User Panel
Posted: 9/13/2004 5:48:36 PM EDT
I called Bachman Pawn and Gun out of Dallas today. They had advertised in Shotgun News that if the ban expired to call for LEO rifles ($889 for an LEO M4). Well, guess what? The price has magically risen to $1200. That's right, a $300+ price increase "overnight". The guy at Bachman seemed nice enough and blamed the increase on the jobbers (the guys between the manufacturers/wholesalers and the dealers).
Regardless of who's to blame this is price gouging pure and simple. Spare me the "he's just trying to make a living" bullshit. FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN GREED WE ARE GOING TO PAY NEARLY "PRE-BAN" PRICES FOR "NO-BAN" GUNS!!! I hope they starve. |
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Supply and demand man. Until yesterday, you have relatively few cops and LE angencies buying the LE rifles. Now everyone and their brother wants one. Demand literally went up overnight.
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Fixed it. Call them back and tell them what you think. |
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When they are still holding on to them in a few months and other are selling them as fast as they get them in, maybe the little light will come on.
<----post 556, finally |
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+1 Who died and made Colt King |
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I know the supply and demand thing but this is ridiculous. Not that I didn't expect it, though. I'm not blaming this particular shop but the bigger picture. Sure, not too many cops bought LEO M4's. But now that they are legal to us peons once again, viola---CHA-CHING!!!
I can only hope "they" have to eat their stock of LEO guns to survive! BTW, I converted my Colt MT-6400C today and the receiver says "M4 Carbine" on it. The LEO models don't! |
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The demand bit is the most asinine reasoning that I have ever heard. A week ago there were few of these rifles being sold, at $889, yet today they are able to sell all that they can get thier hands on, so they rasie the price to $1200? It would have made more sense to have a higher margin on a low turn over product, where you have to work harder selling it, and your captial is tied up in in longer, as it is now these rifels could be sold very quickly with little effort so they jack the price. It may make them a few extra duccats now, but in the end will cost them dearly, everytime soemone calls thier shop and asks about thier guns and they tell them $1200, that is one more person who will not be calling back the next time they are in the market for a rifle. I myself don't shop at the places that I know have absurdly high prices, and if I ran into a dealer who decides they will go for the quick buck, I am not going to be giving them a chance later.
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$100 stripped lower
add one parts kit (or buy a complete lower if you're not into building) mix in an upper of your chosen configuration =complete rifle exactly how you want it for much less |
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That's EXACTLY what I was thinking. More available sales SHOULD = lower prices! I'm sorry, that equation doesn't factor in GREED! Where's our economics majors when we need them??? |
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wait until the first ship from china, russia, etc. hits the American coast. all prices will drop.
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There should be no real overpowering of the supplyside outside of a very short period, these products have not been out of production for hte most part, they are currently being produced in an almost identical form, and only need different parts installed during assembly, parts that are already in inventory in quantity. There may be a short period where the distribution channels lose traction and go dry for a short time, but that will be a very quick and easy fix. The dealers who feel they are sitting on a goldmine oportunity and gouge thier customers during a very brief period of shortage, will pay a very stiff penalty for thier greed. The dealers who feel a loyalty to thier customers and offer them what product they have on hand at reasonable prices, and offer to back order the product at a decent price will be rewarded by the gratitude of thier customers, which in the long run will make them a much larger profit than the guys who scalp a customer and never see them again.
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yeah, that goddamn capitalism! I will never understand why people complain about prices. A shopowner can set the price he wants, and the item will either sell or it won't. It pains me to see a fellow gunowner that isn't a fan of capitalism. |
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If you're not an LEO, why would you want to own an LEO gun?
See Marpat |
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Not everyone genuinely loves capitalism. I do...it's entirely logical, fair, and a beautiful system. Some people don't get it. |
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Capitalism is a two way street, just because you decide to open a business does not entitle you to be succesfull, you have to be competitive as well. I have seen good and bad gun shops, I chose to make purchases from the good ones. No dealer is entitled to make a certain profit margin. A good business man makes sure that his customers are well served, charging upwards of fifty dollars for a magazine that is worth less than twenty is not good service, it is a rip off, and any sensible customer is going to recognize that fact, and adjust thier spending habits accordingly. I have seen areas where there was only one gun shop in town for years, the shop would charge 30-40% over MSRP on every product they sold, from teh cheapest to the most expensive, and if challenged they would be quick to tell you you are welcome to drive to Atlanta if you don't like thier price. Then a new gun shop opens up, and they only price at MSRP and are willing to haggle a little from there on more expensive items. Pretty soon the owner of the old gun shop can't figure out why nobody is coming in the store, and why his sales are down seventy percent.
It is indeed a dog eat dog world, but in such a competitive enviorment, you better be ready to compete, those who want to play god, will face the wrath of the consumer, and that is the ultimate test of capitalism. |
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There are many people willing to pay $1,200.00 for a Colt 16" semi auto M4 clone, that until yesterday could not be bought at any price.
Now raising prices on old stock postban guns would not make sense. The prices on those should be dropping significantly. In a few months, after production has cought up with increased demand, prices will be back in the $850.00 range. |
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How many Colt LEO marked M4's do you thing the average small town gun shop has on hand? |
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I agree and also remember witch dealers jacked the prices and never spend another dime in their shop. I personally don't go for the "Demand" BS, its pure greed. |
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I would love to have one of those Colt lowers. unfortunately colt did not start making that model until after our ban. so all my Colts are Sporter and Match target series rifles, and one CAR-A3 HBAR Elite. |
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I havent went shopping for anything yet. Im going to wait for prices to get to a more even level and know what the current "good price" for stuff is first.
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Do you 'girls' have to have handbags that say "Gucci" on them, too?
Man up and leave all that fashion name stuff in the women's department. |
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Is there anything preventing them from ordering more? There is a difference between a shortage, and a dealer holding back product to give the impression of a shortage. I have no doubt that there are quite a few LEO only guns in warehouses of the jobbers and distrubitors, these guns do not just materialize out of nowhere on the store shelves. I would expect an honest dealer to tell me that he had just sold his last one, but was willing to order me one for a fair price, rather than tel me he had one for me, but being that they wree in such demand that he raised the price and wouldn't order any more until the stock on hand was sold. Of course I don't live in a one horse town and can go to other places. |
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Oh No we're NOT. Well, me anyway. Seems like this might be a good time to find bargains on certain ..uh, post-ban, ..umh prior-post-ban, ... Guns made in the last 10 years. |
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How many dealers only have 1 or 2 on the shelf so they can get a few extra dollars for it.
Now after you pay more since they are asking abit higher since they are in short supply you get your new AR, leave the store they get another from stock in the back and put it up there and it becomes the only one they have again. |
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Offer a good product at a good price and your customers may tell one or two people about your business. The inverse is that if your potential customers feel cheated, then they will tell as many people as they can about your business practices.
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When I heard about the ban sunsetting I decided I was going to purchase a Colt M4. This is a rifle which in a similar form had been selling for around 2000 (pre-ban) dollars last time I looked. Now of the gun stores in my town, there is really only one that would have had these guns as regular stock before the sunset, a police supply store. There are a couple of other stores in town who usually have one or two of this type of rifle on an occasional basis. When I got up this morning, I made the rounds and hit all my regular haunts. Nobody had ANY LEO guns including this store. We are talking an hour or two after the stores open and ALL of the LEO guns that anybody had in stock were gone.
When I got home, I called around and ended up finding a dealer that I don't usually go to (small shop mostly dealing in class three) who said he had these guns in stock for 1200 bucks. I checked gun broker, I checked auction arms, I checked gunsamerica, I checked ar15.com, I checked glocktalk.com, I checked thefiringline.com, and all of these places were showing adds for at least 1200 bucks for this gun, or were completely out. The one exception was here on ar15.com where steyraug is selling them for $1100 bucks but has no idea of his delivery time. (before anyone complains, I appreciate his doing a group buy and think his price is reasonable...). There were such a limited number of these guns around at MOST dealers that they are going to be hard to come by for a while. The majority of dealers I talked to told me that their distributors didn't even have any of these and to check back in a couple of weeks. If you want one of these guns NOW, you are going to have to pay the price. Its simple economics. You can call it price gouging, you can call it greed, you can call it what you want. But the fact is, if bachman pawn or anyone else were to sell them for $895, the first guy to call the store would have bought them all and put them up for 1200 anyway. I work in electronics retail and this has happened with anything that's in demand. My store sells mini ipods from apple at the regular retail price. 8 months ago when the stupid thing came out they were rare as hell. If we got any in, I guarantee the first guy to find out would buy them all and I would see them up on ebay later that day selling for 50 to 100 bucks more than the retail price. Greed is a two way street. You are greedy for having to have it NOW and not waiting for a better price, and the dealer is greedy for wanting to get the most possible money for his products. Given the low markups and the general condition the firearms industry is in right now, I think it's probably a breath of fresh air for them that they can get a real markup on a product for once. |
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nope, as as soon as Colt and QPI/Bushmaster starts shiping them in quantity the price will come down. But those who want one, right now, are going to pay more. Some dealers were smart, and ordered lots of LEO rifles and mags in anticipation of the sunset. But not every gunshop/hardware store took that gamble. |
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Contrary to my prior post in this thread, I seriously want a Colt lower marked as above. So who's sellin' and how much? (I have a bastardized Sporter Lightweight lower marked 7.62x39 under a M-4 5.56 upper. Need to return the properly chambered upper to its mate, get a new lower and make 2 rifles out of the current 1.5 of this set.) |
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Local shop had a Bushy LEO/GOV M4 this morning. $850
Thats why he is a good guy! |
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Just build your own. I have a Eagle Arms($100 fun show purchase) lower with a RRA trigger ( gift) in it . A2 stock ($20 complete with spring and buffer and tube at a flea market). Lower parts kit from ADCO for $59.
I have a grand total of $179 in it. I just scrounged around for a year looking for deals, and it's been setting in the safe waiting for this day to come. I ordered the upper for it today from RB Precision. RRA A4 receiver with bolt, carrier, and CH. Chrome lined 16" M4 barrel, 4 rail float tube, YHM folding front site and gas block, ARMS #40 rear site and a 6 position stock. And Krista was nice enough to drop the shipping charges when I told her ARFCOM sent me. So it came in at a shade less than $850, and I now have a brand new spare A2 stock to sell so I'm figuring total cash outlay for a great rifle of about $800. Not everone is gouging. Just walk away from those that do. Look what happened to all the guys with their $2000 prebans. HAR HAR |
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so do the cops have to pay this higher price or do they get the original. i would think LE would be pissed to wait until the price corrects itself. the shop i was in had 6 LEO AR's a week ago and they were off the shelf 3pm today. the shop threw in a 50% markup on their glock LEO mags for good measure. i feel the hangover and didn't even get to party!!
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Who cares what they are charging. Get the parts and put them together yourself.
CMMG mil-spec M4gery 1/7 twist chrome-lined flattop upper--$500 Stag Arms (makes RRA) lower w/ internals but no stock--$170 with FFL transfer VLTOR modstock kit with H buffer--$159 LMT BUIS--$119 Badass NO BAN AR--$948 total Not much more than Colt's LEO M4 and I have the LMT BUIS and VLTOR improvements. Who the hell needs a Colt anyway? Their prices are RIDICULUS and their quality is no better than the others IMO. |
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+1 Any lower Accuracy Speaks trigger VLTOR Stock Battlegrip LMT Brl'd Upper ARMS 40L BUIS KAC RASII Better to just build it the way you want it. |
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agency direct sales dont have the 11% FET imposed. Glock has already said they will continue to offer discounted prices to LE Agencies. |
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