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Posted: 8/23/2017 12:56:10 PM EDT
On December 13, about 30 soldiers came to a Chinese house at #5 Hsing Lu Koo in the southeastern part of Nanking, and demanded entrance. The door was open by the landlord, a Mohammedan named Ha. They killed him immediately with a revolver and also Mrs. Ha, who knelt before them after Ha's death, begging them not to kill anyone else. Mrs. Ha asked them why they killed her husband and they shot her. Mrs. Hsia was dragged out from under a table in the guest hall where she had tried to hide with her 1 year old baby. After being stripped and raped by one or more men, she was bayoneted in the chest, and then had a bottle thrust into her vagina. The baby was killed with a bayonet. Some soldiers then went to the next room, where Mrs. Hsia's parents, aged 76 and 74, and her two daughters aged 16 and 14 [were]. They were about to rape the girls when the grandmother tried to protect them. The soldiers killed her with a revolver. The grandfather grasped the body of his wife and was killed. The two girls were then stripped, the elder being raped by 2–3 men, and the younger by 3. The older girl was stabbed afterwards and a cane was rammed in her vagina. The younger girl was bayoneted also but was spared the horrible treatment that had been meted out to her sister and mother. The soldiers then bayoneted another sister of between 7–8, who was also in the room. The last murders in the house were of Ha's two children, aged 4 and 2 respectively. The older was bayoneted and the younger split down through the head with a sword.[67]

Wikipedia.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 12:58:44 PM EDT
[#1]
It's no wonder the Chinese have little love for the Japanese.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 12:59:25 PM EDT
[#2]
This has always puzzled me.
Everyone talks about the Nazis as the epitome of evil-but the Japs and soviets were by body count orders of magnitude worse.
So why don't they get the same air time?
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:00:56 PM EDT
[#3]
Sounds about right.

They were animals.

I never have and never will feel guilty about the Atomic Bombs we used on them. The bought both and then some, the way I see it.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:01:45 PM EDT
[#4]
I've frankly never understood the "honor" thing in the Asian culture. I've worked in health care, retail, good service, law enforcement, and other industries, and I've met more dishonest, conniving, weasely folks from so called  "honorable" cultures than any other.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:02:28 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This has always puzzled me.
Everyone talks about the Nazis as the epitome of evil-but the Japs and soviets were by body count orders of magnitude worse.
So why don't they get the same air time?
View Quote
because non-white people are never actually evil, they are merely misunderstood or perhaps misguided

and communism is swell

durrr....
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:02:38 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This has always puzzled me.
Everyone talks about the Nazis as the epitome of evil-but the Japs and soviets were by body count orders of magnitude worse.
So why don't they get the same air time?
View Quote
Don't know about Japanese.  Maybe MacArthur shielded them. They needed put in their place
And made to own their actions. Emperor and associates needed public humiliation.
Too harsh ? Well, gut yourself as your "honor" demands

The Russians commies had so many lib
Sympathizers
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:05:53 PM EDT
[#7]
If you view the enemy as subhuman, there is no conflict with honor when you commit atrocities on them.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:07:28 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It's no wonder the Chinese have little love for the Japanese.
View Quote
The Japanese fucked up Nanking.

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/the-rape-of-nanking
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:08:36 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This has always puzzled me.
Everyone talks about the Nazis as the epitome of evil-but the Japs and soviets were by body count orders of magnitude worse.
So why don't they get the same air time?
View Quote
who controls the air
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:10:03 PM EDT
[#10]
Fuck them. They did get a free pass. Sick fucks. We should have dropped 100 more on them.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:10:22 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This has always puzzled me.
Everyone talks about the Nazis as the epitome of evil-but the Japs and soviets were by body count orders of magnitude worse.
So why don't they get the same air time?
View Quote
Because the nazis were competition to the international socialists. They couldn't have national socialism which was a very credible and existential threat to international socialism be allowed to exist.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:11:13 PM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:11:15 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This has always puzzled me.
Everyone talks about the Nazis as the epitome of evil-but the Japs and soviets were by body count orders of magnitude worse.
So why don't they get the same air time?
View Quote
Well, the Nazis certainly had a special hatred for members of the Jewish faith. That said, and with so many members of that faith being disproportionately part of Hollywood, the media and academia, it is quite likely that the Germans tend to get singled-out more (receive more attention) for the atrocities which they committed.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:11:55 PM EDT
[#14]
We're appalled by their actions, but historically raping and pillaging and wholesale rampant murder was just part of being conquered.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:12:26 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Don't know about Japanese.  Maybe MacArthur shielded them. They needed put in their place
And made to own their actions. Emperor and associates needed public humiliation.
Too harsh ? Well, gut yourself as your "honor" demands

The Russians commies had so many lib
Sympathizers
View Quote
The russian commies still have so many lib sympathizers.

Postwar, I think the sentiment was that after the nukes they were so thoroughly beaten there wasn't much point.   A lot of them did face war crimes trials and execution.  Most of the top brass had already suicided anyway.

Another factor was the cold war.  The japs and the germans were and are natural allies vs the russians and chinese.   Look at how that relationship is paying off right now with the norks.   One thing we did right after ww2 was not to repeat the mistakes of ww1 and institute harsh penalties.  All that did was piss off the germans and make commies and nazis popular.  

Making them friends, even at gunpoint, was the right call.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:12:27 PM EDT
[#16]
The Nazis didn't hold a candle to the Japs.

Unit 731
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:12:34 PM EDT
[#17]
As bad as the Germans in WW2, the Russians made them look civilized,  in turn the Japanese made the Russian look civilized .

from what I read Allied POW camps lost about 3-5% deaths, the German POW camps lost 10-15%, No on knows about the Russian POW camps, but the Japanese had 35-38% of their prisoners die

The Russians kept their prisoners and worked them to death for the most part. Some were re-parioatied  in the 50's . One German sniper got to go home in 1992!!!!
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:15:13 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
On December 13, about 30 soldiers came to a Chinese house at #5 Hsing Lu Koo in the southeastern part of Nanking, and demanded entrance. The door was open by the landlord, a Mohammedan named Ha. They killed him immediately with a revolver and also Mrs. Ha, who knelt before them after Ha's death, begging them not to kill anyone else. Mrs. Ha asked them why they killed her husband and they shot her. Mrs. Hsia was dragged out from under a table in the guest hall where she had tried to hide with her 1 year old baby. After being stripped and raped by one or more men, she was bayoneted in the chest, and then had a bottle thrust into her vagina. The baby was killed with a bayonet. Some soldiers then went to the next room, where Mrs. Hsia's parents, aged 76 and 74, and her two daughters aged 16 and 14 [were]. They were about to rape the girls when the grandmother tried to protect them. The soldiers killed her with a revolver. The grandfather grasped the body of his wife and was killed. The two girls were then stripped, the elder being raped by 2–3 men, and the younger by 3. The older girl was stabbed afterwards and a cane was rammed in her vagina. The younger girl was bayoneted also but was spared the horrible treatment that had been meted out to her sister and mother. The soldiers then bayoneted another sister of between 7–8, who was also in the room. The last murders in the house were of Ha's two children, aged 4 and 2 respectively. The older was bayoneted and the younger split down through the head with a sword.[67]

Wikipedia.
View Quote


Welcome to war
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:16:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Watching cartoons with my kid at the inlaws house in Wuhan earlier this year, there was one about Japanese soldiers butt-stroking a kid and stealing the livestock he was tending. The kid informs the local CCP cadre who sends troops to destroy the IJA blockhouse. It's as if the Anti-Japanese War just concluded. All that said, I absolutely understand the Chinese hatred for Japan. The magnitude of Japanese atrocities in China are overwhelming and quite frankly medieval in nature.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:16:52 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This has always puzzled me.
Everyone talks about the Nazis as the epitome of evil-but the Japs and soviets were by body count orders of magnitude worse.
So why don't they get the same air time?
View Quote
The Soviets were "friends" and the Japs were "animals". Nazis are considered the most evil because they look like us.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:17:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Not so much honor we were dealing with in WWII soldiers as it was "Bushido". I don't think bayonetting babies was necessarily verboten.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:18:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:19:18 PM EDT
[#23]
And you know what? 

Everyday Japanese people have no idea this ever happened, because they've all but erased it from their educational texts and culture. 
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:19:19 PM EDT
[#24]
the japanese did not sign the geneva convention.

and many american soldiers captured by them learned the reality of that fact. for a few facts including eating your captives (cannibalism) japanese war crimes

ISIS tops the japanese in video atrocities for advertising but are pikers in savagery and evil when compared.

the 'honor' of the japanese was to themselves, their culture, the emperor and bushido. the japanese despised the brits and the americans because they surrender instead of killing themselves. no honor at all unless you were japanese also.


Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:20:19 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Not so much honor we were dealing with in WWII soldiers as it was "Bushido". I don't think bayonetting babies was necessarily verboten.
View Quote
Bayonetted babies don't grown up.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:23:21 PM EDT
[#26]
The Japanese weren't very nice people.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:23:40 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
On December 13, about 30 soldiers came to a Chinese house at #5 Hsing Lu Koo in the southeastern part of Nanking, and demanded entrance. The door was open by the landlord, a Mohammedan named Ha. They killed him immediately with a revolver and also Mrs. Ha, who knelt before them after Ha's death, begging them not to kill anyone else. Mrs. Ha asked them why they killed her husband and they shot her. Mrs. Hsia was dragged out from under a table in the guest hall where she had tried to hide with her 1 year old baby. After being stripped and raped by one or more men, she was bayoneted in the chest, and then had a bottle thrust into her vagina. The baby was killed with a bayonet. Some soldiers then went to the next room, where Mrs. Hsia's parents, aged 76 and 74, and her two daughters aged 16 and 14 [were]. They were about to rape the girls when the grandmother tried to protect them. The soldiers killed her with a revolver. The grandfather grasped the body of his wife and was killed. The two girls were then stripped, the elder being raped by 2–3 men, and the younger by 3. The older girl was stabbed afterwards and a cane was rammed in her vagina. The younger girl was bayoneted also but was spared the horrible treatment that had been meted out to her sister and mother. The soldiers then bayoneted another sister of between 7–8, who was also in the room. The last murders in the house were of Ha's two children, aged 4 and 2 respectively. The older was bayoneted and the younger split down through the head with a sword.[67]

Wikipedia.
View Quote


Mindset of Japanese:
History teaches us the enemy are incapable of learning without brutal force, so lessons need to be as hard as possible. And if you make the enemy fear you, they will stop fighting you. Terror is the best weapon in war.

Lesson Learned by Japanese:
?
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:25:01 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Mindset of Japanese:
History teaches us the enemy are incapable of learning without brutal force, so lessons need to be as hard as possible. And if you make the enemy fear you, they will stop fighting you. Terror is the best weapon in war.

Lesson Learned by Japanese:
?
View Quote
Don't start none, won't be none.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:25:34 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The Japanese weren't very nice people.
View Quote
They didn't need to be, they're powerful and terror was how they maintained it. That's why China is still Japanese today, because the IJA applied max level of violence. They understood total war and terror and reaped the long term benefits for being masters of it.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:27:13 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Mindset of Japanese:
History teaches us the enemy are incapable of learning without brutal force, so lessons need to be as hard as possible. And if you make the enemy fear you, they will stop fighting you. Terror is the best weapon in war.

Lesson Learned by Japanese:
?
View Quote
the one thing we had going both for and against us with the japenese is that they had a coherent and 'modern' culture and civilization and you could attack 'pressure points' of that civilization and defeat it (threaten the emperor for instance). this is the advantage we dont have in the afghanistan is there is nothing but a bunch of disparate clans and tribes. there is nothing central to defeat.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:27:41 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I've frankly never understood the "honor" thing in the Asian culture. I've worked in health care, retail, good service, law enforcement, and other industries, and I've met more dishonest, conniving, weasely folks from so called  "honorable" cultures than any other.
View Quote
Its all religion based, all the main Asian religions have a strong worship of ancestry and highly codified moral conduct so what people do in life literally "echos for eternity." But that honor doesn't mean the same thing we believe it to be, because most of us here aren't Asians and don't follow their religions. Honor is a very fluid term.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:29:39 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
because non-white people are never actually evil, they are merely misunderstood or perhaps misguided

and communism is swell

durrr....
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
This has always puzzled me.
Everyone talks about the Nazis as the epitome of evil-but the Japs and soviets were by body count orders of magnitude worse.
So why don't they get the same air time?
because non-white people are never actually evil, they are merely misunderstood or perhaps misguided

and communism is swell

durrr....
Because the Nazis industrialized it. Also it was official policy from the top down. Hitler, the leader of the Nazi party and ruling party of Germany, sanctioned it. In the case of the USSR and Japan it was mostly soldiers doing what they wanted. No doubt many high ranking Soviets and Japanese would turn a blind eye to the actions or had other priorities, but actively engaging in a genocide was not a priority. It was for the Nazis though.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:30:07 PM EDT
[#33]
"A man away from home has no neighbors." Japanese proverb
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:30:36 PM EDT
[#34]
I'm suprised a Type 26 Jap. revolver made it three rounds in a row without indexing the cylinder.....Must have been a old S&W #3.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:30:45 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This has always puzzled me.
Everyone talks about the Nazis as the epitome of evil-but the Japs and soviets were by body count orders of magnitude worse.
So why don't they get the same air time?
View Quote
The Japanese government has spent untold millions on propaganda efforts since 1945 trying to cover up and revise history.

Currently the majority of younger Japanese are convinced Japan was the victim in WWII.

We only hanged a hand full of the worst due to the Soviet threat at the time.  Once Korea came along, all war crime investigation was stopped.

Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:32:04 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
the one thing we had going both for and against us with the japenese is that they had a coherent and 'modern' culture and civilization and you could attack 'pressure points' of that civilization and defeat it (threaten the emperor for instance). this is the advantage we dont have in the afghanistan is there is nothing but a bunch of disparate clans and tribes. there is nothing central to defeat.
View Quote
I get what you're saying but let me elaborate a bit.

Japan was a nation state. We never threatened the Emperor until Japan surrendered, and then we shortly threatened him by dangling the threat of a trial for war crimes (in which he would definitely have been found guilty), but we didn't because we were worried of Japan going communist if we destroyed their culture too much so we kept him in power but removed all his power over politics so he was just a puppet figurehead afterwards.

We're not at war with the nation state of Afghanistan, we're allies with their govt (which we created and support) and are in country on their request to help stabilize their nation and defeat an insurgency against said nation state. We are fighting non-state actors and those can never be treated remotely similar to how we fight wars against Nation States. Apples and Oranges.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:32:25 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Welcome to war war crimes
View Quote
Fixed it for you.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:33:02 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Welcome to war
View Quote
Welcome to human nature.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:34:22 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

They didn't need to be, they're powerful and terror was how they maintained it. That's why China is still Japanese today, because the IJA applied max level of violence. They understood total war and terror and reaped the long term benefits for being masters of it.
View Quote
thats an odd statement. they maintained power because they had one of the best 2 or 3 militaries in the world. you dont need terror in that instance. they simply enjoyed torturing folks who were not japanese and that behavior was deeply seated in the japanese culture.

and 'china is still japanse today'? what does that mean.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:34:29 PM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
We're appalled by their actions, but historically raping and pillaging and wholesale rampant murder was just part of being conquered.
View Quote
This!

No such thing as honor for victims during war time.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:34:55 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I've frankly never understood the "honor" thing in the Asian culture. I've worked in health care, retail, good service, law enforcement, and other industries, and I've met more dishonest, conniving, weasely folks from so called  "honorable" cultures than any other.
View Quote
Yea ok, master.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:35:31 PM EDT
[#42]
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:36:05 PM EDT
[#43]
Three different terms here. Honor, depravity and Bushido. The Japanese were depraved to the point of bloodlust. They utilized principle of Bushido to wantonly destroy  anything in their path without regard to basic morality. Ironic that the dropping of the atom bombs was a huge act of Bushido. Only a severe shock would bring them back to reality.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:39:36 PM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Sounds about right.

They were animals.

I never have and never will feel guilty about the Atomic Bombs we used on them. The bought both and then some, the way I see it.
View Quote
This.

The fact that modern historical account has conveniently omitted many of the horrible acts committed by the Japanese is a crime in and of itself.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:42:46 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This has always puzzled me.
Everyone talks about the Nazis as the epitome of evil-but the Japs and soviets were by body count orders of magnitude worse.
So why don't they get the same air time?
View Quote
 

  Most people think that most Jews that were killed were German when in reality most Jews alive in Germany in 1933 left years before der Endlösung. Most German Jews survived to emmigrate and have told the stories of their relatives,Polish Jews to a lesser extent but few think about the Ukrainian,Belarusian,Hungarian,Baltic communities that were near entirely wiped out. Those who survive to tell the story tell the story.

  On the other hand,very few Chinese witnesses to Japan and Mao emmigrated between 1945-1976  or Ukrainians who witnessed the Holodomor and so forth.

  Quite a bit is cultural proximity. German ancestory is a huge part of the US,not so much Chinese or Cambodian so  Anne Frank's diary is more relatable than The Killing Fields or Rape of Nanking.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:42:58 PM EDT
[#46]
Pretty horrific stuff there OP. Pretty much the norm for history though except for the scale. Conquerors were rarely benevolent.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:43:09 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It's no wonder the Chinese have little love for the Japanese.
View Quote
Nor does any other asian culture that dealt with Japan in WW2. Even today, the absolute hatred runs very deep. If, for whatever reason you want to piss an Asian off, call them a "fu#$%&g Jap". That will run deeper then any other slam you give them but realize, get ready from 0 to 60 in 3 flat.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:46:50 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
On December 13, about 30 soldiers came to a Chinese house at #5 Hsing Lu Koo in the southeastern part of Nanking, and demanded entrance. The door was open by the landlord, a Mohammedan named Ha. They killed him immediately with a revolver and also Mrs. Ha, who knelt before them after Ha's death, begging them not to kill anyone else. Mrs. Ha asked them why they killed her husband and they shot her. Mrs. Hsia was dragged out from under a table in the guest hall where she had tried to hide with her 1 year old baby. After being stripped and raped by one or more men, she was bayoneted in the chest, and then had a bottle thrust into her vagina. The baby was killed with a bayonet. Some soldiers then went to the next room, where Mrs. Hsia's parents, aged 76 and 74, and her two daughters aged 16 and 14 [were]. They were about to rape the girls when the grandmother tried to protect them. The soldiers killed her with a revolver. The grandfather grasped the body of his wife and was killed. The two girls were then stripped, the elder being raped by 2–3 men, and the younger by 3. The older girl was stabbed afterwards and a cane was rammed in her vagina. The younger girl was bayoneted also but was spared the horrible treatment that had been meted out to her sister and mother. The soldiers then bayoneted another sister of between 7–8, who was also in the room. The last murders in the house were of Ha's two children, aged 4 and 2 respectively. The older was bayoneted and the younger split down through the head with a sword.[67]

Wikipedia.
View Quote


According to one narrative, this is the fault of the Western powers. Japan being humiliated by the technological superiority of what they regarded as an inferior race, blamed Chinese regional hegemony and the failure of China to keep the foreign devils out. That blame turning to rage and an intense desire to punish China. If we would have just left them alone to tend to their goldfish, none of this would have happened.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:51:08 PM EDT
[#49]
WW2 lasted four years because the USA had honorable men like Curtis Lemay.  He was able to use the means necessary to end the war. 
Compare that to the current Afghanistan war, in which the battles rarely make the news, but one bomb (MOAB) is newsworthy. 
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:53:07 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
WW2 lasted four years because the USA had honorable men like Curtis Lemay.  He was able to use the means necessary to end the war. 
Compare that to the current Afghanistan war, in which the battles rarely make the news, but one bomb (MOAB) is newsworthy. 
View Quote
What did Curtis Lemay do to end the war?
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