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Posted: 9/13/2004 4:48:36 PM EST
I called Bachman Pawn and Gun out of Dallas today. They had advertised in Shotgun News that if the ban expired to call for LEO rifles ($889 for an LEO M4). Well, guess what? The price has magically risen to $1200. That's right, a $300+ price increase "overnight". The guy at Bachman seemed nice enough and blamed the increase on the jobbers (the guys between the manufacturers/wholesalers and the dealers).

Regardless of who's to blame this is price gouging pure and simple. Spare me the "he's just trying to make a living" bullshit. FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN GREED WE ARE GOING TO PAY NEARLY "PRE-BAN" PRICES FOR "NO-BAN" GUNS!!!

I hope they starve.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:50:16 PM EST
Supply and demand man. Until yesterday, you have relatively few cops and LE angencies buying the LE rifles. Now everyone and their brother wants one. Demand literally went up overnight.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:51:18 PM EST
Give it time.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:51:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By ABNAK:
I called Bachman Pawn and Gun out of Dallas today. They had advertised in Shotgun News that if the ban expired to call for LEO rifles ($889 for an LEO M4). Well, guess what? The price has magically risen to $1200. That's right, a $300+ price increase "overnight". The guy at Bachman seemed nice enough and blamed the increase on the jobbers (the guys between the manufacturers/wholesalers and the dealers).

Regardless of who's to blame this is price gouging pure and simple. Spare me the "he's just trying to make a living" bullshit. FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN GREED WE ARE GOING TO be asked to PAY NEARLY "PRE-BAN" PRICES FOR "NO-BAN" GUNS!!!

I hope they starve.



Fixed it. Call them back and tell them what you think.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:52:00 PM EST
When they are still holding on to them in a few months and other are selling them as fast as they get them in, maybe the little light will come on.

<----post 556, finally
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:54:52 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:57:05 PM EST
The hell with that.

Buy your parts and build your own.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:59:11 PM EST
50 round 10/22 mags have gone up over 50%
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:59:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By Spade:
The hell with that.

Buy your parts and build your own.





+1 Who died and made Colt King
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:00:06 PM EST
I know the supply and demand thing but this is ridiculous. Not that I didn't expect it, though. I'm not blaming this particular shop but the bigger picture. Sure, not too many cops bought LEO M4's. But now that they are legal to us peons once again, viola---CHA-CHING!!!


I can only hope "they" have to eat their stock of LEO guns to survive!


BTW, I converted my Colt MT-6400C today and the receiver says "M4 Carbine" on it. The LEO models don't!
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:02:06 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:02:09 PM EST
$100 stripped lower
add one parts kit (or buy a complete lower if you're not into building)
mix in an upper of your chosen configuration
=complete rifle exactly how you want it for much less
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:11:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:
The demand bit is the most asinine reasoning that I have ever heard. A week ago there were few of these rifles being sold, at $889, yet today they are able to sell all that they can get thier hands on, so they rasie the price to $1200? It would have made more sense to have a higher margin on a low turn over product, where you have to work harder selling it, and your captial is tied up in in longer, as it is now these rifels could be sold very quickly with little effort so they jack the price. It may make them a few extra duccats now, but in the end will cost them dearly, everytime soemone calls thier shop and asks about thier guns and they tell them $1200, that is one more person who will not be calling back the next time they are in the market for a rifle. I myself don't shop at the places that I know have absurdly high prices, and if I ran into a dealer who decides they will go for the quick buck, I am not going to be giving them a chance later.



That's EXACTLY what I was thinking. More available sales SHOULD = lower prices! I'm sorry, that equation doesn't factor in GREED!


Where's our economics majors when we need them???
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:19:21 PM EST
wait until the first ship from china, russia, etc. hits the American coast. all prices will drop.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:19:33 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:21:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By ABNAK:
I know the supply and demand thing but this is ridiculous. Not that I didn't expect it, though. I'm not blaming this particular shop but thebigger picture.



yeah, that goddamn capitalism!

I will never understand why people complain about prices. A shopowner can set the price he wants, and the item will either sell or it won't. It pains me to see a fellow gunowner that isn't a fan of capitalism.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:24:04 PM EST
If you're not an LEO, why would you want to own an LEO gun?

See Marpat
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:24:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:

Originally Posted By ABNAK:
I know the supply and demand thing but this is ridiculous. Not that I didn't expect it, though. I'm not blaming this particular shop but thebigger picture.



yeah, that goddamn capitalism!

I will never understand why people complain about prices. A shopowner can set the price he wants, and the item will either sell or it won't. It pains me to see a fellow gunowner that isn't a fan of capitalism.



Not everyone genuinely loves capitalism. I do...it's entirely logical, fair, and a beautiful system. Some people don't get it.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:40:16 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 7:55:30 PM EST
There are many people willing to pay $1,200.00 for a Colt 16" semi auto M4 clone, that until yesterday could not be bought at any price.

Now raising prices on old stock postban guns would not make sense. The prices on those should be dropping significantly. In a few months, after production has cought up with increased demand, prices will be back in the $850.00 range.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 7:57:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:
There should be no real overpowering of the supplyside outside of a very short period...



How many Colt LEO marked M4's do you thing the average small town gun shop has on hand?
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 7:57:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By Misery:
Give it time.



I agree and also remember witch dealers jacked the prices and never spend another dime in their shop. I personally don't go for the "Demand" BS, its pure greed.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 7:59:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By ABNAK:

BTW, I converted my Colt MT-6400C today and the receiver says "M4 Carbine" on it.



I would love to have one of those Colt lowers. unfortunately colt did not start making that model until after our ban. so all my Colts are Sporter and Match target series rifles, and one CAR-A3 HBAR Elite.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 8:00:48 PM EST
I havent went shopping for anything yet. Im going to wait for prices to get to a more even level and know what the current "good price" for stuff is first.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 8:06:37 PM EST
Do you 'girls' have to have handbags that say "Gucci" on them, too?

Man up and leave all that fashion name stuff in the women's department.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 8:09:47 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 8:11:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By ABNAK:
FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN GREED WE ARE GOING TO PAY NEARLY "PRE-BAN" PRICES FOR "NO-BAN" GUNS!!!



Oh No we're NOT. Well, me anyway.


Seems like this might be a good time to find bargains on certain
..uh, post-ban, ..umh prior-post-ban, ...
Guns made in the last 10 years.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 8:11:58 PM EST
How many dealers only have 1 or 2 on the shelf so they can get a few extra dollars for it.

Now after you pay more since they are asking abit higher since they are in short supply you get your new AR, leave the store they get another from stock in the back and put it up there and it becomes the only one they have again.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 8:13:19 PM EST
Glad I got mine from Bachman's last April!!!!
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 8:19:56 PM EST
6920 for $860 here.........

PLAN AHEAD
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 8:20:12 PM EST
Offer a good product at a good price and your customers may tell one or two people about your business. The inverse is that if your potential customers feel cheated, then they will tell as many people as they can about your business practices.

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 8:24:35 PM EST
When I heard about the ban sunsetting I decided I was going to purchase a Colt M4. This is a rifle which in a similar form had been selling for around 2000 (pre-ban) dollars last time I looked. Now of the gun stores in my town, there is really only one that would have had these guns as regular stock before the sunset, a police supply store. There are a couple of other stores in town who usually have one or two of this type of rifle on an occasional basis. When I got up this morning, I made the rounds and hit all my regular haunts. Nobody had ANY LEO guns including this store. We are talking an hour or two after the stores open and ALL of the LEO guns that anybody had in stock were gone.

When I got home, I called around and ended up finding a dealer that I don't usually go to (small shop mostly dealing in class three) who said he had these guns in stock for 1200 bucks.
I checked gun broker, I checked auction arms, I checked gunsamerica, I checked ar15.com, I checked glocktalk.com, I checked thefiringline.com, and all of these places were showing adds for at least 1200 bucks for this gun, or were completely out. The one exception was here on ar15.com where steyraug is selling them for $1100 bucks but has no idea of his delivery time. (before anyone complains, I appreciate his doing a group buy and think his price is reasonable...). There were such a limited number of these guns around at MOST dealers that they are going to be hard to come by for a while. The majority of dealers I talked to told me that their distributors didn't even have any of these and to check back in a couple of weeks.

If you want one of these guns NOW, you are going to have to pay the price. Its simple economics. You can call it price gouging, you can call it greed, you can call it what you want. But the fact is, if bachman pawn or anyone else were to sell them for $895, the first guy to call the store would have bought them all and put them up for 1200 anyway. I work in electronics retail and this has happened with anything that's in demand. My store sells mini ipods from apple at the regular retail price. 8 months ago when the stupid thing came out they were rare as hell. If we got any in, I guarantee the first guy to find out would buy them all and I would see them up on ebay later that day selling for 50 to 100 bucks more than the retail price.

Greed is a two way street. You are greedy for having to have it NOW and not waiting for a better price, and the dealer is greedy for wanting to get the most possible money for his products.

Given the low markups and the general condition the firearms industry is in right now, I think it's probably a breath of fresh air for them that they can get a real markup on a product for once.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 8:26:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:
There should be no real overpowering of the supplyside outside of a very short period...



How many Colt LEO marked M4's do you thing the average small town gun shop has on hand?



Is there anything preventing them from ordering more?



nope, as as soon as Colt and QPI/Bushmaster starts shiping them in quantity the price will come down. But those who want one, right now, are going to pay more.

Some dealers were smart, and ordered lots of LEO rifles and mags in anticipation of the sunset. But not every gunshop/hardware store took that gamble.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 8:32:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By ABNAK:
Colt.... and the receiver says "M4 Carbine" on it.



Contrary to my prior post in this thread, I seriously want a Colt lower marked as above.
So who's sellin' and how much?

(I have a bastardized Sporter Lightweight lower marked 7.62x39 under a M-4 5.56 upper. Need to return the properly chambered upper to its mate, get a new lower and make 2 rifles out of the current 1.5 of this set.)
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 8:35:50 PM EST
Local shop had a Bushy LEO/GOV M4 this morning. $850

Thats why he is a good guy!
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 8:38:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 8:44:33 PM EST by Rip_Roarin_Wacko]
Just build your own. I have a Eagle Arms($100 fun show purchase) lower with a RRA trigger ( gift) in it . A2 stock ($20 complete with spring and buffer and tube at a flea market). Lower parts kit from ADCO for $59.
I have a grand total of $179 in it. I just scrounged around for a year looking for deals, and it's been setting in the safe waiting for this day to come.

I ordered the upper for it today from RB Precision.
RRA A4 receiver with bolt, carrier, and CH. Chrome lined 16" M4 barrel, 4 rail float tube, YHM folding front site and gas block, ARMS #40 rear site and a 6 position stock.

And Krista was nice enough to drop the shipping charges when I told her ARFCOM sent me.

So it came in at a shade less than $850, and I now have a brand new spare A2 stock to sell so I'm figuring total cash outlay for a great rifle of about $800.

Not everone is gouging. Just walk away from those that do. Look what happened to all the guys with their $2000 prebans. HAR HAR
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 8:47:44 PM EST
so do the cops have to pay this higher price or do they get the original. i would think LE would be pissed to wait until the price corrects itself. the shop i was in had 6 LEO AR's a week ago and they were off the shelf 3pm today. the shop threw in a 50% markup on their glock LEO mags for good measure. i feel the hangover and didn't even get to party!!
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 9:07:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 9:09:19 PM EST by magnum_99]
Who cares what they are charging. Get the parts and put them together yourself.

CMMG mil-spec M4gery 1/7 twist chrome-lined flattop upper--$500

Stag Arms (makes RRA) lower w/ internals but no stock--$170 with FFL transfer

VLTOR modstock kit with H buffer--$159

LMT BUIS--$119

Badass NO BAN AR--$948 total

Not much more than Colt's LEO M4 and I have the LMT BUIS and VLTOR improvements.

Who the hell needs a Colt anyway? Their prices are RIDICULUS and their quality is no better than the others IMO.

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 9:28:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By Rip_Roarin_Wacko:
Just build your own.



+1

Any lower
Accuracy Speaks trigger
VLTOR Stock
Battlegrip
LMT Brl'd Upper
ARMS 40L BUIS
KAC RASII

Better to just build it the way you want it.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 9:30:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By rockymtnhi:
so do the cops have to pay this higher price or do they get the original.



agency direct sales dont have the 11% FET imposed.

Glock has already said they will continue to offer discounted prices to LE Agencies.
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