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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 10/5/2005 7:36:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2005 7:37:33 AM EDT by BenDover]
So, I get this form in the mail from the Ohio Department of Taxation... Form 7004... which states that I failed to file a school income tax return for my local school district for 2002. This letter explains that I have 20 days to respond or they will file an estimated assessment with the addition of a $500 penalty. The way that they determined that I had not filed my SD-100 return for the local school district was by matching my State Income Tax return filing address.

Well, I did not take up my new residence in the district in question until January of 2003. This is easy enough to handle as the form 7004 even instructs us to send a letter of explanation back to them that we did not live in the district until 2003.

But the more I pondered this issue, the more confused I became, so I called the Taxpayer Hotline. After about 90 minutes of trying to get past a busy signal, I got to the automated attendant, which immediately prompted me with information about how to remit my tax payement over the phone with a credit card.

Anxious bunch aren't they.

So I wade through the list of options, and get a chance to hear more information about the form 7004 itself. This was a general re-statement of the copy of the letter, with a very light, sugar coated explanation that I was somehow at fault for not filing the right forms.

I punch past and opt to talk to a live Tax agent. After a short 40 minute wait, I was greeted by a very nice voice that claimed her name was Ann. I explained to Ann that I had received this form 7004 letter in the mail and had some questions that the automated attendent didn't seem to cover.

She politely stated that she would do her best to assist me.

The first thing that I asked was, if the DeRolf IV decision by the State Supreme Court of Ohio left the school funding legislation in a de facto status of being unconstitutional; then, in all seriousness, how could the Ohio Department of Taxation send a letter like this claiming that they would assess you with a bill and a penalty if you didn't respond?

She stated that yes, school funding was declared unconstitutional by the Ohio Supreme Court, and it was up to the Ohio Legislature to fix it, but until they do, the Ohio Department of Taxation must follow the code that exists, up to and including taking people to court for non-payment of a tax that has been declared unconstitutional. Meaning, they pay legal fees, court costs, labor expenses, administrative costs, an such to file and pursue cases that they know they will lose because of the law being unconstitutional. Since most people continue to pay the taxes and even pass new school levy income taxes under the same unconstitutional law, nobody at the state legislature seems motivated to give the money back or change the law.

Then I asked Ann about their system itself. Particularly, the fact that they use the State Tax return filing address to identify any missing school district returns. If someone relocates from one district to another anytime between January 1 and April 14 of any year, though they spent the entire year at their prior address, their tax return for that year will likely be filed with their new address. This means, anyone who relocates inside the State of Ohio within the first 3 & 1/2 months of every year will likely receive the form 7004 notice letter and consume government resources to explain why they don't owe the tax for the new district.

Just how many households in Ohio do you think relocates annually in the timeframe between January 1 and April 14?

That's a lot of money spent of letters, postage, labor, long distance charges for their 888 hotline, etc...

ALL TO COLLECT A TAX THAT HAS BEEN DECLARED UNCONSTITUTIONAL BY THE OHIO SUPREME COURT

Needless to say, Ann was a bit taken aback by my statements, but... get this.... she agreed with me.

She agreed.

Thoma­s Jefferson must not only be flipping in his grave... the Department of the Interior is getting richter scale earthquake readings stemming from his epileptic convulsions.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 9:02:14 AM EDT
So are you going to let it sit till they come knocking, or did Ann work some magic and you no longer owe taxes for the next 10 years
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 9:08:42 AM EDT
Call Gov. (Sh)taft and tell him, until he pays back that 300 million, you're not paying back a few tax dollars.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 9:26:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2005 9:27:00 AM EDT by Yojimbo]
So what will happen if this goes to court?

It's seems like you would win because I can't see how you could be found to be in the wrong for not paying tax which was found to be unconstitutional by the highest court in the state.

It really looks like we have short bus escapees running the Ohio Department of Taxation...
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 9:29:14 AM EDT
Well, they are forcing me to file a response with them -- or, they hit me with an estimated tax and a $500 penalty for failure to file.

Is this not in violation of a whole bunch of basic concepts upon which our nation was founded (innocent until proven guilty, etc...)

Link Posted: 10/5/2005 9:29:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Yojimbo:
So what will happen if this goes to court?



It should be thrown out in preliminary motions.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 9:40:00 AM EDT
I get those all the time...I just ignore em
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 9:44:49 AM EDT
I just got off the phone with the IRS.

They were supposed to have a resolution to my issue (mis-directed refund check.....there is some disagreement as to whether this was the fault of the IRS, or my accountant...) 6 weeks from August 23.

Now they tell me '6 weeks from September 6'....


I suppose that if you can't get it done in 6 weeks from a certain date, you can just change the date.....
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 9:48:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2005 10:14:57 AM EDT by slefelar]
Um, I think the Ohio SC declared the manner in which schools are funded in Ohio to be unconstitutional, not the specific tax to which you refer. If the state (or counties) were prohibited from collecting tax relating to schools, the schools would already be shut down, no? I would be interested to see a case in Ohio where an individual taxpayer was relieved from paying taxes as result of the DeRolf decisions.

Of course, "we don't need no education. . .we don't need no mind control"

Link Posted: 10/5/2005 9:48:56 AM EDT

Well did you ask her out?
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 9:49:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2005 9:52:12 AM EDT by Yojimbo]

Originally Posted By Hawker:
I get those all the time...I just ignore em



Has anyone from ODT ever contacted you or tried take legal action against you?

Sounds like the ODT is hoping to get some extra revenue from people who don't know about the DeRolf IV decision...
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 9:56:45 AM EDT
Stop complaining and pay your school tax. Don't you want the little buggers to get edumedicated?
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 10:03:18 AM EDT
Fuck Ohio, they tried the same shit on me, I aint paying especially when I do not have any kids !!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 10:07:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 10:22:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
edumedicated



First time I've seen that one... I like it!
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 10:59:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BenDover:
Well, they are forcing me to file a response with them -- or, they hit me with an estimated tax and a $500 penalty for failure to file.

Is this not in violation of a whole bunch of basic concepts upon which our nation was founded (innocent until proven guilty, etc...)




And then, when the tax was cleared in court, they would STILL stick you with the $500 penalty, because the penalty isn't unconstitutional...

Jim
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 11:24:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KS_Physicist:

Originally Posted By BenDover:
Well, they are forcing me to file a response with them -- or, they hit me with an estimated tax and a $500 penalty for failure to file.

Is this not in violation of a whole bunch of basic concepts upon which our nation was founded (innocent until proven guilty, etc...)




And then, when the tax was cleared in court, they would STILL stick you with the $500 penalty, because the penalty isn't unconstitutional...

Jim



Some days I sort of (AND I STRESS SORT OF) understand what pissed off Tim McVeigh and Ted Kasczinsky.

Link Posted: 10/5/2005 11:29:31 AM EDT
You could always build an armored bulldozer. Strictly for educational purposes of course.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 11:32:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rkbar15:
You could always build an armored bulldozer. Strictly for educational purposes of course.



ROFL... how many gov buildings did that guy take out?
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 11:45:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2005 11:49:59 AM EDT by rkbar15]
I think he had a problem with authoritah! The first two pics are the Granby Town Hall building.













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