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Posted: 7/18/2005 4:15:43 PM EDT
I love the opening scene when they are about to depart, Go Bama, Roll Tide.

The Mrs and I always get in a fight when we watch the movie. She pulls for Denzel and I pull for Hackman.
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 4:16:46 PM EDT
Denzel here....
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 4:26:24 PM EDT
WADR folks, I seriously doubt there has ever been a movie more filled with technical and operational mistakes than that POS.

That said, I must keep in mind that it was written, directed and performed by what is likely the largest group of anti-war, anti-nuke, & anti-military assholes on the planet: Hollywierd movie makers!

It is no wonder that the Navy refused technical assistance after they objected to the script.
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 4:36:36 PM EDT
Something worth noting:

The radio operator in the movie Crimson Tide that helps save the day is PO3 Russel Vossler (as credited on www.imdb.com).

TSgt Forrest Vosler was a radio operator on B-17s in WWII and was awarded the Medal of Honor for his actions that helped save his crew TSgt Forrest Vosler

Yeah, their names are spelled differently, but I bet this was more than a coincidence.
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 4:40:47 PM EDT
If they had been sunk on the bottom at least they could have ate that little dog.
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 4:47:09 PM EDT
That movie was utter BS. My best friends is a former submariner and the first time he watched it, he got so mad his wife had to leave the room. Now he can't make 10 minutes.
I won't go into all the details of why it's so unrealistic and unmilitary, but I think the fact that the 1st officer tells some hapless E3 to fix the radio, after giving him some really ridiculous star trek analogy, and then runs off to play an underwater version of cops and robbers with the former skipper is pretty telling.

There is actually an officer in charge of communications on a sub, and you can bet that if communications were what the boat needed, that freakin' guy would be doing the work or making sure it got done right and FAST, and the captain and 1st officer would be more concerned with it's progress than all their other silly games. The whole movie made the sub force look like a bunch of weekend warriors at a paintball shoot gone bad, although it was interesting how the arms race escalated through shotguns, pistols, then M16's.

Also, bottom line, no questions asked, if they received an order to fire, and no follow up order, and everything was according to SOP (which it was in the movie) those nukes go up in an orderly fashion.
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 4:53:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2005 4:55:27 PM EDT by guardian855]
*ATTENTION!!!* *ATTENTION!!!* *ATTENTION!!!!*

For all those people complaining about the realism in Crimson Tide,

It's just a movie!
Notice what type of movie is it? It's a fictional movie

3 entries found for fictional.
fic·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fkshn)
n.

An imaginative creation or a pretense that does not represent actuality but has been invented.
The act of inventing such a creation or pretense.
A lie.

A literary work whose content is produced by the imagination and is not necessarily based on fact.
The category of literature comprising works of this kind, including novels and short stories.
Law. Something untrue that is intentionally represented as true by the narrator.



That is all. We now return you to your regular programming.
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 4:57:21 PM EDT
+1

Originally Posted By guardian855:
*ATTENTION!!!* *ATTENTION!!!* *ATTENTION!!!!*

For all those people complaining about the realism in Crimson Tide,

It's just a movie!
Notice what type of movie is it? It's a fictional movie

3 entries found for fictional.
fic·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fkshn)
n.

An imaginative creation or a pretense that does not represent actuality but has been invented.
The act of inventing such a creation or pretense.
A lie.

A literary work whose content is produced by the imagination and is not necessarily based on fact.
The category of literature comprising works of this kind, including novels and short stories.
Law. Something untrue that is intentionally represented as true by the narrator.



That is all. We now return you to your regular programming.

Link Posted: 7/18/2005 5:00:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 5:28:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By guardian855:
*ATTENTION!!!* *ATTENTION!!!* *ATTENTION!!!!*

For all those people complaining about the realism in Crimson Tide,

blah blah blah blah blah, and that's for sure!

That is all. We now return you to your regular programming.



So, Saving private ryan would have been better if The Captain and Upham were separated siamesed twins destined to fight the nazis before the operation that could reunite them?

Heartbreak ridge would have been ok if recon platoon had been a moonlighting dance troop, and part of the IRA at nights in underground church clubs?

Crimson tide took nearly that much liberty with something that should be, if not revered, at least accurately portrayed.

Why do the guys in blackhawk down get to look like heroes, larger than life, and something to be achingly proud of... (all of which is quite accurate)

while the sub guys are a bunch of effete, dog loving, gun crazy ARFCOM rejects who got sub work after their union disbanded at the tire factory... and who don't know much about radios but know they need to WORK, if nuclear war is to be prevented.

Link Posted: 7/18/2005 5:42:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2005 5:43:39 PM EDT by RABIDFOX50]
It's a good movie but it's just that, A MOVIE!!!!!!!
People read too much into a MOVIE!

Want real, watch the History Channel, not a movie made by hollyweird for the sake of making MONEY!
Do you really think producers in hollywood give two craps weather a movie protrays things correctly?
Don't hold your breath bub!
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 5:43:43 PM EDT
it was entertaining, sounds like your buddy got mad because he thought he was watching the discovery channel?
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 5:44:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I love the opening scene when they are about to depart, Go Bama, Roll Tide.

The Mrs and I always get in a fight when we watch the movie. She pulls for Denzel and I pull for Hackman.



I'm surprised your marriage can survive this. The Hackman/Denzel problem dooms many relationships.
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 5:44:14 PM EDT
What about Ridley Scott, or Steven Spielberg...?

Link Posted: 7/18/2005 5:44:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fast_Jimmy:

Originally Posted By guardian855:
*ATTENTION!!!* *ATTENTION!!!* *ATTENTION!!!!*

For all those people complaining about the realism in Crimson Tide,

blah blah blah blah blah, and that's for sure!

That is all. We now return you to your regular programming.



So, Saving private ryan would have been better if The Captain and Upham were separated siamesed twins destined to fight the nazis before the operation that could reunite them?

Heartbreak ridge would have been ok if recon platoon had been a moonlighting dance troop, and part of the IRA at nights in underground church clubs?

Crimson tide took nearly that much liberty with something that should be, if not revered, at least accurately portrayed.

Why do the guys in blackhawk down get to look like heroes, larger than life, and something to be achingly proud of... (all of which is quite accurate)

while the sub guys are a bunch of effete, dog loving, gun crazy ARFCOM rejects who got sub work after their union disbanded at the tire factory... and who don't know much about radios but know they need to WORK, if nuclear war is to be prevented.




Hey, if I judged movies like you do, I would hate Saving Private Ryan because the sniper fired 8 or 9 shots out of his M1903 without reloading.

Again, it's a movie. It's a movie produced by the same guys who produced a movie about Ben Affleck saving the world on an asteroid, terrorists seizing Alcatraz and we need an 70 year former SAS agent who has been locked away in secret for 40 years to save them, or Nicholas Cage fighting a planeload of convicts who seized a plane filled with an arsenal of weapons, inculding M16s and M79 grenade launchers.

It's a movie people, that is all. It's not meant to portray sub guys as anything, they just act like that to move the plot along.

Link Posted: 7/18/2005 5:46:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MDC85:
it was entertaining, sounds like your buddy got mad because he thought he was watching the discovery channel?



It was entertaining, but I guess anything distorted or inaccurate is going to grate on an expert (my friend) more than a casual viewer, which I was the first time I watched it.

I'd give it 2.5 stars as a movie, mostly because subs and gene hackman are pretty cool.
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 5:49:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By guardian855:
or Nicholas Cage fighting a planeload of convicts who seized a plane filled with an arsenal of weapons, inculding M16s and M79 grenade launchers.





Hey, that movie was so bad I wanted to cry at the end for the time I wasted on it. I think realism spices up a movie pretty well, though. It's not like they couldn't have researched how the navy command structure really works and worked that into the plot.

Link Posted: 7/18/2005 5:54:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fast_Jimmy:

Originally Posted By guardian855:
or Nicholas Cage fighting a planeload of convicts who seized a plane filled with an arsenal of weapons, inculding M16s and M79 grenade launchers.





Hey, that movie was so bad I wanted to cry at the end for the time I wasted on it. I think realism spices up a movie pretty well, though. It's not like they couldn't have researched how the navy command structure really works and worked that into the plot.




That isn't the worst of it. Who did they bring in to work on the script? Some guy from the Navy, or some dude from the military at all? No, they got Quentin Tarantino to work on it.
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 6:01:01 PM EDT
OK, so what was unrealistic about the movie? Waht was wrong with it?
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 6:11:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By guardian855:
*ATTENTION!!!* *ATTENTION!!!* *ATTENTION!!!!*

For all those people complaining about the realism in Crimson Tide,

It's just a movie!
Notice what type of movie is it? It's a fictional movie

3 entries found for fictional.
fic·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fkshn)
n.

An imaginative creation or a pretense that does not represent actuality but has been invented.
The act of inventing such a creation or pretense.
A lie.

A literary work whose content is produced by the imagination and is not necessarily based on fact.
The category of literature comprising works of this kind, including novels and short stories.
Law. Something untrue that is intentionally represented as true by the narrator.



That is all. We now return you to your regular programming.



Hunt for Red October was fiction and it was realistic.
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 6:15:18 PM EDT
Why do I even bother coming to this place?


bunch of nitwits

P.S. It was a FICTIONAL MOVIE!
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 6:31:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SC-Texas:
OK, so what was unrealistic about the movie? Waht was wrong with it?



Basically, naval submarine officers (not sure about surface ships and coast guard) don't run around in mutinous squads and counter groups trying to re-take command of the boat. Command of the boat is not a floating prize to be fought over, campaigned for, or siezed.

They're serious professionals, and it was pretty clear what the regulations were regarding the launching of its missiles, and that the captain was within regulations. Under those conditions, the farcical nonsense that ensued is quite unlikely.
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 6:38:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2005 7:03:13 PM EDT by guardian855]

Originally Posted By Fast_Jimmy:

Originally Posted By SC-Texas:
OK, so what was unrealistic about the movie? Waht was wrong with it?



Basically, naval submarine officers (not sure about surface ships and coast guard) don't run around in mutinous squads and counter groups trying to re-take command of the boat. Command of the boat is not a floating prize to be fought over, campaigned for, or siezed.

They're serious professionals, and it was pretty clear what the regulations were regarding the launching of its missiles, and that the captain was within regulations. Under those conditions, the farcical nonsense that ensued is quite unlikely.



Unlikely sure, but was it impossible?

It would have been a boring movie if they didn't have the revolt and they just went ahead and launched the missles. See, the point of this particular movie is to have drama, not an accurate, detailed look at the life of a sailor. They will sacerfice facts for drama.

Myself, I personally enjoyed the movie. I thought the acting of Gene Hackman was top notch, and Denzel Washington put in a great performance as well. The scene where Hackman was going to execute the sailor in order to get the Missle guy (also a not bad performance from Viggo Mortensen) to open the safe was just on the edge of the seat suspense.

I also liked the soundtrack to the movie.

However, I enjoyed it because I realize it's a fictional movie and is not based on fact.

Also, the Navy wouldn't help them film it because of the vague undertone of racism of the depictions of mutiny that was in the movie, not because it was a bad movie.
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 6:44:26 PM EDT
There was a lot of entertaining stuff to it, sure, but I think you'd be more likely to find these antics at "the bordello at 96th and jackson", than on a nuclear sub. The suspension of disbelief required to envision naval officers of all people acting like this is tough.

And, you have to admit, that was the cheesiest, most ridiculous thing when he told the E3 radio man to fix this critical part just like william shatner preoccupied with a BJ might have.

Now, "the Postman"... there was a questionable movie with some plausible weirdness.
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 6:44:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SC-Texas:
OK, so what was unrealistic about the movie? Waht was wrong with it?



A) Situation never would have happened. Second (partial) EAM would have come in, crew would have looked at it, said "oh, well", and squeezed the trigger--THEN gone back and asked about the partial EAM.

Your highest priority is to make your keyturn on time. Period, dot. Nothing, not a bathroom break, not a missing arm, not a partial EAM, gets in the way of your initial commit time (ICT). Equipment failure or death are the only two acceptable excuses for not making ICT.

B) Crews are too highly trained to do that kind of crap. It's all pavlovian knee-jerk responses--the bell rings, the crews start salivating.

C) The idea of a mutiny on a Navy vessel of any sort is pretty far-fetched, if you ask me.

D) Minor detail, but still bugs me. They rack their weapons so many times they should have emptied the magazines in about 30 seconds. Every time someone wanted to make a point, or they got spooked, or they rounded a corner, you heard a slide or bolt move. There should have been enough loose ammo on the deck to cause a slipping/tripping hazard.

Crimson Tide is to the navy sub service as Iron Eagle was to the Air Force.
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 6:45:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By happycynic:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I love the opening scene when they are about to depart, Go Bama, Roll Tide.

The Mrs and I always get in a fight when we watch the movie. She pulls for Denzel and I pull for Hackman.



I'm surprised your marriage can survive this. The Hackman/Denzel problem dooms many relationships.



It has surprised me also.
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 6:52:05 PM EDT
the most realistic US submarine movie is down periscope. ask any other submariner on the board.
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 6:53:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By limaxray:

Your highest priority is to make your keyturn on time. Period, dot. Nothing, not a bathroom break, not a missing arm, not a partial EAM, gets in the way of your initial commit time (ICT). Equipment failure or death are the only two acceptable excuses for not making ICT.




Unless, of course, you happen to have a 'Denzel Washington Moment' of startling moral clarity, and just aren't sure you want to do what you're supposed to, meaning that you should be in charge, not this crazy by the book war monger captain type.


Link Posted: 7/18/2005 6:53:28 PM EDT
how bout Hunt for Red October, any accuracy in that movie?
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 6:55:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:
how bout Hunt for Red October, any accuracy in that movie?



alec baldwin is indeed a bad motherfucker.

Link Posted: 7/18/2005 6:55:43 PM EDT
Uhhhh.... WAR EAGLE!
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 6:58:50 PM EDT
Just found this little tid bit about Crimson Tide

Captain Skip Beard, listed as a Technical Advisor, served as the Commanding Officer of the real USS Alabama (SSBN 731). He can be seen in the Board of Inquiry scene. He is the man with no hair sitting next to Jason Robards.
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 6:59:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:
how bout Hunt for Red October, any accuracy in that movie?



Like the Russian officers with British, Australian and Scottish accents?

Link Posted: 7/18/2005 7:01:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Something worth noting:

The radio operator in the movie Crimson Tide that helps save the day is PO3 Russel Vossler (as credited on www.imdb.com).

TSgt Forrest Vosler was a radio operator on B-17s in WWII and was awarded the Medal of Honor for his actions that helped save his crew TSgt Forrest Vosler

Yeah, their names are spelled differently, but I bet this was more than a coincidence.



Quentin Tarantino was brought in to do uncredited "punch-ups" of the dialogue. His major contribution was the comic book bickering. The character name "Russell Vossler" is a reference to Rand Vossler, with whom Tarantino used to work at a video store. See also Pulp Fiction (1994).
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 7:03:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fast_Jimmy:

Originally Posted By limaxray:

Your highest priority is to make your keyturn on time. Period, dot. Nothing, not a bathroom break, not a missing arm, not a partial EAM, gets in the way of your initial commit time (ICT). Equipment failure or death are the only two acceptable excuses for not making ICT.


Unless, of course, you happen to have a 'Denzel Washington Moment' of startling moral clarity, and just aren't sure you want to do what you're supposed to, meaning that you should be in charge, not this crazy by the book war monger captain type.



Well, that's kind of the problem. Without it, the movie lasts 15 minutes. They board the sub, they go to sea, they get a message, 24 empty tubes later they go back to base. Not nearly as suspenseful.....
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 7:11:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By guardian855:

Originally Posted By twonami:
how bout Hunt for Red October, any accuracy in that movie?



Like the Russian officers with British, Australian and Scottish accents?




The book was pretty accurate, I'd say, though.
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 7:16:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:

Hunt for Red October was fiction and it was realistic.



The movie was OK, but reading the book you are painfully aware of Tom Clancy's weak grasp
of some of the techincal stuff. Same thing in Red Storm Rising.
He thankfully started avoiding going too much in depth, but recently stuff is just plain
James Bond fantasy.
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 7:18:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIPSNIPE1:

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:

Hunt for Red October was fiction and it was realistic.



Tom Clancy's weak grasp of some of the techincal stuff.



That's an understatement.........
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 7:20:03 PM EDT
I personally love the movie, one of my favorites. Far from realistic and though it would never happen, I enjoy pondering the "what-if" scenario the movie presents. I'm sure many of you who criticize the movie for being "what-if" have NEVER taken part in a SHTF or Zombie Invasion thread either .
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 7:23:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FiveO:
Uhhhh.... WAR EAGLE!



Bite me.
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 7:24:35 PM EDT
The only submarine movie that is close to the real thing is Das Boot, none other are even in the ball park.
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 7:37:31 PM EDT
No kidding LWilde, everyone knows that the skippers dog is not allowed on the bridge.


Originally Posted By LWilde:
WADR folks, I seriously doubt there has ever been a movie more filled with technical and operational mistakes than that POS.

Link Posted: 7/18/2005 7:44:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LANCEMAN:
If they had been sunk on the bottom at least they could have ate that little dog.

You don't know much about a Jack Russell Terrier! The shedding hair alone would have disabled the sub.
Link Posted: 7/18/2005 7:44:30 PM EDT
You ever watched an English, Australian or New Zealand movie with Russians (or any foreign bad guys)? They have American accents.


Originally Posted By guardian855:

Originally Posted By twonami:
how bout Hunt for Red October, any accuracy in that movie?



Like the Russian officers with British, Australian and Scottish accents?


Link Posted: 7/19/2005 3:21:49 AM EDT
Could you ask your Sub buddy what he or his service friends thought of Blind Man's Bluff?
Link Posted: 7/19/2005 3:44:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:
The only submarine movie that is close to the real thing is Das Boot, none other are even in the ball park.



+1 !!!

Just bought the director's cut DVD at Wally World for under 10 bucks.
I read the book when I was a kid, and saw parts of the TV movie years ago.
Truly a very good movie, worth watching/buying.
(Even the g/f liked it!!!!)
Link Posted: 7/19/2005 4:54:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By guardian855:
Just found this little tid bit about Crimson Tide

Captain Skip Beard, listed as a Technical Advisor, served as the Commanding Officer of the real USS Alabama (SSBN 731). He can be seen in the Board of Inquiry scene. He is the man with no hair sitting next to Jason Robards.



You beat me to mentioning that Capt. Beard was a technical advisor for the movie. I served under Capt. Beard as a NAVAIDS ET on the Gold crew. The movie is word for word correct during the missile launch scenes, it sounds like they were straight out of the SOP's.

Alot of the movie is BS, but hey it's only a movie and I find it entertaining to this day. I'm actually watching it on TV here in Fujairah, U.A.E. as I type this. It even has the Arabic subscripts at the bottom of the screen.
Link Posted: 7/19/2005 5:04:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lloyd-Jr:
Could you ask your Sub buddy what he or his service friends thought of Blind Man's Bluff?



I heard many of the same stories that are in the book from other submariners when I was on the USS Alabama for several years, guys that had served on fast attack boats, and I heard them before the book came out. There's just as many or more things that have happened that didn't make the book.

Blind Man's Bluff is the most accurate submarine book that I know of.
Link Posted: 7/19/2005 5:43:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By limaxray:

Crimson Tide is to the navy sub service as Iron Eagle was to the Air Force.



You mean that high school kids really don't get to fly in F-16s and get to go anywhere they want to on base and there's no such thing as a Hades bomb? Man you don't know what you're talking about because that movie was as real as it gets. Even down to that little screen in the cockpit that "talked".
Link Posted: 7/20/2005 7:22:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By IBU-14_Gunner:

Originally Posted By Lloyd-Jr:
Could you ask your Sub buddy what he or his service friends thought of Blind Man's Bluff?



I heard many of the same stories that are in the book from other submariners when I was on the USS Alabama for several years, guys that had served on fast attack boats, and I heard them before the book came out. There's just as many or more things that have happened that didn't make the book.

Blind Man's Bluff is the most accurate submarine book that I know of.


+1

There is a whole chapter dedicated to my first boat, USS Lapon (SSN-661)
Link Posted: 7/20/2005 7:26:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fast_Jimmy:

Originally Posted By SC-Texas:
OK, so what was unrealistic about the movie? Waht was wrong with it?



Basically, naval submarine officers (not sure about surface ships and coast guard) don't run around in mutinous squads and counter groups trying to re-take command of the boat. Command of the boat is not a floating prize to be fought over, campaigned for, or siezed.

They're serious professionals, and it was pretty clear what the regulations were regarding the launching of its missiles, and that the captain was within regulations. Under those conditions, the farcical nonsense that ensued is quite unlikely.



Fixed it for you.
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