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Posted: 1/6/2012 5:53:55 PM EDT
A future President will have to deal with the consequences of a weak America.

I weep for the future of my Grandson and my country.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 5:58:30 PM EDT
What's this weak shit?
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 6:02:31 PM EDT
You know the DoD budget is still gonna increase each year, right?

In case you hadn't noticed, we're fucking broke.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 6:03:09 PM EDT


Ronald Reagan picked up the pieces after Carter gutted it.

He was my Commander in Chief for my first five years of service.

I didn't know how good I really had it then.


Link Posted: 1/6/2012 6:03:45 PM EDT
2/10. Not quite enough melodrama. No defense spending charts showing us how we spend as much as the next 20 countries combined with an explanation of how we need to keep that up, but increase it, when we border two weak countries and are separated from the rest of the world by ocean.

Try a few beers and have another go.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 6:05:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Fast_Jimmy:
2/10. Not quite enough melodrama. No defense spending charts showing us how we spend as much as the next 20 countries combined with an explanation of how we need to keep that up, but increase it, when we border two weak countries and are separated from the rest of the world by ocean.

Try a few beers and have another go.

It is different when he do more combat operations than those other countries. It would be different if we just stayed at home but the government says, "cut spending, maintain operations, oh and get ready for shit in Africa."


Link Posted: 1/6/2012 6:07:10 PM EDT
But on the bright side there will be more money available for welfare.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 6:08:33 PM EDT
Going to need the money for welfare when all the troops come home to an already weak job market.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 6:08:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Partisan:
But on the bright side there will be more money available for welfare.

thats WHY the mil is being gutted and the ONLY reason
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 6:10:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cableguy221:
Originally Posted By Fast_Jimmy:
2/10. Not quite enough melodrama. No defense spending charts showing us how we spend as much as the next 20 countries combined with an explanation of how we need to keep that up, but increase it, when we border two weak countries and are separated from the rest of the world by ocean.

Try a few beers and have another go.

It is different when he do more combat operations than those other countries. It would be different if we just stayed at home but the government says, "cut spending, maintain operations, oh and get ready for shit in Africa."




That's another issue entirely. If you take away the operations budget, we'd still outspend the top 15 or 16 nations. If I had to take a guess, I'd say the OP was bristling with justifications for another more expensive war and also screeching about our bloated budget.

Coherent, restrained, reasonable... Conservative.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 6:10:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2012 6:11:10 PM EDT by SilentType]
Originally Posted By Strongbow:
You know the DoD budget is still gonna increase each year, right?

In case you hadn't noticed, we're fucking broke.


Well, it's the allocation of funds and the areas where the cuts are coming that should concern you.

You see the Obama Administration is doing exactly what the Carter Administration did and that is EXPECT the military to be capable of doing everything, but not allowing it to be able to achieve the means to do it. There will be no overseas base closures. No realignment of our cold war posture and believe me we'll still be trying to project power over every square inch of dirt on this planet. The problem is that where the cuts are coming are in areas that will retard our ability to stay out in front of our enemies in technology by slowing down acquisition of new tech and causing a brain drain loss of talent.

The only thing that maintains global stability and has prevent a third world war has been US military dominance. We are able to maintain our dominance even over enemies who greatly outnumber due to our technological edge. We need an F-22 that can take down ten MIG 29s. When our ability to overcome our enemies awesome numerical suppority is harmed our enemies become more bold and our "fair weather" allies start to distance themselves perhaps even going over to our enemies.

I know the RP folks think that an isolated USA surrounded by enemies without allies would be fine and dandy, but that would be trading in little conflicts for BIG wars. Our enemies are not content to just live and let live folks.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 6:11:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Johnny_Reno:


Ronald Reagan picked up the pieces after Carter gutted it.

He was my Commander in Chief for my first five years of service.

I didn't know how good I really had it then.




Entered in '81; went through the draw-up and survived the draw-down in the 90's. I fully understand what an increased op-tempo with no increase of funding means.

Link Posted: 1/6/2012 6:12:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:
Originally Posted By Johnny_Reno:


Ronald Reagan picked up the pieces after Carter gutted it.

He was my Commander in Chief for my first five years of service.

I didn't know how good I really had it then.




Entered in '81; went through the draw-up and survived the draw-down in the 90's. I fully understand what an increased op-tempo with no increase of funding means.



Absolutely.

Do more with less. The Paulbots act as though these cuts will accompany some isolation shift in foreign policy, but we all know damn well Obama loves his little wars.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 6:15:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cypher15:

Originally Posted By Partisan:
But on the bright side there will be more money available for welfare.

thats WHY the mil is being gutted and the ONLY reason


Absolutely.

Can't gut Social Security or the other entitlement programs that are MANDATORY budget items. Defense spending has been and will always be discretionary. It's always going to be the whipping child the Democrats will beat.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 6:16:17 PM EDT
Dems cutting the Defense budget and ratcheting up the Social Programs is old hat.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 6:19:29 PM EDT
You can always count on Jimmy to have Zero's back.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 6:19:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2012 6:23:38 PM EDT by PanzerOfDoom]
Originally Posted By Fast_Jimmy:
2/10. Not quite enough melodrama. No defense spending charts showing us how we spend as much as the next 20 countries combined with an explanation of how we need to keep that up, but increase it, when we border two weak countries and are separated from the rest of the world by ocean.

Try a few beers and have another go.


With that brilliant logic why don't you explain how the Soviet Union didn't totally take over Europe? They afraid the French army would roll through Fulda and stomp the crap out of them? The Luxembourg navy was gonna wipe them from the Barents?
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 6:20:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SilentType:
Originally Posted By Cypher15:

Originally Posted By Partisan:
But on the bright side there will be more money available for welfare.

thats WHY the mil is being gutted and the ONLY reason


Absolutely.

Can't gut Social Security or the other entitlement programs that are MANDATORY budget items. Defense spending has been and will always be discretionary. It's always going to be the whipping child the Democrats will beat.


Cut all the social programs directed towards deadbeats who have never had a productive day in their lives before you start whacking at SS and the military.

And fuck this shit of calling SS an "entitlement" program. Fucking horseshit.

Link Posted: 1/6/2012 6:21:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:
Originally Posted By Fast_Jimmy:
2/10. Not quite enough melodrama. No defense spending charts showing us how we spend as much as the next 20 countries combined with an explanation of how we need to keep that up, but increase it, when we border two weak countries and are separated from the rest of the world by ocean.

Try a few beers and have another go.


With that brilliant logic why don't you explain how the Soviet Union didn't totally take over Europe? They afraid the French army would roll through Fulda and stomp the crap out of them? The Luxemburg navy was gonna wipe them from the Barents?


Ah, he always take the opposing view. Count on him to defend the Dems, then just ignore him.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 6:22:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 583:
Dems cutting the Defense budget and ratcheting up the Social Programs is old hat.


Everybody on the Hill has their favorite pet.

In other news, we're broke.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 6:22:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Originally Posted By SilentType:
Originally Posted By Cypher15:

Originally Posted By Partisan:
But on the bright side there will be more money available for welfare.

thats WHY the mil is being gutted and the ONLY reason


Absolutely.

Can't gut Social Security or the other entitlement programs that are MANDATORY budget items. Defense spending has been and will always be discretionary. It's always going to be the whipping child the Democrats will beat.


Cut all the social programs directed towards deadbeats who have never had a productive day in their lives before you start whacking at SS and the military.

And fuck this shit of calling SS an "entitlement" program. Fucking horseshit.



Agreed, big time.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 6:26:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cableguy221:
Originally Posted By Fast_Jimmy:
2/10. Not quite enough melodrama. No defense spending charts showing us how we spend as much as the next 20 countries combined with an explanation of how we need to keep that up, but increase it, when we border two weak countries and are separated from the rest of the world by ocean.

Try a few beers and have another go.

It is different when he do more combat operations than those other countries. It would be different if we just stayed at home but the government says, "cut spending, maintain operations, oh and get ready for shit in Africa."



That's why God gave us big fucking bombs.


I'm just sayin'.

Link Posted: 1/6/2012 6:27:45 PM EDT
The cycle has repeated itself multiple times. It takes about a decade.

Military funding gets cut drastically..
Urgent need for military arises..
Public Outcry for better military funding..
Over/wasteful funding of military during deployments
Repeat.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 6:48:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2012 6:49:45 PM EDT by cochran9304]
Why blame Obama?

1. you elected politicians who:
a. merged social security and the general budget;
b. launched the Great Society;
c. created entitlement programs without a regard for funding;
d. eliminated the restrictions on financial institutions designed by Joe Kennedy so that the Depression would not recur;

2. you should look in the mirror - that is the source of most problems. You sat back and didn't vote, campaign for candidates, or make political contributions.

Obama can not create money. He cannot authorize or fund expenditures.

If you truly believe that everything was hunky dory up until now, you have been dreaming. You have an admiral for every ship in the Navy now. You have more 4 star generals than in WWII. Despite a few Republican Presidents from time to time, the production of small arms ammo for inventory is behind for the next three years despite a $1 billion expansion of the ammo plant and letting public contracts for productio of ammo.

There are over 1000 US military bases overseas, including 243 golf courses. Jeez!

If you don't like the concept of a draft with nearly free labor and prefer to pay for a "professional" army, you can't complain that it costs money.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:22:43 PM EDT
Doesn't kick in until 2015 right? Unless Obama wins a second term this can still be reversed.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:35:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cochran9304:
Why blame Obama?

1. you elected politicians who:
a. merged social security and the general budget;
b. launched the Great Society;
c. created entitlement programs without a regard for funding;
d. eliminated the restrictions on financial institutions designed by Joe Kennedy so that the Depression would not recur;

2. you should look in the mirror - that is the source of most problems. You sat back and didn't vote, campaign for candidates, or make political contributions.

Obama can not create money. He cannot authorize or fund expenditures.

If you truly believe that everything was hunky dory up until now, you have been dreaming. You have an admiral for every ship in the Navy now. You have more 4 star generals than in WWII. Despite a few Republican Presidents from time to time, the production of small arms ammo for inventory is behind for the next three years despite a $1 billion expansion of the ammo plant and letting public contracts for productio of ammo.

There are over 1000 US military bases overseas, including 243 golf courses. Jeez!
If you don't like the concept of a draft with nearly free labor and prefer to pay for a "professional" army, you can't complain that it costs money.


216 Admirals 283 ships. 182 aviation squadrons. 48 bases in the US, 129 outside the US.

Small arms ammo is produced for the military at LC. Times past there have been many more plants than that; if you hadn't noticed, it's in demand.

Yep, the only thing those guys in Astan are doing is playing golf.

Don't let facts trip you up, go back and review your Paul talking points and get back to me when you gain some real knowledge of military affairs.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:40:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By unpleasant:
The cycle has repeated itself multiple times. It takes about a decade.

Military funding gets cut drastically..
Urgent need for military arises..
Public Outcry for better military funding..
Blame the Republican President in office for not supplying troops...
Over/wasteful funding of military during deployments
Repeat.

Fixed
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:41:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 583:
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Originally Posted By SilentType:
Originally Posted By Cypher15:

Originally Posted By Partisan:
But on the bright side there will be more money available for welfare.

thats WHY the mil is being gutted and the ONLY reason


Absolutely.

Can't gut Social Security or the other entitlement programs that are MANDATORY budget items. Defense spending has been and will always be discretionary. It's always going to be the whipping child the Democrats will beat.


Cut all the social programs directed towards deadbeats who have never had a productive day in their lives before you start whacking at SS and the military.

And fuck this shit of calling SS an "entitlement" program. Fucking horseshit.



Agreed, big time.
X2

Yep. Of course you have lobbyist supported politicians pushing for ending SS since none of them will need it and neither will the people paying the lobbyists. SS is not an entitlement program.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:41:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:
A future President will have to deal with the consequences of a weak America.

I weep for the future of my Grandson and my country.

What I thought I heard somewhere is that US defense spending is 5x the rest of the world combined

I also heard something like we have more navy admirals than we do ships

weak? Could probably stand to do some real cuts and we'd still be alright, just need to stop paying $500 for a toilet seat and crap like that
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:45:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Fast_Jimmy:
Originally Posted By cableguy221:
Originally Posted By Fast_Jimmy:
2/10. Not quite enough melodrama. No defense spending charts showing us how we spend as much as the next 20 countries combined with an explanation of how we need to keep that up, but increase it, when we border two weak countries and are separated from the rest of the world by ocean.

Try a few beers and have another go.

It is different when he do more combat operations than those other countries. It would be different if we just stayed at home but the government says, "cut spending, maintain operations, oh and get ready for shit in Africa."




That's another issue entirely. If you take away the operations budget, we'd still outspend the top 15 or 16 nations. If I had to take a guess, I'd say the OP was bristling with justifications for another more expensive war and also screeching about our bloated budget.

Coherent, restrained, reasonable... Conservative.


If you took away the personnel costs we could save around 25%. Sure we'd have to conscript and not pay, but think of how much more money that would be to give away.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:47:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Strongbow:
You know the DoD budget is still gonna increase each year, right?

In case you hadn't noticed, we're fucking broke.


this. I'll believe he's gutting the military when I see it.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:48:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2012 7:48:30 PM EDT by SmilingBandit]
Originally Posted By MadnessReigns:

Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:
A future President will have to deal with the consequences of a weak America.

I weep for the future of my Grandson and my country.

What I thought I heard somewhere is that US defense spending is 5x the rest of the world combined

I also heard something like we have more navy admirals than we do ships

weak? Could probably stand to do some real cuts and we'd still be alright, just need to stop paying $500 for a toilet seat and crap like that


D o you really think the military spends $500 for a toilet seat you can get at home depot?
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:48:59 PM EDT
Our mil is antiquated at best. Yes there are groups that get high tech shit, but that's a minority. We are need small, deadly, precision teams backed up by the greatest tech know to man. Putting 100k troops on the ground doesnt work anymore. I think O has shown great caution in putting troops in, the air campaigns you have seen under him will grow (look at the increase of drone strikes) and casualties will fall greatly. I'll call it, " bombs, no blood". Ask a terrorist in the middle east what the first thing they do when the walk outside is. Hell tell you, "look up". If this is truly the way O is going, I support it.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:49:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MadnessReigns:

Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:
A future President will have to deal with the consequences of a weak America.

I weep for the future of my Grandson and my country.

What I thought I heard somewhere is that US defense spending is 5x the rest of the world combined

I also heard something like we have more navy admirals than we do ships

weak? Could probably stand to do some real cuts and we'd still be alright, just need to stop paying $500 for a toilet seat and crap like that


Dear fucking god, if you believe that you're even dumber than you sound.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:54:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By modernwarfare:
Our mil is antiquated at best. Yes there are groups that get high tech shit, but that's a minority. We are need small, deadly, precision teams backed up by the greatest tech know to man. Putting 100k troops on the ground doesnt work anymore. I think O has shown great caution in putting troops in, the air campaigns you have seen under him will grow (look at the increase of drone strikes) and casualties will fall greatly. I'll call it, " bombs, no blood". Ask a terrorist in the middle east what the first thing they do when the walk outside is. Hell tell you, "look up". If this is truly the way O is going, I support it.


Airpower has never secured a foot of enemy territory. No matter how high tech and dominating we are, it's the infantryman on the ground that wins the war.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 7:56:19 PM EDT
Conquering terriority ended for us years ago. Not necessary anymore, just look at Vietnam, Iraq, and Afganastan.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 8:01:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By modernwarfare:
Conquering terriority ended for us years ago. Not necessary anymore, just look at Vietnam, Iraq, and Afganastan.


I must have missed how the tide turned in Iraq after the bomber surge.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 8:06:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Originally Posted By modernwarfare:
Conquering terriority ended for us years ago. Not necessary anymore, just look at Vietnam, Iraq, and Afganastan.


I must have missed how the tide turned in Iraq after the bomber surge.


Let's not sully this thread with facts, stick to the Paul talking points.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 8:15:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Originally Posted By modernwarfare:
Conquering terriority ended for us years ago. Not necessary anymore, just look at Vietnam, Iraq, and Afganastan.


I must have missed how the tide turned in Iraq after the bomber surge.


Let's not sully this thread with facts, stick to the Paul talking points.


Where are my manners?
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 8:18:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2012 8:18:43 PM EDT by modernwarfare]
FACT- The tide turned because we paid a warlord. Plus, we never should have been there to begin with. Not one drop of blood should have been spilled over SH.
Link Posted: 1/6/2012 8:20:42 PM EDT

on a lighter note...food stamps increased almost 3X since dumbo took office.
This is going just as planned for him..
I personally think he will win second term and his last 4 years will be worse than these four.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 5:44:21 PM EDT
He is gutting it so he could have his civilian military
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 6:02:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By gonzo_beyondo:
What's this weak shit?


We are not weak. It is just that we no longer fight in "wars"...it usually seems that the only fighting we do is in self defense while we are over there.

If we were to ever have a REAL war again, with a known enemy country, it would (should) be started and finished within 5 days....IF we had a good CIC and a non-pussy Congress.

Be friends with friendly countries...Protect our borders...And literally destroy ANY country that bares it's teeth to us...fucking period, end of story.







Link Posted: 1/7/2012 6:08:49 PM EDT
Military cutbacks are nothing new, and we still have the best military in the world.
Link Posted: 1/7/2012 6:16:14 PM EDT


Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:
A future President will have to deal with the consequences of a weak America.

I weep for the future of my Grandson and my country.


Happened before. Remember Slick Willy Clinton and his "peace dividend"...cut Military spending because the Iron Curtain was no longer up to cause us problems....and when we go into Iran/Afghanistan we're doing it with less troops, national guards instead of regular army (not to disrespect the NG guys, but calling them up for long periods of time isn't what should have been done), etc.

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