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Posted: 3/4/2010 6:15:06 AM EDT
Remember this thread?  


Time.com
March 3, 2010

The Rise And Fall Of A Female Captain Bligh

By Mark Thompson, Washington

Women are so common in the upper ranks of the U.S. military these days that it's no longer news when they break through another barrier. Unfortunately, the latest benchmark isn't one to brag about: being booted as captain of a billion-dollar warship for "cruelty and maltreatment" of her 400-member crew. According to the Navy Inspector General's report that triggered her removal — and the accounts of officers who served with her — Captain Holly Graf was the closest thing the U.S. Navy has to a female Capt. Bligh.

A Navy admiral stripped Graf of her command of the Japan-based guided missile cruiser U.S.S. Cowpens in January. The just-released IG report concludes that Graf "repeatedly verbally abused her crew and committed assault," and accuses her of using her position as commander of the Cowpens "for personal gain." But old Navy hands tell TIME that those charges, substantiated in the IG report, came about because of the poisonous atmosphere she created aboard her ship.

The case has attracted wide notice inside the Navy and on Navy blogs, where her removal has generated cheers from those who served with her since she graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy in 1985. While many denounced Graf, even greater anger seems directed at the Navy brass for promoting such an officer to positions of ever-increasing responsibility. The Navy declined to make Graf available for an interview.

While in command at sea — where a captain's word is law and she or he has the power to make or break careers — Graf swore like, well, a sailor. She "creates an environment of fear and hostility [and] frequently humiliates and belittles watch standers by screaming at them with profanities in front of the Combat Information Center and bridge watch teams," one crew member told the IG. According to 29 of 36 members of the crew questioned for the Navy's report, Graf repeatedly dropped F-bombs on them. "Take your goddamn attitude and shove it up your f–––––– ass and leave it there," she allegedly told an officer during a stressful maneuver aboard the 567-foot, 10,000-ton vessel.

Junior officers seeking her guidance were rebuffed. "This is one of the reasons I hate you," she allegedly told one seeking her help. When another officer visited her quarters to discuss an earlier heated discussion, her response was terse: "Get the f––- out of my stateroom." She allegedly told a male officer: "The only words I want to hear our of your mouth are 'Yes ma'am,' or 'You're correct ma'am.'" She put a "well-respected Master Chief" in "time out" — standing in the ship's key control room doing nothing — "in front of other watch standers of all ranks."

While most witness statements contained in the IG report didn't specify whether the person testifying was male or female, the IG asked at least two women officers whether or not they viewed Graf as a role model. One younger woman recalled going to Graf to seek her help. "Don't come to me with your problems," she said Graf responded. "You're a f–––––– Department Head." The officer also said that Graf once told her: "I can't express how mad you make me without getting violent."

A second female officer told the IG that Graf "is a terrible role model for women in the Navy," alleging that Graf had once told her and a fellow officer on the bridge: "You two are f–––––– unbelievable. I would fire you if I could but I can't."

The IG investigation, triggered last June by three anonymous complaints, noted that while conducting interviews into Graf's conduct at the Yokosuka Navy base outside Tokyo, four crew members provided "unsolicited written statements concerning what they perceived as abuse." While curses are not uncommon aboard Navy vessels, to have them repeatedly brandished like clubs against subordinates — especially in front of more junior crew members — is unusual. TIME obtained a copy of the IG report, from which names names had been deleted, under the Freedom of Information Act.

Graf told the IG she had "no recollection" of making such comments and "appeared incredulous at the accusations." She "repeatedly" emphasized her "very high standards for my crew" and "repeatedly" spoke of a "groupthink mentality" aboard her vessel. Graf said that "a small group of disgruntled officers in Cowpens wardroom were spreading rumors throughout the crew and convincing others that the command climate and [her] demeanor were far worse than they actually were." But she followed up with an e-mail. "Many times I raised my tone (and used swear words) to ensure they knew this times, it was no kidding," she wrote. "I also did it on other occasions to intentionally pressurize the situation."

The lone witness supporting Graf in the 50-page report was an "unsolicited e-mail" from a Navy colleague who had spent two weeks aboard Cowpens and said Graf may be "blunt, but clearly [her] intent is readiness." But the IG came down firmly on the side of her crew. "The evidence shows" that Graf violated Navy regulations "by demeaning, humiliating, publicly belittling and verbally assaulting... subordinates while in command of Cowpens," the report concluded. Her actions "exceeded the firm methods needed to succeed or even thrive" and her "harsh language and profanity were rarely followed with any instruction." Her repeated criticism of her officers, often in front of lower-ranking crew members, humiliated subordinates and corroded morale, "contrary to the best interests of the ship and the Navy." The IG also found she had failed to adequately train younger officers.

The report claims she grabbed several junior officers or sailors to get their attention or move them elsewhere — usually while in a heated discussion — and threw a wadded up piece of paper at one. It also says she asked junior officers to play piano at her personal Christmas party and to walk her dogs. These minor infractions might have been overlooked if committed by a more even-keeled commander, but in Graf's case they were used to substantiate the charges of "assault" and the use of her "office for personal gain" that led to her removal.

On one popular Navy blog there are 190 posts on Graf, nearly all negative and most from those who served with her. There were only four supportive posts, none apparently from anyone who had served with her at sea. "The only way that Capt. Graf could have failed at being CO of the Cowpens was to try to please all her sailors," one backer wrote. "Leadership is lonely and not for the faint-hearted."

But many officers who served with Graf over the years were not surprised by the IG's findings. Paul Coco, a 2002 Naval Academy graduate, served as a the gunnery officer under Graf aboard the destroyer U.S.S. Winston S. Churchill from 2002 to 2004. "She would throw coffee cups at officers — ceramic not foam," he recalls, "spit in one officer's face, throw binders and paperwork at people, slam doors." The hostile work environment led to a gallows humor among the crew. "We all would joke that after Bush liberated Iraq, he would next liberate Churchill," he says. That day finally came in January 2004, when Cmdr. Todd Leavitt arrived to replace Graf. "As soon as Cmdr. Leavitt said 'I relieve you' to Cmdr. Graf, the whole ship, at attention, roared in cheers."

"I'm more upset that the Navy let this go on so long," says Kirk Benson, who retired from the Navy as a commander three years ago after a 20-year career. Many complaints up the chain fell on "deaf ears," he says. "When I think of Holly Graf, even 12 years later, I shake," he says of serving under her when she was second-in-command on the destroyer U.S.S. Curtis Wilbur in 1997-98. "She was so intimidating even to me, a 6-foot-4 guy."

Nicole Waybright served as a junior officer for five years before leaving the Navy in 2001, including a year with Graf on the Wilbur in 1997-98. "She was a terrible ship handler," Waybright recalls. "I was 23 years old and I wanted to show, just by my actions, that women could do it, and just blend in like the gray doors with the rest of the gray ship," she said. "But she betrayed our gender." Waybright felt the Navy pushed women into command too quickly at that time, but said Graf's "sadistic cruelty" didn't help.

Shawn Smith is a retired Navy captain who, along with her husband, also a retired Navy captain, applauded their daughter's decision to join the Navy in 2007 after graduating from Notre Dame on a Navy ROTC scholarship. Erin Smith was "seriously considering" making the Navy a career, like her parents, until she was assigned to the Cowpens. "Her experiences with Capt. Graf definitely helped form her decision to do her time and leave the Navy," her mother says. "I was appalled that this happened, guilty — I think she went into the Navy because of us — and angry, because these kids did not deserve this kind of leadership."

Even though Graf comes from a Navy family — her sister and brother-in-law are both admirals, and her father was a captain — there appears to have been no "godfather" shielding her and greasing the skids for her promotion, Navy officers say. Prior to the IG probe's release, the Navy had tapped Graf for a top job at the Pentagon following her Cowpens command. Now she's being shuffled off to a Navy weapons lab outside the capital. "Her career," one admiral says, "is over."



Link
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 6:19:51 AM EDT
I remember this thread
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 6:21:45 AM EDT
I read it on the early bird this morning, I am somewhat mixed in my opinion though.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 6:22:06 AM EDT
CDR Salamander's blog postings were pretty much on the money.  
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 6:24:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By R0N:
I read it on the early bird this morning, I am somewhat mixed in my opinion though.


???

Link Posted: 3/4/2010 6:25:22 AM EDT
Sounds like it was a long time coming.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 6:26:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2010 6:27:29 AM EDT by Mclovin5-0]
I think I know where she gets her management style
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 6:26:43 AM EDT


If she was bad before just imagine how bad she'll be now.  She'll continue to abuse her juniors for as long as she's in a position of power over others.  She needs to be retired and sent home permanently.



 
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 6:28:24 AM EDT
I saw the attached picture. Are they sure she's a woman?
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 6:30:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 3rdpig:

If she was bad before just imagine how bad she'll be now.  She'll continue to abuse her juniors for as long as she's in a position of power over others.  She needs to be retired and sent home permanently.  


She was fired as the CO of a Naval vessel.
She'll never hold a command position again.

Link Posted: 3/4/2010 6:33:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 3rdpig:

If she was bad before just imagine how bad she'll be now.  She'll continue to abuse her juniors for as long as she's in a position of power over others.  She needs to be retired and sent home permanently.
 


She will not have so much as an E-1 under her at her next assignment. She will do no-nothing jobs until she voluntarily retires/quits, or she doesnt make promotion, and gets forced out. I knew a cunt or two like this when I was in, sad sad sad.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 6:34:21 AM EDT
That is an scorching report.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 6:34:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By KA3B:
Originally Posted By R0N:
I read it on the early bird this morning, I am somewhat mixed in my opinion though.


???



From service with, being embarked on several L-Platforms and reading that article I noticed there many of the things considered somewhat acceptable behavior in the Marines that the Navy considers unacceptable.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 6:35:51 AM EDT
I hope there is more than that.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 6:40:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2010 6:41:25 AM EDT by jmb_nova]
My understanding is that the IGs report was 'toned down' from what was really discovered during the investigation. And my understanding comes from a 3 star who is in the know.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 6:43:07 AM EDT



Originally Posted By GIJoe:


I hope there is more than that.


+1



Sounds like an average infantry platoon sergeant.



 
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 6:44:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bcw107:

Originally Posted By GIJoe:
I hope there is more than that.

+1

Sounds like an average infantry platoon sergeant.
 


My point exactly.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 6:45:27 AM EDT
Next job:  Dominatrix.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 6:46:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By bcw107:

Originally Posted By GIJoe:
I hope there is more than that.

+1

Sounds like an average infantry platoon sergeant.
 


My point exactly.


Not for the kinder, gentler Navy.

The people she was fucking with have tremendous connections.  It is surprising this took so long to happen.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 6:54:36 AM EDT



Originally Posted By limaxray:


Remember this thread?  




Time.com

March 3, 2010



The Rise And Fall Of A Female Captain Bligh



By Mark Thompson, Washington



Women are so common in the upper ranks of the U.S. military these days that it's no longer news when they break through another barrier. Unfortunately, the latest benchmark isn't one to brag about: being booted as captain of a billion-dollar warship for "cruelty and maltreatment" of her 400-member crew. According to the Navy Inspector General's report that triggered her removal — and the accounts of officers who served with her — Captain Holly Graf was the closest thing the U.S. Navy has to a female Capt. Bligh.



A Navy admiral stripped Graf of her command of the Japan-based guided missile cruiser U.S.S. Cowpens in January. The just-released IG report concludes that Graf "repeatedly verbally abused her crew and committed assault," and accuses her of using her position as commander of the Cowpens "for personal gain." But old Navy hands tell TIME that those charges, substantiated in the IG report, came about because of the poisonous atmosphere she created aboard her ship.



The case has attracted wide notice inside the Navy and on Navy blogs, where her removal has generated cheers from those who served with her since she graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy in 1985. While many denounced Graf, even greater anger seems directed at the Navy brass for promoting such an officer to positions of ever-increasing responsibility. The Navy declined to make Graf available for an interview.



While in command at sea — where a captain's word is law and she or he has the power to make or break careers — Graf swore like, well, a sailor. She "creates an environment of fear and hostility [and] frequently humiliates and belittles watch standers by screaming at them with profanities in front of the Combat Information Center and bridge watch teams," one crew member told the IG. According to 29 of 36 members of the crew questioned for the Navy's report, Graf repeatedly dropped F-bombs on them. "Take your goddamn attitude and shove it up your f–––––– ass and leave it there," she allegedly told an officer during a stressful maneuver aboard the 567-foot, 10,000-ton vessel.



Junior officers seeking her guidance were rebuffed. "This is one of the reasons I hate you," she allegedly told one seeking her help. When another officer visited her quarters to discuss an earlier heated discussion, her response was terse: "Get the f––- out of my stateroom." She allegedly told a male officer: "The only words I want to hear our of your mouth are 'Yes ma'am,' or 'You're correct ma'am.'" She put a "well-respected Master Chief" in "time out" — standing in the ship's key control room doing nothing — "in front of other watch standers of all ranks."



While most witness statements contained in the IG report didn't specify whether the person testifying was male or female, the IG asked at least two women officers whether or not they viewed Graf as a role model. One younger woman recalled going to Graf to seek her help. "Don't come to me with your problems," she said Graf responded. "You're a f–––––– Department Head." The officer also said that Graf once told her: "I can't express how mad you make me without getting violent."



A second female officer told the IG that Graf "is a terrible role model for women in the Navy," alleging that Graf had once told her and a fellow officer on the bridge: "You two are f–––––– unbelievable. I would fire you if I could but I can't."



The IG investigation, triggered last June by three anonymous complaints, noted that while conducting interviews into Graf's conduct at the Yokosuka Navy base outside Tokyo, four crew members provided "unsolicited written statements concerning what they perceived as abuse." While curses are not uncommon aboard Navy vessels, to have them repeatedly brandished like clubs against subordinates — especially in front of more junior crew members — is unusual. TIME obtained a copy of the IG report, from which names names had been deleted, under the Freedom of Information Act.



Graf told the IG she had "no recollection" of making such comments and "appeared incredulous at the accusations." She "repeatedly" emphasized her "very high standards for my crew" and "repeatedly" spoke of a "groupthink mentality" aboard her vessel. Graf said that "a small group of disgruntled officers in Cowpens wardroom were spreading rumors throughout the crew and convincing others that the command climate and [her] demeanor were far worse than they actually were." But she followed up with an e-mail. "Many times I raised my tone (and used swear words) to ensure they knew this times, it was no kidding," she wrote. "I also did it on other occasions to intentionally pressurize the situation."



The lone witness supporting Graf in the 50-page report was an "unsolicited e-mail" from a Navy colleague who had spent two weeks aboard Cowpens and said Graf may be "blunt, but clearly [her] intent is readiness." But the IG came down firmly on the side of her crew. "The evidence shows" that Graf violated Navy regulations "by demeaning, humiliating, publicly belittling and verbally assaulting... subordinates while in command of Cowpens," the report concluded. Her actions "exceeded the firm methods needed to succeed or even thrive" and her "harsh language and profanity were rarely followed with any instruction." Her repeated criticism of her officers, often in front of lower-ranking crew members, humiliated subordinates and corroded morale, "contrary to the best interests of the ship and the Navy." The IG also found she had failed to adequately train younger officers.



The report claims she grabbed several junior officers or sailors to get their attention or move them elsewhere — usually while in a heated discussion — and threw a wadded up piece of paper at one. It also says she asked junior officers to play piano at her personal Christmas party and to walk her dogs. These minor infractions might have been overlooked if committed by a more even-keeled commander, but in Graf's case they were used to substantiate the charges of "assault" and the use of her "office for personal gain" that led to her removal.



On one popular Navy blog there are 190 posts on Graf, nearly all negative and most from those who served with her. There were only four supportive posts, none apparently from anyone who had served with her at sea. "The only way that Capt. Graf could have failed at being CO of the Cowpens was to try to please all her sailors," one backer wrote. "Leadership is lonely and not for the faint-hearted."



But many officers who served with Graf over the years were not surprised by the IG's findings. Paul Coco, a 2002 Naval Academy graduate, served as a the gunnery officer under Graf aboard the destroyer U.S.S. Winston S. Churchill from 2002 to 2004. "She would throw coffee cups at officers — ceramic not foam," he recalls, "spit in one officer's face, throw binders and paperwork at people, slam doors." The hostile work environment led to a gallows humor among the crew. "We all would joke that after Bush liberated Iraq, he would next liberate Churchill," he says. That day finally came in January 2004, when Cmdr. Todd Leavitt arrived to replace Graf. "As soon as Cmdr. Leavitt said 'I relieve you' to Cmdr. Graf, the whole ship, at attention, roared in cheers."



"I'm more upset that the Navy let this go on so long," says Kirk Benson, who retired from the Navy as a commander three years ago after a 20-year career. Many complaints up the chain fell on "deaf ears," he says. "When I think of Holly Graf, even 12 years later, I shake," he says of serving under her when she was second-in-command on the destroyer U.S.S. Curtis Wilbur in 1997-98. "She was so intimidating even to me, a 6-foot-4 guy."



Nicole Waybright served as a junior officer for five years before leaving the Navy in 2001, including a year with Graf on the Wilbur in 1997-98. "She was a terrible ship handler," Waybright recalls. "I was 23 years old and I wanted to show, just by my actions, that women could do it, and just blend in like the gray doors with the rest of the gray ship," she said. "But she betrayed our gender." Waybright felt the Navy pushed women into command too quickly at that time, but said Graf's "sadistic cruelty" didn't help.



Shawn Smith is a retired Navy captain who, along with her husband, also a retired Navy captain, applauded their daughter's decision to join the Navy in 2007 after graduating from Notre Dame on a Navy ROTC scholarship. Erin Smith was "seriously considering" making the Navy a career, like her parents, until she was assigned to the Cowpens. "Her experiences with Capt. Graf definitely helped form her decision to do her time and leave the Navy," her mother says. "I was appalled that this happened, guilty — I think she went into the Navy because of us — and angry, because these kids did not deserve this kind of leadership."



Even though Graf comes from a Navy family — her sister and brother-in-law are both admirals, and her father was a captain — there appears to have been no "godfather" shielding her and greasing the skids for her promotion, Navy officers say. Prior to the IG probe's release, the Navy had tapped Graf for a top job at the Pentagon following her Cowpens command. Now she's being shuffled off to a Navy weapons lab outside the capital. "Her career," one admiral says, "is over."

Link
I'm not defending her, but if you were to just read the parts I highlighted, she sounds like an arfcommer.



I wonder what her screen name is?







 
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 6:56:56 AM EDT




She "repeatedly" emphasized her "very high standards for my crew" and "repeatedly" spoke of a "groupthink mentality" aboard her vessel. Graf said that "a small group of disgruntled officers in Cowpens wardroom were spreading rumors throughout the crew and convincing others that the command climate and [her] demeanor were far worse than they actually were."




That statement right there, all by itself, disqualifies her to be the Commanding Officer of ANY Navy vessel.



If there is "groupthink" mentality aboard a ship, it is either a direct reflection of the Captain, or else his/her job to fix it. It cannot be used as an excuse.



As for the rumors, in a cosmos as small as a Naval vessel, rumurs that are unfounded tend to die quickly, especially when they are about the demeanor of someone as visible and as influential as the Captain. If the rumurs were untrue, her behavior would have quickly dispelled them. Obviously, they were true enough to have stuck.



The fact that this bitch rose so high and ruined so many careers on the way simply makes me furious. She should be stripped of rank and dismissed without benefits. I have no mercy for someone who showed a deliberate pattern of abuse and incompetence for so long. Fuck her!
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:01:27 AM EDT




Originally Posted By R0N:



Originally Posted By bcw107:





Originally Posted By GIJoe:

I hope there is more than that.


+1



Sounds like an average infantry platoon sergeant.





My point exactly.




You would oth be wrong.



First off, the CO of a ship is not akin to the average infantry platoon sergeant. Second, while the average infantry platoon sergeant (and his counterparts among Navy Chiefs) undoubtly use colorful language when getting their point across, I never once in my years in uniform see ABUSE. I saw some very well-deserved ass-chewings, but never blatant ABUSE, and I NEVER saw anyone dressed down in front of their subordinates. THAT IS NOT DONE.



Just the one story where she put a CHIEF on time-out is beyond the pale. Telling a JO to ram his attitude up his ass, in front of enlisted personnel, is similar. Besides, a Captain doesn't NEED to tell them such a thing when it comes to attitude. A LEADER will change the attitude themselves.



This woman was and remains bilge filth.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:06:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By bcw107:

Originally Posted By GIJoe:
I hope there is more than that.

+1

Sounds like an average infantry platoon sergeant.
 


My point exactly.


Read the part about "...there was no period of instruction following the incidents."

Your SGT might chew your ass out for being an idiot, but you can be damn sure he's going to show you the right way afterwards.  Either by leading by example, an instructional period, peer mentoring or some other method.

If they just spazzed out and threw coffee mugs at you, then ignored you the rest of the time, what would you think?  You'd think that this fella's off his meds, he's psycho, he's uncontrollable and unpredictable.  A loose cannon, if you will.  Those things have always been a problem on ships.


Moreover, she was a CO.  The leadership model is a little different because she was the ultimate authority.  It's one thing if your division head is a dick.  There are other people you can go to if the problem is serious enough.  But if the captain's the problem, who you gonna call?
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:07:54 AM EDT
I would like to see a thread about positive stories of good female officers.  Or male, for that matter.

My cousin, as I recall, left the navy in the 80's after bumping up against a glass ceiling, possibly ship command.  She later became a project manager on the mars global surveyor, and passed away shortly before its launch.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:11:51 AM EDT
Socially promoted because she was female.....

Check out this blog.  192 comments and more coming all the time.  A lot from those who knew or served under her.  Looks like she could have also been charged with assault having her hands at the throat of at least one junior officer.  She also like to do the Sandy Koufax with coffee mugs.

Good reading.....

http://navycaptain-therealnavy.blogspot.com/2010/01/number-two-in-our-countdown-is-captain.html
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:16:44 AM EDT
She put a "well-respected Master Chief" in "time out" — standing in the ship's key control room doing nothing — "in front of other watch standers of all ranks."


That wasn't a very smart thing to do.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:18:05 AM EDT
I don't know anything about this woman, but Capt. Bligh was a good captain.  The book Mutiny on the Bounty paints him as a monster but the true story is he was a hero and a fine captain.



That is all.

Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:19:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By bcw107:

Originally Posted By GIJoe:
I hope there is more than that.

+1

Sounds like an average infantry platoon sergeant.


My point exactly.


You would oth be wrong.

First off, the CO of a ship is not akin to the average infantry platoon sergeant. Second, while the average infantry platoon sergeant (and his counterparts among Navy Chiefs) undoubtly use colorful language when getting their point across, I never once in my years in uniform see ABUSE. I saw some very well-deserved ass-chewings, but never blatant ABUSE, and I NEVER saw anyone dressed down in front of their subordinates. THAT IS NOT DONE.

Just the one story where she put a CHIEF on time-out is beyond the pale. Telling a JO to ram his attitude up his ass, in front of enlisted personnel, is similar. Besides, a Captain doesn't NEED to tell them such a thing when it comes to attitude. A LEADER will change the attitude themselves.

This woman was and remains bilge filth.


There is just a difference in Navy and Marines Corps (and Army) leadership philosophy.  

I have been on Navy ships and I have been in Marine Commands.  From what is in that article, I can see that she did cross some lines for the way the Navy does things.  However, I have seen Marine 05s and 06s and General Officers in command positions that no one would have batted an eye if they did what was in that report.

Remember guys like Van Ripper and Mathis were famous for firing guys left and right.  Van Ripper even fired his brother.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:19:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:21:39 AM EDT




Originally Posted By R0N:



There is just a difference in Navy and Marines Corps (and Army) leadership philosophy.



I have been on Navy ships and I have been in Marine Commands. From what is in that article, I can see that she did cross some lines for the way the Navy does things. However, I have seen Marine 05s and 06s and General Officers in command positions that no one would have batted an eye if they did what was in that report.



Then those officers were garbage, too.



Again, it's one thing to use colorful language and to justifiably blow a gasket, but it is NEVER acceptable to ABUSE YOUR TROOPS.



This bitch CHOKED a Junior Officer on the bridge, for cripe's sake!
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:23:36 AM EDT




Originally Posted By FMD:



She put a "well-respected Master Chief" in "time out" — standing in the ship's key control room doing nothing — "in front of other watch standers of all ranks."




That wasn't a very smart thing to do.


Yep.  We had a butter-bar give the company gunny a public tongue-lashing for distributing oranges before chow time.  Whatever respect he had from the men was instantly lost at that point.  He was the butt of our jokes for the rest of ATD.



I don't know if he was forcibly transferred or if he left the unit but I never saw him again after that.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:24:45 AM EDT
When I was in the navy, if you were an enlisted guy and spit in someone's face or threw a coffee mug at them, you would go to the brig.  Sounds like that cunt needs a dishonorable discharge and some Leavenworth, KS time.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:27:44 AM EDT
I see sexism is alive and well in the Navy.  Cmdr. Graf's obvious failing is that she was a woman.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:29:40 AM EDT




Originally Posted By GarandM1:



We had a butter-bar give the company gunny a public tongue-lashing for distributing oranges before chow time.



File that under "OOPS!"




Man, I only had it out with Chiefs twice. Once was a Senior who just wasn't happy with what I was asking him to do (and which he needed to do), and once with a Master Chief who thought he could beat up on an LT because he had given him instructions to do what he was supposed to do.



I was the LT. I didn't take kindly to it.




Other than those two times, I allowed my chiefs to rip me new assholes if I deserved them, which I always did.




I was very fortunate in that I led a long line of EXCELLENT Chiefs who, in turn, took good care of their clueless DIVO.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:31:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By bcw107:

Originally Posted By GIJoe:
I hope there is more than that.

+1

Sounds like an average infantry platoon sergeant.


My point exactly.


You would oth be wrong.

First off, the CO of a ship is not akin to the average infantry platoon sergeant. Second, while the average infantry platoon sergeant (and his counterparts among Navy Chiefs) undoubtly use colorful language when getting their point across, I never once in my years in uniform see ABUSE. I saw some very well-deserved ass-chewings, but never blatant ABUSE, and I NEVER saw anyone dressed down in front of their subordinates. THAT IS NOT DONE.

Just the one story where she put a CHIEF on time-out is beyond the pale. Telling a JO to ram his attitude up his ass, in front of enlisted personnel, is similar. Besides, a Captain doesn't NEED to tell them such a thing when it comes to attitude. A LEADER will change the attitude themselves.

This woman was and remains bilge filth.


Understand your point.  However, I think the reporter most likely missed key factors showing her unsuitability.  Cursing is a way of life, at least in my experience in the military as is tension and high emotion.  Tough it out.  I feel for young officers that may have had their careers affected by this worthless POS, but I would hazard a guess that this ship was well run in spite of her -lack of- competence.  

Role models are great for officers and enlisted people, but expecting it as illustrated in the article, is bull shit.  You find your own, no matter their rank.

I would also guess that the Chiefs on this boat saw the issues , binded together (especially after one of their own was punished) and did what they are paid to do.....keep the ship running and mission ready.

Like I said above, I hope there is more in the IG report.  My bitch is with the info provided, not to defend an affirmative action bust of a ship's captain.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:31:51 AM EDT




Originally Posted By larkinmusic:

I don't know anything about this woman, but Capt. Bligh was a good captain. The book Mutiny on the Bounty paints him as a monster but the true story is he was a hero and a fine captain.



That is all.




"And yet a good crew and officers, volunteers all, saw fit to mutiny against you. It has always been the intent of the Admiralty to appoint its Captains from among the ranks of gentlemen. It is our sad duty to conclude that, in this case, our intent was a failure...."




Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:34:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Then those officers were garbage, too.

Again, it's one thing to use colorful language and to justifiably blow a gasket, but it is NEVER acceptable to ABUSE YOUR TROOPS.

This bitch CHOKED a Junior Officer on the bridge, for cripe's sake!


I didn't see any mention of choking a JO in the article, it mentioned "The report claims she grabbed several junior officers or sailors to get their attention or move them elsewhere — usually while in a heated discussion — and threw a wadded up piece of paper at one"  

Choking would be assault, however it doesn't sound like that is what happened.

I guess it's all in the eyes of the beholder and how you came up in the service.  But nothing mentioned in that article is all that shocking or really a relievable offense.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:35:19 AM EDT
No bullshit on the Cowpens.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:35:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TWIRE:
I remember this thread


Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:35:38 AM EDT




Originally Posted By GIJoe:



Understand your point. However, I think the reporter most likely missed key factors showing her unsuitability. Cursing is a way of life, at least in my experience in the military as is tension and high emotion. Tough it out. I feel for young officers that may have had their careers affected by this worthless POS, but I would hazard a guess that this ship was well run in spite of her -lack of- competence.



Role models are great for officers and enlisted people, but expecting it as illustrated in the article, is bull shit. You find your own, no matter their rank.



I would also guess that the Chiefs on this boat saw the issues , binded together (especially after one of their own was punished) and did what they are paid to do.....keep the ship running and mission ready.



Like I said above, I hope there is more in the IG report. My bitch is with the info provided, not to defend an affirmative action bust of a ship's captain.


There is much more in the IG report.



I see your point now about the article, which seems to concentrate entirely upon the language she used. It wasn't so much the language as where she used it, against whom, in what manner, and in front of who else. Additionally, there are numerous cases of unwarranted verbal abuse, violation of procedures, abuse of her office, physical abuse, professional incompetance, international incidents, and so forth.



You're most likely right about the CHiefs, though. They undoubtedly kept that ship going in spite of the villanous bitch.

Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:36:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By GarandM1:

Originally Posted By FMD:
She put a "well-respected Master Chief" in "time out" — standing in the ship's key control room doing nothing — "in front of other watch standers of all ranks."


That wasn't a very smart thing to do.

Yep.  We had a butter-bar give the company gunny a public tongue-lashing for distributing oranges before chow time.  Whatever respect he had from the men was instantly lost at that point.  He was the butt of our jokes for the rest of ATD.

I don't know if he was forcibly transferred or if he left the unit but I never saw him again after that.


The smart thing to do would have been to ask the Gunny for an orange and shut the fuck up.  

Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:36:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By wildearp:
Next job:  Dominatrix.


Is she hot?
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:36:14 AM EDT




Originally Posted By R0N:



Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Then those officers were garbage, too.



Again, it's one thing to use colorful language and to justifiably blow a gasket, but it is NEVER acceptable to ABUSE YOUR TROOPS.



This bitch CHOKED a Junior Officer on the bridge, for cripe's sake!




I didn't see any mention of choking a JO in the article, it mentioned "The report claims she grabbed several junior officers or sailors to get their attention or move them elsewhere — usually while in a heated discussion — and threw a wadded up piece of paper at one"



Choking would be assault, however it doesn't sound like that is what happened.



I guess it's all in the eyes of the beholder and how you came up in the service. But nothing mentioned in that article is all that shocking or really a relievable offense.




Read the blog posted above. The TIME article (not surprisingly) missed the key points.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:36:23 AM EDT




Originally Posted By jmb_nova:

My understanding is that the IGs report was 'toned down' from what was really discovered during the investigation. And my understanding comes from a 3 star who is in the know.




That Time article is a bit short on some details that are apparently in the IG report.



While [redacted] was in CIC attempting to earn a qualification, Graf asked him, "What the fuck are you doing in Combat?" He stated several times that he sought Graf out to iron out their differences or to clarify a training point. According to his testimony she outright refused, once stating, "This is one of the reasons I hate you."



[Redacted] stated that it was common for him to be belittled by Graf while presenting charts at Cowpens's navigation briefs regarding the incompleteness or lack of thoroughness of the charts he presented. This was after both the CO and XO had reviewed his charts and signed their approval of his charts.



[redacted] on the Cowpens, stated that Graf commonly referred to him as a "stupid fucking idiot" in the Daily Operations/Intelligence Brief, in front of crewmembers of all ranks.



A redacted crewmember of Graf's previous Command, the USS Winston S. Churchill , stated when interviewed, that , in approximately January of 2003, upon informing Graf that weather was outside the limits required to recover a helo onboard, she responded by saying, "I thought you flew fucking all-weather aircraft. now fuck me to tears." He further stated that, after a time, he was not permitted to speak to Graf so he resorted to briefing the [redacted but undoubtedly the XO of the Churchil], on any flight schedule issues and then slipping the flight schedule under Graf's stateroom door for her review.


http://admiraltymaritimelaw.blogspot.com/2010/03/navy-inspector-generals-report-on-holly.html



Who approves paperwork and then mocks the presenter later in front of everybody?
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:36:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FMD:
She put a "well-respected Master Chief" in "time out" — standing in the ship's key control room doing nothing — "in front of other watch standers of all ranks."


That wasn't a very smart thing to do.


That's very likely what ended her career.  Don't ever fuck with the Chief's mess.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:38:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By wildearp:
Next job:  Dominatrix.


I think she was just PMS'ing.
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:38:16 AM EDT




Originally Posted By packinheavy:



The smart thing to do would have been to ask the Gunny for an orange and shut the fuck up.




Or maybe help pass them out while the Gunny took care of something more important.


Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:38:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By packinheavy:

The smart thing to do would have been to ask the Gunny for an orange and shut the fuck up.

Or maybe help pass them out while the Gunny took care of something more important.


That too.  
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:40:39 AM EDT




Originally Posted By joshki:



Originally Posted By FMD:



She put a "well-respected Master Chief" in "time out" — standing in the ship's key control room doing nothing — "in front of other watch standers of all ranks."




That wasn't a very smart thing to do.




That's very likely what ended her career. Don't ever fuck with the Chief's mess.


+1





Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:42:08 AM EDT




Originally Posted By packinheavy:



Originally Posted By GarandM1:





Originally Posted By FMD:



She put a "well-respected Master Chief" in "time out" — standing in the ship's key control room doing nothing — "in front of other watch standers of all ranks."




That wasn't a very smart thing to do.


Yep. We had a butter-bar give the company gunny a public tongue-lashing for distributing oranges before chow time. Whatever respect he had from the men was instantly lost at that point. He was the butt of our jokes for the rest of ATD.



I don't know if he was forcibly transferred or if he left the unit but I never saw him again after that.




The smart thing to do would have been to ask the Gunny for an orange and shut the fuck up.






He was Hispanic and had a last name ending in "-jo", and as a result his informal name among the troops for the rest of the training was "Lt. Pendejo".  
Link Posted: 3/4/2010 7:43:06 AM EDT



Originally Posted By Zaphod:





Originally Posted By larkinmusic:

I don't know anything about this woman, but Capt. Bligh was a good captain. The book Mutiny on the Bounty paints him as a monster but the true story is he was a hero and a fine captain.



That is all.




"And yet a good crew and officers, volunteers all, saw fit to mutiny against you. It has always been the intent of the Admiralty to appoint its Captains from among the ranks of gentlemen. It is our sad duty to conclude that, in this case, our intent was a failure...."













In October 1790, Bligh was honourably acquitted at the court-martial inquiring into the loss of the Bounty.





 
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