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Posted: 8/23/2017 12:58:44 PM EDT
[#1]
It's no wonder the Chinese have little love for the Japanese.
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Posted: 8/23/2017 12:59:25 PM EDT
[#2]
This has always puzzled me.
Everyone talks about the Nazis as the epitome of evil-but the Japs and soviets were by body count orders of magnitude worse. So why don't they get the same air time? |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:00:56 PM EDT
[#3]
Sounds about right.
They were animals. I never have and never will feel guilty about the Atomic Bombs we used on them. The bought both and then some, the way I see it. |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:01:45 PM EDT
[#4]
I've frankly never understood the "honor" thing in the Asian culture. I've worked in health care, retail, good service, law enforcement, and other industries, and I've met more dishonest, conniving, weasely folks from so called "honorable" cultures than any other.
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:02:28 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This has always puzzled me. Everyone talks about the Nazis as the epitome of evil-but the Japs and soviets were by body count orders of magnitude worse. So why don't they get the same air time? and communism is swell durrr.... |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:02:38 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This has always puzzled me. Everyone talks about the Nazis as the epitome of evil-but the Japs and soviets were by body count orders of magnitude worse. So why don't they get the same air time? And made to own their actions. Emperor and associates needed public humiliation. Too harsh ? Well, gut yourself as your "honor" demands The Russians commies had so many lib Sympathizers |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:05:53 PM EDT
[#7]
If you view the enemy as subhuman, there is no conflict with honor when you commit atrocities on them.
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:07:28 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's no wonder the Chinese have little love for the Japanese. http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/the-rape-of-nanking |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:08:36 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This has always puzzled me. Everyone talks about the Nazis as the epitome of evil-but the Japs and soviets were by body count orders of magnitude worse. So why don't they get the same air time? |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:10:03 PM EDT
[#10]
Fuck them. They did get a free pass. Sick fucks. We should have dropped 100 more on them.
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:10:22 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This has always puzzled me. Everyone talks about the Nazis as the epitome of evil-but the Japs and soviets were by body count orders of magnitude worse. So why don't they get the same air time? |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:11:13 PM EDT
[#12]
What they did here is also the stuff of nightmares. Door to door and bed to bed murder among other things.
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:11:15 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This has always puzzled me. Everyone talks about the Nazis as the epitome of evil-but the Japs and soviets were by body count orders of magnitude worse. So why don't they get the same air time? |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:11:55 PM EDT
[#14]
We're appalled by their actions, but historically raping and pillaging and wholesale rampant murder was just part of being conquered.
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:12:26 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't know about Japanese. Maybe MacArthur shielded them. They needed put in their place And made to own their actions. Emperor and associates needed public humiliation. Too harsh ? Well, gut yourself as your "honor" demands The Russians commies had so many lib Sympathizers Postwar, I think the sentiment was that after the nukes they were so thoroughly beaten there wasn't much point. A lot of them did face war crimes trials and execution. Most of the top brass had already suicided anyway. Another factor was the cold war. The japs and the germans were and are natural allies vs the russians and chinese. Look at how that relationship is paying off right now with the norks. One thing we did right after ww2 was not to repeat the mistakes of ww1 and institute harsh penalties. All that did was piss off the germans and make commies and nazis popular. Making them friends, even at gunpoint, was the right call. |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:12:27 PM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:12:34 PM EDT
[#17]
As bad as the Germans in WW2, the Russians made them look civilized, in turn the Japanese made the Russian look civilized .
from what I read Allied POW camps lost about 3-5% deaths, the German POW camps lost 10-15%, No on knows about the Russian POW camps, but the Japanese had 35-38% of their prisoners die The Russians kept their prisoners and worked them to death for the most part. Some were re-parioatied in the 50's . One German sniper got to go home in 1992!!!! |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:15:13 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
On December 13, about 30 soldiers came to a Chinese house at #5 Hsing Lu Koo in the southeastern part of Nanking, and demanded entrance. The door was open by the landlord, a Mohammedan named Ha. They killed him immediately with a revolver and also Mrs. Ha, who knelt before them after Ha's death, begging them not to kill anyone else. Mrs. Ha asked them why they killed her husband and they shot her. Mrs. Hsia was dragged out from under a table in the guest hall where she had tried to hide with her 1 year old baby. After being stripped and raped by one or more men, she was bayoneted in the chest, and then had a bottle thrust into her vagina. The baby was killed with a bayonet. Some soldiers then went to the next room, where Mrs. Hsia's parents, aged 76 and 74, and her two daughters aged 16 and 14 [were]. They were about to rape the girls when the grandmother tried to protect them. The soldiers killed her with a revolver. The grandfather grasped the body of his wife and was killed. The two girls were then stripped, the elder being raped by 2–3 men, and the younger by 3. The older girl was stabbed afterwards and a cane was rammed in her vagina. The younger girl was bayoneted also but was spared the horrible treatment that had been meted out to her sister and mother. The soldiers then bayoneted another sister of between 7–8, who was also in the room. The last murders in the house were of Ha's two children, aged 4 and 2 respectively. The older was bayoneted and the younger split down through the head with a sword.[67] Wikipedia. Welcome to war |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:16:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Watching cartoons with my kid at the inlaws house in Wuhan earlier this year, there was one about Japanese soldiers butt-stroking a kid and stealing the livestock he was tending. The kid informs the local CCP cadre who sends troops to destroy the IJA blockhouse. It's as if the Anti-Japanese War just concluded. All that said, I absolutely understand the Chinese hatred for Japan. The magnitude of Japanese atrocities in China are overwhelming and quite frankly medieval in nature.
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:16:52 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This has always puzzled me. Everyone talks about the Nazis as the epitome of evil-but the Japs and soviets were by body count orders of magnitude worse. So why don't they get the same air time? |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:17:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Not so much honor we were dealing with in WWII soldiers as it was "Bushido". I don't think bayonetting babies was necessarily verboten.
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:18:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't know about Japanese. Maybe MacArthur shielded them. They needed put in their place And made to own their actions. Emperor and associates needed public humiliation. Too harsh ? Well, gut yourself as your "honor" demands The Russians commies had so many lib Sympathizers I think overall, the fear was that if we did the same to the Japanese during the occupation, they'd all go "crazy" and start fighting to the last man woman and child with sharpened bamboo sticks, like the fear the mainland invasion would be so brutal before Hiroshima and Nagasaki forced an end to the war. So to this day the general perception among the Japanese public is that it was a "regular war" created by competing interests for territory, resources, and influence with America and the European colonial powers around the Pacific, and really have no idea Japan was an extra special tyrannical conquering nation. Although treating the Japanese with kid gloves was itself kind of "racist" in a way. Because Asians were viewed as being "different enough" than Europeans/Whites that MacArthur and others actually did believe the Japanese going crazy if they were educated about their war crimes was true. They didn't believe, or were unwilling to take a chance on "we're all human beings under the skin" and try to educate/punish the Japanese over their war crimes. They and many other Asian nations also don't exactly "get" on a gut level what the Nazis and Hitler represent to the Western world either... https://www.yomyomf.com/what-is-it-with-asians-and-nazis/ You can also google "Hitler Ice Cream India" for some WTF'ery and package design. 
Also, I think there was a pragmatic aspect to it. We already saw what the Soviet Union was doing in Eastern Europe, and didn't want their influence or dominance spreading to Japan, Asia, or the Pacific theater. And the Civil War that was going on in China between the Nationalists and the Communists, so anything that put Japan at risk of being unstable, having an insurgency or whatnot was actively discouraged. The Soviets getting a sort of "pass" over Stalin's purges, the Holodomor in the Ukraine and other mass killings, was largely borne of the fact they were our ally of convenience in WWII against the Nazis and at least on paper against Japan. And after that, taking them on after WWII had just ended, and they had Eastern Europe occupied, and then the nuclear stand-off of the Cold War, the stakes and the threat were just "too big" to really dig into the evil like we did with the Nazis. |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:19:18 PM EDT
[#23]
And you know what?
Everyday Japanese people have no idea this ever happened, because they've all but erased it from their educational texts and culture. |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:19:19 PM EDT
[#24]
the japanese did not sign the geneva convention.
and many american soldiers captured by them learned the reality of that fact. for a few facts including eating your captives (cannibalism) japanese war crimes ISIS tops the japanese in video atrocities for advertising but are pikers in savagery and evil when compared. the 'honor' of the japanese was to themselves, their culture, the emperor and bushido. the japanese despised the brits and the americans because they surrender instead of killing themselves. no honor at all unless you were japanese also. 
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:20:19 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not so much honor we were dealing with in WWII soldiers as it was "Bushido". I don't think bayonetting babies was necessarily verboten. |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:23:21 PM EDT
[#26]
The Japanese weren't very nice people.
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:23:40 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
On December 13, about 30 soldiers came to a Chinese house at #5 Hsing Lu Koo in the southeastern part of Nanking, and demanded entrance. The door was open by the landlord, a Mohammedan named Ha. They killed him immediately with a revolver and also Mrs. Ha, who knelt before them after Ha's death, begging them not to kill anyone else. Mrs. Ha asked them why they killed her husband and they shot her. Mrs. Hsia was dragged out from under a table in the guest hall where she had tried to hide with her 1 year old baby. After being stripped and raped by one or more men, she was bayoneted in the chest, and then had a bottle thrust into her vagina. The baby was killed with a bayonet. Some soldiers then went to the next room, where Mrs. Hsia's parents, aged 76 and 74, and her two daughters aged 16 and 14 [were]. They were about to rape the girls when the grandmother tried to protect them. The soldiers killed her with a revolver. The grandfather grasped the body of his wife and was killed. The two girls were then stripped, the elder being raped by 2–3 men, and the younger by 3. The older girl was stabbed afterwards and a cane was rammed in her vagina. The younger girl was bayoneted also but was spared the horrible treatment that had been meted out to her sister and mother. The soldiers then bayoneted another sister of between 7–8, who was also in the room. The last murders in the house were of Ha's two children, aged 4 and 2 respectively. The older was bayoneted and the younger split down through the head with a sword.[67] Wikipedia. Mindset of Japanese: History teaches us the enemy are incapable of learning without brutal force, so lessons need to be as hard as possible. And if you make the enemy fear you, they will stop fighting you. Terror is the best weapon in war. Lesson Learned by Japanese: ? |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:25:01 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mindset of Japanese: History teaches us the enemy are incapable of learning without brutal force, so lessons need to be as hard as possible. And if you make the enemy fear you, they will stop fighting you. Terror is the best weapon in war. Lesson Learned by Japanese: ? |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:25:34 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Japanese weren't very nice people. |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:27:13 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mindset of Japanese: History teaches us the enemy are incapable of learning without brutal force, so lessons need to be as hard as possible. And if you make the enemy fear you, they will stop fighting you. Terror is the best weapon in war. Lesson Learned by Japanese: ? |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:27:41 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've frankly never understood the "honor" thing in the Asian culture. I've worked in health care, retail, good service, law enforcement, and other industries, and I've met more dishonest, conniving, weasely folks from so called "honorable" cultures than any other. |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:29:39 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
because non-white people are never actually evil, they are merely misunderstood or perhaps misguided and communism is swell durrr.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This has always puzzled me. Everyone talks about the Nazis as the epitome of evil-but the Japs and soviets were by body count orders of magnitude worse. So why don't they get the same air time? and communism is swell durrr.... |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:30:07 PM EDT
[#33]
"A man away from home has no neighbors." Japanese proverb
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:30:36 PM EDT
[#34]
I'm suprised a Type 26 Jap. revolver made it three rounds in a row without indexing the cylinder.....Must have been a old S&W #3.
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:30:45 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This has always puzzled me. Everyone talks about the Nazis as the epitome of evil-but the Japs and soviets were by body count orders of magnitude worse. So why don't they get the same air time? Currently the majority of younger Japanese are convinced Japan was the victim in WWII. We only hanged a hand full of the worst due to the Soviet threat at the time. Once Korea came along, all war crime investigation was stopped. 
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:32:04 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the one thing we had going both for and against us with the japenese is that they had a coherent and 'modern' culture and civilization and you could attack 'pressure points' of that civilization and defeat it (threaten the emperor for instance). this is the advantage we dont have in the afghanistan is there is nothing but a bunch of disparate clans and tribes. there is nothing central to defeat. Japan was a nation state. We never threatened the Emperor until Japan surrendered, and then we shortly threatened him by dangling the threat of a trial for war crimes (in which he would definitely have been found guilty), but we didn't because we were worried of Japan going communist if we destroyed their culture too much so we kept him in power but removed all his power over politics so he was just a puppet figurehead afterwards. We're not at war with the nation state of Afghanistan, we're allies with their govt (which we created and support) and are in country on their request to help stabilize their nation and defeat an insurgency against said nation state. We are fighting non-state actors and those can never be treated remotely similar to how we fight wars against Nation States. Apples and Oranges. |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:32:25 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Welcome to |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:33:02 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Welcome to war 
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:34:22 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They didn't need to be, they're powerful and terror was how they maintained it. That's why China is still Japanese today, because the IJA applied max level of violence. They understood total war and terror and reaped the long term benefits for being masters of it. and 'china is still japanse today'? what does that mean. |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:34:29 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We're appalled by their actions, but historically raping and pillaging and wholesale rampant murder was just part of being conquered. No such thing as honor for victims during war time. |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:34:55 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've frankly never understood the "honor" thing in the Asian culture. I've worked in health care, retail, good service, law enforcement, and other industries, and I've met more dishonest, conniving, weasely folks from so called "honorable" cultures than any other. |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:35:31 PM EDT
[#42]
Contest to kill 100 people using a sword
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contest_to_kill_100_people_using_a_sword |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:36:05 PM EDT
[#43]
Three different terms here. Honor, depravity and Bushido. The Japanese were depraved to the point of bloodlust. They utilized principle of Bushido to wantonly destroy anything in their path without regard to basic morality. Ironic that the dropping of the atom bombs was a huge act of Bushido. Only a severe shock would bring them back to reality.
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:39:36 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds about right. They were animals. I never have and never will feel guilty about the Atomic Bombs we used on them. The bought both and then some, the way I see it. The fact that modern historical account has conveniently omitted many of the horrible acts committed by the Japanese is a crime in and of itself. |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:42:46 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This has always puzzled me. Everyone talks about the Nazis as the epitome of evil-but the Japs and soviets were by body count orders of magnitude worse. So why don't they get the same air time? Most people think that most Jews that were killed were German when in reality most Jews alive in Germany in 1933 left years before der Endlösung. Most German Jews survived to emmigrate and have told the stories of their relatives,Polish Jews to a lesser extent but few think about the Ukrainian,Belarusian,Hungarian,Baltic communities that were near entirely wiped out. Those who survive to tell the story tell the story. On the other hand,very few Chinese witnesses to Japan and Mao emmigrated between 1945-1976 or Ukrainians who witnessed the Holodomor and so forth. Quite a bit is cultural proximity. German ancestory is a huge part of the US,not so much Chinese or Cambodian so Anne Frank's diary is more relatable than The Killing Fields or Rape of Nanking. |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:42:58 PM EDT
[#46]
Pretty horrific stuff there OP. Pretty much the norm for history though except for the scale. Conquerors were rarely benevolent.
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:43:09 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's no wonder the Chinese have little love for the Japanese. |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:46:50 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
On December 13, about 30 soldiers came to a Chinese house at #5 Hsing Lu Koo in the southeastern part of Nanking, and demanded entrance. The door was open by the landlord, a Mohammedan named Ha. They killed him immediately with a revolver and also Mrs. Ha, who knelt before them after Ha's death, begging them not to kill anyone else. Mrs. Ha asked them why they killed her husband and they shot her. Mrs. Hsia was dragged out from under a table in the guest hall where she had tried to hide with her 1 year old baby. After being stripped and raped by one or more men, she was bayoneted in the chest, and then had a bottle thrust into her vagina. The baby was killed with a bayonet. Some soldiers then went to the next room, where Mrs. Hsia's parents, aged 76 and 74, and her two daughters aged 16 and 14 [were]. They were about to rape the girls when the grandmother tried to protect them. The soldiers killed her with a revolver. The grandfather grasped the body of his wife and was killed. The two girls were then stripped, the elder being raped by 2–3 men, and the younger by 3. The older girl was stabbed afterwards and a cane was rammed in her vagina. The younger girl was bayoneted also but was spared the horrible treatment that had been meted out to her sister and mother. The soldiers then bayoneted another sister of between 7–8, who was also in the room. The last murders in the house were of Ha's two children, aged 4 and 2 respectively. The older was bayoneted and the younger split down through the head with a sword.[67] Wikipedia. According to one narrative, this is the fault of the Western powers. Japan being humiliated by the technological superiority of what they regarded as an inferior race, blamed Chinese regional hegemony and the failure of China to keep the foreign devils out. That blame turning to rage and an intense desire to punish China. If we would have just left them alone to tend to their goldfish, none of this would have happened. |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:51:08 PM EDT
[#49]
WW2 lasted four years because the USA had honorable men like Curtis Lemay. He was able to use the means necessary to end the war.
Compare that to the current Afghanistan war, in which the battles rarely make the news, but one bomb (MOAB) is newsworthy. |
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Posted: 8/23/2017 1:53:07 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
WW2 lasted four years because the USA had honorable men like Curtis Lemay. He was able to use the means necessary to end the war. Compare that to the current Afghanistan war, in which the battles rarely make the news, but one bomb (MOAB) is newsworthy. |
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