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11/20/2019 5:07:11 PM
Posted: 10/29/2013 4:38:05 PM EST
I am struggling with the core motivation that drives the root cause of the promotion of socialism. Power , wealth , greed or just what , maybe some good reading on this subject would be helpful . Any good books on this or info with the real truth on this matter would be greatly appreciated .


Thanks .
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 4:39:09 PM EST
Think of Kingdoms... The Kings confiscated the wealth, and metered it out.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 4:40:39 PM EST
Power and control

Give "Ameritopia" a try
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 4:40:54 PM EST
Getting free shit and not doing anything for it. What's not to like?
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 4:41:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2013 4:42:28 PM EST by AKsala]
You are going to have to define socialism. Many people here think any outlay of money from the government is against their wishes criminal theft socialism.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 4:41:25 PM EST
fear
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 4:42:59 PM EST
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Originally Posted By AKsala:
You are going to have to define socialism. Many people here think any outlay of money from the government is socialism.
View Quote


Therein lies a problem, as "socialism" is an ill-defined panacea that is many different things to different people.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 4:43:29 PM EST
komrade barry
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 4:43:37 PM EST
There is too much unfairness in the distribution of wealth.

I think that's about it.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 4:44:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By John1125:
I am struggling with the core motivation that drives the root cause of the promotion of socialism.
View Quote


It's butt hurt.

After talking to socialists the root cause is that they are butt hurt that someone is better off than they are and it's not right somehow.

Link Posted: 10/29/2013 4:45:21 PM EST
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Originally Posted By brahm:
fear
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I was going to say insecurity, but yeah. Fear of failure to be specific.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 4:46:55 PM EST
At the core it's about the feeling that some have that they think they know better. Deep down I don't really believe Barry knowingly craves power (subconsciously maybe). But he does feel he's smarter than you, and know what's better for your well being than you do. It's arrogance that drives it. The belief that there are people who are smarter, and should make all the decisions. Don't get me wrong. There are a lot of people out there who latch on in the hope of attaining power, but that's not what drive the true believers.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 4:49:50 PM EST
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Originally Posted By eightiesheaven:
Power and control

View Quote


Look at the lengths the Southern aristocracy went to in preserving and expanding the institution of slavery, a practice that was economically questionable, long-term unsustainable, and certainly morally reprehensible. But the simple fact of direct control over other human beings has been cited as a major contributor to the otherwise inexplicable allure that slavery held over the ruling political class in the southern states.

Socialism is not that much different. A benighted class is in total control of the masses. The draw of that kind of power is overwhelming.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 4:51:44 PM EST
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Originally Posted By AKsala:
You are going to have to define socialism. Many people here think any outlay of money from the government is against their wishes criminal theft socialism.
View Quote


I am defining socialism as bigger and bigger governmental interference with capitalism , such as increased taxes and increased entitlement programs , and just more government in general or even the implementation of a single payer health care system , what we are calling Obamacare . Particularly with regards to those who are implementing this , not the one receiving the dole.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 4:51:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2013 4:52:39 PM EST by burnka871]
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Originally Posted By JeuBacca:
At the core it's about the feeling that some have that they think they know better. Deep down I don't really believe Barry knowingly craves power (subconsciously maybe). But he does feel he's smarter than you, and know what's better for your well being than you do. It's arrogance that drives it. The belief that there are people who are smarter, and should make all the decisions. Don't get me wrong. There are a lot of people out there who latch on in the hope of attaining power, but that's not what drive the true believers.
View Quote

Link Posted: 10/29/2013 4:53:32 PM EST
It's man's nature to want things, but to invest as little effort as possible to get them. Socialism promises those things for the simple price of a vote.

Taking "rich" peoples stuff and making everyone equal sounds great to the guys who aren't rich. What do they have to lose? Like every good con-game it plays on the jealousy, greed, ignorance, and laziness. The victim of the con thinks he is a smart guy and doesn't realize he has been hoodwinked until it's far too late.

Link Posted: 10/29/2013 4:55:32 PM EST
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Originally Posted By M4-AK:
Think of Kingdoms... The Kings confiscated the wealth, and metered it out.
View Quote


+1

It's not any more complicated than that. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. We see this with our current politicians.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 4:56:04 PM EST
Free stuff and those that want it are able to push for it as they have plenty of free time to do so.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 4:56:56 PM EST
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Originally Posted By hourglassing:


Look at the lengths the Southern aristocracy went to in preserving and expanding the institution of slavery, a practice that was economically questionable, long-term unsustainable, and certainly morally reprehensible. But the simple fact of direct control over other human beings has been cited as a major contributor to the otherwise inexplicable allure that slavery held over the ruling political class in the southern states.

Socialism is not that much different. A benighted class is in total control of the masses. The draw of that kind of power is overwhelming.
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Originally Posted By hourglassing:
Originally Posted By eightiesheaven:
Power and control



Look at the lengths the Southern aristocracy went to in preserving and expanding the institution of slavery, a practice that was economically questionable, long-term unsustainable, and certainly morally reprehensible. But the simple fact of direct control over other human beings has been cited as a major contributor to the otherwise inexplicable allure that slavery held over the ruling political class in the southern states.

Socialism is not that much different. A benighted class is in total control of the masses. The draw of that kind of power is overwhelming.

I see your point and I do agree with the power issue , but all of your points on the issue of slavery don't begin to explain that practice , it goes way deeper than and much farther back in history .
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 4:57:07 PM EST
fairness and Jealousy compounded with GREED, drives a big chunk of it..Mr Capitlaist Pig makes me work for a paycheck, how DARE He make money of the sweat of my brow. HE doesn't
need that much money, I want MY Share,
it's not FAIR...that you are good looking, have a big penis and married a Cowboy cheerleader and inherited your Daddy's money
I want MY TURN with your wife and 90% of your money..


those that have little tend to blame those that have more of theft, piracy, unjust actions in achieving wealth. Unionization blamed Big Business
on making millions on the back of the worker, and while there was a time of "robber barons"(most of whom were in bed with Big Government)
it was short lived, few successful at it and nearly ALL were so philanthropic in the end of their lives we're still seeing things today due to their largess and generosity
from museums, libraries, education and religious icons in America.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 4:58:33 PM EST
Exploit and encourage the weaknesses of the people rather than their strengths. Celebrate the weak and the victims. Never, ever judge them. Pay them for their poor choices, and then profit from their needs and dependency.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 4:59:01 PM EST
sophomoric stupidity.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 4:59:53 PM EST
It's their craving for power and elitism, an imaginary belief that a certain percentage of the population, a few lying control-freaks, are somehow better and smarter than everyone else so they collectively should be allowed to tell everyone else what to do, how to live. This group of so-called elitists aren't actually smarter or better than the rest of the population, it just makes them feel good to pretend they are, like kings or rulers. The whole system is kind of like modern day slavery because the rulers keep stripping everyone of more "rights" as almost a reminder to people that they are below their government, not on the same level as the special elitists of society. But the socialist politicians try to entice enough of the population to go along with their political ideas by guaranteeing everyone gets more equal financially, redistribution of wealth. Everyone "gets taken care of" as long as they listen to the mighty rulers.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 5:00:55 PM EST
It's a way for those who cannot succeed in the free market to prosper at the expense of those they could not outperform.

They are able to navigate the government and political labrynths that those in the private sector don't or can't negotiate. If you are wired for capitalist endeavors, you are probably repulsed by what is required to rise in the bureaucracy or political world. Therefore, the best, brightest and most motivated producers avoid the public sector like the plague.

The failures are free to expand the central government via regulation and legislation, gaining a stranglehold on the private sector.

And, that also explains how we got where we are.

TC
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 5:01:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2013 5:03:08 PM EST by eightiesheaven]
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Originally Posted By John1125:
I see your point and I do agree with the power issue , but all of your points on the issue of slavery don't begin to explain that practice , it goes way deeper than and much farther back in history .
View Quote



That's why you should really check out "Ameritopia" There you will find what you are looking for. I promise.

And you are correct. It DOES go way back in history

Link Posted: 10/29/2013 5:05:11 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
Exploit and encourage the weaknesses of the people rather than their strengths. Celebrate the weak and the victims. Never, ever judge them. Pay them for their poor choices, and then profit from their needs and dependency.
View Quote

There you go.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 5:06:04 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Renegade13B:
Getting free shit and not doing anything for it. What's not to like?
View Quote


This is the root of it. Laziness.

Bums on the street? The government should take care of that.

Racism? The government should take care of that.

Sexism? The government should take care of that.

Some people flip burgers for 20 years and never get ahead? The government should take care of that.

Health care? The government should take care of that.

Some people get rich beyond the wildest dreams of avarice? The government should take care of that.

Get off your lazy, worthless ass and do something about it yourself if you don't like it, you socialist slugs!

Link Posted: 10/29/2013 5:08:00 PM EST
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Originally Posted By JeuBacca:
At the core it's about the feeling that some have that they think they know better. Deep down I don't really believe Barry knowingly craves power (subconsciously maybe). But he does feel he's smarter than you, and know what's better for your well being than you do. It's arrogance that drives it. The belief that there are people who are smarter, and should make all the decisions. Don't get me wrong. There are a lot of people out there who latch on in the hope of attaining power, but that's not what drive the true believers.
View Quote


Was gonna say this. JB, you nailed it.
scruff
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 5:08:11 PM EST
Hope and Change.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 5:08:50 PM EST
Socialism is childish thought towards government and society.

"I don't have enough patience to study, therefore it all should be so simple and the government should take care of everything. We'll just pass a law to regulate every aspect of human behavior, and utopia will result. Police will enforce all the rules, and people will be FORCED to obey."

This is why it is so attractive to college students with no experience or motivation, looking for the easy way out.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 5:11:12 PM EST
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Originally Posted By eightiesheaven:



That's why you should really check out "Ameritopia" There you will find what you are looking for. I promise.

And you are correct. It DOES go way back in history

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Originally Posted By eightiesheaven:
Originally Posted By John1125:
I see your point and I do agree with the power issue , but all of your points on the issue of slavery don't begin to explain that practice , it goes way deeper than and much farther back in history .



That's why you should really check out "Ameritopia" There you will find what you are looking for. I promise.

And you are correct. It DOES go way back in history



I just read the part of the intro of that book , it sounds very well researched and interesting .
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 5:13:52 PM EST
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Originally Posted By JeuBacca:
At the core it's about the feeling that some have that they think they know better. Deep down I don't really believe Barry knowingly craves power (subconsciously maybe). But he does feel he's smarter than you, and know what's better for your well being than you do. It's arrogance that drives it. The belief that there are people who are smarter, and should make all the decisions. Don't get me wrong. There are a lot of people out there who latch on in the hope of attaining power, but that's not what drive the true believers.
View Quote


But based on your premise, it makes it sound like they actually "care" about the people. Example after example proves they give zero fucks. They are the sovereign and we are the subjects.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 5:13:58 PM EST
Socialism is focused on "equality of results or outcomes" for individuals in society.

Link Posted: 10/29/2013 5:14:31 PM EST
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Originally Posted By John1125:


And I would add that a many of mans ills are deeply rooted in long history , it is not as simple as we want to make it. We all learn from our fathers .

I just read the part of the intro of that book , it sounds very well researched and interesting .
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Originally Posted By John1125:
Originally Posted By eightiesheaven:
Originally Posted By John1125:
I see your point and I do agree with the power issue , but all of your points on the issue of slavery don't begin to explain that practice , it goes way deeper than and much farther back in history .



That's why you should really check out "Ameritopia" There you will find what you are looking for. I promise.

And you are correct. It DOES go way back in history



And I would add that a many of mans ills are deeply rooted in long history , it is not as simple as we want to make it. We all learn from our fathers .

I just read the part of the intro of that book , it sounds very well researched and interesting .

Link Posted: 10/29/2013 5:16:47 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Suburbanhillbilly:
There is too much unfairness in the distribution of wealth.

I think that's about it.
View Quote


"I'm smart, I work hard, and look how much those other people have. It's not fair."

"You're right. You should have as much they do, and I can help you get it."

That's it in a nutshell.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 5:17:39 PM EST
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Originally Posted By John1125:


I just read the part of the intro of that book , it sounds very well researched and interesting .
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Originally Posted By John1125:
Originally Posted By eightiesheaven:
Originally Posted By John1125:
I see your point and I do agree with the power issue , but all of your points on the issue of slavery don't begin to explain that practice , it goes way deeper than and much farther back in history .



That's why you should really check out "Ameritopia" There you will find what you are looking for. I promise.

And you are correct. It DOES go way back in history



I just read the part of the intro of that book , it sounds very well researched and interesting .



He is a brilliant man. You should check out his radio show as well.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 5:19:02 PM EST
It's a very easy sell to unmotivated people.

It's hard to run against the guy promising "vote for me and I'll take care of you."

And remember, the people benefiting from socialism (or social engineering) don't give one shit about who has to pay for it.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 5:27:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2013 5:28:30 PM EST by hourglassing]
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Originally Posted By John1125:

I see your point and I do agree with the power issue , but all of your points on the issue of slavery don't begin to explain that practice , it goes way deeper than and much farther back in history .
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Originally Posted By John1125:
Originally Posted By hourglassing:
Originally Posted By eightiesheaven:
Power and control



Look at the lengths the Southern aristocracy went to in preserving and expanding the institution of slavery, a practice that was economically questionable, long-term unsustainable, and certainly morally reprehensible. But the simple fact of direct control over other human beings has been cited as a major contributor to the otherwise inexplicable allure that slavery held over the ruling political class in the southern states.

Socialism is not that much different. A benighted class is in total control of the masses. The draw of that kind of power is overwhelming.

I see your point and I do agree with the power issue , but all of your points on the issue of slavery don't begin to explain that practice , it goes way deeper than and much farther back in history .


I was not seeking to explain the origins of slavery, merely using it as a useful example for how the craving for power corrupts.

In other areas of history, slavery was sustainable as well as good economics, and clearly political acceptable to all parties (except the slaves I suppose). It was just out of place in an emerging industrial civilization, the American South, yet clung to even as it brought on the destruction of the political class that embraced it.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 5:33:34 PM EST
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Originally Posted By eightiesheaven:


But based on your premise, it makes it sound like they actually "care" about the people. Example after example proves they give zero fucks. They are the sovereign and we are the subjects.
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Originally Posted By eightiesheaven:
Originally Posted By JeuBacca:
At the core it's about the feeling that some have that they think they know better. Deep down I don't really believe Barry knowingly craves power (subconsciously maybe). But he does feel he's smarter than you, and know what's better for your well being than you do. It's arrogance that drives it. The belief that there are people who are smarter, and should make all the decisions. Don't get me wrong. There are a lot of people out there who latch on in the hope of attaining power, but that's not what drive the true believers.


But based on your premise, it makes it sound like they actually "care" about the people. Example after example proves they give zero fucks. They are the sovereign and we are the subjects.

Oh no, I'm not saying they care about individuals in the least. It's all about what you can provide to the collective. True believers don't see individuals, but as cogs in a machine. If a cog is defective it's replaced. Every government program is a means of giving the collective an avenue to guide how they feel you should live. It's clocked in a disguise of caring, but that's just a facade to distract the "cogs".
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 5:35:18 PM EST
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Originally Posted By hourglassing:


I was not seeking to explain the origins of slavery, merely using it as a useful example for how the craving for power corrupts.

In other areas of history, slavery was sustainable as well as good economics, and clearly political acceptable to all parties (except the slaves I suppose). It was just out of place in an emerging industrial civilization, the American South, yet clung to even as it brought on the destruction of the political class that embraced it.
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Originally Posted By hourglassing:
Originally Posted By John1125:
Originally Posted By hourglassing:
Originally Posted By eightiesheaven:
Power and control



Look at the lengths the Southern aristocracy went to in preserving and expanding the institution of slavery, a practice that was economically questionable, long-term unsustainable, and certainly morally reprehensible. But the simple fact of direct control over other human beings has been cited as a major contributor to the otherwise inexplicable allure that slavery held over the ruling political class in the southern states.

Socialism is not that much different. A benighted class is in total control of the masses. The draw of that kind of power is overwhelming.

I see your point and I do agree with the power issue , but all of your points on the issue of slavery don't begin to explain that practice , it goes way deeper than and much farther back in history .


I was not seeking to explain the origins of slavery, merely using it as a useful example for how the craving for power corrupts.

In other areas of history, slavery was sustainable as well as good economics, and clearly political acceptable to all parties (except the slaves I suppose). It was just out of place in an emerging industrial civilization, the American South, yet clung to even as it brought on the destruction of the political class that embraced it.


As will socialism IMHO .
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 5:39:41 PM EST
Socialism = one group of people being made responsible for another group of people (all the while pretending that both groups are inherently equal).

Under socialism people have to be divided into groups (class, race, etc). Otherwise government enforced discrimination and redistribution cannot occur.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 5:42:19 PM EST
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Originally Posted By shooter69:
Socialism = one group of people being made responsible for another group of people (all the while pretending that both groups are inherently equal).

Under socialism people have to be divided into groups (class, race, etc). Otherwise government enforced discrimination and redistribution cannot occur.
View Quote


These socialists sound a lot like Congress
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 5:55:29 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
Exploit and encourage the weaknesses of the people rather than their strengths. Celebrate the weak and the victims. Never, ever judge them. Pay them for their poor choices, and then profit from their needs and dependency.
View Quote

That is worthy of being a sig line. Do you mind if I borrow it?
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 6:00:04 PM EST
Societal inequality. If kept at a certain equilibrium then the push for socialism is kept at bay. Once the power and wealth start to concentrate in fewer and fewer hands then more and more people start to demand the government give them a piece of the pie. For a capitalist society to prevent this requires long term financial planning and forethought about the consequences of societal trends. Both of which have been lacking in our leadership, of government and industry, for a very long time. So I suppose the short answer is greed.
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 6:00:57 PM EST
This looks like a good time to share a few quotes that remind me of America's decent into a more socialist system where we barter our liberty for some feeling of false security.



Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt, 1783

"The secret of freedom lies in educating people, whereas the secret of tyranny is in keeping them ignorant."
Maximilien Robespierre

Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom. - Alexis de Tocqueville - "Democracy in America" (1835)

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of Socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."-Winston Churchill
Link Posted: 10/29/2013 6:10:15 PM EST
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