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Posted: 10/3/2005 12:03:00 PM EDT
I finally encountered someone who knows a retired special forces dude that can make thousand yard shots all day long with an AR. Open sights. He keeps ‘em on a dinner plate.
I asked what the drop was at that distance and the middleman telling me the tale says he doesn’t know but the guy compensates for it. He used to be a pro.

I’m pretty sure I can’t do this. I didn’t call bullshit though…I have no idea. I said, "I'd like to see that".

Comments?
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:04:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 12:09:58 PM EDT by DK-Prof]
I vote BS.

You cannot SEE a dinner-sized plate at 1000 yards with iron sights, and that level of accuracy is beyond most ARs.



(edited to fix the range - thanks PAEBR332 )
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:06:48 PM EDT
maybe, using super match ammo and a DCM type AR, aiming at a target holder that is large enough that you can line the shot up to hit the plate in the middle of it...
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:08:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
I vote BS.

You cannot SEE a dinner-sized plate at 100 yards with iron sights, and that level of accuracy is beyond most ARs.



Well I can see a dinner plate sized target at 100 yards. 1000 is a different story.

A dinner plate would require a .8 MOA rifle and ammo combination. Not many gun/ammo combos can do that. Add in the wind drift at that range and I would have to say unless this guy's name is David Tubbs he is yanking your chain.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:08:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By QuantumPion:
maybe, using super match ammo and a DCM type AR, aiming at a target holder that is large enough that you can line the shot up to hit the plate in the middle of it...



Yes, supposedly he can't see the target (like DK said) but he bases his POA off the target stand (roughly a human silhouette) and lays them down on the plate sized area.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:09:29 PM EDT
Little on a side note, Palma is shot with open sights at a 1000 yards but IIRC the bull is a tad bigger than a dinner plate. But guys like Mitch Maxberry and G. David Tubb aren't your ordinary run of the mill marksman, I do believe they could get groups with open sights better than most can with a scope.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:10:22 PM EDT
In order to shoot 1000 yards with an AR you need a fast twist barrel and it has to be able to shoot at least an 80 grain bullet if not a 90 grain. Anything less will not be supersonic at 1000 yards. Been there, done that. Not many run of the mill AR's are equipped to do this.

If he can shoot at 1000 yards and keep them "on a dinner plate" he would be a long range highpower champion. His name would ring far and wide from Camp Perry.

In addition to the rifle probably not being equipped to shoot at 1000 yards, there are not many ranges with that distance either. There are a handful of privately owned 1000 yard ranges in all of the eastern US. Even out west, there are a few, very few.


You can shoot at 1000 yards with open sights in an AR, but you need to be shooting an appropriate target. The 1000 yard NRA target has a fairly large bull, but considering wind, rifle, etc., I call bull shit on this one.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:13:52 PM EDT
What about the guy that was shooting the gong at a 1000 yds with the pistol? It was on TV, I saw it, he had time to lean over to his spot scope and watch impact. I cannot remember the kind of pitsol it was.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:15:00 PM EDT
Im hoisting the bullshit flag
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:15:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motocam25:
What about the guy that was shooting the gong at a 1000 yds with the pistol? It was on TV, I saw it, he had time to lean over to his spot scope and watch impact. I cannot remember the kind of pitsol it was.



Damn...a thousand?

I've seen Bob Mungden (sp?) lay them in from far out but I don't know about a thousand.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:17:47 PM EDT
Whos said it was to be with an AR?
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:19:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Punani:
Whos said it was to be with an AR?



The middleman relating the story to me. He said this guy he knew could do it with an AR open sights.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:20:57 PM EDT
Martin Riggs hit a man at 1000 yards in high winds.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:21:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 12:21:45 PM EDT by sgthoskins]
I'm with rebel_rifle here, it can be done with 80 gr bullets. I doubt he was shooting at dinner plates, impossible to see without optics at 1000 yards. He was probably shooting at a 1000 meter NRA target frame which is 6'X6'. There is a possibility his group might have been the size of a dinner platter. If the story is true, he left out a bunch of details.

Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:23:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sgthoskins:
I'm with rebel_rifle here, it can be done with 80 gr bullets. I doubt he was shooting at dinner plates, impossible to see without optics at 1000 yards. He was probably shooting at a 1000 meter NRA target frame which is 6'X6'. There is a possibility his group might have been the size of a dinner platter. If the story is true, he left out a bunch of details.




Well, it was second hand so there was plenty of opportunity for details to get dropped.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:25:37 PM EDT
I'm no longrange marksman, but I'd be willing to wager some pretty good sheckles on him missing a dinner plate consistantly at 1000 yds.

Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:25:39 PM EDT
sounds like BS to me
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:26:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 12:27:04 PM EDT by sgthoskins]

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

Originally Posted By sgthoskins:
I'm with rebel_rifle here, it can be done with 80 gr bullets. I doubt he was shooting at dinner plates, impossible to see without optics at 1000 yards. He was probably shooting at a 1000 meter NRA target frame which is 6'X6'. There is a possibility his group might have been the size of a dinner platter. If the story is true, he left out a bunch of details.




Well, it was second hand so there was plenty of opportunity for details to get dropped.



It's possible if he did it in the way I described. The front sight post will be larger than the 6'X6' target frame he's shooting at. If he wasn't cutting a frame in half to make the shots, I would say B.S. any other smaller target is to difficult to see to make a consistant group.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:26:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 12:27:04 PM EDT by streetfighter]
Matthew Quigley could do it (if it was a bucket shaped target)
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:28:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By streetfighter:
Matthew Quigley could do it (if it was a bucket shaped target)



Standing too!
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:28:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By afman91201:
Martin Riggs hit a man at 1000 yards in high winds.





Maybe eight or even ten guys in the world could have made that shot.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:51:14 PM EDT
I answered the poll wrong. I know people made kills beyond a thousand but I don't I am sure it was with scoped weapons. so I change my vote to BS....
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 6:56:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sgthoskins:

If he wasn't cutting a frame in half to make the shots, I would say B.S. any other smaller target is to difficult to see to make a consistant group.




+1

The Marines used to use the 600 yard line for their matches & these were the best rifle shots the Corps had in the ranks. I would doubt anyone could keep more than a few shots on a fullsized target frame, let alone a taget @ 1000 yards with a .223.

My .o2
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 7:04:18 PM EDT
Considering that Palma shooters using precision single-shot .308 bolt-action rifles and VERY intricate iron sights can't do that. I call B.S.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 7:07:55 PM EDT
wow, record range for a rifle kill is I think around 1200 yards by a canadian soldier with a 50 BMG, using america ammo he traded for.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 7:09:28 PM EDT
hahahahaha
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 7:10:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vengarr:
wow, record range for a rifle kill is I think around 1200 yards by a canadian soldier with a 50 BMG, using america ammo he traded for.

2430 meters, using a McMillan bolt rifle. They're more accurate than the Barrett semi-autos. See here.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 7:10:30 PM EDT
... "All Day Long"?
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 7:12:17 PM EDT
BS.

The front site post is about 15 feet wide out at 1000 yards
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 7:12:19 PM EDT
I met that guy too. Which gun show did you encounter him at?

Link Posted: 10/3/2005 7:12:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vengarr:
wow, record range for a rifle kill is I think around 1200 yards by a canadian soldier with a 50 BMG, using america ammo he traded for.



2500 METERS. A little over 2 miles, IIRC.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 7:15:09 PM EDT
Jesus, how is that possible?
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 7:15:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 7:15:58 PM EDT by Sigurd]

Originally Posted By rebel_rifle:
There are a handful of privately owned 1000 yard ranges in all of the eastern US. Even out west, there are a few, very few.





There's one right here in my hometown of ~125K people. They're not that uncommon out West
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 7:20:35 PM EDT
1600m = 1 mile. a little less than 2 miles.

Around 1.5 miles.

FREE



Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By vengarr:
wow, record range for a rifle kill is I think around 1200 yards by a canadian soldier with a 50 BMG, using america ammo he traded for.



2500 METERS. A little over 2 miles, IIRC.

Link Posted: 10/3/2005 7:23:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 7:24:20 PM EDT by home_with_kids]
I'd bet an M1 Tank gunner can do it. Course you'd need a gas spectrometer to identify the dinner plate.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 7:26:08 PM EDT
Sure it wasn't 1000 feet?
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 7:28:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By napalm:

Originally Posted By afman91201:
Martin Riggs hit a man at 1000 yards in high winds.





Maybe eight or even ten guys in the world could have made that shot.





it was the only thing he was ever really good at.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 7:30:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
I vote BS.

You cannot SEE a dinner-sized plate at 1000 yards with iron sights, a




+1
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 7:35:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 7:43:53 PM EDT by MonkTx]
So, is he shooting a plate sized target at a thousand or a LR target and getiing plate sized groups? There are plenty of people that can shoot a clean on a LR target, I don't know about cleaning the X-ring though.


I can usually keep all of my shots on the target at 1000 with my AR( in light steady wind conditions), but I'm getting a lot more 6's and 7's than 9's, 10's and X's.


Whoever said the front sight covers 15' at 1000yds is on crack, my front sight is just a hair wider than the aiming black on an LR target which is 44" across.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 7:35:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
I vote BS.

You cannot SEE a dinner-sized plate at 1000 yards with iron sights, a




+1



I bet that Imbroglio can not only see a dinner plate at 1,000 yards,but snake out his tounge and lick it clean!!!!!!!!!


Bob
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 8:19:22 PM EDT
The guy's full of garbage.

NO ONE can keep rounds from any rifle consistently in the 10 ring, much less a dinner plate size target, at 1000 yds all day (well, except for maybe some top bench resters). Not even David Tubb or any of the hallowed names at Perry. The Long Range Highpower rifle scores will prove that to you.

IIRC, the AMU used to do pretty well at 1000yd. with match ARs.

If anyone brags about this, ask him:

- what kind of barrel he has on his AR
- what weight bullet he uses
- how many clicks does he use on the rear sight to hit at 1000yd.

If he doesn't know or if he gives BS answers ("American eagle 55gr with a Model 1 sales upper"), he's full of garbage.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 8:29:46 PM EDT
if you go to the shiloh sharps site (made the quigly 45/110 for the movie) there is a long list of shots made with various versions of their rifles.

one is a 12 year old boy, 1200 yards, one shot, one dead small female buffalo. i think a 45/70. i think ladder sights.

personally i wonder though.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 10:47:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FREEFALLE7:
1600m = 1 mile. a little less than 2 miles.

Around 1.5 miles.

FREE



Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By vengarr:
wow, record range for a rifle kill is I think around 1200 yards by a canadian soldier with a 50 BMG, using america ammo he traded for.



2500 METERS. A little over 2 miles, IIRC.




My brain is dead tonight, thanks for the correction. .62 mi per 1000m, 1760 yards is one mile, etc.

Still a long ass distance.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 10:49:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By st0newall:
if you go to the shiloh sharps site (made the quigly 45/110 for the movie) there is a long list of shots made with various versions of their rifles.

one is a 12 year old boy, 1200 yards, one shot, one dead small female buffalo. i think a 45/70. i think ladder sights.

personally i wonder though.



Billy Dixon, Adobe Walls--dead indian at 1500 yards. Or so they say.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 11:07:33 PM EDT
Did he say he had a gun company making HK clones?
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 12:12:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2005 12:13:10 AM EDT by 22bad]
Tell him you'd like to videotape him doing that to shut up all the people that say he is just making it up
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 4:47:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sigurd:

Originally Posted By rebel_rifle:
There are a handful of privately owned 1000 yard ranges in all of the eastern US. Even out west, there are a few, very few.





There's one right here in my hometown of ~125K people. They're not that uncommon out West




Okay, you named one. I know there is one at Raton on the NRA range. Many of the army ranges have thousand yard lines, but these are only open on match days or off limits entirely to the public.
If there are others, name them.

Privately owned 1000 yard ranges are not that common. In the entire state of TN there are only 2. One is private and the other is on AEDC, a govt. facility. Even out west, they are not that common.

One other thing about this guys "feat". He must be one hell of a wind doper in order to consistantly hit a "dinner plate" at 1000 yards. Even the least little bit of wind plays hell with your bullet at that range.

Again, I call on this guy.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 4:51:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2005 4:52:15 AM EDT by Gunner1X]
BS! I shoot 1000 yards on a regular basis and I can tell you that a diner plate cannot be seen at that
distance without glass.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 4:56:30 AM EDT
I'll just say this -

I've heard WAY too many people brag about their shooting abilities.

Like their production AR15 can regularly shoot sub-MOA with milsurp ammo.

Yeah, right.

Link Posted: 10/4/2005 5:24:52 AM EDT
I know one guy that posts here that can do it using NRA Highpower targets, his handle is x-man.

I suspect "ardvark" can do it too.

I can only do it using my scoped 24" CR6724 AR, in "good" air or my custom Rem 700, 30-06, (it too is scoped).

Mike

ps - btw, yes, I have access to a 1150 yard "private" range, located in Lufkin, Tx.

Link Posted: 10/4/2005 5:34:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2005 5:35:58 AM EDT by BigTater]
I worked with a guy that was with the army markmanship team back in the late 70's early 80's. They used a modifed m-14 out to 1000 yards. The front sight does cover the target stand and they wore heavy leather shooting jackets, but he did say they could put their shots dam near where they wanted to at that range and I do believe him.
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