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Posted: 1/19/2008 2:37:55 PM EST
Put a fork in it.

I used to believe that there were differences between the (R) and the (D) parties, I see those differences becoming more and more vague.

McCain, Huckabee...Romney, don't represent conservative values that the (R) is supposed to be known for, and one of these guys will win.

Oh well, time for another drink.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:39:33 PM EST
So how are they the same as Obama and Clinton?

Please elaborate

Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:41:51 PM EST
Today's radical conservative would match up well with the politics of the late Hubert H. Humphrey. Didn't take the left very long once they got control of education and the media.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:42:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:
So how are they the same as Obama and Clinton?

Please elaborate



Christ.

Do some research.

SG

Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:42:19 PM EST
Yes, let's drink to the "good ole days" as they are far gone, as is the Republican party.

I plan on getting drunk on election day and staying that way for 4 years, maybe 8.......

....unless a miracle happens.

Bill
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:43:25 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:43:36 PM EST
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU PUT PARTY LOYALTY AHEAD OF PRINCIPLE.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:45:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2008 2:46:04 PM EST by Neotopia]

Originally Posted By shotar:
Things change. The Republicans used to be the liberal progressive party. All those fellows turning fire hoses on civil rights protestors in the 60s were not Republican.


Now it's a party of liberal lites and the Christian Socialists...
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:45:55 PM EST
I still ask.

How close are Romney and Clinton on the issues?

Give me SIX issues on which those two are in LOCK STEP

Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:46:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By Neotopia:

Originally Posted By shotar:
Things change. The Republicans used to be the liberal progressive party. All those fellows turning fire hoses on civil rights protestors in the 60s were not Republican.


Now it's a party of liberal lites and the Christian Socialists...


Just what do you mean by "Christian Socialists"?

Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:46:58 PM EST
What's really funny is.....on DU the liberials are saying the same thing about the Democrats.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:47:07 PM EST
Look at the alternatives....


RP on the surface seems like a great canidate.....That is if you took away the fact he wants to cut our military so severely, and pretends other countries are all full of love towards the US.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:47:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:

Originally Posted By Neotopia:

Originally Posted By shotar:
Things change. The Republicans used to be the liberal progressive party. All those fellows turning fire hoses on civil rights protestors in the 60s were not Republican.


Now it's a party of liberal lites and the Christian Socialists...


Just what do you mean by "Christian Socialists"?



Huckabee
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:47:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:
So how are they the same as Obama and Clinton?

Please elaborate



They are not the same, but its getting harder and harder to see the difference.

Romney - supports gun control (AWB II), very vague on health care... but required everyone to have health insurance in MA by employers. Flip floppy on abortion and gay rights.

McCain - wish washy on gun control, is 'pro-amnesty', against tax cuts.

Huckabee - Socialist in religious clothing. Didn't do much of anything for the 2nd amendment in AR, raised taxes, was pro illegals.


Sure, there are differences, but its becoming narrower and narrower.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:48:36 PM EST
I'm not ready to give up.

If thompson can Pick up a strong 3rd or better he's still in it.

Paul has second in Nevada which gives me hope, a decent 5th or better in SC is a boost as well.

Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:48:47 PM EST
I sometimes ask myself, WTF happened after Ronald Reagan?
If you ask me Bush had a major hand in destroying the "R" name.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:48:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By Shockergd:
Look at the alternatives....


RP on the surface seems like a great canidate.....That is if you took away the fact he wants to cut our military so severely, and pretends other countries are all full of love towards the US.


He doesn't believe that and never insinuated that. If you're going to just flame people at least read a thing or two first.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:49:19 PM EST
conservative Keynesians and liberal Keynesians.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:49:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By Michael_B:
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU PUT PARTY LOYALTY AHEAD OF PRINCIPLE.


+1
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:49:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:
I sometimes ask myself, WTF happened after Ronald Reagan?
If you ask me Bush had a major hand in destroying the "R" name.


Both Bushes did, imo, but this one did particularly well at it.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:49:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By Michael_B:
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU PUT PARTY LOYALTY AHEAD OF PRINCIPLE.


Yeah, Ron Paul could still save us all. You are special aren't you?
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:49:48 PM EST
The republicans have been in full retreat since Bush began to shape the issues. We used to have the House, Senate and Presidency. The political missteps of Bush have been staggering to the party.

The democrats will have a long time in power, before people realize they are no better than the republicans, and the pendulum will swing again.

Go Fred 08
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:50:16 PM EST
Well if you feel that way.

I still think ANY of the Republicans are WAY BETTER than any of the Democrats.

Maybe I'm stupid.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:50:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2008 2:50:46 PM EST by Michael_B]

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL:

Originally Posted By Michael_B:
THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU PUT PARTY LOYALTY AHEAD OF PRINCIPLE.


Yeah, Ron Paul could still save us all. You are special aren't you?


Jesus Christ, my post had nothing to do with Ron Paul. Try looking at the bigger picture.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:50:27 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:51:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:
I still ask.

How close are Romney and Clinton on the issues?

Give me SIX issues on which those two are in LOCK STEP



I'll give you one for sure.

Both would sign AWB II.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:51:46 PM EST
Both parties shift left a little bit more each election.


I just want someone to run the country without creating a bunch of debt, and sticks to the Constitutional mandate of how our country is supposed to be ran. I dont see why everyone thinks they need to change everything to get elected.


Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:52:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:
I sometimes ask myself, WTF happened after Ronald Reagan?
If you ask me Bush had a major hand in destroying the "R" name.


Which he did.

Bush is not a conservative by far, especially after 04.

The party 'stood by its man' as he destroyed it.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:52:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2008 2:53:22 PM EST by shastacles]

Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:

Originally Posted By CRC:
I still ask.

How close are Romney and Clinton on the issues?

Give me SIX issues on which those two are in LOCK STEP



I'll give you one for sure.

Both would sign AWB II.


Nation Building, Intervention in ME...

Edit: Big spending, welfare state, social programs, social health care, big government. Is six all you want?
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:52:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:
I still ask.

How close are Romney and Clinton on the issues?

Give me SIX issues on which those two are in LOCK STEP



Both are very much anti second ammendment, romney signed a health care bill in MA while govenor that made hitlery get an erection so hard a cat couldnt scratch it. Both are pro infanticide, not sure about romneys tax stance will govenor of MA though.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:53:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
What's really funny is.....on DU the liberials are saying the same thing about the Democrats.
Thats interesting and a good indicator that the core values of each party are succumbing to the will of the majority
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:53:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:
Well if you feel that way.

I still think ANY of the Republicans are WAY BETTER than any of the Democrats.

Maybe I'm stupid.


I plan on voting for whoever the (R) candidate is.

Even if its the one that will put this site's being in limbo.

But, I will not support the party as a whole, they can go fuck themselves.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:54:25 PM EST
What is happening if you look really closely, Americans are making a clear statement. They are not interested in conservatism, they want someone else to do the hard things and take care of them. Retirees and others are bellied up to the table and want a pull on the .GOV teat. Those that are leaches are starting to out number the producers, when that happens this country will not be the same place it is now.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:55:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL:
What is happening if you look really closely, Americans are making a clear statement. They are not interested in conservatism, they want someone else to do the hard things and take care of them. Retirees and others are bellied up to the table and want a pull on the .GOV teat. Those that are leaches are starting to out number the producers, when that happens this country will not be the same place it is now.


Baby Boomers FTW.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:56:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL:
What is happening if you look really closely, Americans are making a clear statement. They are not interested in conservatism, they want someone else to do the hard things and take care of them. Retirees and others are bellied up to the table and want a pull on the .GOV teat. Those that are leaches are starting to out number the producers, when that happens this country will not be the same place it is now.


And so the welfare state begins.

Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:56:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL:
What is happening if you look really closely, Americans are making a clear statement. They are not interested in conservatism, they want someone else to do the hard things and take care of them. Retirees and others are bellied up to the table and want a pull on the .GOV teat. Those that are leaches are starting to out number the producers, when that happens this country will not be the same place it is now.


I disagree.

What's happening if you look really closely is the media are telling people who they should vote for and that's how they're voting.

These results have nothing to do with issues.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:57:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL:
What is happening if you look really closely, Americans are making a clear statement. They are not interested in conservatism, they want someone else to do the hard things and take care of them. Retirees and others are bellied up to the table and want a pull on the .GOV teat. Those that are leaches are starting to out number the producers, when that happens this country will not be the same place it is now.


And so the welfare state begins.



Begins?
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:57:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By Rosenrot:
I sometimes ask myself, WTF happened after Ronald Reagan?
If you ask me Bush had a major hand in destroying the "R" name.


The GOP had it's turn at the trough in '94 and the party changed...

For 40 years the GOP hailed itself as the "small government" party then the intoxicating "power of the purse" changed them forever.

The libertarian wing of the GOP got pushed into the corner and "conservatives" forgot how to think.

It's sad but true.

I took the "Rush is Right" bumper sticker off of my truck in the Summer of '94.

The GOP needs help, but the young "conservatives" have no clue what the party once stood for.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:58:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By Shockergd:
Look at the alternatives....


RP on the surface seems like a great canidate.....That is if you took away the fact he wants to cut our military so severely, and pretends other countries are all full of love towards the US.

That is.... if you look away from the fact that the WTC is gone, and the CN tower, Big Ben, Eiffel Tower and the Kremlin are still standing, quite possibly at least in part because those countries didn't insist in meddling in nations halfway around the world with cultures predisposed to hostility to the West....
~
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:58:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Well if you feel that way.

I still think ANY of the Republicans are WAY BETTER than any of the Democrats.

Maybe I'm stupid.


I plan on voting for whoever the (R) candidate is.

Even if its the one that will put this site's being in limbo.

But, I will not support the party as a whole, they can go fuck themselves.



Dude, that is exactly what the rinos are counting on. I am not saying dont vote, or vote third party, but you can still vote for conservatives for congress and the senate, and write in who you want for potus.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:58:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
What's really funny is.....on DU the liberials are saying the same thing about the Democrats.


And this is the nexus of what is driving America to the left. It has been the left's most effective weapon. Hark en back to the old bumper sticker, HATE IS NOT A FAMILY VALUE. Bullshit, hatred and envy have always been the driving force of the American left.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:58:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL:
What is happening if you look really closely, Americans are making a clear statement. They are not interested in conservatism, they want someone else to do the hard things and take care of them. Retirees and others are bellied up to the table and want a pull on the .GOV teat. Those that are leaches are starting to out number the producers, when that happens this country will not be the same place it is now.



Part of that is because they feel they have paid taxes their entire life, and want something in return. Right or wrong that is their justification.


Id rather see the billions we spend on taking care of illegals every year go to retiree's who've paid their taxes their entire lives but YMMV... Or SS could have never been created in the first place and then all these people could have put their money into the economy/investments all these years but its a bit late for that...
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:59:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By Neotopia:

Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL:
What is happening if you look really closely, Americans are making a clear statement. They are not interested in conservatism, they want someone else to do the hard things and take care of them. Retirees and others are bellied up to the table and want a pull on the .GOV teat. Those that are leaches are starting to out number the producers, when that happens this country will not be the same place it is now.


And so the welfare state begins.



Begins?


Whoever wins in Nov 08, will start the ball rolling quicker than I have seen in my lifetime.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 3:00:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2008 3:01:06 PM EST by orangelo]

Originally Posted By CRC:
I still ask.

How close are Romney and Clinton on the issues?

Give me SIX issues on which those two are in LOCK STEP


"I'll ban assault weapons for the children!!!!" - Check.
"We need socialized healthcare!!!!" - Check.
"Illegal aliens just do the jobs and voting that American's won't do!!!!" - Check.
"TAX TAX TAX TAX TAX" - Check.
"We will take things away from you for the common good (like your money and your evil black rifles)." - Check.
"I'm a rich northeastern liberal" - Check.

Go away Mr Robinson
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 3:00:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By colklink:

Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Well if you feel that way.

I still think ANY of the Republicans are WAY BETTER than any of the Democrats.

Maybe I'm stupid.


I plan on voting for whoever the (R) candidate is.

Even if its the one that will put this site's being in limbo.

But, I will not support the party as a whole, they can go fuck themselves.



Dude, that is exactly what the rinos are counting on. I am not saying dont vote, or vote third party, but you can still vote for conservatives for congress and the senate, and write in who you want for potus.


I am from NJ.

Even my republican town isn't even close to being 'conservative'.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 3:03:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By Belmont31R:
Both parties shift left a little bit more each election.


I just want someone to run the country without creating a bunch of debt, and sticks to the Constitutional mandate of how our country is supposed to be ran. I dont see why everyone thinks they need to change everything to get elected.




For starters they haven't even remotely done what you are suggesting in over 100 years
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 3:04:09 PM EST
Has anyone been watching Fred on CNN?
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 3:05:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:

Originally Posted By Neotopia:

Originally Posted By shotar:
Things change. The Republicans used to be the liberal progressive party. All those fellows turning fire hoses on civil rights protestors in the 60s were not Republican.


Now it's a party of liberal lites and the Christian Socialists...


Just what do you mean by "Christian Socialists"?



Social Gospelites. AKA, compassionate conservatism. I almost threw up the first time I heard the President use that term.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 3:06:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:
I still ask.

How close are Romney and Clinton on the issues?

Give me SIX issues on which those two are in LOCK STEP



How about abortion, gun control and socialized medicine?
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 3:09:36 PM EST
They are not in lock step on abortion.

Sorry

Link Posted: 1/19/2008 3:09:46 PM EST
Maybe in the future the pendulum will swing back to true Conservatism, but by then it will probably be too late.
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