www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/09/05/wosse705.xml



   

Cleric supports targeting children
By Rajeev Syal
(Filed: 05/09/2004)


An extremist Islamic cleric based in Britain said yesterday that he would support hostage-taking at British schools if carried out by terrorists with a just cause.

 

Omar Bakri Mohammed, the spiritual leader of the extremist sect al-Muhajiroun, said that holding women and children hostage would be a reasonable course of action for a Muslim who has suffered under British rule.

In an interview with The Sunday Telegraph, Mr Mohammed said: "If an Iraqi Muslim carried out an attack like that in Britain, it would be justified because Britain has carried out acts of terrorism in Iraq.

"As long as the Iraqi did not deliberately kill women and children, and they were killed in the crossfire, that would be okay."

Mr Mohammed, 44, who lives in Edmonton, north London, but is originally from Syria, also claimed that the Chechen rebels were not responsible for the deaths of more than 350 people - at least half of them children - who are so far known to have died in Beslan.

"The Mujahideen [Chechen rebels] would not have wanted to kill those people, because it is strictly forbidden as a Muslim to deliberately kill women and children. It is the fault of the Russians," he said.

The father of seven came to Britain in 1985 after being deported from Saudi Arabia because of his membership of a banned group. He has since been given leave by the Home Office to remain in Britain for five years but the Government is reviewing his status.

He gave an interview yesterday to promote a "celebratory" conference in London next Saturday to commemorate the third anniversary of the September 11 attacks.

Andrew Dismore, the Labour MP for Hendon, was infuriated by Mr Mohammed's comments. "That sounds to me like incitement and I will report him to Scotland Yard," he said. "It is an insult to most moderate Muslims, who are sick of people like this claiming to represent them."

May a thousand pig shits be upon him.

Inflammatory lies spread by bigots & haters. Islam is a religion of peace & everyone with eyes knows this!!!

People, we really need to stop slandering the good name & reputation of our Muslin brothers.  

Peace for Muslims only.

Bilster

"The Mujahideen [Chechen rebels] would not have wanted to kill those people, because it is strictly forbidden as a Muslim to deliberately kill women and children. It is the fault of the Russians," he said.

Yeah, but taking kids hostage for days, not feeding them or giving them water, which would have killed them, is OK?    

Fucking hypocrites.   Two solutions for them

one is 7.62mm
the other 5.56mm

Actually Matt, there is a better solution...  Fuel-Air Explosives

Play the video in the link and dream!

Quoted: "The Mujahideen [Chechen rebels] would not have wanted to kill those people, because it is strictly forbidden as a Muslim to deliberately kill women and children. It is the fault of the Russians," he said. Yeah, but taking kids hostage for days, not feeding them or giving them water, which would have killed them, is OK?     Fucking hypocrites.   Two solutions for them one is 7.62mm the other 5.56mm

You forgot the JDAM option.

The peaceful views of yet another muslim cleric....

I was expecting another after-action picture thread......

PLEASE.......Whatever you do, please do not say anything to hurt the muslim cockroaches feelings.
And certainly don't insult their manner of dress.
We must be sensative to our enemy that wants all of us dead.

Ah, good ole Islam, the religon of piece and ignorant, low life, hypocrites

The sooner the rest of the world realizes this is a religous war the sooner we can get it over with.

See! Thats what I pointed out in that other thread about these guys. They DONT APOLOGIZE!!!!

Remember, these guys are clerics, the people who ADVISE/LEAD your average peace loving killermuslim.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=270848

WWJDAMD

Im not a religion expert, so I am asking a question for real, life long muslim members of this board.

True or false, to subscribe to Islam is to  beleive that no other religions on the planet should be honored and that people who cannot be converted to Islam should be cast aside from society?

To clarify...my understanding is... the only religion should be Islam, all laws, public culture, and moral codes should be based on Islam, and anyone that doesnt hold the same belief should not be permitted to be a part of society.

Is this accurate? What am I missing?

Assuming that this is a true statement, would I be wrong in concluding that Islam is a seperatist, exclusive, cult?

Please dont anyone think I am bashing a religion - Im simply asking about one that seems to evade the parameter of common decency. For the record, Im agnostic and have no tie to Christianity or Judaism. From where I stand, of the three, one of these kids is not like the other.

Just looking for some confirmation from the "peaceful" muslims in our community.
Dont all try to answer at once.

Don't expect an answer macro, they are too busy planning to blow up more schools, stab more babies, rape more girls, fly more airplanes into buildings and walk into coffee shops with bombs strapped to their chest.

Remember, it is the religion of peace after all.

Quoted: ..Remember, these guys are clerics, the people who ADVISE/LEAD your average peace loving killermuslim...

This is the true reason for the problem, of course, these 'teachers' that instill hatred in the hearts of their followers.

What I don't understand is why such advise, given by a religious leader, is not tantamount to conspiracy to commit murder.  Punishable by prison, or two in the back of the head by some three-letter agency.

I vote for a dead pig penis up his ass!

Quoted: the coc prevents me from responding honestly.

Not me:

Fuck'em. Kill all of them. Especially those who even thought similiar thoughts as this cleric. Got to get them BEFORE they act upon them.

I'll probably wind up taking a forced vacation from ARFCOM for this, so have a good Labor Day, everybody.

Quoted: the coc prevents me from responding honestly.

But Hassan-Ben-Sobah, the Green Parrot, the new Baghdad Bob of the Towelhead Set, sure can:

"RAWWK! Religion of Peace! Religion of Peace!"

Quoted: the coc prevents me from responding honestly.

Isn't that sad?  Doesn't it speak to the need to make some minor changes to the CoC?

Quoted: ...promote a "celebratory" conference...to commemorate the third anniversary of the September 11 attacks.

come again?

Omar Bakri Mohammed, 44, who lives in Edmonton, north London,
said yesterday that he would support hostage-taking at British schools if carried out by terrorists


So, any British dads out there ?

Quoted: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/09/05/wosse705.xml An extremist Islamic cleric based in Britain said yesterday that he would support hostage-taking at British schools if carried out by terrorists with a just cause.

Come on then Islamic Bigmouth… have a go, and the Hereford Walking Club (the SAS) will be round in a heartbeat to ruin your day… and they do not take prisoners.

He would also find the British Government invoking Emergency Pwers to ruin the day of anyone else from the RoP® that even hinted down that road.

ANdy

Quoted: So, any British dads out there ?

Yes… and I trust these guys to 'do the business' and look after things…



A Fundementalist Jihadis worst nightmare… the SAS

ANdy

Quoted: Omar Bakri Mohammed, 44, who lives in Edmonton, north London, said yesterday that he would support hostage-taking at British schools if carried out by terrorists So, any British dads out there ?

The Brits need to "address" this situation before it materializes.

Quoted: Quoted: So, any British dads out there ? Yes… and I trust these guys to 'do the business' and look after things… img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/macandy/sas.jpg A Fundementalist Jihadis worst nightmare… the SAS ANdy

That an awfully government dependent response.
I would think that there would be some terrible consequences for making a statement like this in England.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So, any British dads out there ? Yes… and I trust these guys to 'do the business' and look after things… img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/macandy/sas.jpg A Fundementalist Jihadis worst nightmare… the SAS ANdy That an awfully government dependent response. I would think that there would be some terrible consequences for making a statement like this in England.

The last people to try 'Hostage Taking' in Britain were the Iranians at the Embassy siege in 1980 and except for one , they all ended up dead… NO ONE has dared to pull a similar stunt in the last 24 years for a very good reason… THEY KNOW the British Govenment WILL NOT negotiate, THEY KNOW these boys will come to play… and they play rough and play for keeps.… once the SAS are given the 'green light' NO prisoners will be taken.

Andy

Quoted: Quoted: the coc prevents me from responding honestly. Isn't that sad?  Doesn't it speak to the need to make some minor changes to the CoC?

Quoted: Isn't that sad? Doesn't it speak to the need to make some minor changes to the CoC? yes and no. yes, because...well, let's just say i don't like certain people and there's not a damn thing anyone can do to make me like them. no, because...i'm just a peon here. i don't make the rules. i try my damnedest to abide by them an fall short every now and again. no biggee.

Posts like this are nice to see every now and then. The last few days here have been...interesting.

Quoted: the coc prevents me from responding honestly.

The CoC is here to protect our Muslim friends don't you know.


Sktar15

Quoted: WWJD

Jesus wouldn't raid a school or instruct anyone else to do so.

Jesus also wouldn't shift blame...he would embrace responsibility.


SGatr15

Quoted: the coc prevents me from responding honestly.

Umm hmmm.

When do we start burning mosques in America?  When do start just killing the bastards for what they stand for?

Quoted: Im not a religion expert, so I am asking a question for real, life long muslim members of this board. True or false, to subscribe to Islam is to  beleive that no other religions on the planet should be honored and that people who cannot be converted to Islam should be cast aside from society? To clarify...my understanding is... the only religion should be Islam, all laws, public culture, and moral codes should be based on Islam, and anyone that doesnt hold the same belief should not be permitted to be a part of society. Is this accurate? What am I missing? Assuming that this is a true statement, would I be wrong in concluding that Islam is a seperatist, exclusive, cult? Please dont anyone think I am bashing a religion - Im simply asking about one that seems to evade the parameter of common decency. For the record, Im agnostic and have no tie to Christianity or Judaism. From where I stand, of the three, one of these kids is not like the other. Just looking for some confirmation from the "peaceful" muslims in our community. Dont all try to answer at once.

Macro,

I am a muslim, and I will try to answer your questions from my perspectives.  Beware, my answers may be very different from the answers given to you by some muslims from the middle east.  

I am originally from Indonesia.  Religious tollerance was one of the biggest issue hammered on to us by our religious study teachers when I was growing up there.  Religious studies are mandatory subjects taught in all K12 schools in Indonesia.  In public schools, they offer different courses for different religions.  

The version of Islam taught in my school put a big emphasis on respecting other religions and their followers.  I am not a very religious guy, but there is one verse that I still remember well: "For you your own religion, for me, mine."  Basically, I never consider someone's faith as a factor in building a friendship/relationship with that individual.  

This how things were some 15 years ago.  They may have changed now, I dont know.  I have been living in the U.S. almost all of my adult life.  So what I am saying here may no longer relevant to the realities in Indonesia today.  But from monitoring Indonesian press, I believe religious tollerance still lives in Indonesia.

On a personal note, my own mother in law is a Christian.  She had been married to my father in law, a devout muslim, for 35 years.  They respected each other's faith and managed to raise a beautiful family with two sons and a daughter (my wife).  

Non-muslims have held many high ranking government positions in Indonesia.  One of my favorite Indonesian figures is an Army General named Leonardus Benjamin Moerdani.  Ben Moerdani was born a muslim, but later he converted into Catholicism. He was the top man in Indo military intelligence from 1975-1983.  From 1983 to 1988 he was the Commanding General of the Indo Armed Forces, and from 1983 - 1993, he held the position of Defense Ministry after retiring from military service.  He was a professional, intelligent, methodical, and selfless military commander that was respected and feared by his friends and foe alike.  My father and father in law served in the Indonesian Navy and they both admired and respected Gen. Moerdani, and so do I.  Of course, in the eyes of radical muslims, Moerdani was their worst nightmare.  Moerdani's commitment to preventing Indonesia from becoming the largest Islamic state in the world was very strong.  During his tenure as chief of military intelligence and as the Indo Military Commanding General, he crushed many terror efforts attempted by the Islamic extremists.  One of these efforts was the hijacking of a Garuda Indonesia DC9 to Bangkok in 1981.  Moerdani, a Lt. Gen at that time, led the Commando assault himself, killing all the hijackers with the loss of 1 soldier and the pilot of the hijacked plane.  Last week, Gen. Moerdani passed away from a stroke he suffered recently.  Upon hearing the news, I observed the moment of silence to remember one tough and dedicated soldier that I admire dearly.

To all the members here who have expressed their strong sentiment against Islam and muslims, I can only say that I understand your stance because I share your anger as well.  In fact, I feel more than just anger toward these cowards who killed innocent children and women, but I also harbor the shame because Islam is also my faith, and I feel powerless to stop these maniacs from tarnishing the image of Islam by killing more innocent people.  I had told the FBI that if they think I can be of some help to them in any way possible, I wanted them to call me because I would do my best to help them out to find and stop these bastards.  The call never came.  What else I can do?  I am too old, too heavy, with too many health issues to enlist to go to Iraq or Afghanistan.  Heck, I dont speak Arabic, so I cannot even volunteer as an interpreter.  

I often ask myself what I would do if I run into an Islamic terrorist .... will I have enough power to stop myself from shooting him? I know Uncle Sam wants him alive to get some information, but I am just so pissed at them that I may realize the importance of keeping him alive after I empty my 30-rd magazine on his head.

This evening, I sat down with my 6 y.o. daughter and explained to her what just happened in Beslan, Russia.  I showed her the photos of children injured and dead posted here.  I also told her that those children were killed by some bad guys who were also muslims.  I made it clear to her that there are bad muslims that she must be aware of.  She asked me how to tell them apart?  I answered that it was difficult to do, but I promised to explain that in details later.  I know some of you may not want your kids to see such graphics pictures of dead children from Russia.  But my wife and I feel that it is important for our children to know what kind of carnage and destruction could result from an extreme and radical practice of a religion.  Sadly, this time, it is our own religion.  


I hope this answers most of your questions.

OZ

Quoted: Quoted: Isn't that sad? Doesn't it speak to the need to make some minor changes to the CoC? yes and no. yes, because...well, let's just say i don't like certain people and there's not a damn thing anyone can do to make me like them. no, because...i'm just a peon here. i don't make the rules. i try my damnedest to abide by them an fall short every now and again. no biggee. Posts like this are nice to see every now and then. The last few days here have been...interesting.

You're still here?

If someone were to whack Mr. Omar Bakri Mohammed, 44, who lives in Edmonton, north London, I would not be the least bit saddened.

Quoted: If someone were to whack Mr. Omar Bakri Mohammed, 44, who lives in Edmonton, north London, I would not be the least bit saddened.

+1

Quoted: You're still here?

I know. Go figure.

Quoted: Inflammatory lies spread by bigots & haters. Islam is a religion of peace & everyone with eyes knows this!!! People, we really need to stop slandering the good name & reputation of our Muslin brothers.

Yes, we know that not all Muslims are terrorists and we can't "kill'em all".

"Omar Bakri Mohammed, 44, who lives in Edmonton, north London,
said yesterday that he would support hostage-taking at British schools if carried out by terrorists"

If He would support in the U.K. You damn well know he would love it to happen in the U.S.A.


get a rope

Quoted: the coc prevents me from responding honestly.

What a shame.

Quoted: Come on then Islamic Bigmouth… have a go, and the Hereford Walking Club (the SAS) will be round in a heartbeat to ruin your day… and they do not take prisoners. He would also find the British Government invoking Emergency Pwers to ruin the day of anyone else from the RoP® that even hinted down that road. ANdy

Why not do it now?

You guys have grabbed Irish folks for far less than this. I say go arrest the bastard. I'm sure you can find some sort of charge.

Religion of peace.
My ass.

Quoted: the coc prevents me from responding honestly.

+1

Quoted: Macro, I am a muslim, and I will try to answer your questions from my perspectives . . .

Thank you for that post.  Though I have to say, I think the majority of Muslims in the world think YOU are the one in error -- the one who is not truly following Islam.  I'm glad you have found a way for Islam and peace to coexist in your heart, but I think you are very much in the minority.  

Quoted: Quoted: WWJD Jesus wouldn't raid a school or instruct anyone else to do so. Jesus also wouldn't shift blame...he would embrace responsibility. SGatr15

As part of the Holy Trinity, wouldn't He actually mete out reprisals?  Something to the effect of "Vengeance shall be mine."

Quoted: Quoted: Come on then Islamic Bigmouth… have a go, and the Hereford Walking Club (the SAS) will be round in a heartbeat to ruin your day… and they do not take prisoners. He would also find the British Government invoking Emergency Pwers to ruin the day of anyone else from the RoP® that even hinted down that road. ANdy Why not do it now? You guys have grabbed Irish folks for far less than this. I say go arrest the bastard. I'm sure you can find some sort of charge.

I'm sure as we speak 'people' are discussing this turd… and remember, our Government can authorise 'Executive Action" against individuals they suspect are about to commit an act of terror… (Think SAS and the incident on Gibraltar as an example).
ANdy

Quoted: Quoted: You guys have grabbed Irish folks for far less than this. I say go arrest the bastard. I'm sure you can find some sort of charge. I'm sure as we speak 'people' are discussing this turd… and remember, our Government can authorise 'Executive Action" against individuals they suspect are about to commit an act of terror… (Think SAS and the incident on Gibraltar as an example). ANdy

Hell, Herr Blunkett now has the power to detain without trial people suspected of committing terrorists acts or supporting terrorist acts, as long as they're not British Citizens, of course I dont think my anger against this f***tard is enough to let me vote to give him those powers against citizens as well...

We seem to be very careful about using anti-terrorist and hate-crime laws against clerics like this because
a) the reports of what he said in the papers are not exactly likely to stand up in court, or even be accurate.

For example:
Reporter : would it be a sin if women and children were to be caught in a shoot out between legitimate (sic) targets and mujahdeen?
Cleric: It would be terribly unfortunate, but if it could not be avoided then it would not be a sin.
Newspaper: Radical cleric says its ok to shoot women and children.

I have no doubt this shitbag actually believes that the targetting of children-rich environments like schools is OK. But, the cops are probably going to have to do some serious work to get him on anything serious so we can a) boot him out the coutry after b) doing twenty years in general population with people who _really_ dont like him.

Gibraltar? Weren't there some serious charges over that in the end Andy?

Hereford Walking Club You make them sound like elite ramblers!

/Phil

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I have no doubt this shitbag actually believes that the targetting of children-rich environments like schools is OK. But, the cops are probably going to have to do some serious work to get him on anything serious so we can a) boot him out the coutry after b) doing twenty years in general population with people who _really_ dont like him. Gibraltar? Weren't there some serious charges over that in the end Andy? Hereford Walking Club You make them sound like elite ramblers! /Phil

Morning Phil…

Well Abu Hamza though he was untouchable too… now it looks live he's going to be jetting off the the USA as a 'guest' of the US Govt shortly…

Oh yes!  The Govt went through the 'showtrial' thing… but they were only playing to the 'public'… no charges were EVER going to stick on the SAS, never have, never will.

Hereford Walking Club It's their forces nickname because of all the time they spend roaming around the Brecon Beacons and deserts…

Andy