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Posted: 12/31/2011 1:23:30 PM EDT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2012

The bill that permits the indefinite detention of American citizens (with the option of due process) is now law. Today our great leader signed this bill into law. In light of this, I feel significantly safer
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 1:26:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2011 1:31:04 PM EDT by MIDGAPATRIOT]
Fuck our out of control Congress and fuck BHO!!!!



Edit to add: Who the fuck am I kidding, every bit of this shit is our fucking fault. The blame for this lays at the feet of the American people.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 1:27:19 PM EDT
Sweet! Now Janet nipplecameltoe can lock anybody up she wants.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 1:28:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2011 1:29:01 PM EDT by Cypher15]

Originally Posted By Anteater1717:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2012

The bill that permits the indefinite detention of American citizens (with the option of due process) is now law. Today our great leader signed this bill into law. In light of this, I feel significantly safer
its a bad bill to begin with but get real, there are specific clauses that make it not pertain to US citizens or resident aliens
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 1:28:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MIDGAPATRIOT:
Fuck our out of control Congress and fuck BHO!!!!



First Post and all.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 1:28:38 PM EDT
But but but it exclude American citizens!
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 1:28:47 PM EDT


Despite my current cynicism over the way our SCOTUS tends to rule, I do believe this particular piece of legislation will be thrown out eventually.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 1:29:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rem700PSS:
But but but it exclude American citizens!

it doesnt.. its made clear about 4-5 times or more in the bill
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 1:30:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cypher15:

Originally Posted By Anteater1717:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2012

The bill that permits the indefinite detention of American citizens (with the option of due process) is now law. Today our great leader signed this bill into law. In light of this, I feel significantly safer
its a bad bill to begin with but get real, there are specific clauses that make it not pertain to US citizens or resident aliens


Read the Wikipedia article I posted; It gives a brief and objective overview of the law. It should help clear up any possible misconceptions.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 1:30:45 PM EDT
So what happens now?
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 1:32:23 PM EDT
I'm sorry guys but without the guarantee of due process of law as mandated in the Constitution, which this law violates maliciously, a lot of people are not going to be willing to be taken into custody. This law will put the lives of law enforcement at needless risk.

Stupidity should be painful... but in this instance, it'll be the guys in the field getting the pain vs. the idiots that passed this unConstitutional bullshit.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 1:32:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2011 1:33:37 PM EDT by Cypher15]

Originally Posted By Anteater1717:
Originally Posted By Cypher15:

Originally Posted By Anteater1717:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2012

The bill that permits the indefinite detention of American citizens (with the option of due process) is now law. Today our great leader signed this bill into law. In light of this, I feel significantly safer
its a bad bill to begin with but get real, there are specific clauses that make it not pertain to US citizens or resident aliens


Read the Wikipedia article I posted; It gives a brief and objective overview of the law. It should help clear up any possible misconceptions.

ive read the text of the bill, a couple times. it has the clause "this does not apply to us citizens or resident aliens etc etc" under each specific section.

feinstein even proposed (successfully) amendments to basically double up on that.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 1:35:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Nightfalcon007:
So what happens now?


We pretend that we still live in a free country, because we earnestly believe everyone will use unlimited power in a benevolent fashion.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 1:39:04 PM EDT
The only candidate on the horizon that will even think about repealing this law? ? ? ? ?

That's right: Ron Paul

Remember, it took the Dims and Repugs to vote this "slow martial law" act into being. Oh, and Posse Comitatis, Due Process, etc., just went bye-bye.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 1:39:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Nightfalcon007:
So what happens now?


Everyone takes a deep breath and calms down.

Even without this bill, a U.S. citizen that commits an act of war against the U.S. could be detained until the termination of hostilities (in accordance with the law of war).
Due process applies to criminal cases, not war.
No one is going to get rounded up and detained forever for no reason.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 1:41:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CCW:
The only candidate on the horizon that will even think about repealing this law? ? ? ? ?

That's '] Ron Paul[/span]

Remember, it took the Dims and Repugs to vote this "slow martial law" act into being. Oh, and Posse Comitatis, Due Process, etc., just went bye-bye.


But but but but but but but his shoes!
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 1:41:45 PM EDT
I guess I'll catch you dudes in Cuba. I have more than 7 days worth of food, which makes me a domestic terrorist, and my rights are now invalid.

Oh, by the way, fo time was approximately 2 weeks ago, and we all missed it.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 1:41:46 PM EDT
I wonder who they had lined up while they awaited for that bill to become law.

I say had because the moment it was law they probably went and snatched them up and we will never know.

-Foxxz
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 1:42:54 PM EDT
in before the pmag dust cover gif
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 1:48:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sixnine:
Sweet! Now Janet nipplecameltoe can lock anybody up she wants.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Well that may be better than the alternative: Death as a result of a drone induced "natural (or maybe propane) gas" explosion.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 1:51:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2011 1:51:45 PM EDT by Cypher15]
secton 1020
subsec e:
Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.

section 1021
subsec b
line 1
- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.


and just under that:

The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 1:51:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gulbrandr2:
I guess I'll catch you dudes in Cuba. I have more than 7 days worth of food, which makes me a domestic terrorist, and my rights are now invalid.

Oh, by the way, fo time was approximately 2 weeks ago, and we all missed it.


exactly.

the law is intentionally vague as to what consititutes 'terrorism'
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 1:54:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CCW:
The only candidate on the horizon that will even think about repealing this law? ? ? ? ?

That's '] Ron Paul[/span]

Remember, it took the Dims and Repugs to vote this "slow martial law" act into being. Oh, and Posse Comitatis, Due Process, etc., just went bye-bye.


It was a good thing RP voted against it. Oh wait, he didn't.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 1:55:15 PM EDT
This particular law aside...

Does anyone here think that lawmakers give a fuck about the constitution?
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 1:56:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cypher15:

Originally Posted By Anteater1717:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2012

The bill that permits the indefinite detention of American citizens (with the option of due process) is now law. Today our great leader signed this bill into law. In light of this, I feel significantly safer
its a bad bill to begin with but get real, there are specific clauses that make it not pertain to US citizens or resident aliens


Read it again.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 1:56:54 PM EDT
Completely UnConstitutional. Fuck John McCain and everyone who voted for it.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 1:59:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BatchelorGroda:
Completely UnConstitutional. Fuck John McCain and everyone who voted for it.


Yes well, you "fucking" them, won't do anything about it.

We are in the "soap box" phase of things.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 2:00:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By iiibdsiil:
Originally Posted By CCW:
The only candidate on the horizon that will even think about repealing this law? ? ? ? ?

That's '] Ron Paul[/span]

Remember, it took the Dims and Repugs to vote this "slow martial law" act into being. Oh, and Posse Comitatis, Due Process, etc., just went bye-bye.


It was a good thing RP voted against it. Oh wait, he DID




http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2011-375
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 2:00:58 PM EDT
Admittedly, I am behind on this one, and I'm a little confused. Why would the dims want this? Aren't they the ones that want due process for everyone no matter what the circumstances? What do they get out of it?

Link Posted: 12/31/2011 2:01:32 PM EDT
Can I fly the American flag upside down now ?
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 2:03:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gulbrandr2:
Originally Posted By BatchelorGroda:
Completely UnConstitutional. Fuck John McCain and everyone who voted for it.


Yes well, you "fucking" them, won't do anything about it.

We are in the "soap box" phase of things.


If we're talking about the 2012 choices, the "ballot" option isn't looking good.

And according to a jury nullification thread half (or better) of the posters here didn't believe in jury nullification.

where's the stick your head in the sand and take it up the ass box fit in to all of this again?
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 2:03:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2011 2:04:37 PM EDT by Cypher15]

Originally Posted By XterraJohn:
Originally Posted By Cypher15:

Originally Posted By Anteater1717:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2012

The bill that permits the indefinite detention of American citizens (with the option of due process) is now law. Today our great leader signed this bill into law. In light of this, I feel significantly safer
its a bad bill to begin with but get real, there are specific clauses that make it not pertain to US citizens or resident aliens


Read it again.
i have
aat the end of the sections in question it says "does not apply to US citizens"

Link Posted: 12/31/2011 2:06:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FlashHole:
Admittedly, I am behind on this one, and I'm a little confused. Why would the dims want this? Aren't they the ones that want due process for everyone no matter what the circumstances? What do they get out of it?



The Dem's and big gov Repub's aim to stay in power so this will be their's to wield. Slippery slope and all......

Link Posted: 12/31/2011 2:09:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By pilotman:
Originally Posted By Gulbrandr2:
Originally Posted By BatchelorGroda:
Completely UnConstitutional. Fuck John McCain and everyone who voted for it.


Yes well, you "fucking" them, won't do anything about it.

We are in the "soap box" phase of things.


If we're talking about the 2012 choices, the "ballot" option isn't looking good.

And according to a jury nullification thread half (or better) of the posters here didn't believe in jury nullification.

where's the stick your head in the sand and take it up the ass box fit in to all of this again?


If we lived in Europe, "stick your head in the sand" would be an option, mostly because we wouldn't know any better.

The United States of America is a double-edged sword. We have the greatest freedoms in the entire world, but as long as 50%+1 vote in favor, those freedoms can be taken away. We need to organize, peacefully, get our facts together beyond a shadow of a doubt, and start protesting. Congress has time to pass vitriol that restricts us further, but can't come together on a budget, I think its time to do something peaceably about it.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 2:13:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cypher15:
secton 1020
subsec e:
Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.

section 1021
subsec b
line 1
- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.


and just under that:

The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.


Just because the new life exempts US citizens from the REQUIREMENT of being detained indefinitely does not seem to mean to me that it exempts them from the OPTION of being detained indefinitely.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 2:20:34 PM EDT
Oh for Fuck's sake.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 2:22:30 PM EDT
A LOT of congresscritters had BETTER BE UNEMPLOYED SOON
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 2:26:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sixnine:
Sweet! Now Janet nipplecameltoe can lock anybody up she wants.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Link Posted: 12/31/2011 2:26:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By IndustrialRescue:
A LOT of congresscritters had BETTER BE UNEMPLOYED SOON


They won't be, and you can bet your sweet ass they'll cut pay for troops and benefits for veterans before they take a dime away from their own paychecks and pensions.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 2:29:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hard_Rock:
I'm sorry guys but without the guarantee of due process of law as mandated in the Constitution, which this law violates maliciously, a lot of people are not going to be willing to be taken into custody. This law will put the lives of law enforcement at needless risk.

Stupidity should be painful... but in this instance, it'll be the guys in the field getting the pain vs. the idiots that passed this unConstitutional bullshit.


If they are dumb enough to try and enforce they should expect the hate they get.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 2:38:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Nightfalcon007:
So what happens now?


the rounding up and transportation of all white folks to fema camps in 102,000 boxcars with shackles and guillotines fabricated in china and strategically placed throughout the fruited plain..

Operation Cable Splicer and Garden Plot are the two sub programs which will be implemented once the Rex 84 program is initiated for its proper purpose. Garden Plot is the program to control the population. Cable Splicer is the program for an orderly takeover of the state and local governments by the federal government. FEMA is the executive arm of the coming police state and thus will head up all operations. The Presidential Executive Orders already listed on the Federal Register also are part of the legal framework for this operation.

The camps all have railroad facilities as well as roads leading to and from the detention facilities. Many also have an airport nearby. The majority of the camps can house a population of 20,000 prisoners. Currently, the largest of these facilities is just outside of Fairbanks, Alaska. The Alaskan facility is a massive mental health facility and can hold approximately 2 million people.
... .


Since 1996, I have been consistently traveling, investigating, documenting and reporting that there are thousands of prisoner boxcars with shackles, manufactured out of Portland, OR, by GUNDERSON STEEL FABRICATION (plus other separate boxcar manufacturing companies/operations located nationwide.)

Through numerous contacts, including CIA/Naval Intel and other sources, it has been confirmed personally to me that there are numerous covert "FEMA/HOMELAND SECURITY concentration camps" located across America, Canada and Alaska for the hour of martial law and the seizure of this nation for the New World Order.

Many of these camps are actual termination facilities, some equipped with gassing/crematory facilities. Some of these facilities are also incorporated into the military's DUMB's (deep underground military facilities.) From sources inside the CIA, it was revealed to me that these numerous camps have been established to detain and ultimately terminate what they consistently referred to as "the resisters of the New World Order." (Michael Maholy, 20 years CIA/Naval Intelligence;confirmed independently by Elaine, former CIA assassin/NWO agenda planner.)
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 2:40:47 PM EDT
Am I missing something here? If you look at the votes, the most restrictive states (California, etc...) mostly voted against it. The free states (Texas and Florida, etc...) mostly voted for it.

So, not reading the any of the Bill, what am I missing?
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 2:42:05 PM EDT
Every last bastard that voted for this Should be voted out of office.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 2:48:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By pilotman:
Originally Posted By iiibdsiil:
Originally Posted By CCW:
The only candidate on the horizon that will even think about repealing this law? ? ? ? ?

That's '] Ron Paul[/span]

Remember, it took the Dims and Repugs to vote this "slow martial law" act into being. Oh, and Posse Comitatis, Due Process, etc., just went bye-bye.


It was a good thing RP voted against it. Oh wait, he [span style='color: red;']DID NOT[/span]




http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2011-375


Check your dates, sunshine.

Not Present on 12/14/2011

Link Posted: 12/31/2011 2:50:55 PM EDT
i am of the firm belief that none of this matters anymore.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 2:51:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cypher15:
secton 1020
subsec e:
Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.

section 1021
subsec b
line 1
- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.


and just under that:

The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.

Thank you for the clarity
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 2:53:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gulbrandr2:
Originally Posted By BatchelorGroda:
Completely UnConstitutional. Fuck John McCain and everyone who voted for it.


Yes well, you "fucking" them, won't do anything about it.

We are in the "soap box" phase of things.


Too many are still in the lunch-box stage ( I have a Raggedy Ann lunchbox packed full of PopTarts and C-4 )
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 2:53:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cypher15:

Originally Posted By Anteater1717:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2012

The bill that permits the indefinite detention of American citizens (with the option of due process) is now law. Today our great leader signed this bill into law. In light of this, I feel significantly safer
its a bad bill to begin with but get real, there are specific clauses that make it not pertain to US citizens or resident aliens

Since this is a gun board; look at what has happened to the 2A.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 2:58:25 PM EDT
I emailed my Rep. and asked for an explaination for her voting yes for NDAA 2012.

Here is her form letter response.:

December 28, 2011

Mr. David xxxxxx
1234 xxxxxxxxx st.
xxxx, Tennessee 38xxx

Dear Mr. xxxxxxx:

Thank you for contacting me regarding your concerns with the National Defense Authorization Act of 2012 (NDAA). Hearing from constituents on issues of concern is important to me as I work to represent our district.

As passed by the U.S. House of Representatives on December 14, 2011, the National Defense Authorization Act of 2012 maintains our current policy that the U.S. military has the right to detain individuals like the Underwear bomber or the Times Square bomber, who are part of or substantially supporting al Qaeda and associated forces. While the NDAA does not address or in any way alter existing law regarding the detention of U.S. citizens, the U.S. Supreme Court has previously held that there are certain contexts in which a U.S. citizen captured on the battlefield in Afghanistan may be lawfully held as an enemy combatant in the United States. However, the Supreme Court also held that such an individual is entitled to challenge the legality of his detention through a petition for habeas corpus in federal court. Many people are uncomfortable with this ruling, and I am not unsympathetic to their arguments. The NDAA does not address this issue and voting against NDAA would not override a Supreme Court decision, no matter how problematic some may find it. We were asked to vote on the proposition that the military has the authority to detain terrorists who are associated with al Qaeda and committing acts of war against Americans. I believe that the clear answer to that question is yes.

The following is a review of the detainee provisions in NDAA:

o The Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF) section in our bill, Section 1021, merely codifies current law. It specifically states, "nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities, relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States."

o Any U.S. citizen detained under Section 1021 has the right under Habeas corpus to have the legality of any such detention determined by our courts. The courts have also held that anyone detained under the AUMF at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, also has habeas rights. We do not change these rights.

o Section 1022, entitled, "Military Custody For Foreign al-Qaeda Terrorists" specifically excludes U.S. citizens. It states, "the requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States." It also states the requirement to detain under Section 1022 "does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States."

o We also codified periodic review for those being detained at Guantanamo Bay, both now and in the future. This is an important procedure for those detained indefinitely as a threat to the United States under the law of war.

I have included a link to the House Armed Services Committee Republicans website, which has a summary of the various provisions in the defense authorization act included for your review. Also linked is an informative piece written by Congressman Buck McKeon, Chairman of the House Committee of Armed Services, entitled "Myths on the New Detainee Policy." Rest assured, as the 112th Congress moves forward, I will continue to keep your views in mind.

Please know that I appreciate both your interest and time in contacting us on this issue. As the discussion moves forward on this and other issues, please feel free to visit our website at www.house.gov/blackburn where you can sign up for our email update, learn about constituent services, and find the latest legislative news and critical information that affects and concerns the people of Tennessee.

Sincerely,



Marsha Blackburn
Member of Congress

MB/
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 3:02:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
i am of the firm belief that none of this matters anymore.

Subscibed to newsletter and explanation.
Link Posted: 12/31/2011 3:05:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cypher15:

Originally Posted By XterraJohn:
Originally Posted By Cypher15:

Originally Posted By Anteater1717:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2012

The bill that permits the indefinite detention of American citizens (with the option of due process) is now law. Today our great leader signed this bill into law. In light of this, I feel significantly safer
its a bad bill to begin with but get real, there are specific clauses that make it not pertain to US citizens or resident aliens


Read it again.
i have
aat the end of the sections in question it says "does not apply to US citizens"


THIS IS PROBABLY A DUMB QUESTION, BUT I'LL ASK IT FOR THE OPINION OF THE HIVE......

Do you think that it is within the realm of possibility for LE to grab you, then the gov't revoke your U.S. citizenship, then hold you indefinately since the you are not technically a U.S. citizen at that point?

AS I SAID IT'S PROBABLY A DUMB QUESTION.
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