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Posted: 10/14/2004 3:10:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/14/2004 3:14:21 AM EST by cyanide]
Lucasville --Ohio

Man in prison who killed a businessman --
EXECUTED

Mother says --- "they took my baby"

Well the man he killed -- was someones baby


www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 3:23:23 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 3:24:11 AM EST
I voted unsure mainly for this reason. How do you balance the need for some people to be executed (which some plainly deserve) with the possability of executing an innocent person.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 3:29:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By GhostShooter:
I voted unsure mainly for this reason. How do you balance the need for some people to be executed (which some plainly deserve) with the possability of executing an innocent person.



Charles Manson SHOULD be toast. And Cap pun should be reserved for those types of cases.

Ask yourself this "Is 30 years incarceration a cake walk?? Is it possible they wrongly incarcerate someone for 30 years?"

Yes, CP is permanent, but mistakes while rare are the BEST we can do as humans.

Link Posted: 10/14/2004 3:32:00 AM EST
Try'em and FRY'em. No sense in spending all of the money feeding and housing their asses for the rest of their lives.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 3:32:45 AM EST

Charles Manson SHOULD be toast. And Cap pun should be reserved for those types of cases.

Ask yourself this "Is 30 years incarceration a cake walk?? Is it possible they wrongly incarcerate someone for 30 years?"

Yes, CP is permanent, but mistakes while rare are the BEST we can do as humans.



No 30 years of incarceration isn't a cake walk but there still exists the possability that justice will be served and an innocent man could be set free. Yes I agree that people like Charles Mason should be toast (as I said in my 1st post) but what is an acceptiable margin of error in executing innocent people?? 1%, 5%.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 3:33:34 AM EST
Prisons of violent felons should be turned into organ farms.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 3:34:00 AM EST
on one hand the death penalty is a just punishment for murder, but I dont believe we should give the govt the power to kill us legally.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 3:36:03 AM EST
You know, a .22 rimfire bullet to the back of the head would save us taxpayers a lot of money.

Just a thought . . .

CMOS
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 3:37:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/14/2004 3:37:51 AM EST by cyanide]

Originally Posted By CMOS:
You know, a .22 rimfire bullet to the back of the head would save us taxpayers a lot of money.

Just a thought . . .

CMOS



Yeah Russia has the edge on us with that mode of execution ...
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 3:41:12 AM EST
eye for an eye
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 3:42:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By repub18:
on one hand the death penalty is a just punishment for murder, but I dont believe we should give the govt the power to kill us legally.



They, and society, already have it.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 3:43:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/14/2004 3:44:17 AM EST by garandman]

Originally Posted By GhostShooter:

No 30 years of incarceration isn't a cake walk but there still exists the possability that justice will be served and an innocent man could be set free. Yes I agree that people like Charles Mason should be toast (as I said in my 1st post) but what is an acceptiable margin of error in executing innocent people?? 1%, 5%.



Mebbe if wannabe crims thought they might be executed wrongly, they'd live FAR AWAY from the life of crime.

I have NO FEAR of being executed wrongly, cuz I live so straight and narrow. I'm outright dull.

Fact is error is part of the justice system.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 3:45:01 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 3:47:27 AM EST

Mebbe if wannabe crims thought they might be executed worngly, they'd live FAR AWAY from the life of crime.


First, the death penality hasn't shown any benefit as a deterent to violent crime. Second, the state is executing people on OUR behalf so it kinda bothers me if an innocent person is executed.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 3:50:46 AM EST
I'm all for it in serial murder or something similar. A bit hard to make mistakes in serial murder. Not saying it can't happen.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 4:04:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By GhostShooter:

First, the death penality hasn't shown any benefit as a deterent to violent crime. .



You can read peoples minds???

NO WAY you can quantify crims who DIDN'T kill people AND WHY they didn't kill them.

Any study that proposes to make such a supposition is a fools errand.

All you can do is make a LOGICALLY based supposition - ANY time a criminal thinks he may get caught, it JUST MAKES SENSE they'll modify their behaviour.

So EVERY seat of the pants anaylsis tells us CP is a deterrent to crime.

And its 100% effective in preventing repeat ofenders. No deterrent? Most EVERY study tells us a too large percentage of murders are done by REPEAT OFFENDERS. Exectute them the first time, and no one else gets murdered.

Don't buy into the liberal crap.



Link Posted: 10/14/2004 4:12:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
Yes, CP is permanent, but mistakes while rare are the BEST we can do as humans.

ask the 11 guys wrongly convicted by crooked cops and prosecutors that were released from death row in ill. just how 'rare' the 'mistakes' are.

ask them if taking their life is the 'best' we can do...as humans.


make no mistake, i'm for the death penalty in limited cases/circumstances, but there are some very disturbing trends in our 'justice' systems.



Were ALL of the charges on their rap sheet faked? Or just the death penalty ones...

Look at what the "innocent victims" of Bernie Goetz did with the rest of their lives...
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 4:13:08 AM EST

You can read peoples minds???

NO WAY you can quantify crims who DIDN'T kill people AND WHY they didn't kill them.

Any study that proposes to make such a supposition is a fools errand.

All you can do is make a LOGICALLY based supposition - ANY time a criminal thinks he may get caught, it JUST MAKES SENSE they'll modify their behaviour.

So EVERY seat of the pants anaylsis tells us CP is a deterrent to crime.

And its 100% effective in preventing repeat ofenders. No deterrent? Most EVERY study tells us a too large percentage of murders are done by REPEAT OFFENDERS. Exectute them the first time, and no one else gets murdered.

Don't buy into the liberal crap.



Ok, 1st yes I can read minds (don't tell anyone

Seriously though, most muders are commited in the" heat of the moment" therefore no deterent would have benefited the victim (this was determined through statistical data of circumstances of crimes and interviews with offerders, sorry I don't have the books in front of me with the exact stats so you'll have to look them up on the internet). This is also why murder has one of the lowest recidivism rates. So, if you have data suggesting otherwise please share it.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 4:23:10 AM EST
Good riddance to a POS. He & his buddy admit that they were doped up and drunk when they
robbed the two guys.
His quote,

"I'm more valuable alive than dead"
just floors me. Valuable for what? Sucking up our
tax dollars while you rot in prison? Maybe if we used you for medical experimentation it might be a
slight payoff, but otherwise, sorry, no tears shed here.

Color me jaded, but I can speak from experience when I say that seeing the oxygen-thief who killed
my fiancee do the kickin'-chicken would be one of the highlights of my life. I'd go home and not lose
a wink of sleep over it. Hell, I'd volunteer to drop the hammer on him myself, but they won't allow
that, so.....
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 4:26:55 AM EST
Good!!!

More states need capitol punshment
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 4:30:15 AM EST
I like the idea of prisons for murdering scumbags and captured Jihadists being used as "Storage repositories for (at least awhile) living organ doners.The "cost" received by the state for the "sale"of the harvested organs would ALL go to the perps victems family.

"Sorry Charlie Manson, we sold your kidneys to a 'buy now' bidder on Organ Broker.com., So it looks like this will be your last night with us as you are scheduled for 'recycle' tommorow morning......Oh and your brain is going to be kept alive with Usama Ben Laudins........ in a jar.........in a pain amplifier.........forever.Bwaaaaaaahaaaaahaaaaa."


"Oh yes,the reason you are feeling drowsy and detached is that you have been pre-medicated.It was in the fruit juice.I lied the operation is........now........."
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 4:33:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By GhostShooter:

Ok, 1st yes I can read minds (don't tell anyone

Seriously though, most muders are commited in the" heat of the moment" therefore no deterent would have benefited the victim (this was determined through statistical data of circumstances of crimes and interviews with offerders, sorry I don't have the books in front of me with the exact stats so you'll have to look them up on the internet). This is also why murder has one of the lowest recidivism rates. So, if you have data suggesting otherwise please share it.



"Heat of the moment" murders are often done under the influence of alcohol and drugs, and then always at moments of irrationaity.

The idea that I may suffer a horrible death execution style SPURS rationality, and pushes people toward being more careful with alcohol and drugs.

And if it doesn't, SCREW 'EM. They need to die if they abuse common sense by abusing alcohol and drugs and then act irrationality and murder soemone.

Its kinda like the insanity defense for murder. OF COURSE they are insane - THEY MURDERED SOMEONE.



Link Posted: 10/14/2004 4:35:44 AM EST
The good thing about life sentences is that innocent people can get out. The bad thing about life sentences is that bad people can get out too.

If somebody murdered someone close to me or I helped put one of those monsters away, I wouldn't want there to be ANY chance of them getting free. Death is the only way to guarantee that 100 percent.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 4:36:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By GhostShooter:

Mebbe if wannabe crims thought they might be executed worngly, they'd live FAR AWAY from the life of crime.


First, the death penality hasn't shown any benefit as a deterent to violent crime. Second, the state is executing people on OUR behalf so it kinda bothers me if an innocent person is executed.



Are you forgetting about the lack of repeat offenders?
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 4:40:32 AM EST
Cap. punishment doesn't really accomplish anything except empower the government to decide when we can die, and provide a cheap thrill to the "eye for an eye" crowd. So no I don't support giving government that power just some someone can "feel good" about watching a "dirtbag" die. Feeling and emotions are the language of liberals!

Alternatives to capital punishment:
* Life in prison, no parole (also cheaper)
* Forced labor to pay restitution to victims' families
* Deportation to Iraq or Afghanistant or some other place they are unlikely to return from

Those are a few I've thought of. From a practical standpoint, cap. punishment doesn't accomplish anything beneficial.

-Nick Viejo.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 4:54:26 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 5:16:49 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 5:28:44 AM EST
I am for capital punishment - as long as the government is good and just.

However, we cannot always rely on the government to be good and just.

What if somebody like Kerry or even Hillary(OMG!) got in and made ownership of a gun a capital punishment offense? And let's say they maybe even made some appointments to "stack" the Supreme Court, so they could make their edicts stick.

Then it is a different story, isn't it?

It is very dangerous to put any power in the hands of government, because it is the nature of burocracies to abuse their power.

As long as the government is good and just, we are safe.
When they are not, we have a problem.
The power we delegate to our government(that we trust) today, can be abused against us in the future, if bad people get into control.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 5:30:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/14/2004 5:31:19 AM EST by cyanide]

Originally Posted By twl:
I am for capital punishment - as long as the government is good and just.

However, we cannot always rely on the government to be good and just.

What if somebody like Kerry or even Hillary(OMG!) got in and made ownership of a gun a capital punishment offense? And let's say they maybe even made some appointments to "stack" the Supreme Court, so they could make their edicts stick.

Then it is a different story, isn't it?

It is very dangerous to put any power in the hands of government, because it is the nature of burocracies to abuse their power.

As long as the government is good and just, we are safe.
When they are not, we have a problem.
The power we delegate to our government(that we trust) today, can be abused against us in the future, if bad people get into control.



I see little if any real difference in spending 25-30 years in prison and being executed / in any event your life is over.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 5:35:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By GhostShooter:

Mebbe if wannabe crims thought they might be executed worngly, they'd live FAR AWAY from the life of crime.


First, the death penality hasn't shown any benefit as a deterent to violent crime. Second, the state is executing people on OUR behalf so it kinda bothers me if an innocent person is executed.



Works for the majority of us, just not the dedicated. I personally never think of it as a deterrent. It is simply the deal the killer/murderer has made, a trade if you will, his life for the one taken. Remember, his act came first. If the deal was unacceptable he could just forget about killing/murdering.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 5:42:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By cyanide:

I see little if any real difference in spending 25-30 years in prison and being executed / in any event your life is over.




I agree. I'd rather be dead than caged.

Give me liberty, or give me death.

Link Posted: 10/14/2004 5:45:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/14/2004 5:51:35 AM EST by garandman]

Originally Posted By N_Viejo:
Cap. punishment doesn't really accomplish anything except empower the government to decide when we can die,
-Nick Viejo.




Do you REALLY beleive this crap??

REALLY?????????????????????????­?????????????????????????????????????????????­??

It does NOT empower the gov't to tell you when you die.

YOU determine when you die BY MURDERING SOMEONE.

Your DECISION to murder is your PERMISSION SLIP YOU have provided to the gov't to wax your sorry carcass.

("you" being used generically)


Use your $&$^% brain. Don't repeat liberal crap you heard in gov't re-education camps . ("you" being used specifically)




Link Posted: 10/14/2004 5:48:50 AM EST
I have no problem with the principle of capital punishment...I just think that it's implementation has been flawed in more than a few cases here in the US, as Campybob pointed out.

Particularly heinous crimes put a lot of pressure on law enforecement and the DA's office to get a quick arrest and conviction. There is no doubt in my mind that in some cases, this has lead to the convictions of innocent people. I'm not one of those who believes "so what" if we icarcerate/execute innocent people, so I want to be DAMN sure that we get it right, especially if we plan on terminating them for their crime.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 5:51:15 AM EST
A number of years back two inmates being transferred took control of the transportation van. They were almost to Oklahoma when they got caught.

Both of the corrections officers were still alive. The ONLY reason they weren't killed? Because killing someone in the act of another crime is a capital offense in Texas.

The death penalty is the sole reason those two officers are alive today.

Two "innocent" lives saved..... because of the threat of capitol punishment.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 5:53:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By Myke:
A number of years back two inmates being transferred took control of the transportation van. They were almost to Oklahoma when they got caught.

Both of the corrections officers were still alive. The ONLY reason they weren't killed? Because killing someone in the act of another crime is a capital offense in Texas.

The death penalty is the sole reason those two officers are alive today.

Two "innocent" lives saved..... because of the threat of capitol punishment.



Thank you for FINALLY a sane logical voice.

GEEZ we're screwed as a nation.

Link Posted: 10/14/2004 6:13:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/14/2004 6:15:50 AM EST by Fireguy3]
No woman they did not take your baby!!!!!!!!!

They just carried out the abortion you shoulda had all those years ago!!!!!

They say Capital Punishment is not a deterent, the hell it ain't i don't know of a single case where the person executed has re offended!!!
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 6:20:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By grywlf52:
Try'em and FRY'em. No sense in spending all of the money feeding and housing their asses for the rest of their lives.



+1

" The only place for a hardened criminal is in the ground "


Link Posted: 10/14/2004 6:28:20 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 7:20:24 AM EST
Another reason to like Bush.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 7:23:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
Were ALL of the charges on their rap sheet faked? Or just the death penalty ones...

it's easy to grab a ready-made perp from the files.

tell me, should we execute people that commit robbery? i mean, i know many on this board advocate the execution of drunk drivers? how about j-walkers? unpaid traffic tickets?

if the case is airtight, the crime heinous enough (i.e., not for grand theft, auto), the evidence overwhelming...i think capital punishment is fitting. it has been shown, of late, that are more than just 'rare' instances of errors in rendering a verdict.

some of the 'errors' were very deliberate and criminal in their own right.




Why not? We used to hang people for stealing as recently as 150 years ago.

However, the only time I worry about a "innocent" man being sent to death row is a man who has NO priors at all. Even then I look to the evidence.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 7:34:34 AM EST
I am for capital punishment for extreme circumstances. True "Heat of the Moment" crimes almost never get the death penalty specifically because they are not premeditated. Cop-killers, serial killers, murderers who torture their victims, child killers all have no place in my heart for sympathy. If they find God while waiting for their time to go, that is between him/her and God and should not be a reason for exemption.

However, I do believe that when the death penalty is on the table, the defendant should be given access to independant crime scene analysis tools, most notably, DNA analysis. This is an extremely expensive procedure that only the more wealthy defendants can afford to do on their own; if the government is going to take a life, then they should give the defendant every opportunity to prove himself innocent. I also believe that DNA analysis should be made available to convicts on death row who were convicted without the benefits of this and other tools. I find this a satisfactory solution to the complaints of anti-cap punishment advocates.

Once the defendant has been able to present his case with these tools and has been found guilty in a court of law, throw the switch, push the plunger, and turn on the gas
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 7:35:45 AM EST
The bottom like is that cold blooded murder is wrong, He who lives by the sword shal die by it. I f you take an innocent persons life yours should be too. There is no reason why hard working tax payers dollars should be used to support criminals in prison who broke the law and are not giving back to society. I f you kill, rape, of molest you should die.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 7:38:18 AM EST

Try'em and FRY'em. No sense in spending all of the money feeding and housing their asses for the rest of their lives.


I read once it costs more to execute someone than to imprission them for life... I don't know how true that is.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 7:41:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By GhostShooter:

Mebbe if wannabe crims thought they might be executed worngly, they'd live FAR AWAY from the life of crime.


First, the death penality hasn't shown any benefit as a deterent to violent crime. Second, the state is executing people on OUR behalf so it kinda bothers me if an innocent person is executed.



I am not concerned with "deterence". I am concerned about punishment fitting the crime and the fact that if a convicted murderer is baked-broiled-gassed-hung-fried or injected, he/she will not kill again!

Works quite well for me. I have met baby rapers and serial killers, and they richly deserve to die.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 7:44:46 AM EST


Originally Posted By cyanide:

I see little if any real difference in spending 25-30 years in prison and being executed / in any event your life is over.


I agree. I'd rather be dead than caged.

Give me liberty, or give me death.



"They send you here for life, that's exactly what they take. The part that counts, anyways." -Shawshank Redemption
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 7:45:32 AM EST
After reading the account...I have no problem with the execution. If the stupid ass wasn't committing an armed robbery and killed an innocent guy..he wouldn't be dead..now would he?

Link Posted: 10/14/2004 7:49:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By tjmz:
I am for capital punishment for extreme circumstances. True "Heat of the Moment" crimes almost never get the death penalty specifically because they are not premeditated. Cop-killers, serial killers, murderers who torture their victims, child killers all have no place in my heart for sympathy. If they find God while waiting for their time to go, that is between him/her and God and should not be a reason for exemption.

However, I do believe that when the death penalty is on the table, the defendant should be given access to independant crime scene analysis tools, most notably, DNA analysis. This is an extremely expensive procedure that only the more wealthy defendants can afford to do on their own; if the government is going to take a life, then they should give the defendant every opportunity to prove himself innocent. I also believe that DNA analysis should be made available to convicts on death row who were convicted without the benefits of this and other tools. I find this a satisfactory solution to the complaints of anti-cap punishment advocates.

Once the defendant has been able to present his case with these tools and has been found guilty in a court of law, throw the switch, push the plunger, and turn on the gas



A person on trial for their life GETS that today, all the men released in Illinois were convicted before such things existed. And I have nothing against going through the backlog of death penalty cases that exist and applying new technology to them. That doesn't invalidate the existance of the death penalty itself.

And it does cost more right now to sentance someone to die than to life. That is also a artifically imposed cost cause by abuse of the appeals process by trial lawyers. There really is no reason why someone cannot be executed within 60 days of his trial- like the assassin of William McKinley was in 1901.
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 7:49:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By GhostShooter:

the death penality hasn't shown any benefit as a deterent to violent crime.



kinda hard to commit crimes when YOU'RE DEAD!!!

Link Posted: 10/14/2004 7:57:49 AM EST
Did anyone catch from the article that they guys Cousin was also on death row?

What a f'd up family...
Link Posted: 10/14/2004 8:23:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By PointlessSilly:

Try'em and FRY'em. No sense in spending all of the money feeding and housing their asses for the rest of their lives.


I read once it costs more to execute someone than to imprission them for life... I don't know how true that is.



That is correct. Its is many times more expensive to execute a prisoner than it is to lock them up and throw away the key.
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