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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/15/2010 8:48:15 PM EDT

1. Liberty ALWAYS Trumps Tyrany
2. The People, NOT The Government Produces Wealth and Prosperity.
3. ALL People MUST Be Treated Equally Under The Law.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:52:47 PM EDT
4. FBHO...Just sayin
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 8:56:23 PM EDT
ok, and FBHO, but thats more of a natural law.

My contention is that if any move the government makes (legislation, rule making etc.) passes the three statements above then it is likely good, violate any of them and it is bad.

Right?
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:05:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mgamber:

1. Liberty ALWAYS Trumps Tyrany
2. The People, NOT The Government Produces Wealth and Prosperity.
3. ALL People MUST Be Treated Equally Under The Law.



Replace tyrrany with safety.


Nanny-state = Tyrant state.

#3. Not so sure of, leaning NO.

Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:09:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Mattl:
Originally Posted By mgamber:

1. Liberty ALWAYS Trumps Tyrany
2. The People, NOT The Government Produces Wealth and Prosperity.
3. ALL People MUST Be Treated Equally Under The Law.



Replace tyrrany with safety.


Nanny-state = Tyrant state.

#3. Not so sure of, leaning NO.




If you are leaning NO on #3, you mind explaining why anyone should be treated differently under the law than anyone else? I can't see how that is ever a good thing.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:14:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mgamber:
Originally Posted By Mattl:
Originally Posted By mgamber:

1. Liberty ALWAYS Trumps Tyrany
2. The People, NOT The Government Produces Wealth and Prosperity.
3. ALL People MUST Be Treated Equally Under The Law.



Replace tyranny with safety.


Nanny-state = Tyrant state.

#3. Not so sure of, leaning NO.




If you are leaning NO on #3, you mind explaining why anyone should be treated differently under the law than anyone else? I can't see how that is ever a good thing.


Individuals are different, to treat everyone exactly alike (and have it mandated by law) could be considered racist. Also government mandates in practical application seldom work in the real world. Perhaps you should clarify where and how everyone will be treated the same.

Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:20:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Mattl:

Individuals are different, to treat everyone exactly alike (and have it mandated by law) could be considered racist. Also government mandates in practical application seldom work in the real world. Perhaps you should clarify where and how everyone will be treated the same.



Disagree completely, to treat anyone by laws that apply to people differently is just plain wrong. Thinking like yours is responsible for most of the ills foisted upon humanity by governments. There is not a single legitimate reason to present two people before the law and determine different applications of the law for any reason.

Name one.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:20:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mgamber:
Originally Posted By Mattl:
Originally Posted By mgamber:

1. Liberty ALWAYS Trumps Tyrany
2. The People, NOT The Government Produces Wealth and Prosperity.
3. ALL People MUST Be Treated Equally Under The Law.



Replace tyrrany with safety.


Nanny-state = Tyrant state.

#3. Not so sure of, leaning NO.




If you are leaning NO on #3, you mind explaining why anyone should be treated differently under the law than anyone else? I can't see how that is ever a good thing.

Non citizens should have no standing whatsoever under our law.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:21:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mgamber:
Originally Posted By Mattl:

Individuals are different, to treat everyone exactly alike (and have it mandated by law) could be considered racist. Also government mandates in practical application seldom work in the real world. Perhaps you should clarify where and how everyone will be treated the same.



Disagree completely, to treat anyone by laws that apply to people differently is just plain wrong. Thinking like yours is responsible for most of the ills foisted upon humanity by governments. There is not a single legitimate reason to present two people before the law and determine different applications of the law for any reason.

Name one.

Pregnant illegal aliens who by a happy accident of labor managed to bestow citizenship on their entire family.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:21:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:
Originally Posted By mgamber:
Originally Posted By Mattl:
Originally Posted By mgamber:

1. Liberty ALWAYS Trumps Tyrany
2. The People, NOT The Government Produces Wealth and Prosperity.
3. ALL People MUST Be Treated Equally Under The Law.



Replace tyranny with safety.


Nanny-state = Tyrant state.

#3. Not so sure of, leaning NO.




If you are leaning NO on #3, you mind explaining why anyone should be treated differently under the law than anyone else? I can't see how that is ever a good thing.


Individuals are different, to treat everyone exactly alike (and have it mandated by law) could be considered racist. Also government mandates in practical application seldom work in the real world. Perhaps you should clarify where and how everyone will be treated the same.

Please outline a situation where differential treatment of individuals would be a good thing, unless you are one of the individuals receiving favored treatment.



Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:25:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ziarifleman:

Originally Posted By mgamber:
Originally Posted By Mattl:
Originally Posted By mgamber:

1. Liberty ALWAYS Trumps Tyrany
2. The People, NOT The Government Produces Wealth and Prosperity.
3. ALL People MUST Be Treated Equally Under The Law.



Replace tyrrany with safety.


Nanny-state = Tyrant state.

#3. Not so sure of, leaning NO.




If you are leaning NO on #3, you mind explaining why anyone should be treated differently under the law than anyone else? I can't see how that is ever a good thing.

Non citizens should have no standing whatsoever under our law.


Crazy talk. I am not suggesting we give privileges to non-citizens, that is not what we are dealing with here. But to give you an example of why you are wrong;

Two men stand accused of Murder. One a citizen, one not.

Does the non-citizen just get taken out back and shot by a firing squad? Should the law not require a conviction? Should it not require a preponderance of evidence or at least beyond a reasonable doubt to convict? Do not both (under the law) deserve to be treated equally?
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:27:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mgamber:

Does the non-citizen just get taken out back and shot by a firing squad? Should the law not require a conviction? Should it not require a preponderance of evidence or at least beyond a reasonable doubt to convict? Do not both (under the law) deserve to be treated equally?

No, he gets his ass deported forthwith. We're not wasting time and money to prove his guilt or maintain his innocence.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:32:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ziarifleman:

Originally Posted By mgamber:
Originally Posted By Mattl:

Individuals are different, to treat everyone exactly alike (and have it mandated by law) could be considered racist. Also government mandates in practical application seldom work in the real world. Perhaps you should clarify where and how everyone will be treated the same.



Disagree completely, to treat anyone by laws that apply to people differently is just plain wrong. Thinking like yours is responsible for most of the ills foisted upon humanity by governments. There is not a single legitimate reason to present two people before the law and determine different applications of the law for any reason.

Name one.

Pregnant illegal aliens who by a happy accident of labor managed to bestow citizenship on their entire family.


Wrong. Law should be read as "Child born of persons in the US legally" Everyone should be provided the opportunity to be here equally by a set of rules that apply the same to anyone. Break the law by entering illegally and your progeny is not a citizen, applies to everyone.
The left has perverted that law from what it's original intent was.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:34:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ziarifleman:

Originally Posted By mgamber:

Does the non-citizen just get taken out back and shot by a firing squad? Should the law not require a conviction? Should it not require a preponderance of evidence or at least beyond a reasonable doubt to convict? Do not both (under the law) deserve to be treated equally?

No, he gets his ass deported forthwith. We're not wasting time and money to prove his guilt or maintain his innocence.


Hogwash. You would tell the victims families that you are not trying this possible murderer for killing their loved-one? Because he is an illegal? Are you nuts? Deport him if you find innocent. Lock him up if guilty.

Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:35:34 PM EDT
For the most part, sounds fairly solid.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:39:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mgamber:
Deport him if you find innocent. Lock him up if guilty.


Riiiiight. And then you're warehousing some POS murderer who doesn't even deserve the cush that is our prison system, and it's not only on the dime of the victim, but ever other citizen of this country as well.


Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:47:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ziarifleman:

Originally Posted By mgamber:
Deport him if you find innocent. Lock him up if guilty.


Riiiiight. And then you're warehousing some POS murderer who doesn't even deserve the cush that is our prison system, and it's not only on the dime of the victim, but ever other citizen of this country as well.



Not sure where you are coming from on this but you are making some crazy statements. Letting murderers go free? Please tell me you are not in law enforcement, judiciary, or even vote.

Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:50:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mgamber:
Originally Posted By ziarifleman:

Originally Posted By mgamber:
Deport him if you find innocent. Lock him up if guilty.


Riiiiight. And then you're warehousing some POS murderer who doesn't even deserve the cush that is our prison system, and it's not only on the dime of the victim, but ever other citizen of this country as well.



Not sure where you are coming from on this but you are making some crazy statements. Letting murderers go free? Please tell me you are not in law enforcement, judiciary, or even vote.


Foreign prisons are hardly free places.

And that's okay, I think your insane ideas of perpetuating a broken system of punishment is pretty nuts, too.
Link Posted: 9/15/2010 9:56:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ziarifleman:
Foreign prisons are hardly free places.

And that's okay, I think your insane ideas of perpetuating a broken system of punishment is pretty nuts, too.


You never said anything about foreign prisons, what you said was to just deport them before trying them. How does that put them in foreign prison?

Broken system of punishment? Way out of left field there dude. If you think trying people by a court of law and a jury is a broken system of punishment then you are very naive about the rest of the world and human history.

How, and this ought to be good, do you propose that an accused murderer foreign national (who did it by the way) gets put away in their home country?
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