User Panel
First, you need to understand that Cooper set out specs for a rifle (you listed them), and then Steyr went ahead and actually designed a rifle that met those specs. The problems you describe are due to Steyr's design and implementation, not because of Cooper's specs. Yes, Cooper signed off on the rifle, but understand that Steyr was the only company to step up and make a "Cooper" rifle, so it was going to be his only real chance to see his rifle realized commercially, and, let's face it, made him some money.
I agree with you about a number of issues, and when I first saw the rifle and handled it, I decided that I wouldn't buy it for $400, much less $2500, mostly due to the bolt and bolt handle, which is horrible. Note that the butterknife bolt handle is very much a European fashion on "fine" rifles, and I guess Steyr stuck it on there to help justify the price. Now, Steyr *did* eventually fix my biggest complaint when they released the Tactical model. Gone was the butterknife bolt, and instead, you got a nice round ball on a longer lever that made the bolt MUCH easier to work. If you haven't tried one of these, let me tell you, the difference is night and day. Otherwise, most of the problems you described (except the "bipod") are user-fixable. The heavy reticle IS better for exactly the reasons Cooper said, but remember, this was never supposed to be a target rifle that shoots little groups. I've shot 12" gongs at 200 yards with 100 accuracy with a Scout and the forward scope, and didn't find it difficult at all, and the rifle is really designed to shoot at larger targets than that anyway. I would replace the rings, and deal with the fact that the backup irons are worthless. -Troy |
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I like the concept, slightly less the Steyr application of the concept...and totally don't like the price.
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Troy's right. Cooper set the specs. Steyr designed the rifle. I recall reading somewhere that cooper wasn't 100% happy with their rendition. He wasn't impressed by the .223 Rem and .376 Steyr models either. In an interview on American Shooter, he demonstrated his personal Scout rifle and it certainly wasn't a Steyr (IIRC it was a modified Sako with an external bibod).
I got my Tactical Scout used for $1,200 without a scope. Installed a Kahles 3-9X42 and Talley rings. Accurate with my reloads, but recoil is pretty hard after firing an AR. It didn't take me long to get used to using the Ching sling. My main complaint is that the 10 rd mags are outrageously priced ($165?). I picked up a 10 rd. adapter for $29 on E-Bay. CDNN bought the remaining inventory of GSI imported rifles, accessories and mags when Steyr switched to Dynamit Nobel as their US distributor. IIRC Cooper packages were going for around $1700 when they had them. They sold all the mags for under $50. I missed out. |
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I agree with your dislike of the Steyr and your acquisition of better suited custom Scout rifles. I also think you are being too hard on Cooper. He was the advisor, but I think he was largely ignored by Steyr. Still, I don't know why he likes it so much. He loved the SSG too, even though he had a hammer to get the bolt open. I kid you not. The magazines kept cracking on the catch too. When he later wrote that Steyr was going to make a Scout I thought, "Whaaaat? Please not them. Anybody but them." Then when I first saw it, I knew it was not a true Scout to me. I always thought of a Scout rifle as primarily a "Combat Scout" first and a lightweight hunting rifle second. Anyway, I abandoned any thought of getting one when I saw that damn bolt knob. I knew Cooper never agreed to that POS. He put up with it though. Until your post tonight I never knew they later changed it. Remington's are notoriously bad as "Combat Scout" rifles. I have seen a few fail and have had problems with my own. They are just not meant for thousands of rounds to go down range in a week. Plus the factory bolt is all wrong. Custom built is the only way to go for a Scout rifle. |
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Ohh yaah, "snap shots." In 1982 I attended the Rifle course with my Remington Scout clone. We did alot of shooting on the pistol range. In fact we did most of it on the pistol range. Man, what I would have given for a smooth round bolt knob! Ya wanna double tap with a bolt action rifle? Anyway, if you want to know where modern Practical Rifle was born, it was on the pistol ranges of Gunsite. Thank god the AR15 replaced the Scout rifles combat role. |
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Seriously. |
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No, no, no, then it wouldn't be a *real* Scout rifle (meaning one that Cooper gets a kickback from). But then, "he's got his"! The whole Scout rifle rant made me realize that Cooper has either lost it mentally or has whored himself out to fund his retirement. Pity. And Steyr screwed the pooch on building the thing. Too much plastic and shitty castings. Look at the bolt and bolt face. Yikes. I'll pass. |
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I was just looking through some of my old gun rags and critiquing the ol' steyr, and tring to figure out where theyv went wrong.
Steyrs biggest mistake was making a $2500 general purpose rifle. The radically designed reciever adds a significant amount of machining, as does the fluted barrel. The bipod is anoother level of complexity we couldve done without. This is probably the biggest chunk of money right here. The main thing that makes the scout concept work is the LER scope. They did okay here... although i think they shouldve let the user pick the scope. The rings shouldve been quick release rings, as mentioned above, because when your scope craps out, you may n0ot have time to dig into your toolkit for that special spanner wrench. the buttplate spacers always seemed pretty flimsy to me too. The ability to accept 10 rnd magazines, and carry a spare in the buttstock was a stroke of genius. unfortunately the flimsy mags and thier scarcity was unpardonable for a general purpose weapon back up iron sight are a must on any rifle, but to make your iron sights out of plastic seems to be missing the point. also, by not mounting the front sight at the tip of the barrel, you lose a lot of sight radius, and accuracy suffers. of course the weapon has a cool, spacey look, which is the important thing, here, isn't it? The butterknife handle, was also a horrible idea. If i were building my own scout, i'd use a savarge action. The savage scout is very good, but it should accept larger capacity magazines, of an easily available type (FAL would be sweet!) and as long as we're hypothetical, it would carry a spare in the buttstock. The bipod i could do without, although a FAL type bipod could probably be made inexpenssively. heack, a minor stock redesign and the savage would be perfect for well under $1000 dollars. no wonder the steyr was a flop. |
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I can use my Ar as scout (gets .5 groups with good ammo)
And If I want an accurate rifle, $1500 will get you a 700 pss and some nice shit to go with it. |
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The Scout is a concept rifle that doesn't do anything well.
Been there, done that. |
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I have an old Rem 788 in .308 with a Leupold fixed 2.5. It shoots 1/4" five shot groups at 100 yds with Federal Match ammo (with a target scope).
I paid 175 new and less than 200 for the scope. I'll stick with it. Thanks. |
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While I have no experience with the Steyr Scout, I would change some things.
It should take some type of existing magazines, whether it be FAL, AK, AR, or other. Lever or slide(pump) action. These do not require that you relocate your hand to cycle the action. That's just the most obvious to me. That's Cooper's specs that gave us the bolt action. |
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I picked up a used Steyr Scout a few years back for $1200. They were the shit then and I really wanted it. After having it about 2 years, I sold it. I was using it as a deer rifle.
The Ching sling sucks. It is not adjustable in the field so if you have it adjusted as a shooting aid, it is probably too tight to sling over your back with a heavy jacket on. That's not good. If you want a Scout rig the way to go is a lever scout consisting of a Marlin lever gun, XO mount, and scout scope. This works out really well and is way cheaper than the Steyr. I'm glad I got the Steyr scout out of my system, but they are overpriced if you are buying new for sure. The lever scout is a wet dream of a hunting rifle though. |
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I sold mine and broke even, didn't pay anywhere near $2500... It was a good idea that way poorly implemented on Steyr's part. I thought the leather sling was really cheap.
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If I had to be dropped off in the middle of nowhere, not evening knowing what country I was in, much less what I would encounter, and had to use a rifle to survive, I'd want a scout.
It was NOT designed as a combat weapon. It's a tool that can do most jobs, prety well, most of the time. Engaging in firefights and sniping are not its forte. |
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The Steyr version was not, but properly designed Scouts are combat rifles and battle rifles of the highest order. They are also good for hunting game |
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You would have to be smoking crack to pay $2500 for that POS. Remington 700, end of story with enough money left over to buy an AR.
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Bolt actions make good sniper rifles.
Semi-autos make good combat rifles. Scout rifles make no sense at all. |
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M24, M40A3, SR25 all around the same cost as the SS, but all of them are far better rifles.
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So you would rather have that mongoloid than, say an ACOG equipped DSA SA58 lightweight carbine or a Springfield SOCOM 16? |
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Some of you are forgetting the Scout rifle is a lightweight meant to be carried, mile, after mile, after mile, hill after hill, after hill. Saying a different rifle is better at the range does not make it better in the field. I think the AR15 replaced it's combat role when the A2 came out. For the hunt and as a survival rifle it is still a winner. The man behind the rifle will determine who survives. Heavy rifles make for a tired man who will cover less ground and be less effective when it's time to finally shoot. |
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I had one for three months, bought it from a guy in a divorce for $900, took it out 4-5 times and the damned bipod/forearm fell off after shooting about 30 rds.? Ended up selling it for ~$1050.
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uh, its a BOLT ACTION .223!!!!!!!!!!
bolt actions shluld only be bought in a higher caliber thatn .22 unless they are for competition shooting .223 belongss in semi, and a bolt action one is NEVER worth >$500 |
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Lever and pump actions are NOT a good idea as general purpose. While you can learn to shoot them from prone, it never becomes easy or as fast as a bolt action, let alone a semi. |
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Cooper's concept would have been great. If it had been magazine fed. Wait a minute!
There have been 16" ARs around long befre there ever was a "scout" rifle and hunters in Africa have been using the same thing that Cooper described for years. As soon as Cooper started yapping about it, it suddenly became "tactical", if not "practical". "Scout" rifle...great for creeping around the African bush. No so great for creeping around the urban landscape, when there are so many other platforms out there. I've had the chance to lay my hands on the Styer Scout. All I can say is....$2500 bucks for that? Rip-Off. Further, Cooper is a crotchy, opinionated old windbag. Anyone that knows him will tell you so. If you don't do it HIS way, it's wrong. Yes, I am slightly biased against Cooper. That doesn't however, mean that I don't respect his contributions or respect him as a man. The old SOB is tough as nails |
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Uh, try not so show your ass. It's a bolt action .308 (or 7.62). |
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Uh, .308. NOT .223. |
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I got a M44, sixty bucks. Thats what I call an entertainment value!
I heard a story about Cooper having a ND with a Scout at a gunshow.... |
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Maybe on a $60 Marlin .22, but not a $2500 rifle designed to use these plastic shitbombs as actual BACK UP SIGHTS. I checked one out at a gun store, and thought it was definitely an overpriced POS. $650 tops, maybe, with the scope. Decent concept, but poor execution. |
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They had him on one of the "outdoors" channels the other day. It was stock footage of him showing off the new Steyr Scout...Anyway, they had a pepper popper set up about 25 yards away (obviously so they could get it in the shot) and he went on and on about how great the Scout was for personal defense and snap shots. Then he threw it to his shoulder and....missed the pepper popper altogether!!! |
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I built a $135 scout rifle that meets all those specs except it may be a little heavy (I haven't weighed it).
Mosin nagant $75. Gun show scratched up pistol scope w/rings $25. Gun show cheap bipod $15. Sling $15. Gun show junk box scope mount that I modified to go in place of the rear sight $5 Edit.. forgot to add the rifle had a synthetic stock when I got it. |
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