Quoted: is it happening again? mcole
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Odd you say this. Have a Lebanese aquaintence, tho not Muslim, indictate to me the oddest evidentiary chain. Bush is a member of Skull & Bones, a Masonic order. The Masons are Templars, Templars are Crusaders and this is direct continuation of the Crusader Wars. Bush is fulfilling the objectives of a plan, which initiated with the establishment of Israel.
I started to explain to him why I thought this was unlikely (read: BS), but he cut in. "No, this is all shit, you see. Utter shit. But it does not matter what you and I beleive, there are a great many that think this." He went on to relate his recent dealings in the middle east, and how common a belief something along this line of reasoning is, even amongst fairly cosmopolitan people. How pathetic, I thought, Arabs must be awful myoptic. Then we discussed all the dumb shit Americans swallow.
But people want to find simplified reasons for historical events. Rarely does man-on-the-street mainstream history take into account much breadth of causation. There were many causes for the Crusader Wars, like all wars it didnt happen in a vaccum. IM sure having thier asses kicked for a couple hundred years didnt endear the Moors to the Franks, but it wasnt just about vengeful response - just mostly so. But they couldnt keep their anger focused. Half the time the Crusaders were busy futzing themselves, like sacking Constantinople - as were the Muslims,Abbasid and Buwayhids, and a couple of other ids Ive gotten out of my mind. Luckily the Mongols came along and got them both back on track.
The Crusaders emerged at just the right time to take advantage of the weakness in the Holy Land. Just so happens this coincided with the need of the church to get some focus elsewhere (the Popes must have had some bad polling numbers) and battle down some heretical movements. Eventually the reformers in the Church won out, but like most winners, it was disappointing once you got the trophy.
But it wasnt just about smoke and mirrors. Outremer was a great place to ship off all those 2nd, 3rd and 4th noble sons. There were serious economic and other societal pressures as well. There was lots of bling-bling available in China, but the wholesale deals were to be had further East. Kinda surprised everyone how far east it was.
Interested in what view was propogated in your Catholic classes as most of the history I was taught gave it pretty good to both sides. Then again I was taught by Jesuits - they have contempt for everyone.
This conquering thing - thats how it was done back then, and, to a certain extent today. If you could ride roughshod over someone, you did. Didnt take much provocation as it was nearly the sole avenue for economic enhancement.
If you're ticked the Crusaders got a bad rap as merely unprovoked conquerers, I think you're right and wrong. They went to the Holy Land to kill people and break things. To subjegate peoples opposed to them and free the Christian population as well. But mostly it was loot. If you doubt that, review the fate of a number of Christian kingdoms who were cashiered for two reasons: Apparent weakness and within the path of a Crusader Army. At least all this brought advancements in technology to Europe, so that by the mid 15th cent, Christian Balkan engineers, under Turkish pay, could end the Byzantine empire. What you get for fixating on the wrong enemies.
Luck
Alac