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Posted: 12/11/2013 6:38:42 AM EST
Thoughts? I read this today. It was written by a LEO. I find it quite profound.

The purpose of a military is, by it's very nature, to train to destroy something or to actually destroy it. The fact that with our military we are capable of conducting other missions is, irrelevant. The primary purpose of a military is to destroy.

On the other hand, the primary purpose of police is to preserve order, as well as protect and serve the public. By and large, they are not supposed to be destroying anything.

Agree or disagree? Can the militarization of police be stopped? If so, how?
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 6:40:08 AM EST
lol
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 6:42:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/11/2013 6:43:01 AM EST by Ltlabner]
Standby for massive incoming barrage of derp.

Pants pockets
Sheriff Andy didn't need it
Molle is evil
Doesn't look professional
What do they need __________________ for?
FEMA trains
Roided out pussies
Jokes about shooting dags
Police don't need tanks
If all you have is a hammer.....
War on Drugs


It's almost as if this has been discussed before

Link Posted: 12/11/2013 6:42:46 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Shenanigunz:
lol
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Link Posted: 12/11/2013 6:43:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 6:44:09 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 6:44:58 AM EST
Way more of a training issue than an equipment issue IMHO.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 6:46:51 AM EST
Thats deep.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 6:47:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/11/2013 6:53:03 AM EST by stillcrazy]
Yeah but armored personnel carriers are the tits. And it's cool to go all tactical, feels all manly and shit. Got to have massive firepower to kill the proliferation of citizens dags. I get the massive show of force to shut down possible opposition of the bad guys but the bigger hammer you have the more shit looks like a nail and you want to use it. It's kind of like government, it never gets smaller and less restrictive, it's always more more so as time goes on. Same deal here. God help innocent people during a tactical entry. Yes, it happens.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 6:48:50 AM EST
It's contrary to everything we Believed as a society. The America you grew up in is not todays America. Tomorrows America is going to make today look like the good old days.



Was "Protect and Serve" ever more than just a slogan? Not sure it was. The question deserves it's own thread.

Link Posted: 12/11/2013 6:49:12 AM EST
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Originally Posted By stillcrazy:
And it's cool to go all tactical, feels all manly and shit.
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That explains the Arfcom gear queers.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 6:50:04 AM EST
Gotta have FDE molle and OPS-CORE helmets when your riding in your Humvee to the Krispy Kreme.

Peace officers, yo.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 6:50:28 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By stillcrazy:
Yeah but armored personnel carriers are the tits. And it's cool to go all tactical, feels all manly and shit. Got to have massive firepower to kill the proliferation of citizens dags. I get the massive show of force to shut down possible opposition of the bad guys but the bigger hammer you have the more shit looks like a nail and you want to use it.
View Quote


You soo funny.
username fits well
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 6:51:38 AM EST
Many Americans were alarmed when the police were being created. Before that it was the sheriff and his deputies and in their absence, people could raise the hue and cry for assistance. People felt that the police could become an army of occupation and oppression. That hue and cry and self-help has been discouraged by a myriad of laws (and civil liability). Now the police (in some jurisdictions) are an army of occupation. Another former cop (retired now) I know also hates the police. We were taught to conduct ourselves professionally and within the law. Our duty was to protect public and property and to observe the Constitution and various laws. The younger guys seem to lose it nowadays (witness the cop shooting at the minivan filled with children).
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 6:51:47 AM EST
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Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
Way more of a training issue than an equipment issue IMHO.
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Training and responsibility issue than a gear issue.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 6:55:20 AM EST
This thread needs more:

MRAPS
Cargo Pants
Kevlar Helmets
Camo BDU's

and my personal fav: Police Drones
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 6:55:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/11/2013 6:58:20 AM EST by Ltlabner]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By stillcrazy:
Yeah but armored personnel carriers are the tits. And it's cool to go all tactical, feels all manly and shit. Got to have massive firepower to kill the proliferation of citizens dags. I get the massive show of force to shut down possible opposition of the bad guys but the bigger hammer you have the more shit looks like a nail and you want to use it. It's kind of like government, it never gets smaller and less restrictive, it's always more more so as time goes on. Same deal here. God help innocent people during a tactical entry. Yes, it happens.
View Quote



Holy shit...you hit most of the items on my "GD derp over police militarization nonsense" bingo card from the 3rd post of the thread.

Grats!
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 6:56:37 AM EST
NOOOOOOO not the cargo pockets
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 6:58:07 AM EST
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Originally Posted By chadjetlag:


Training and responsibility issue than a gear issue.
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Originally Posted By chadjetlag:
Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
Way more of a training issue than an equipment issue IMHO.


Training and responsibility issue than a gear issue.


I would say training and mindset. I think mindset covers responsibility.

I would like to say that an emphasis on non-lethal options should be done. But I think the employment of those has to go along with a mindset change.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 7:03:48 AM EST
I think just beating this into people's heads would help


1.The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder.
2.The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon the public approval of police actions.
3.Police must secure the willing co-operation of the public in voluntary observation of the law to be able to secure and maintain the respect of the public.
4.The degree of co-operation of the public that can be secured diminishes proportionately to the necessity of the use of physical force.
5.Police seek and preserve public favour not by catering to public opinion, but by constantly demonstrating absolute impartial service to the law.
6.Police use physical force to the extent necessary to secure observance of the law or to restore order only when the exercise of persuasion, advice, and warning is found to be insufficient.
7.Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent upon every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.
8.Police should always direct their action strictly towards their functions, and never appear to usurp the powers of the judiciary.
9.The test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with it.
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Link Posted: 12/11/2013 7:07:10 AM EST
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Originally Posted By BillofRights:
The America you grew up in is not today's America.
View Quote

Link Posted: 12/11/2013 7:08:13 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Eddie_Guns:


I would say training and mindset. I think mindset covers responsibility.

I would like to say that an emphasis on non-lethal options should be done. But I think the employment of those has to go along with a mindset change.
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Originally Posted By Eddie_Guns:
Originally Posted By chadjetlag:
Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
Way more of a training issue than an equipment issue IMHO.


Training and responsibility issue than a gear issue.


I would say training and mindset. I think mindset covers responsibility.

I would like to say that an emphasis on non-lethal options should be done. But I think the employment of those has to go along with a mindset change.


Mindset will not change as long as you can literally get away with beating the shit out of someone or just kill them for not respecting your authoritay.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 7:11:00 AM EST
The insight provided by people who have no clue wtf they are talking about is absolutely priceless.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 7:18:30 AM EST
"..in this society".

Problem is, not everybody believes in this society.

There are people that have absolutely no regard for the fabric of this Nation or her society.

Link Posted: 12/11/2013 7:19:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/11/2013 7:20:01 AM EST by ar154all]
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 7:20:53 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ar154all:
"..in this society".

Problem is, not everybody believes in this society.

There are people that have absolutely no regard for the fabric of this Nation or her society.

View Quote



A lot of those types post in GD.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 7:22:32 AM EST
"Protect and serve the public"

sorry bud but its more like "enforce the law"
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 7:27:37 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Springer09:
"Protect and serve the public"

sorry bud but its more like "enforce the law"
View Quote


It's not even that any more. It's "catch people breaking the law".

LE has got so wrapped up in "metrics" and otherwise trying to measure effectiveness that they actually tout failure as success. Departments and officers alike are gauged by their arrest records, while in actuality any arrest is evidence that a crime occurred.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 7:29:34 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ar154all:
"..in this society".

Problem is, not everybody believes in this society.

There are people that have absolutely no regard for the fabric of this Nation or her society.

View Quote


And who are they? The criminals, of course. Is it not also in some cases, liberals, hippies, welfare leeches, obama voters, libertarians, scofflaws, progressives, lenient judges, uneducated juries, stupid drivers, loud cellphone talkers, .07 BAC drivers, dope heads, pro-choicers, and cop haters?

In other words, just about everyone else...

That isn't the problem at all, the reality is we as a nation rely too heavily on government solutions. Government can't fix anything, never has, never will. At best they can temporarily hide the eyesores, but they still resurface eventually. The problem is government over-involvement. The best way for people to solve their problems is themselves as much as possible. The pertinent point for this thread is cut the number of cops by 90%, reinstill in the people the necessity to take care of almost all of their own problems and security. The Nation will again rise to the occasion, not without some difficulties, but at least we won't have an uncontrollable monster to blame for it.

Link Posted: 12/11/2013 7:34:18 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Hugo_Stiglitz:


And who are they? The criminals, of course. Is it not also in some cases, liberals, hippies, welfare leeches, obama voters, libertarians, scofflaws, progressives, lenient judges, uneducated juries, stupid drivers, loud cellphone talkers, .07 BAC drivers, dope heads, pro-choicers, and cop haters?

In other words, just about everyone else...

That isn't the problem at all, the reality is we as a nation rely too heavily on government solutions. Government can't fix anything, never has, never will. At best they can temporarily hide the eyesores, but they still resurface eventually. The problem is government over-involvement. The best way for people to solve their problems is themselves as much as possible. The pertinent point for this thread is cut the number of cops by 90%, reinstill in the people the necessity to take care of almost all of their own problems and security. The Nation will again rise to the occasion, not without some difficulties, but at least we won't have an uncontrollable monster to blame for it.

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Originally Posted By Hugo_Stiglitz:
Originally Posted By ar154all:
"..in this society".

Problem is, not everybody believes in this society.

There are people that have absolutely no regard for the fabric of this Nation or her society.



And who are they? The criminals, of course. Is it not also in some cases, liberals, hippies, welfare leeches, obama voters, libertarians, scofflaws, progressives, lenient judges, uneducated juries, stupid drivers, loud cellphone talkers, .07 BAC drivers, dope heads, pro-choicers, and cop haters?

In other words, just about everyone else...

That isn't the problem at all, the reality is we as a nation rely too heavily on government solutions. Government can't fix anything, never has, never will. At best they can temporarily hide the eyesores, but they still resurface eventually. The problem is government over-involvement. The best way for people to solve their problems is themselves as much as possible. The pertinent point for this thread is cut the number of cops by 90%, reinstill in the people the necessity to take care of almost all of their own problems and security. The Nation will again rise to the occasion, not without some difficulties, but at least we won't have an uncontrollable monster to blame for it.


Winner.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 7:39:38 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Shenanigunz:
lol
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Link Posted: 12/11/2013 7:40:25 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Extorris:
Originally Posted By BillofRights:
The America you grew up in is not today's America.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v361/Extorris/Pics/acab_zps79477a69.jpg

ACAB, lol.

This is an excellent read:

Link Posted: 12/11/2013 7:40:31 AM EST
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Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
Departments and officers alike are gauged by their arrest records, while in actuality any arrest is evidence that a crime occurred.
View Quote

Which is why we were sometimes discouraged from charging the appropriate felony charge for an arrest. Commanding Officer didn't want a felony reported in his precinct that he'd have to answer for to the Chief at Comstat.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 7:41:17 AM EST
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Originally Posted By kozaki:

ACAB, lol.
This is an excellent read:
http://www.spyemporium.com/images/products/st-pf.jpg
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Originally Posted By kozaki:
Originally Posted By Extorris:
Originally Posted By BillofRights:
The America you grew up in is not today's America.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v361/Extorris/Pics/acab_zps79477a69.jpg

ACAB, lol.
This is an excellent read:
http://www.spyemporium.com/images/products/st-pf.jpg

Link Posted: 12/11/2013 7:42:02 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Extorris:
Originally Posted By BillofRights:
The America you grew up in is not today's America.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v361/Extorris/Pics/acab_zps79477a69.jpg


Link Posted: 12/11/2013 7:42:11 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Extorris:
Originally Posted By kozaki:
Originally Posted By Extorris:
Originally Posted By BillofRights:
The America you grew up in is not today's America.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v361/Extorris/Pics/acab_zps79477a69.jpg

ACAB, lol.
This is an excellent read:
http://www.spyemporium.com/images/products/st-pf.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v361/Extorris/Pics/Friendly_zpsefc169e9.jpg

Oh no, Jimmy.

BOHICA!!

Link Posted: 12/11/2013 7:45:40 AM EST
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Originally Posted By BillofRights:
Was "Protect and Serve" ever more than just a slogan? Not sure it was. The question deserves it's own thread.
View Quote

No, it's much more than a slogan.

Link Posted: 12/11/2013 7:56:48 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:00:01 AM EST
Sorry I'm late... are we jerking ourselves off again about how great the cops used to be?

Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:00:34 AM EST
A patrolman with a tourniquet on his dutybelt stamped on my rights
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:02:47 AM EST
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Originally Posted By runcible:
Sorry I'm late... are we jerking ourselves off again about how great the cops used to be?

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Ahh yes... the days of 'street justice'.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:05:32 AM EST
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:

Ahh yes... the days of 'street justice'.
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Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By runcible:
Sorry I'm late... are we jerking ourselves off again about how great the cops used to be?

Ahh yes... the days of 'street justice'.

Excuse me, you mean "The Good Old Days of Policing".
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:09:45 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Extorris:

No, it's much more than a slogan.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v361/Extorris/Pics/pension_zpsbc6cd53f.jpg
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Originally Posted By Extorris:
Originally Posted By BillofRights:
Was "Protect and Serve" ever more than just a slogan? Not sure it was. The question deserves it's own thread.

No, it's much more than a slogan.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v361/Extorris/Pics/pension_zpsbc6cd53f.jpg




'Zactly.

Oldpainlesss said in another thread long ago, that they used to beat the piss outa guys back in the good old days.

...but somehow, I think they used to confine that treatment to the "bad guys". Hobos, Criminals and other Miscreants.

In any case, there was definitely more of a perception of "Officer Friendly" amongst the Middle Class.

Maybe the cops just cared more about PR bitd.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:12:42 AM EST
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Originally Posted By BillofRights:
In any case, there was definitely more of a perception of "Officer Friendly" amongst the Middle Class.
View Quote

Because they were ignorant. Videotaping and internet has changed that.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:15:08 AM EST
This is the first I'm hearing about this "militarization"...
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:25:31 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:29:25 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BillofRights:




'Zactly.

Oldpainlesss said in another thread long ago, that they used to beat the piss outa guys back in the good old days.

...but somehow, I think they used to confine that treatment to the "bad guys". Hobos, Criminals and other Miscreants.

In any case, there was definitely more of a perception of "Officer Friendly" amongst the Middle Class.

Maybe the cops just cared more about PR bitd.
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Originally Posted By BillofRights:
Originally Posted By Extorris:
Originally Posted By BillofRights:
Was "Protect and Serve" ever more than just a slogan? Not sure it was. The question deserves it's own thread.

No, it's much more than a slogan.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v361/Extorris/Pics/pension_zpsbc6cd53f.jpg




'Zactly.

Oldpainlesss said in another thread long ago, that they used to beat the piss outa guys back in the good old days.

...but somehow, I think they used to confine that treatment to the "bad guys". Hobos, Criminals and other Miscreants.

In any case, there was definitely more of a perception of "Officer Friendly" amongst the Middle Class.

Maybe the cops just cared more about PR bitd.


You mean some of the youtube films posted here?
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:29:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/11/2013 8:29:53 AM EST by Snips]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Extorris:

Because they were ignorant. Videotaping and internet has changed that.
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Originally Posted By Extorris:
Originally Posted By BillofRights:
In any case, there was definitely more of a perception of "Officer Friendly" amongst the Middle Class.

Because they were ignorant. Videotaping and internet has changed that.


No shit. Perception of corruption goes up as actual corruption is going down. It's weird.
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:32:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:34:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/11/2013 8:36:53 AM EST by Gelgoog]






Link Posted: 12/11/2013 8:35:29 AM EST
Funny how the last couple of decades of "militarization" has led to reduced crime rates, the lowest homicide rates in a century, and very reduced LEO line-of-duty deaths.
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