Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Posted: 12/26/2003 6:38:20 AM EDT
Something I read in another thread made me think of this. The Catholic church teaches that suicide is a mortal sin. However, as with everything, there should be exceptions - I offer the following example:

You are a soldier/CIA officer in possession of essential elements of friendly information that would prove devastating to US forces if the enemy were to come into possession of it. You are captured by a technically skilled enemy, and are going to be tortured or chemically interrogated for the purpose of extracting this information.

You are equipped with a special crown on a tooth that if bitten and ground on in a special way, will release a chemical agent that will nearly instantaneously kill you.

Keep in mind, the enemy's acquisition of the information you possess will result in the deaths of thousands of your fellow troops.

What do you do?


Choice 2: Set up same as above, only this time you are NOT in possession of EEFI or anything that would be useful to the enemy, but you are captured by an enemy known to be hideously barbaric in their treatment of prisoners.

Now what?

Moral, or no?
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 6:43:56 AM EDT
reminds me of another question...: "would you kill an inocennt child to save the world" or something to that effect.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 6:59:14 AM EDT
If you have had a poison tooth installed in your mouth, I think you've already made that decision. You were prepared to take your own life before the "mission" started.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 7:03:17 AM EDT
There is a difference between giving your life and taking your life. It's that simple. 11B
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 7:12:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 11B91B: There is a difference between giving your life and taking your life. It's that simple. 11B
View Quote
DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!! One of the few cases where the end [i]does[/i] justify the means. Sgtar15
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 7:13:20 AM EDT
so, which, if either of these scenarios is it morally acceptable to end your own life?
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 7:17:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 11B91B: There is a difference between giving your life and taking your life. It's that simple. 11B
View Quote
^^
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 7:23:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cluster: reminds me of another question...: "would you kill an inocennt child to save the world" or something to that effect.
View Quote
"Stanley, here's a scenario. You have the power to cure all of the world's diseases. But the price for this is that you must kill a single, innocent child. Could you kill that child to save the world?"
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 7:31:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 11B91B: There is a difference between giving your life and taking your life. It's that simple. 11B
View Quote
What he said!
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 7:36:39 AM EDT
Suicide is a selfish act. Your scenario isn't a traditional suicide type morality question by any stretch of the imagination. Were I to have that vital info I'd whack myself. I had the cyanide tooth installed, didn't I? I'd be saving hundreds of lives. How about you've been told you have been captured by cancer, and a death from cancer is known to long and excruciatingly painful and horrid for your family to watch. Now would you kill yourself?
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 7:43:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sherm8404: Suicide is a selfish act. Your scenario isn't a traditional suicide type morality question by any stretch of the imagination. Were I to have that vital info I'd whack myself. I had the cyanide tooth installed, didn't I? I'd be saving hundreds of lives. How about you've been told you have been captured by cancer, and a death from cancer is known to long and excruciatingly painful and horrid for your family to watch. Now would you kill yourself?
View Quote
Oh, I realize the difference...the difference between the two scenarios I posted appears to me to be that with #2, you'd be ending your own life to save yourself unbelievable pain, vs. saving others lives in the first scenario. Is that okay? I don't know, that's why I posed the question. AFA the cancer, I don't know. Tough call. My guess would be, that it would fall under the 'not ok' moral umbrella, which would seem to indicate #2 above would as well. But maybe not.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 7:55:46 AM EDT
Suicide in most cases is not a "moral" act. But then again, neither is wasting time posting on AR15.com while on the clock. My father-in-law blew his brains out with a .30-06. I found him. It was horrible and I will NEVER forget it or get-over it. But I do NOT hold it against him. I do not presume to know what he was going through at the time that he "lost his mind" and his will-to-live. What I know was enough to send many over the edge. I have forgiven him for what I went through as a result of that selfish act. I believe that God will forgive him. I hope that God forgives me for all of my selfish acts throughout my life. (I do believe that he will, have to go on faith that he will until then.) My point is that yes, suicide is generally very wrong and the act should be condemned. But so are a lot of things we do. I do not condem those who feel they have no other choice.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 11:32:14 AM EDT
In either scenario, if you know you'll die (either by your own hand or another's) why wouldn't you try to kill at least one of the enemies to "take one with you" so to speak? Die fighting.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 11:39:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2003 11:42:07 AM EDT by cyanide]
Had a friend a long time ago, was diagnosed with a virulent form of cancer, he opted for suicide, I understood his choice and respected him even after he committed suicide. Anyone who says they would never do it, just has not been placed in the right circumstance yet. Why is it we extend the courtesy to our pets but deny it to people ??
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 12:05:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2003 12:10:05 PM EDT by kpel308]
I vote yes to both. And if I should ever develop cancer, I'm going to live my life to the fullest. When I start to get to the point I can't take care of myself, POW. I'm out of here. I saw both of the grandparents who raised me die of cancer, and I am NOT going like that. I reached my peace with this a long time ago. There is a diffence between what God wants, and what some guy in a robe believes who thinks HE knows what God wants. My friend Steve also blew his brains out with a 12 guage under the chin, and we found him in his truck 3 days later. In July. With the windows rolled up. He offed himself because he lost his career and girlfriend the same week I did. I did NOT kill myself, though that was a pretty damned low time in my life, and I wound up on the street. I AM a survivor, but cancer or a debilitating disease is another story entirely.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 12:30:59 PM EDT
There is no difference in the two offered scenarios and say, diving on a grenade. The only time suicide is justifiable is when it will save the lives of others. Knocking your self off because you have cancer is a cheap cop out, yes, it could be painfull and crappy, but it is what God has given you, and may be its just a test....there is no kind of cancer that is ALWAYS 100% fatal, and so long as there is that tiniest of chances, you CANNOT take the easy way out just because you are affraid...
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 12:49:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2003 12:50:46 PM EDT by cyanide]
Originally Posted By RebelGray: There is no difference in the two offered scenarios and say, diving on a grenade. The only time suicide is justifiable is when it will save the lives of others. Knocking your self off because you have cancer is a cheap cop out, yes, it could be painfull and crappy, but it is what God has given you,[red] and may be its just a test....[/red]there is no kind of cancer that is ALWAYS 100% fatal, and so long as there is that tiniest of chances, you CANNOT take the easy way out just because you are affraid...
View Quote
Well I stopped taking tests in school, I feel this may be a religious thing with you so I will not address it in a way to offend you, although it may. Why is it people always say God is good, gentle, but when discussing death by cancer, it is a test. Ridiculous. Young child dies , a test of your faith, I think not -- nature at work, and nature is cruel. However it is your faith, and I would not impose my beliefs on you, so why does society impose its belief on others, for instance by preventing mercy killing.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 12:54:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RebelGray: There is no difference in the two offered scenarios and say, diving on a grenade. The only time suicide is justifiable is when it will save the lives of others. Knocking your self off because you have cancer is a cheap cop out, yes, it could be painfull and crappy, but it is what God has given you, and may be its just a test....there is no kind of cancer that is ALWAYS 100% fatal, and so long as there is that tiniest of chances, you CANNOT take the easy way out just because you are affraid...
View Quote
You've obviously never seen REAL CANCER first hand, have you? I got my first taste of it at 8 years old when I saw my mother eaten to the bone by the demon that could not be stopped by all the king's horses and all the king's men. So don't you f-ing dare tell me that no cancer is incurable. The disease killed the victim, not the suicide. The suicide just expedited the inevitable. The bible is very simple in this position, [red]judge not, lest you be judged in the same manner.[/red] There's only one who can determine if suicide is a mortal sin and we're ALL gonna see that judge sooner or later.
Top Top