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Posted: 8/19/2004 6:02:01 PM EST
Kerry has made his service in VN an issue, because we have troops in combat, Bush was not 'in country', and he needs to have something that stands out. In doing so, the Republicans have taken the bait, and have dwelled upon the issue instead of attacking his post 1972 performance. The bottom line is that few will be swayed. No matter what the truth of the matter is, Kerry will always come back and say 'You were Stateside'.

Please, no flames, I'm telling you this as a member of the older segment of the younger generation. I was born in 1970. My observation is that most people under 40 don't give a crap about either guys service in VN. The water cooler conversation is not about VN. I guess since we did not live it or around it, it's not palatable to us. I would love for Kerry to be exposed as the opportunist slimeball he is, but this issue doesn't have the traction. This is not to say that it doesn't matter as a part of character evaluation, it does. Unfortunately, the issue has become so clouded that it's no longer interesting to the typical attention span. To those of us 40 and under, arguing about what 22 year olds did 35 years ago seems a bit outlandish. ATTACK HIM ON CURRENT ISSUES!!! By failing to do so, the Republicans implicityly agree with the Democratic position that they don't have any 'ideas'.

The average <40 voter, just doesn't care about this issue apart from the party line they've been given...

For the record, I'm a Bush Voter and think Kerry is a shmoe.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:05:56 PM EST
He is...

VA may be gettin a little less attention, but up here in WI, the campaingn is running spots with clips of Kerry's speech (where he promises to fix our intelegence services & strenghten the couintry) while the announcer rattles off how Kerry voted to cut intelegence right after 9/11, and so on...

Bush REALLY wants to take this state....
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:10:28 PM EST
We have that one too. My comments are more directed toward the constant news about how this crew member supports him, or this officer doesn't...

My point is that few actually care, especially the younger voters. Hell, Clintons direct dodge didn't play, and you're kidding yourself if you think the average voter thinks the 'War on Terror' has changed the landscape with respect to Vietnam.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:11:57 PM EST
I agree in large. While the Swiftboat Veterans has cost Kerry some points among veterans (according to CNN earlier this evening), the real issue is not what happened during the war. The real issue is what each man has done in politics. Bush has shown strong leadership while everything Kerry has shown since just proves how wishy-washy, weak and what a pansy he is. That is the real issue and needs to be focused on. Afterall, we aren't electing a president to fly jets or drive boats, we are electing the president to lead this nation. When you look at who's best suited to do that, Bush wins hands down. I agree, that's what we need to focus on.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:13:11 PM EST
I believe that the 40 and older crowd is a strong percentage of the actual voting population. When I go to vote there are more people older than me voting than younger and I am 44 years old. My whole adult life I have not forgot what that traitor Jane Fonda did and what Kerry did. To me the issue is crystal clear. There are still plenty of days to scrutinize his record.

Beside honesty, integrity, fidelity, loyalty, are all things I look for in a president and Kerry has none of these.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:16:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 6:17:11 PM EST by Cypher214]
You make it sound like Bush's group are the ones going after Kerry's military service... they aren't.

The veterans who served with Kerry are the ones attacking his military service... with good reason. He called them baby killers and criminals and now he is riding solely on his service.

It is the equivelant of a kid beating up the school nerd until he finds out that the nerd's sister is hot so he pretends to be buddy-buddy with the nerd to get with the sister.

Bush's camp have not even begun to destroy Kerry. A man with that many skeletons in his closet will be EASY.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:19:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By Cypher214:

Bush's camp have not even begun to destroy Kerry. A man with that many skeletons in his closet will be EASY.



Bush's campaign may not even need to. Kerry is doing just fine on his own in that respect.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:21:37 PM EST
I was born in 1951 and I remember Vietnam. Still I'm more interested in the candidate's future plans than re-living what happened back then. So far I have heard little from either side regarding their vision of the future.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:23:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 10:31:25 PM EST by Col_Colt]
ECS and all - GET THE BOOK and read! Kerry even admitted visiting the VC and NVA Representitives in Paris in 1970, apparently to coordinate Vietnam Veterans Against the War actions with them, while still a US Navy Officer (Reserve) during a shooting war. And the FBI was watching him as the VVAW Spokesman. Treason, anyone?

How about Kerry calling ALL US Veterans that served in Vietnam "War Criminals" in Congress and on the road with "Hanoi Jane"? The Communists never won a battle - they beat America in the Public Opinion war - and Kerry was one of their Generals in that fight. The North Vietnamese even have his picture as one of their heros in their War Museum. They know what he did.

The issue, far more important that whatever "plans for the future" a candidate may lie about to get elected, is the man's honor and character. Thus what he did - lying to get medals, taking 8MM film of himself (staged) for use at a future Democratic National Convention, self inflicted wounds and running from a fight - are all relevant - Much more than "the future". That's a Democratic style copout, guys. Without character - or with a lying Weasel character - I don't want him in control of Sanitation, let alone our future. John Kerry being a self promoting liar isn't relevant to your choice of him as President? If you younger guys are that far gone, you really are a waste of air and food. Too much time on the video games, guys. If you don't know current History you are voting from a profound ignorance and your vote is Dangerous - kind of like a carelessly handled gun. Learn what the H is going on - or don't vote.

Right and Wrong, Good and Evil are in your world, every day. Your choices help one or the other. Think about it. Character MATTERS more than anything else in a leader!

Warmly, Col. Colt

Want to continue to own guns? Never vote Democratic again, as long as you live.

This election will decide the future of Mankind, not just the US.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:35:52 PM EST
The VN issue is relevant as it goes to character then and NOW. Kerry has done nothing but pound his chest and proclaim his heroism.

BUT, I agree, his liberal/socialistic voting record in the Senate is MUCH more troublesome. Along with his almost compulsive flip-flopping to be everything to everyone.

Disturbing.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:47:23 PM EST
If there's a bright side to this debate, it's the fact we have a seemingly endless list of reasons to hate Kerry. When we argue among ourselves over which issue to use, you have to think Kerry has some problems. LOL.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:54:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By TexasRooter:
I believe that the 40 and older crowd is a strong percentage of the actual voting population. When I go to vote there are more people older than me voting than younger and I am 44 years old. My whole adult life I have not forgot what that traitor Jane Fonda did and what Kerry did. To me the issue is crystal clear. There are still plenty of days to scrutinize his record.

Beside honesty, integrity, fidelity, loyalty, are all things I look for in a president and Kerry has none of these.



bama lama ding dong....

Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:54:52 PM EST
The bottom line is, the people in this country that want "hand outs" are gonna vote for kerry. All we can do is try to keep that number to a minimum.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:11:53 AM EST
I think the Swift Vets are a net postivie for Bush.

But Kerry's huge problem is if he wins. There are now a pile of allegations that he cheated in getting medals and lied in after-action reports. This will make him a joke among the armed services that he will command. He's been pre-Clintonized.

Kerry is screwed if he wins. He's already promised a return to normalcy, which is just not possible. If there is another terror attack, and a worse attack, people are going to be all over Kerry since he explicitly promised to do a better job on the terror war.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:17:29 AM EST
The real questions should be

1. Why did you not report so called human rights abuses that you testified under oath to have seen in Vietnam?
2. Who committed these so called atrocities?
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:18:58 AM EST
They basic issue is one of honesty, integrity, and policies.

For me Bush has proven to be a man of honest integrity. I agree with most of his policies.

Likewise, Kerry has shown that he remains a man of dishonesty and a a complete lack of integrity. I am unsure of his policies because he has taken a stand on both sides and the middle of virtually everything. Kerry has a history of being a complete a turd.

Vietnam matters because Kerry of Cambodia, Capt. Kerratio Hornblower, and Benedict Kerry are still with us today in the personage of John Heinz Kerry.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:21:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
... If there is another terror attack, and a worse attack, people are going to be all over Kerry since he explicitly promised to do a better job on the terror war.

GunLvr



Except it would be the media focusing on the terrorists and not putting any of the responsibility on Kerry like they have our President.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:24:26 AM EST
I was born in 1977 and I care a lot about Kerry's VN service. My cousin (first gen American of Russian descent) was killed by a mortar round in Quang Tin province after being in-country for one month. (Sept 1968). Not only does Kerry's behavior as a member of the military prove he is historically duplicitous and self-serving, it proves that he does not honor Americans who did their duty and died. As well as Americans that did their duty and did not build their careers on the brave and honorable actions during wartime. If he does not hold such Americans in a positive light, how does he view common citizens?
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:31:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By The_Neutral_Observer:

Originally Posted By Cypher214:

Bush's camp have not even begun to destroy Kerry. A man with that many skeletons in his closet will be EASY.



Bush's campaign may not even need to. Kerry is doing just fine on his own in that respect.



That's exactly what I'm seeing. The more Kerry talks and the more people ask him questions, the lower his percentage goes. He and his campaign people are killing themselves.
Here is KS/MO I haven't seen too many Bush adds. There's an occasional "I want to do this" kind of add, but he really isn't attacking Kerry here. Kerry mean while continues his "Bush is wrong" attitude without telling anyone what he can or could do better. Everytime he does that people leave with more questions than they started with and Kerry loses votes.

I say we contribute to HIS campaign as he's getting himself un-elected more every day.
When the season started it was all the "Anybody but Bush" attitude. Now people are starting to say, "Anybody, but Bush. Well,.....except this guy!"
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:32:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
Kerry has made his service in VN an issue, because we have troops in combat, Bush was not 'in country', and he needs to have something that stands out. In doing so, the Republicans have taken the bait, and have dwelled upon the issue instead of attacking his post 1972 performance.




Tactically, a smart move in my opinion.

KERRY is running on his VN record, HE made it an issue not the Rs, so he must think it is his strong suit. Fine. PLUS, he miscalculated the SwiftBoat guys. He knows that he is sheltered from attacks from Bush regarding his VN service. But he is NOT sheltered from private, non partisan, citizens.

When the VN hot potato gets dropped, the GOP is poised to step in an address his Senate record.

1 - 2 punch.... for the KO.

-LS
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:33:44 AM EST
Honor, Courage, Comittment

These three words are what is drilled into Sailors and Marines during bootcamp and throughout their military career.

Where is Kerry's Honor? He has none. He says he is war hero, yet he goes out and smears all the folks still fighting in Vietnam.

Where is Kerry's Courage? Why doesn't he have the courage to stand up for what HE believes in? Trying to be all things to all people doesn't show courage. Standing up for what is right even when everyone tells you it is wrong, is courage. Kerry has yet to show that yet.

Where is his Comittment? He says he is comitted to our troops yet he votes against moeny that they needed for supplies. He says he is comitted to the US yet he votes to cut intelligence spending AFTER 9/11. He says he will make the world safer than Bush, but will start pulling troops out of Iraq 6 months after he takes office.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:36:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By ECS:
I was born in 1951 and I remember Vietnam. Still I'm more interested in the candidate's future plans than re-living what happened back then. So far I have heard little from either side regarding their vision of the future.



+1
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:59:13 AM EST
Just about the only thing Kerry is running on so far is his service in VN so it is legit to attack him on it, especially as there are a few holes in his story, and his awards that he has paraded before the american people incessantly. Sure some people won't care one way or another. But some will. And the election will be won based on who gets the 10-15% undecided voters in the election.
Bush actually would like all of this to go away as he has a few problems in this regard as well.

They need to start criticizing him for a total lack of ideas. Force him to commit on issues while there is time to counterattack his positions.
Attack the party for its class warfare, high taxes, failed social policies, bungles foreign policy, etc. This might really be the best tactic. Turn it away from personal attacks and go after the party as a whole.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 9:52:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By PrivateJoker:

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
... If there is another terror attack, and a worse attack, people are going to be all over Kerry since he explicitly promised to do a better job on the terror war.

GunLvr



Except it would be the media focusing on the terrorists and not putting any of the responsibility on Kerry like they have our President.



That's why we have the Internet. You know a friend of mine saw one of Kerry's political operatives talking to some Arab guys at a bar last night.....

GunLvr
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