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Posted: 4/17/2005 5:19:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2005 5:21:57 PM EDT by AvengeR15]

I bought this DVD series a while back based on a lot of recommendations from other ARFCOMMERS. I watched the first couple of episodes, and it really didn't do anything for me, so I shelved it. Last week, I finally watched a couple more episodes, and it really started to grow on me. I'll finish the rest this week, but I can already see why people were so disappointed that the series was cancelled.

Good points:

Several hot babes. Morena Baccarin (the Companion) is super hot, great body, lips, voice, everything. Jewel Staite is as cute as can be, although I was very dissapointed to see her getting nailed by the original mechanic in the flashback that the Captain had. She comes across as a good girl, and that flashback ruined her charm for me.

Better twists and character developments than normal. I loved the scene in the first episode when the captain kicked the guy into the engine intake after the guy threatened to hunt him down. Its pretty rare to see a 'good guy' character take care of business that way. Also, he displays a lot of cold-bloodedness throughout the series, befitting his mercenary life.

Plus, in the episode where the captain accidentally gets married to the village girl, her transformation midway through the episode took me completely by surprise.


Bad points:

Adam Baldwin is simply a terrible actor. His comedy is lousy, and he isn't quite as tough as his character ought to be. He needs to be replaced.

Lots of extremely predictable one-liners and gags. I absolutely hate it when a character is fiddling with a gun, then says some sort of dangerous one liner while racking the bolt or otherwise making noise with the weapon. That's one of the oldest plot gags around, and they use it in this show several times.

Also, I hate the doctor/crazy sister fugitive subplot. The doctor is an annoying pansy, and the girl playing his crazy sister is a bad actress, and her character utilizes every predictable crazy-person behavior imaginable.



OK, fans may now discuss the series and upcoming movie.

Link Posted: 4/17/2005 6:17:28 PM EDT
Watch it some more.

Trust me – Jayne and River will grow on ya.


"I was aiming for his head!"
Link Posted: 4/17/2005 6:20:12 PM EDT
Jane is one of the best parts of the series...and I love Adam Baldwin. (He's a Republican, btw)
Link Posted: 4/17/2005 6:21:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Skibane:
Watch it some more.

Trust me – Jayne and River will grow on ya.



I agree.

I can't wait for the movie.
Link Posted: 4/17/2005 6:40:25 PM EDT

That brings up another one of my irks about the show.

Half the time they use a modern era weapon on that show, it emits a laserlike buzzing sound. Shouldn't firearms be firearms, and scifi weapons be scifi weapons?


I'm glad to hear Adam Baldwin is a Republican, but all his jokes fall flat to me, and his character is very predictable.

Link Posted: 4/17/2005 7:02:33 PM EDT
I don't know, I think Kaylee's introduction in the engine room added to her believability.

The sister (River) isn't that bad an actress.. she does a wonderful east-side London accent on Badger.

NTM
Link Posted: 4/17/2005 7:02:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AvengeR15:
Half the time they use a modern era weapon on that show, it emits a laserlike buzzing sound. Shouldn't firearms be firearms, and scifi weapons be scifi weapons?



That's just the "smart-gun" technology powering up...
Link Posted: 4/18/2005 5:56:27 AM EDT

Anyone else like this show?

Link Posted: 4/18/2005 5:57:46 AM EDT
Yep, just waiting for the movie now...


ByteTheBullet (-:
Link Posted: 4/18/2005 6:00:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Moose:

Originally Posted By AvengeR15:
Half the time they use a modern era weapon on that show, it emits a laserlike buzzing sound. Shouldn't firearms be firearms, and scifi weapons be scifi weapons?



That's just the "smart-gun" technology powering up...



That's the capacitor charging up for the auto-reloader mechanism. It reduces the number of failure-to's and allows for fast reloading.
Link Posted: 4/18/2005 6:08:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Skibane:
Watch it some more.

Trust me – Jayne and River will grow on ya.

img156.echo.cx/img156/8115/aimingforhishead0eb.jpg
"I was aiming for his head!"



+1

Link Posted: 4/18/2005 7:48:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AvengeR15:

Jewel Staite is as cute as can be, although I was very dissapointed to see her getting nailed by the original mechanic in the flashback that the Captain had. She comes across as a good girl, and that flashback ruined her charm for me.



That's the only time you see her like that. Besides, it wasn't the guy that she was interested in, it was the machinery.



Adam Baldwin is simply a terrible actor. His comedy is lousy, and he isn't quite as tough as his character ought to be. He needs to be replaced.


Jayne's character grows on you. He doesn't think too hard and likes the direct approach to solutions.



Also, I hate the doctor/crazy sister fugitive subplot. The doctor is an annoying pansy, and the girl playing his crazy sister is a bad actress, and her character utilizes every predictable crazy-person behavior imaginable.


The Doc is out of place on Serenity, which brings complications and perspectives you wouldn't get from adding another ruffian to the crew. I was pretty impressed with River, considering all of the personality changes you can see in an episode. She's pretty good in Objects In Space, and nails Badger to a T in Shindig.
Link Posted: 4/18/2005 7:57:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2005 7:59:28 AM EDT by x5060]

Originally Posted By AvengeR15:

Half the time they use a modern era weapon on that show, it emits a laserlike buzzing sound. Shouldn't firearms be firearms, and scifi weapons be scifi weapons?



Joss (even though hes a liberal) went so thoroghly into that universe that he conceptualized how the guns would work in the future. His explination was that its a combination of modern day semi-automatics and metal storm technology. So that buzzing sound is the "Ignition source charging" or as someone else put it, charging a capaciter.

ETA: there are also normal weapons which he didnt put that sound effect in. (Such as zoes lever action)
Link Posted: 4/18/2005 8:00:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2005 8:07:50 AM EDT by kill-9]
I saw the series for the first time last month and was instantly hooked. It is such a refreshing change from the run-of-the-mill sci-fi show. For one thing, no aliens. For another, the Captain is a man of moral clarity and firm principles - a real hero in a Hollywood full of self-doubters and moral relativists. The chemistry among the cast is as good as it gets. I could go on...

I too am looking forward to the movie: "Serenity".

Link Posted: 4/18/2005 8:02:34 AM EDT
damn, i thought adam baldwin was funny as hell! i didn't like the capt, he was just too young and purty...i thought bruce campbell would have been a better choice. course, i think bruce campbell is a better choice for EVERYTHING...

and the studio forgot to axe me...
Link Posted: 4/18/2005 8:22:19 AM EDT
I too bought Firefly on a blind rec from ar15.com. Great purchase, and a lot better than 90% of the sci-fi trash that is currently spewed out of Hollywood these days.

Link Posted: 4/18/2005 8:30:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AvengeR15:
Several hot babes. Morena Baccarin (the Companion) is super hot, great body, lips, voice, everything. Jewel Staite is as cute as can be, although I was very dissapointed to see her getting nailed by the original mechanic in the flashback that the Captain had. She comes across as a good girl, and that flashback ruined her charm for me.



Now where the hell is the 'this thread is useless without pics' smiley......

I found it kinda.....odd.....but not entirely out of character. She's very inquisitve, smart but naive, and young enough to be in that 'experimentation' phase. I'm guessing also a little bit of 'sowing oats' and a touch of 'rebelling against parents' to boot. It also seems like she didn't get a lot of.....guidance in the ways of things from her elders either. Of course, if you REALLY want something interesting, go from that directly to her part in Wonderfalls (Jewel Staite in leather pants = wow!)....


Adam Baldwin is simply a terrible actor. His comedy is lousy, and he isn't quite as tough as his character ought to be. He needs to be replaced.


Oh man......I don't think his character would work nearly as well with another actor. If the Jayne character was really played 'as tough as' he ought to be, the character would never work. He's not supposed to be funny, or tough, or anything that your typical merc type would be. I mean, remember Jaynestown? That said it all right there.


Also, I hate the doctor/crazy sister fugitive subplot. The doctor is an annoying pansy, and the girl playing his crazy sister is a bad actress, and her character utilizes every predictable crazy-person behavior imaginable.


To me they are....well....exactly what one would expect, which is to say that they act as I would expect people in their situations to act. My only real complaint with the subplot was how little was done with it, as I have a feeling it's a LOT bigger than what we are led to believe.....
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 6:16:43 PM EDT

OK, I finally finished watching the whole series, plus rewatching the pilot episode, and I take back almost all the bad things I said and thought about Firefly. You guys were right, Jayne and River both do grow on you after a while, and the whole crew has a good chemistry together on screen.

I still don't like the doctor all that much, I'd like to see him get smacked around a little more by Jayne and Mal.

'War Stories' is probably the best episode of all. It's got action, humor, torture, and girl on girl kissing. It doesn't get any better than that.

I can't wait for the movie now, and I hope that helps revive the TV series as well.

Link Posted: 4/22/2005 6:20:07 PM EDT
Glad you liked it after all, now go forth and convert more to the cause.

btw, FOX retains series rights for 10 years, bastards.


ByteTheBullet (-:
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 8:36:53 PM EDT
I agree that Simon is the least-likeable member of the crew, but he's also one of the most admirable – Threw away a lucrative career, all his worldly posessions and became a felon, acting on nothing more than hunch that his sister was being abused. Based on my observations of human nature, that 'makes him special'.
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 9:20:46 PM EDT
Joss Wheedon should stick to vampires.

Babylon 5 please!
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 9:46:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2005 9:46:55 PM EDT by Airwolf]
He's doing "Wonder Woman" and a "Buffy" film and I *think* I saw something saying that he wasn't going to do anymore TV productions.

I doubt that we'll see "Firefly" back on the small screen and even so if done without Whedon, it would probably be shit.
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 10:08:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheAvatar9265ft:
Joss Wheedon should stick to vampires.

Babylon 5 please!


I'm glad he's not taking your advice. Firefly was a great series that ended too early. B5 went on way too long.
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 10:10:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Airwolf:
He's doing "Wonder Woman" and a "Buffy" film and I *think* I saw something saying that he wasn't going to do anymore TV productions.

I doubt that we'll see "Firefly" back on the small screen and even so if done without Whedon, it would probably be shit.


From what I read, the whole point of Serenity was to try to get Firefly back on TV with new episodes.
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 10:17:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2005 10:17:56 PM EDT by StormSurge]

Originally Posted By USPC40:

Originally Posted By Airwolf:
He's doing "Wonder Woman" and a "Buffy" film and I *think* I saw something saying that he wasn't going to do anymore TV productions.

I doubt that we'll see "Firefly" back on the small screen and even so if done without Whedon, it would probably be shit.


From what I read, the whole point of Serenity was to try to get Firefly back on TV with new episodes.



We can only hope...
Link Posted: 4/23/2005 6:57:15 AM EDT
Couple of great quotes:

While the captain is engaged in a fight to the death with a larger man:

Zoe: No, don't shoot, this is something the captain has to do for himself.

Captain: No it isn't!

Zoe: Oh.

[They all shoot him.]

Captain Reynolds: I just want you to scare him.

Jayne: Pain is scary.

Link Posted: 4/23/2005 8:10:32 AM EDT
I think the show is great, and continually recommend the series to others. I think my favorite episodes are "Hero of Canton", "War Stories", and "Objects in Space". I hope the movie is as good, and explains some of the back story on Book, and takes the River thread in to interesting places.
S/F
flyingrhino
Link Posted: 4/23/2005 10:00:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By flyingrhino:
I think the show is great, and continually recommend the series to others. I think my favorite episodes are "Hero of Canton", "War Stories", and "Objects in Space". I hope the movie is as good, and explains some of the back story on Book, and takes the River thread in to interesting places.
S/F
flyingrhino



I have the "Ballad of Jayne", ie "hero Of Canton" mp3 stored on my hard-drive that gets played for giggles now & again. Along with the 'net version of the gag reel mpg...the "Love Boat" opening credits always brings a smile.
The Easter Egg on the DVD set with Adam Baldwin singing it (while wearing Jayne's goofy hat his mom made him) is priceless.
Link Posted: 4/23/2005 12:40:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By StormSurge:

Originally Posted By USPC40:

Originally Posted By Airwolf:
He's doing "Wonder Woman" and a "Buffy" film and I *think* I saw something saying that he wasn't going to do anymore TV productions.

I doubt that we'll see "Firefly" back on the small screen and even so if done without Whedon, it would probably be shit.


From what I read, the whole point of Serenity was to try to get Firefly back on TV with new episodes.



We can only hope...



Yeah, except that FOX has the rights for the next 10yrs or so...and I have no faith that they would treat it the way it should be.

From what I hear the immediate plans are for a movie franchise, hopefully Serenity will be strong enough for that.
Link Posted: 4/23/2005 1:10:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/23/2005 1:11:09 PM EDT by Colonel_Kurtz]
Two things the movie needs.... Reavers and the black bounty hunter guy.
Link Posted: 4/23/2005 1:11:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Colonel_Kurtz:
Two things the movie needs Reavers and the black bounty hunter guy.



Oh, there will be Reavers, there will be.


ByteTheBullet (-:
Link Posted: 4/23/2005 1:11:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Colonel_Kurtz:
Two things the movie needs Reavers and the black bounty hunter guy.



Yes to both. The bounty hunter was awesome, and completely insane. He really creeped me out when he was talking to Kaylee in the engine room and suddenly asked her "have you ever been raped?"

Link Posted: 4/23/2005 1:15:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/23/2005 1:16:01 PM EDT by ByteTheBullet]

Originally Posted By Moose:

Originally Posted By StormSurge:

Originally Posted By USPC40:

Originally Posted By Airwolf:
He's doing "Wonder Woman" and a "Buffy" film and I *think* I saw something saying that he wasn't going to do anymore TV productions.

I doubt that we'll see "Firefly" back on the small screen and even so if done without Whedon, it would probably be shit.


From what I read, the whole point of Serenity was to try to get Firefly back on TV with new episodes.



We can only hope...



Yeah, except that FOX has the rights for the next 10yrs or so...and I have no faith that they would treat it the way it should be.




I think I said that earlier...nobody listens to me.


ByteTheBullet (-:
Link Posted: 4/23/2005 1:27:19 PM EDT


"My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle"
Link Posted: 4/23/2005 10:29:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Colonel_Kurtz:
Two things the movie needs.... Reavers and the black bounty hunter guy.



Yep, there will certainly be Reavers....

(Just messin' with ya, ByteTheBullet )
Link Posted: 4/25/2005 8:16:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AvengeR15:
The bounty hunter was awesome, and completely insane. He really creeped me out when he was talking to Kaylee in the engine room and suddenly asked her "have you ever been raped?"



You've touched on another unique aspect of this series: It delights in showing how truly evil crime can be.

Generally, TV (and most movies) give you a sanitized version that doesn't even come close to depicting the violence and cruelty of real-world crimes. Firefly doesn't pull any punches in this regard. IIRC, being raped to death, eaten, and having your skin sewn into the clothes of your captors isn't a subject that Captain Kirk ever had to deal with...
Link Posted: 4/25/2005 8:23:00 PM EDT
IIRC, being raped to death, eaten, and having your skin sewn into the clothes of your captors isn't a subject that Captain Kirk ever had to deal with...


Remember, that's only if you are lucky.
Link Posted: 4/26/2005 2:23:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Amicus:
IIRC, being raped to death, eaten, and having your skin sewn into the clothes of your captors isn't a subject that Captain Kirk ever had to deal with...


Remember, that's only if you are lucky.



If you're lucky, they'll do it in that order.

Link Posted: 4/26/2005 2:30:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RiffRandall:

Originally Posted By flyingrhino:
I think the show is great, and continually recommend the series to others. I think my favorite episodes are "Hero of Canton", "War Stories", and "Objects in Space". I hope the movie is as good, and explains some of the back story on Book, and takes the River thread in to interesting places.
S/F
flyingrhino



I have the "Ballad of Jayne", ie "hero Of Canton" mp3 stored on my hard-drive that gets played for giggles now & again. Along with the 'net version of the gag reel mpg...the "Love Boat" opening credits always brings a smile.
The Easter Egg on the DVD set with Adam Baldwin singing it (while wearing Jayne's goofy hat his mom made him) is priceless.



I couldn't get the Easter Egg to open.
Link Posted: 4/26/2005 2:55:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Brohawk:

Originally Posted By RiffRandall:


I have the "Ballad of Jayne", ie "hero Of Canton" mp3 stored on my hard-drive that gets played for giggles now & again. Along with the 'net version of the gag reel mpg...the "Love Boat" opening credits always brings a smile.
The Easter Egg on the DVD set with Adam Baldwin singing it (while wearing Jayne's goofy hat his mom made him) is priceless.



I couldn't get the Easter Egg to open.



Why would you want to? Jayne's for killing and his jokes, not his singing!
Link Posted: 4/26/2005 2:57:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hard-case:

To me they are....well....exactly what one would expect, which is to say that they act as I would expect people in their situations to act. My only real complaint with the subplot was how little was done with it, as I have a feeling it's a LOT bigger than what we are led to believe.....



Tow by two, Hands of Blue....

Yea, They barely touched this plot line. That's why I got so pissed when they ended the series.

Link Posted: 4/26/2005 5:10:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GIJoe:

Originally Posted By hard-case:

To me they are....well....exactly what one would expect, which is to say that they act as I would expect people in their situations to act. My only real complaint with the subplot was how little was done with it, as I have a feeling it's a LOT bigger than what we are led to believe.....



Tow by two, Hands of Blue....

Yea, They barely touched this plot line. That's why I got so pissed when they ended the series.




There was soooooooooooo much unexplored territory for a second season.

+1 on more of the Reavers, too.

And Inara was getting ready to leave, a hook for the next season...

Man, did Fox ever boot it with this one.
Link Posted: 4/26/2005 6:33:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/26/2005 6:34:13 PM EDT by REDHORSE]
They released the Movie trailer today.

Could be some major spoilers, so if you don't want to know...don't watch the trailer.

Serenity Trailer is pretty cool!

www.apple.com/trailers/universal/serenity/
Link Posted: 4/26/2005 6:49:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/26/2005 7:22:52 PM EDT by mcantu]
Let's make this the official "Favorite Firefly Quote" thread

Mal: If anyone starts nosing around, just shoot 'em
Zoe: Shoot them?
Mal: Politely
Link Posted: 4/27/2005 2:08:36 PM EDT

Did you guys know that Nathan Fillion was in Saving Private Ryan, as the 'wrong' Ryan? The one they first found with Ted Danson's character, who said:


"I've got to get home - I've got to get home right now!"




I thought that was kind of cool. Just wanted to share.



Link Posted: 4/27/2005 3:30:47 PM EDT
Mal: I do believe that woman's plannin' on shootin' me again.
Jayne: Well, here's a little idea I've been workin' on...how about we shoot her first?
Wash: Yeah, after all, it is her turn.

In the trailer, about 2/3 of the way through, there is a brief glimpse of a roaring zombielike critter/person. I assumed it was a reaver.

I seriously doubt that Early the bounty hunter will be back for the film. (There will be a ruthless black assasin it would seem, but he's probably not batshit crazy like Early.) I don't doubt that we'd see Early again in the series, if it ever progressed far enough...if you have the DVD, watch the end of Objects in Space. You'll see Early's ship taking off to parts unknown. I assumed it was toward some sort of beacon Early had.

Speaking of one of the scariest, strangest characters to grace a TV show:

Simon: Are you Alliance?
Jubal Early: A lion? I don't think of myself as a lion...but you might say I have a mighty roar.
Simon: I said "Alliance."

Early: Doesn't anyone care that I have a finely crafted weapon pointed at this boy's head?
Link Posted: 4/27/2005 3:59:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By USPC40:

From what I read, the whole point of Serenity was to try to get Firefly back on TV with new episodes.



They'd better hurry. Summer Glau (River) is already 24.

Odd that, I thought she was a lot younger than me. Weird.
Link Posted: 5/4/2005 9:54:17 PM EDT
Just finished disc one tonight (Episodes "Serenity" and "Train Bushwacked").

I'm hooked. I think the scripting for this show is awesome... so many great lines and dialogue.

I think Captain "Mal" Reynolds is frickin kewl as hell.
Jayen is kind of hit or miss. Sometimes he pulls off his lines... sometimes the fall flat.
Kaylee is hot.


I'm looing forward to seeing some reavers an seeing River start whooping some ass... I assume she will eventually since she sure as hell does in the movie preview.
Link Posted: 5/4/2005 10:07:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2005 10:10:56 PM EDT by Skibane]
As good an excuse as any for more pix...





(screen caps courtesy of Can't Take The Sky/Still-Flying.net)
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 3:17:10 AM EDT
"Da shiong bao jashing duh la doo tze."

(Phonetic rendering of the Chinese phrase Mal mutters when Jayne offers to trade Vera for Saffron)

Translation: "Explosive diarrhea of an elephant!"
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 8:13:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mcantu:
Let's make this the official "Favorite Firefly Quote" thread

Mal: If anyone starts nosing around, just shoot 'em
Zoe: Shoot them?
Mal: Politely



Here are a few:



Mal: "Well they tell you: never hit a man with a closed fist. But it is, on occasion, hilarious."



Mal: "And Kaylee, what the hell's goin' on in the engine room? Were there monkeys? Some terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?"

*********************************­****

In Bushwhacked, after discovering the booby trap:

Kaylee: "Looks like they've jerry-rigged it with a pressure catch. It's the only thing that'd work with all these spare parts. We could probably bypass that easy, we get to the DC line."
Mal: "You tell me right now, little Kaylee, you really think you can do this?"
Kaylee: "Sure. Yeah. I think so. 'Sides, if I mess up, not like you'll be able to yell at me."



Alliance Commander: "Seems odd you'd name your ship after a battle you were on the wrong side of."
Mal: "May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

*************************************­****

Shindig:

Harrow: "You have to finish it, lad. You have to finish it. For a man to lay beaten... and yet breathing? It makes him a coward."
Inara: "It's humiliation."
Mal: "Sure. It would be humiliating. Having to lie there while the better man refuses to spill your blood. Mercy is the mark of a great man. (lightly stabs Atherton with the sword) Guess I'm just a good man. (stabs him again) Well, I'm all right."

Harrow: "You didn't have to wound the man."
Mal: "Yeah, I know, it was just funny."

*************************************­****

Safe:

Zoe: "You sanguine about the kind of reception we're apt to receive on an Alliance ship, Cap'n?"
Mal: "Absolutely." (beat) "What's 'sanguine' mean?"
Zoe: " 'Sanguine'. Hopeful. Plus -- point of interest -- it also means 'bloody'."
Mal: "Well, that pretty much covers all the options, don't it?"

*************************************­****************

Our Mrs. Reynolds:

Bandit #1: "And I think maybe you're gonna give me a little one-on-one time with the missus."
(Husband) Jayne: "Oh, I think you might wanna reconsider that last part. See, I married me a powerful ugly creature."
(Wife) Mal: "How can you say that? How can you shame me in front of new people?"
(Husband) Jayne: "If I could make you purtier, I would."
(Wife) Mal: "You are not the man I met a year ago." (they suddenly draw their guns on the bandits, Mal slowly pulling his bonnet off)
Mal: "Now think real hard. You been bird-dogging this township a while now. They wouldn't mind a corpse of you. Now you can luxuriate in a nice jail cell, but if your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you."

*********************************­***********

War Stories:

Zoe: "Preacher, don't the Bible have some pretty specific things to say about killing?
Book: "Quite specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps."



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