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Posted: 12/14/2013 6:29:12 AM EST
That's my POV.

It's you're right to disagree, but you'd be W R O N G . <---- period

I dare anyone to prove me wrong.

DARE!!!

Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:30:34 AM EST
So, all those amendment thingies?
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:31:28 AM EST
Some 3/5th citizens probably disagree with you.

Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:31:33 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Stryfe:
So, all those amendment thingies?
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16 and 17A fucked everything up.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:31:40 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Stryfe:
So, all those amendment thingies?
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Is the amendment process part of the Constitution?
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:32:43 AM EST
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Originally Posted By primuspilum:
Some 3/5th citizens probably disagree with you.

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I look around me and observe no 3/5 citizens.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:33:21 AM EST
So, the 16th and 17th amendments are perfect?
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:34:33 AM EST
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Originally Posted By shade_1313:
So, the 16th and 17th amendments are perfect?
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Does the Constitution provide for changing or repealing them?
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:34:59 AM EST
It didn't address the issue of slavery and left that for the Civil War to resolve.

It should have also fixed the number of justices on the Supreme Court. That way the Court could never be threatened like what that phugger FDR did.

I think the 16th & 17th Amendment really set this nation upon the downward path we trod today. Phuck Woody Wilson.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:35:00 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Zaminsky:


Is the amendment process part of the Constitution?
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Originally Posted By Zaminsky:
Originally Posted By Stryfe:
So, all those amendment thingies?


Is the amendment process part of the Constitution?

If it's perfect, there should be no reason to modify it.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:35:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By Zaminsky:
That's my POV.

It's you're right to disagree, but you'd be W R O N G . <---- period

I dare anyone to prove me wrong.

DARE!!!

View Quote


Bill of Rights.

/EOT
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:35:13 AM EST
I would say the original BoR was pretty much perfect.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:35:23 AM EST
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Originally Posted By primuspilum:
Some 3/5th citizens probably disagree with you.

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You might want to reread Article 1, Section 2, Paragraph 3
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:35:33 AM EST
IMO the 2A is also a little too vague. Took hundreds of years and a supreme court case before people even concluded that it was an individual right.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:35:55 AM EST
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Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:

16 and 17A fucked everything up.
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Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:
Originally Posted By Stryfe:
So, all those amendment thingies?

16 and 17A fucked everything up.

I'm not saying I agree with every amendment, simply pointing out that it's been modified. Does one modify perfection?
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:37:23 AM EST
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Originally Posted By 4v50:
It didn't address the issue of slavery and left that for the Civil War to resolve.

It should have also fixed the number of justices on the Supreme Court. That way the Court could never be threatened like what that phugger FDR did.

I think the 16th & 17th Amendment really set this nation upon the downward path we trod today. Phuck Woody Wilson.
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Civil war did not settle the issue of slavery, the amendment process of the Constitution did.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:38:19 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Visionary:
IMO the 2A is also a little too vague. Took hundreds of years and a supreme court case before people even concluded that it was an individual right.
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Who cares about the 2nd amendment when you have the 9th and 10th.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:38:37 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Stryfe:

If it's perfect, there should be no reason to modify it.
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Originally Posted By Stryfe:
Originally Posted By Zaminsky:
Originally Posted By Stryfe:
So, all those amendment thingies?


Is the amendment process part of the Constitution?

If it's perfect, there should be no reason to modify it.


It's perfection lies in it's ability to be changed without abandoning it.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:38:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/14/2013 6:40:16 AM EST by Cincinnatus]
They misspelled Pennsylvania and spelled it "Pensylvania."

That is not perfection.

Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:39:43 AM EST
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Originally Posted By NC_Preacher:


Bill of Rights.

/EOT
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Originally Posted By NC_Preacher:
Originally Posted By Zaminsky:
That's my POV.

It's you're right to disagree, but you'd be W R O N G . <---- period

I dare anyone to prove me wrong.

DARE!!!



Bill of Rights.

/EOT


Amendment process.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:39:58 AM EST
“But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist.”
- Lysander Spooner


One persons take on it.

Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:40:13 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
They misspelled Pennsylvania and spelled it "Pensylvania."

That is not perfection.
View Quote


Well maybe during their time they wanted it to be spelled Pensylvania. Plus that place sucks anyways.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:40:43 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Stryfe:

I'm not saying I agree with every amendment, simply pointing out that it's been modified. Does one modify perfection?
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Originally Posted By Stryfe:
Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:
Originally Posted By Stryfe:
So, all those amendment thingies?

16 and 17A fucked everything up.

I'm not saying I agree with every amendment, simply pointing out that it's been modified. Does one modify perfection?


See: Glock Gen4
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:42:06 AM EST
Thread is a moral fail.

Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:42:10 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Jinxsters:


Well maybe during their time they wanted it to be spelled Pensylvania. Plus that place sucks anyways.
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Originally Posted By Jinxsters:
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
They misspelled Pennsylvania and spelled it "Pensylvania."

That is not perfection.


Well maybe during their time they wanted it to be spelled Pensylvania. Plus that place sucks anyways.


One word: tunnels
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:43:05 AM EST
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Originally Posted By SaloSV:
Thread is a moral fail.

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But Constitution is perfect!
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:43:11 AM EST
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Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:

16 and 17A fucked everything up.
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Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:
Originally Posted By Stryfe:
So, all those amendment thingies?

16 and 17A fucked everything up.


This and the 14th
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:44:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/14/2013 6:45:10 AM EST by NC_Preacher]
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Originally Posted By Zaminsky:


Amendment process.
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Originally Posted By Zaminsky:
Originally Posted By NC_Preacher:
Originally Posted By Zaminsky:
That's my POV.

It's you're right to disagree, but you'd be W R O N G . <---- period

I dare anyone to prove me wrong.

DARE!!!



Bill of Rights.

/EOT


Amendment process.


You are working against yourself. That it allows amendments in the first place is an admission that it was imperfect. That it had to be amended highlights that imperfection.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:47:15 AM EST
The US Constitution is far from perfect. I can think of a lot of things I would change in it if I could.

That’s not the point.

The point is that a Constitutional Republic, which protects the rights of individuals, and which restricts the power of government is the best form of government. I did not say perfect, I said the best. And if we want to live in a Constitutional Republic we have to follow the Constitution. If we ignore it when it doesn’t suit our purposes or if we twist the meaning to our own desires, then we might as well not have a Constitution at all.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:47:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By Zaminsky:
That's my POV.

It's you're right to disagree, but you'd be W R O N G . <---- period

I dare anyone to prove me wrong.

DARE!!!

View Quote


I have decided that your opinion is moot, to me at least, until you Texans get your shit together and get Sheila Jackson Lee out of office.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:48:19 AM EST
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Originally Posted By NC_Preacher:


You are working against yourself. That it allows amendments in the first place is an admission that it was imperfect. That it had to be amended highlights that imperfection.
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Originally Posted By NC_Preacher:
Originally Posted By Zaminsky:
Originally Posted By NC_Preacher:
Originally Posted By Zaminsky:
That's my POV.

It's you're right to disagree, but you'd be W R O N G . <---- period

I dare anyone to prove me wrong.

DARE!!!



Bill of Rights.

/EOT


Amendment process.


You are working against yourself. That it allows amendments in the first place is an admission that it was imperfect. That it had to be amended highlights that imperfection.


This admission of imperfection by the Founding Fathers cemented perfection.

Few men would be so wise.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:48:34 AM EST
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Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:

You might want to reread Article 1, Section 2, Paragraph 3
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Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:
Originally Posted By primuspilum:
Some 3/5th citizens probably disagree with you.


You might want to reread Article 1, Section 2, Paragraph 3



Went back to refresh my recollection. What did I miss? Three fifths was not shitcanned until after the civil war. Which makes OP's "always perfect" dubious by my reckoning.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:48:40 AM EST
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Originally Posted By 4v50:
It didn't address the issue of slavery and left that for the Civil War to resolve.

It should have also fixed the number of justices on the Supreme Court. That way the Court could never be threatened like what that phugger FDR did.

I think the 16th & 17th Amendment really set this nation upon the downward path we trod today. Phuck Woody Wilson.
View Quote



FDR pushed the envelope of our Constitution much like Obama. Many thought he has good POTUS b/c he was CIC and got us out of WWII. He was so liked he had 4 terms. Thank goodness term limits have now been spelled out. Point is society easily gets disillusioned and sometimes we have to bear consequences in order to wake up and adjust. Our forefathers knew this better than we could image b/c they lived it. Our Constitution isn't perfect (nothing is), but it is right and allows us to adjust for times/circumstance. It would be near perfect if our politicians didn't make a mockery of it. So many unconstitutional things happening now.......we have to do a better job calling it out. Divisive politics allows crooks to get away with so much. Our Constitution cannot counter those elected who choose not honor it. FO time 200yrs ago was much less tempered than it is today.......we just whine on a monitor
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:51:20 AM EST
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Originally Posted By NC_Preacher:


I have decided that your opinion is moot, to me at least, until you Texans get your shit together and get Sheila Jackson Lee out of office.
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Originally Posted By NC_Preacher:
Originally Posted By Zaminsky:
That's my POV.

It's you're right to disagree, but you'd be W R O N G . <---- period

I dare anyone to prove me wrong.

DARE!!!



I have decided that your opinion is moot, to me at least, until you Texans get your shit together and get Sheila Jackson Lee out of office.


I have Joe Barton, the ONLY Republican who takes advantage of the House program that pays for a car in the home district for "official business".

Yeah, he drives a big old SUV cuz they're built here in district. "Ahz gots ta support em"
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:51:38 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Zaminsky:


Is the amendment process part of the Constitution?
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Originally Posted By Zaminsky:
Originally Posted By Stryfe:
So, all those amendment thingies?


Is the amendment process part of the Constitution?


If that's your argument then it falls flat because the amendment process could be used to do a lot of things which are less than perfect.

Very good system nonetheless and if your point is that it provides good people with a tool to get a good government, then you are right. The number one imperfection of the Constitution is that it relies on good people. I don't know that it's even possible but a theoretically "perfect" constitution would have everything nailed up front and not rely on fallible humans to maintain and update it.

Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:52:01 AM EST
If it was always perfect, explain the 18th Amendment. Many beer drinkers would wholeheartedly disagree.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:52:39 AM EST
Doesn't really matter now, as it's not being adhered to.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:52:56 AM EST
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Originally Posted By primuspilum:



Went back to refresh my recollection. What did I miss? Three fifths was not shitcanned until after the civil war. Which makes OP's "always perfect" dubious by my reckoning.
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Originally Posted By primuspilum:
Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:
Originally Posted By primuspilum:
Some 3/5th citizens probably disagree with you.


You might want to reread Article 1, Section 2, Paragraph 3



Went back to refresh my recollection. What did I miss? Three fifths was not shitcanned until after the civil war. Which makes OP's "always perfect" dubious by my reckoning.


It did not take a civil war to change that. That part was a failing of man.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:54:18 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:
Doesn't really matter now, as it's not being adhered to.
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Shit.

Here's your winner.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:56:57 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Zaminsky:


It did not take a civil war to change that. That part was a failing of man.
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Originally Posted By Zaminsky:
Originally Posted By primuspilum:
Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:
Originally Posted By primuspilum:
Some 3/5th citizens probably disagree with you.


You might want to reread Article 1, Section 2, Paragraph 3



Went back to refresh my recollection. What did I miss? Three fifths was not shitcanned until after the civil war. Which makes OP's "always perfect" dubious by my reckoning.


It did not take a civil war to change that. That part was a failing of man.


But it does not change the fact that chronologically, the 13,14 and 15th were adopted after the 1861-65 War of Southern Treachery.

Given that you appear to acknowledge that said calculus was wrong, it seems that "always" perfect is not appropriate.

I'd say the US Constitution was "inspired". Especially given the state of the governments of the world at the time it was written.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:58:09 AM EST
Might makes Right.

"Inasmuch as the Constitution was never signed, nor agreed to, by anybody, as a contract, and therefore never bound anybody, and is now binding upon nobody; and is, moreover, such an one as no people can ever hereafter be expected to consent to, except as they may be forced to do so at the point of the bayonet, it is perhaps of no importance what its true legal meaning, as a contract, is. Nevertheless, the writer thinks it proper to say that, in his opinion, the Constitution is no such instrument as it has generally been assumed to be; but that by false interpretations, and naked usurpations, the government has been made in practice a very widely, and almost wholly, different thing from what the Constitution itself purports to authorize. He has heretofore written much, and could write much more, to prove that such is the truth. But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain --- that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
View Quote
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 7:08:57 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Zaminsky:


Is the amendment process part of the Constitution?
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Originally Posted By Zaminsky:
Originally Posted By Stryfe:
So, all those amendment thingies?


Is the amendment process part of the Constitution?


Originally Posted By Zaminsky:
Originally Posted By primuspilum:
Some 3/5th citizens probably disagree with you.



I look around me and observe no 3/5 citizens.

So, have you even read it? Based on your comments, I would say if you did, you don't remember some key portions.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 7:11:17 AM EST
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Originally Posted By sovereign:
Might makes Right.

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Originally Posted By sovereign:
Might makes Right.

"Inasmuch as the Constitution was never signed, nor agreed to, by anybody, as a contract, and therefore never bound anybody, and is now binding upon nobody; and is, moreover, such an one as no people can ever hereafter be expected to consent to, except as they may be forced to do so at the point of the bayonet, it is perhaps of no importance what its true legal meaning, as a contract, is. Nevertheless, the writer thinks it proper to say that, in his opinion, the Constitution is no such instrument as it has generally been assumed to be; but that by false interpretations, and naked usurpations, the government has been made in practice a very widely, and almost wholly, different thing from what the Constitution itself purports to authorize. He has heretofore written much, and could write much more, to prove that such is the truth. But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain --- that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."


19th century trolling at its finest.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 8:57:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/14/2013 8:58:33 AM EST by psdavi01]
From this discussion it is painfully clear that some people have very strong opinions about something they know very little about...
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 9:00:30 AM EST
It's not perfect.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 9:09:29 AM EST
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Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:

16 and 17A fucked everything up.
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Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:
Originally Posted By Stryfe:
So, all those amendment thingies?

16 and 17A fucked everything up.


OP is Pubic Edjamucated.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 10:46:53 AM EST
Read up on American history, the Constitution was passed, a year later the founding fathers met to rewrite it because the states were taxing each other and the federal government had almost zero power, among other things. This 2nd Constitution is the one we know today. Also the bill of rights, 1,2,3 + amendments, didn't apply to the states, only the federal government until after the civil war. American Government 101. Today's Conservatives would have been called anti-federalists in that time period.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 10:48:46 AM EST
It aint perfect, not even close. And the framers made it so future amendments could be added or subtracted.

They say themselves "a more perfect union". The didn't say they achieved perfection and no further legislation would ever be needed again.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 10:49:45 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Stryfe:

I'm not saying I agree with every amendment, simply pointing out that it's been modified. Does one modify perfection?
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Originally Posted By Stryfe:
Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:
Originally Posted By Stryfe:
So, all those amendment thingies?

16 and 17A fucked everything up.

I'm not saying I agree with every amendment, simply pointing out that it's been modified. Does one modify perfection?
I've seen some pretty good glock stippling, so yeah.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 4:06:17 PM EST
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Originally Posted By primuspilum:



Went back to refresh my recollection. What did I miss? Three fifths was not shitcanned until after the civil war. Which makes OP's "always perfect" dubious by my reckoning.
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Originally Posted By primuspilum:
Originally Posted By DragoMuseveni:
Originally Posted By primuspilum:
Some 3/5th citizens probably disagree with you.


You might want to reread Article 1, Section 2, Paragraph 3



Went back to refresh my recollection. What did I miss? Three fifths was not shitcanned until after the civil war. Which makes OP's "always perfect" dubious by my reckoning.


It could have been amended at any time prior. That failing is of man.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 5:24:52 PM EST
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Originally Posted By NC_Preacher:


You are working against yourself. That it allows amendments in the first place is an admission that it was imperfect. That it had to be amended highlights that imperfection.
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Originally Posted By NC_Preacher:
Originally Posted By Zaminsky:
Originally Posted By NC_Preacher:
Originally Posted By Zaminsky:
That's my POV.

It's you're right to disagree, but you'd be W R O N G . <---- period

I dare anyone to prove me wrong.

DARE!!!



Bill of Rights.

/EOT


Amendment process.


You are working against yourself. That it allows amendments in the first place is an admission that it was imperfect. That it had to be amended highlights that imperfection.

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