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Posted: 1/18/2015 11:01:13 PM EST
http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/tech/2015/01/14/uss-ranger-supercarrier-top-gun-navsea-scrapyard/21693037/

The decommissioned supercarrier Ranger is headed to the scrapyard unless a Southern California organization can convince the Navy to spare it in the next few weeks.

Ranger, which "Top Gun" fans will remember for its on-screen cameo, was sold to International Shipbreaking late last year after a previous effort to turn the ship into a museum failed, according to a Dec. 22 release from Naval Sea Systems Command.

In early January, California-based Top Gun Super Carrier of Long Beach Inc., launched an online petition and social media campaign to save the Ranger.

https://www.change.org/p/u-s-navy-please-save-the-uss-ranger-from-the-scrap-heap
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:12:26 PM EST
So, let's scrap all of the original super-carriers. Sounds like the same guys who made the decision to scrap the Big E (CV-6). I've heard they want to keep the JFK (CV-67) and turn her into a museum. Gag.....
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:15:43 PM EST
How many museums do you need? Honest question.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:16:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/18/2015 11:18:09 PM EST by Redarts]
I love visiting warships and seeing their museums, but at a certain point you just have to let some of them go. It's expenses and work to maintain one of those as a museum, and I doubt many of them make a profit.

Plus some of them end up as good museums (the battleship north carolina is fantastic) and some of them end up being very mediocre (the one at the Nautilus museum in Norfolk is rather disappointing, you can't go into nearly as much of the ship as some of the others I've been on)
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:17:03 PM EST
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Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
How many museums do you need? Honest question.
View Quote


Carrier museums? One in every port.

Next question please.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:18:27 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Redarts:
I love visiting warships and seeing their museums, but at a certain point you just have to let some of them go. It's expenses and work to maintain one of those as a museum, and I doubt many of them make a profit.
View Quote



Yeah, because paying millions for the 0bama's vacations is much more important than teaching our kids about the heritage of our fighting fleets without having to drive across the country.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:21:43 PM EST
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Originally Posted By _DR:


Carrier museums? One in every port.

Next question please.
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Originally Posted By _DR:
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
How many museums do you need? Honest question.


Carrier museums? One in every port.

Next question please.


That's a lot of money, just in upkeep, and you're tying up a large berth that could otherwise be productive.

I'm all for maintaining important historical pieces, but there has to be a limit.


And how come nobody ever wants to make a museum out of a destroyer?
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:23:17 PM EST
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Originally Posted By _DR:



Yeah, because paying millions for the 0bama's vacations is much more important than teaching our kids about the heritage of our fighting fleets without having to drive across the country.
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Originally Posted By _DR:
Originally Posted By Redarts:
I love visiting warships and seeing their museums, but at a certain point you just have to let some of them go. It's expenses and work to maintain one of those as a museum, and I doubt many of them make a profit.



Yeah, because paying millions for the 0bama's vacations is much more important than teaching our kids about the heritage of our fighting fleets without having to drive across the country.


This is an incredible double standard. There are tons of naval museums. The unnecessary expenses in one corner of government don't justify those in the others, just because you like them.

If we're the people generally of a mind to cut back government, we need to recognize that sometimes we have to cut stuff we like too.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:24:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/18/2015 11:26:21 PM EST by JeepinCO]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:


That's a lot of money, just in upkeep, and you're tying up a large berth that could otherwise be productive.

I'm all for maintaining important historical pieces, but there has to be a limit.


And how come nobody ever wants to make a museum out of a destroyer?
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Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
Originally Posted By _DR:
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
How many museums do you need? Honest question.


Carrier museums? One in every port.

Next question please.


That's a lot of money, just in upkeep, and you're tying up a large berth that could otherwise be productive.

I'm all for maintaining important historical pieces, but there has to be a limit.


And how come nobody ever wants to make a museum out of a destroyer?


USS The Sullivans, DD-537. Buffalo, NY.

I also think we have enough carrier museums. While I like all the ships and wish they could all be saved from the scrapyard, it isn't feasible.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:37:51 PM EST
Well, there are 4 modified Essex's (Yorktown, Lexington, Intrepid and Hornet) and Midway but that's it. None are in their original configuration. Ranger wouldn't be in her original configuration either but she would be closer than the others. Her flight deck and basic silhouette didn't change much over the decades. The others were straight deck modified to angle deck.

We have eight battleships preserved and, what, two cruisers (1 heavy, 1 light CLG) preserved as museum ships? Don't know how many destroyers but I can think of three off the top of my head and I don't know how many submarines. We should keep one of the tear drop shaped nuke boats but doesn't look like the Navy's going to do that either.

It would be nice to be able to keep a representative from the major classes of ships/boats and major generational advances. Would it be expensive? Yes, but historical preservation, I think, is worth it. In the big picture, it's a drop in the bucket compared to the budget the Navy, or the FSA for that matter, use each year. I would absolutely love to be able to explore a relatively modern super-carrier. The size is amazing on an Essex let alone a Forrestal.

It was also a shame when they scrapped the Des Moines and the Cabot. I'd also like to see one of the old turbo-electric battleships like the West Virgina or Tennessee. Maybe Pennsylvania, Maryland or California or one of the other Pearl Harbor survivors.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:40:44 PM EST
The trouble with museums is that they cost money to operate and virtually no museum generate revenue via admission fees or membership to pay for itself. Many museums require some sort of underwriting, foundation support, wealthy donors or worse, government subsidies via taxes.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:41:07 PM EST
My brother served on the Ranger. I have a USS Ranger ballcap and some unit patches he mailed to me back then.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:41:45 PM EST
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Originally Posted By redleg13a:
So, let's scrap all of the original super-carriers. Sounds like the same guys who made the decision to scrap the Big E (CV-6). I've heard they want to keep the JFK (CV-67) and turn her into a museum. Gag.....
View Quote


Scrapping ENTERPRISE was a huge huge mistake.

She would have been an incredibly historic museum.

The Forrestals, while technically much more impressive, don't have nearly the same historic standing.

And they're much more expensive to maintain as a museum than any Yorktown class would have been.

I doubt we'll see any postwar carrier surviving as a museum just because of cost vs. history. They cost too much to maintain and lack the history to make them visitor magnets.

It is a shame in some ways but ships don't last forever and only a few are going to be preserved.

Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:45:29 PM EST
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Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
How many museums do you need? Honest question.
View Quote


This, I rather it be turned into a artificial reef to fish over.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:48:29 PM EST
The ship that should have been saved was the CV-6, Enterprise of WW II fame.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:51:42 PM EST
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Originally Posted By TrojanMan: And how come nobody ever wants to make a museum out of a destroyer?
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There's a really nice destroyer museum just a ferry ride from Seattle:

USS Turner Joy
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:58:22 PM EST
Signed it.
If others wouldn't mind signing it I would be grateful, my father served on that ship and it would mean a lot to him to be able to see it saved.
Thank you OP for posting this.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 12:03:43 AM EST
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Originally Posted By 4v50:
The trouble with museums is that they cost money to operate and virtually no museum generate revenue via admission fees or membership to pay for itself. Many museums require some sort of underwriting, foundation support, wealthy donors or worse, government subsidies via taxes.
View Quote



You're not thinking about this the right way. This becomes a shooting range (big fucking deck) with amenities, (it's a carrier. It has a few rooms) and a museum. You could have 100 yard targets from midship to bow, 25 yard targets from midship to port side and all kinds of sporting clays off the back.

Tell me you wouldn't pay $35 a month to shoot there?
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 12:03:48 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Redarts:


This is an incredible double standard. There are tons of naval museums. The unnecessary expenses in one corner of government don't justify those in the others, just because you like them.

If we're the people generally of a mind to cut back government, we need to recognize that sometimes we have to cut stuff we like too.
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Originally Posted By Redarts:
Originally Posted By _DR:
Originally Posted By Redarts:
I love visiting warships and seeing their museums, but at a certain point you just have to let some of them go. It's expenses and work to maintain one of those as a museum, and I doubt many of them make a profit.



Yeah, because paying millions for the 0bama's vacations is much more important than teaching our kids about the heritage of our fighting fleets without having to drive across the country.


This is an incredible double standard. There are tons of naval museums. The unnecessary expenses in one corner of government don't justify those in the others, just because you like them.

If we're the people generally of a mind to cut back government, we need to recognize that sometimes we have to cut stuff we like too.

None of those matter in terms of budget. We could kill all museums, NASA, presidential travel, the national parks, and it wouldn't do a damned bit of difference. Social security, medicare, and medicade are the ones that have a yearly increasing cost.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 12:09:35 AM EST
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Originally Posted By TrojanMan:


That's a lot of money, just in upkeep, and you're tying up a large berth that could otherwise be productive.

I'm all for maintaining important historical pieces, but there has to be a limit.


And how come nobody ever wants to make a museum out of a destroyer?
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Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
Originally Posted By _DR:
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
How many museums do you need? Honest question.


Carrier museums? One in every port.

Next question please.


That's a lot of money, just in upkeep, and you're tying up a large berth that could otherwise be productive.

I'm all for maintaining important historical pieces, but there has to be a limit.


And how come nobody ever wants to make a museum out of a destroyer?


The USS Kidd is a Fletcher class destroyer (now a museum) in Baton Rouge, La.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 12:18:41 AM EST
Before anything else I'd like to save the Olympia. She's the only example of her era of armored cruiser left in the world and she is rusting to pieces.



Link Posted: 1/19/2015 12:21:16 AM EST
Maybe the Chinese could make an offer.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 12:30:17 AM EST
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Originally Posted By _DR:


Carrier museums? One in every port.

Next question please.
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Originally Posted By _DR:
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
How many museums do you need? Honest question.


Carrier museums? One in every port.

Next question please.



It isn't so much a museum, as it is an exhibit piece that is larger than most buildings.

Personally I think we should keep a few examples from each era or generation if possible.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 12:32:37 AM EST
Needs more razor blades.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 12:38:19 AM EST
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Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
And how come nobody ever wants to make a museum out of a destroyer?
View Quote


My Eagle Scout project was restoring the captains state room on a destroyer
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 1:04:09 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:


That's a lot of money, just in upkeep, and you're tying up a large berth that could otherwise be productive.

I'm all for maintaining important historical pieces, but there has to be a limit.


And how come nobody ever wants to make a museum out of a destroyer?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
Originally Posted By _DR:
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
How many museums do you need? Honest question.


Carrier museums? One in every port.

Next question please.


That's a lot of money, just in upkeep, and you're tying up a large berth that could otherwise be productive.

I'm all for maintaining important historical pieces, but there has to be a limit.


And how come nobody ever wants to make a museum out of a destroyer?

They've got Cruiser Little Rock (CL-4) and Destroyer The Sullivans (Fletcher class) as a museum in Buffalo. Washington Navy Yard has a DD (Barry, Forest Sherman class) as a museum.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 1:06:54 AM EST
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Originally Posted By _DR:


Carrier museums? One in every port.

Next question please.
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Originally Posted By _DR:
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
How many museums do you need? Honest question.


Carrier museums? One in every port.

Next question please.



I wouldn't mind it if they brought her up to the great lakes and made her travel around up here, New city every 6 months

Increase access to us Midwestern people who don't get to see much maritime.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 2:15:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2015 2:16:47 AM EST by marksman121]
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Originally Posted By _DR:



Yeah, because paying millions for the 0bama's vacations is much more important than teaching our kids about the heritage of our fighting fleets without having to drive across the country.
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Originally Posted By _DR:
Originally Posted By Redarts:
I love visiting warships and seeing their museums, but at a certain point you just have to let some of them go. It's expenses and work to maintain one of those as a museum, and I doubt many of them make a profit.



Yeah, because paying millions for the 0bama's vacations is much more important than teaching our kids about the heritage of our fighting fleets without having to drive across the country.


Or don't waste on either.

Get out your checkbook and donate if you want one near you.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 2:29:50 AM EST
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Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
How many museums do you need? Honest question.
View Quote


You don't need any. Some people want to turn them into museums, others want them for their scrap. Quite frankly, who cares. If they're sold to the highest bidder, I really don't care what they do with surplus ships as long as tax dollars aren't used to maintain them.


Link Posted: 1/19/2015 2:42:20 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Qweevox:


You don't need any. Some people want to turn them into museums, others want them for their scrap. Quite frankly, who cares. If they're sold to the highest bidder, I really don't care what they do with surplus ships as long as tax dollars aren't used to maintain them.


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Originally Posted By Qweevox:
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
How many museums do you need? Honest question.


You don't need any. Some people want to turn them into museums, others want them for their scrap. Quite frankly, who cares. If they're sold to the highest bidder, I really don't care what they do with surplus ships as long as tax dollars aren't used to maintain them.




Are they auctioning them off? If I'm not mistaken, many are being sold to scrappers for $0.01 (CV-60, USS Saratoga) and the scrapper is selling the steel as they pull it apart.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 3:04:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2015 3:11:21 AM EST by Qweevox]
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Originally Posted By BIgDAM:


Are they auctioning them off? If I'm not mistaken, many are being sold to scrappers for $0.01 (CV-60, USS Saratoga) and the scrapper is selling the steel as they pull it apart.
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Originally Posted By BIgDAM:
Originally Posted By Qweevox:
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
How many museums do you need? Honest question.


You don't need any. Some people want to turn them into museums, others want them for their scrap. Quite frankly, who cares. If they're sold to the highest bidder, I really don't care what they do with surplus ships as long as tax dollars aren't used to maintain them.




Are they auctioning them off? If I'm not mistaken, many are being sold to scrappers for $0.01 (CV-60, USS Saratoga) and the scrapper is selling the steel as they pull it apart.


I hope you're wrong. But to be honest I don't know for sure. I do know they've put naval ships up for bid in the past. Hell, I remember when they sold that weird looking multi-billion dollar stealth ship at auction. I can't remember what it sold for, but it wasn't a penny. I clearly remember that the buyer was required to scrap it, within a certain amount of time. They couldn't just keep it.

Here it is, I was wrong. It was a $50 million stealth ship they sold for scrap at $2.5 million. http://www.themarysue.com/sea-shadow-sold-for-scrap/

I have to believe a carrier is worth a hell of a lot more in scrap then $2.5 million. But it's an expensive proposition to scrap a military vessel.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 3:12:33 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 3:17:30 AM EST
Run a DD as a living history cruise vessel. People pay for 5 day cruises, run a couple general quarters drills, blast a propane/O2 fueled Oerlikon or Bofors, 5in gun etc.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 3:46:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2015 3:46:57 AM EST by RogueSpear2023]
If they weren't so full of toxic materials they would make great artificial reefs, seems like a better idea than making them into Chinese Hummers.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 4:07:38 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Qweevox:


I hope you're wrong. But to be honest I don't know for sure. I do know they've put naval ships up for bid in the past. Hell, I remember when they sold that weird looking multi-billion dollar stealth ship at auction. I can't remember what it sold for, but it wasn't a penny. I clearly remember that the buyer was required to scrap it, within a certain amount of time. They couldn't just keep it.

Here it is, I was wrong. It was a $50 million stealth ship they sold for scrap at $2.5 million. http://www.themarysue.com/sea-shadow-sold-for-scrap/

I have to believe a carrier is worth a hell of a lot more in scrap then $2.5 million. But it's an expensive proposition to scrap a military vessel.
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Originally Posted By Qweevox:
Originally Posted By BIgDAM:
Originally Posted By Qweevox:
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
How many museums do you need? Honest question.


You don't need any. Some people want to turn them into museums, others want them for their scrap. Quite frankly, who cares. If they're sold to the highest bidder, I really don't care what they do with surplus ships as long as tax dollars aren't used to maintain them.




Are they auctioning them off? If I'm not mistaken, many are being sold to scrappers for $0.01 (CV-60, USS Saratoga) and the scrapper is selling the steel as they pull it apart.


I hope you're wrong. But to be honest I don't know for sure. I do know they've put naval ships up for bid in the past. Hell, I remember when they sold that weird looking multi-billion dollar stealth ship at auction. I can't remember what it sold for, but it wasn't a penny. I clearly remember that the buyer was required to scrap it, within a certain amount of time. They couldn't just keep it.

Here it is, I was wrong. It was a $50 million stealth ship they sold for scrap at $2.5 million. http://www.themarysue.com/sea-shadow-sold-for-scrap/

I have to believe a carrier is worth a hell of a lot more in scrap then $2.5 million. But it's an expensive proposition to scrap a military vessel.


Nope, not worth a damn thing apparently. They sold the Sara for a penny and she's being scrapped in Brownsville, TX.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 5:18:21 AM EST
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Originally Posted By TrojanMan:


That's a lot of money, just in upkeep, and you're tying up a large berth that could otherwise be productive.

I'm all for maintaining important historical pieces, but there has to be a limit.


And how come nobody ever wants to make a museum out of a destroyer?
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Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
Originally Posted By _DR:
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
How many museums do you need? Honest question.


Carrier museums? One in every port.

Next question please.


That's a lot of money, just in upkeep, and you're tying up a large berth that could otherwise be productive.

I'm all for maintaining important historical pieces, but there has to be a limit.


And how come nobody ever wants to make a museum out of a destroyer?

There are destroyers at Patriot's Point in SC and the US Navy Museum in DC, and I think there's one at Fall River, MA.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 7:42:03 AM EST
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Originally Posted By 1srelluc:


This, I rather it be turned into a artificial reef to fish over.
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Originally Posted By 1srelluc:
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
How many museums do you need? Honest question.


This, I rather it be turned into a artificial reef to fish over.


Almost a ditto, I'd rather dive the artificial reef.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 7:54:04 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:11:58 AM EST
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Originally Posted By happycynic:
Before anything else I'd like to save the Olympia. She's the only example of her era of armored cruiser left in the world and she is rusting to pieces.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Olympia_%28C-6%29




View Quote



Sorta proves the point. We can't maintain all the museums we have. This one will cost a fortune to not scrap, just like fixing the Texas, where they are going to build a dry dock for her... $30 million. She just leaks too much.

Ideally they need to be pulled from the water.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:27:09 AM EST
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Originally Posted By 1srelluc:


This, I rather it be turned into a artificial reef to fish over.
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Originally Posted By 1srelluc:
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
How many museums do you need? Honest question.


This, I rather it be turned into a artificial reef to fish over.


I dove the Oriskany and it was impressive. But with steel prices, recycling may be a better solution.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:39:36 AM EST
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Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
How many museums do you need? Honest question.
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Plus they are matainance whores. A ship that big will need constant attention and periodic dry dockings.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:51:03 AM EST
its a tool. when it no longer useful or unneeded you scrap it.

Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:52:46 AM EST
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Originally Posted By 4v50:
The ship that should have been saved was the CV-6, Enterprise of WW II fame.
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meh we have the yorktown for that.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:55:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2015 8:57:09 AM EST by stanag4179]
Every Ship museum I am familiar with is barely surviving. The Texas foundation needs donations to dry dock it permanently! The Olympia might be worth saving if it can be restored.
I would argue the Iowa and Wisconsin should have been scrapped too. Can you really run four viable battleship museums in addition to the three we already had?
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 8:57:37 AM EST
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Originally Posted By phoen1x:

meh we have the yorktown for that.
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Originally Posted By phoen1x:
Originally Posted By 4v50:
The ship that should have been saved was the CV-6, Enterprise of WW II fame.

meh we have the yorktown for that.

The Yorktown was sunk at Midway
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 9:04:51 AM EST
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Originally Posted By stanag4179:

The Yorktown was sunk at Midway
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Originally Posted By stanag4179:
Originally Posted By phoen1x:
Originally Posted By 4v50:
The ship that should have been saved was the CV-6, Enterprise of WW II fame.

meh we have the yorktown for that.

The Yorktown was sunk at Midway


USS Yorktown (CV-10) commissioned in '43 to replace CV-5 (sunk at Battle of Midway) and is now at Patriots Point in Charleston, SC. My dad took me when I was a kid.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 9:08:49 AM EST
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Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
How many museums do you need? Honest question.
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This. Scrapping old ships is nothing new; you can't save them all. I'd rather see one ship of a class preserved well instead of several underfunded.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 9:11:16 AM EST
The three Essex class ships we did save are far better looking than the Forrestals, IMO
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 9:17:58 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 9:19:36 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 9:23:19 AM EST
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