend on a leash?





God, it's no wonder I've held off from relationships as long as I have.

If she knew then and wants to change you now then she does not love you for who you are.  She wants you to be someone else, and that's impossible.  As sad as it is to say, you need to cut your losses immediately.  I feel that in your best interest you need to do the following things immediately, regardless if you try to work it out or not.  Many of these have already been suggested, and it's good advice.

[list]Get a lawyer.
[list]Get the guns out of the house and locked up somewhere in a safe.  You must be able to trust this person.  You do not want your gifted guns confiscated.  Most judges will file a restraining order against you as standard practice in a divorce case, at least here in Texas.
[list]Close any and all credit accounts in both names.  I know people who have had their husbands or wives charge up all the credit cards right before divorcing them and sticking them with huge credit problems.  You do not want this, as there is no legal recourse to it if you are both associated with the account.

These are things you shold do if you're going to go through with divorce.

[list]Stop depositing money into the joint bank account and start your own.  Also, keep as much cash as you can in case she has your account frozen.  The best way to do this is cash your paycheck and deposit the cash, minus your slush fund, into it.
[list]Get rid of any skeletons before she confronts you with them.  If she has no proof they existed then it's her word against yours, which is the best case scenario.
[list]Do NOT fall into the arms of another woman before you're divorced.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, and this advice is worth as much as you paid for it.

God Bless Texas

I'm a Christian, married w/ 2 kids.  I say try and work it out.

Are those of you that say "cut and run" while you can, married, single or used to be married and couldn't work it out.

Again, I'm just curious how our backgrounds might me influencing what we are telling VTHOKIESHOOTER.

If VTHOKIESHOOTER wants to make it work then he ought to seek counsel from those that have made it work not those that haven't.  What say VTHOKIESHOOTER?  Do you desire to make your marriage work?

Very Happily married.
Deeply spiritual.
Realize that asking me to change who I am can lead to asking me to change my beliefs.


Zaz

This might be great for the revenge factor, but in states with community property and alimony, you'd get screwed twice for doing it.  You never give the enemy ammunition against you.

God Bless Texas.

If things start to head in the sour direction, I would "sell" all of your toys to a trusted friend only to get back after the dust settles.  If having to sell your toys sounds bad, try having them liquidated in divorce proceedings.  Best of luck.

The most fundamental advice I can give you is to PURSUE *YOUR* VALUES and MAKE NO SACRIFICES.

If your wife is higher on your values list than your hunting/guns then sell the guns.

If your hunting/guns is higher on your values list than your wife then head for the hills.

The recommendations on this post as to credit card debt, bank accounts, etc. are all very good.  Be honest about your assets/money but be careful -- lots of good people have been fleeced and left with big debts by departing spouses.

Good luck -- let us know how this tale spins out.

- CD

Tough dilemma.

However, she is wrong about hunting, fishing and golf being the activities of the 'underclass.'  Hunting and golf originated as the sports of English and Scottish nobility, respectively.  Even in America, golf used to be the exclusive province of the rich.  It is only in recent times that they have become popular for the general public.  

Regarding your situation, it would seem that your wife is deeply entrenched in her position and it will be very difficult for things to change.  She is expecting you to make the concessions, but offer none of her own.  I was in a similar situation with my gf a little over a year ago and she chose to leave me because she felt she couldn't change me.  I would suggest exploring the notion of counseling, but also take the necessary measures to protect your assets.  Counseling may expose the root of the issues if she is willing to cooperate.  However, if you can't get through to the root cause of the problem, then your relationship was built on a false premise and cannot stand.  

May you be as lucky as Michael Vick is in avoiding defensive linemen.  Go Hokies!

Good for you!



This may sound the same, but I'm married with two kids.  I also say cut and run because he married someone who does not love him.  She loves who she thinks she can make him, and we all know that making people change is impossible if they don't want to.



I take it you've never dealt with women who believe you find a "fixer-upper?"  My wife was a manipulative guiltmonger during the first year of our marriage, and it almost caused it to end badly.  She would cry at the drop of a hat to get the advantage over me because I hate seeing women cry and immediately would comfort her and admit defeat.  It got to the point where I finally told her "If you continue to try and manipulate and change me, this marriage will not last.  I have never asked you to change anything about yourself except this, and I think we can both agree that being manipulative and controlling is not good."  She realized I was right and we've been happy ever since.  We've been together 5 years and married 4 of them.  We know that she can't change me, I can't change her, and we still love each other completely for who the other person is.  As long as we put our marriage and our children before ourselves, and consider any action's impact upon our marriage before taking it we will be in good shape.

But let's also look at the facts.  She delivered an ultimatum after getting a lawyer and putting money away.  That does not sound like the actions of someone who wants to work things out.  She's already accepted that it's going to end in divorce.  You don't get a lawyer to help you through marriage counseling.

God Bless Texas

You will get many replies depending on the replier's experience.  Mine is that she fell out of love a while back, and is just looking for excuses to get out.  Protect your self esteem and your finances at all costs.  If you grovel, she will have even less respect for you.
If she only "loves" your because you conform to her expectations, you will end up getting divorced in the end and will become even more miserable as time goes on.  Best of luck to you.

As the old German proverb says, "The apple does not fall very far from the tree." She is only doing what she was raised to do. Obviously her mother is an example to her of what to be and do. Her dad was the subject of the crusade, and now you are.

What you are and what she is as people are two totally different entities. The problem will be solved (for her) if you give up your guns. Or so she says.

What will be the next thing you have to give up? And what will she give up in return?

I'm not about to parse another man's marriage, but you must ask yourself the question: will my life be better after I do what she asks?

As the ex-wife of a good friend of mine before they got married said, "If I can't find the perfect man, I'll make one."

My wife is not pro-gun by any means, but she knows that if the guns go, I go.

And I wasn't a gun person until after we got married.

Good luck- you are going to need it.

1. send her roses
2. sell your guns, fishing rods, and golf clubs to a 'friend' for $1 IMMEDIATELY
3. buy a camera
4. enroll in counseling
5. tell her you love her more than anything else and you will give up anything for her

at the same time you better

1. get a lawyer and a good accountant (close any IRAs, 401Ks etc)
2. get a separate bank account
3. plan your exit before the ride comes to a complete stop

When all the dust is settled you can get your chit and your life back. Good Luck!

Styles - A Militia of One.

what is devorice?

JThompson has it right up to the sleeping with her best friend part.  She has obviously been planning and stacking the deck in her favor thus far, now its your turn.  Start getting paper checks instead of direct deposit and stash as much $ as you can without being obvious.

Don't get caught with your pants down!  If you want to try and work it out with her, thats great, but be smart about it.  Plan for the worst and hope for the best.  Good luck

Thanks all who have replied.  This really sucks......Ihave been unhappy for 6 months now.  Most couples won't do anything with us because we get into fights.  If I could end it now with a minimal amount of $$$ I would.  All I ask for is my truck, guns and the dog and the ability to keep my paycheck.  However the hard part would be cutting the ties with her family and friends and vice versa.  No one in my family has been devoriced and I feel they will look down on me for doing it.  A lot of what I read on this tread hits home, particulary the part about holding sex back in return for something......I though women believed that it was about love not doing it to get something in return.  I buy her flowers maybe once every six weeks but the are "only $10" flowers, therefore I guess it isn't the thought that counts only how much I spend on her.  Honestly I don't want to go to a shrink.......I hate people who tell me what kind of person I am and what I need to change.
Anyway thanks everyone, I am signing off for now but continue to post if yall have any other comments..

Ahhh what the hell.....Go Hokies!!!!!!!

I stand by what I said earlier.  Very few people know what has gone on in my marriage over the last 19 years.  Suffice it to say that we have had plenty of reasons to "cut and run" but stuck it out and we are both VERY happy that we did.  

It can be made to work even if someone tells you they don't love you any more, has asked you to move out, has retained a lawyer and has even started a relationship with someone else.  

I speak from experience.  It can be fixed if at some point both parties are willing to work it out.  Until then, only one has to try and work it out.  Fix yourself and the other will come along.

I still wonder what VTHOKIESHOOTER wants to do.

PS: I don't think anything I've said should be considered "touchy feely crap"


Edited 'cause VTHOKIESHOOTER posted again just before I posted this.

Very good advice, VT. Also, I note re-reading your original post, it seems SHE is already working with a lawyer and has set up separate accounts.

That sounds like somebody who really isn't interested in making the marriage work at all, but is working with her lawyer to get you before a judge who will look at you as some sort of wacko, uncooperative, intractable gun-crazed spouse abuser. Her only misstep has been to tell you what she is doing.

And just how do males who own guns generally fare in courts nowadays?