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Posted: 10/22/2016 9:31:09 AM EDT
In 1982 in Hialeah, Carl Robert Brown decided to go a kill a number of folks. He first went to a metal fabrication shop and then planned on going to Hialeah Junior High. He even tried to get his son in on the plan.







Here is the events as they unfolded.....














On August 19, 1982, the day before the shooting, Brown had a heated argument with Jorge Castalleda, an employee at "Bob Moore's Welding & Machine Service Inc.", about a $20 bill for repairing a lawnmower engine he wanted to use to power his bicycle, saying the work was poorly done. He was also angry because his traveler's check was refused. Realizing that his complaints were of no avail, Brown left the shop, stating that he would come in and kill everybody; no one took him seriously.
 













Early the next day Brown went to a gun store a few blocks from his home in Hialeah and purchased two shotguns, a semi-automatic rifle and ammunition. An hour before starting his rampage, Brown invited his 10-year-old son to join him in "killing a lot of people" telling him that the final destination would be Hialeah Junior High School.













Shortly before 11:00 a.m. he arrived at the welding shop on his cycle, wearing a Panama hat and with one of the shotguns, which was variously identified as a 12 gauge Mossberg 500 Persuader or an Ithaca 37 with a pistol grip, slung over his shoulder. He entered the shop through a side door and began shooting, saying that he would send everybody to Germany. According to police Brown walked through the building methodically shooting everyone, most of the time at close range and sometimes twice, leaving three victims in the office and others in the work area and the driveway in front of the shop. In the end six of the eleven employees present were dead and two more dying, while three who were injured managed to escape and jump into the car of a passing motorist, who took them to a gasoline station a mile away and called for help. When his gun was emptied Carl Brown stepped out of the store, reloaded and reentered to shoot two more times, before leaving for good and cycling away, apparently towards Hialeah Junior High School. According to a witness Brown "looked very passive and very nonchalant" and "wasn't trying to escape, just casually leaving the crime scene." Another witness put it this way: "He got on his bike and pedaled off as if he was going for a stroll on North River Drive."










When Mark Kram, an employee at a nearby metal shop, was told of the massacre, he grabbed a .38 revolver and set out to pursue the shooter in his car. Down the street he picked up Ernest Hammett, who was trying to flag down cars, and together they tried to find the perpetrator. Six blocks away from the crime scene, near Miami International Airport, they caught up with Brown and Kram, according to himself, fired a warning shot "over his (Brown's) head", though the bullet hit Brown in the back and later proved to be the cause of his death. When Brown turned in his saddle, aiming at his pursuers with his shotgun, they ran him over, crashing him into a concrete light pole. Brown, who still had 20 shells in his pockets, died shortly afterward.





 
 
 


































Here is the shooter.

















Why will you never hear about this one? Because a armed citizen stopped a nut job from killing a bunch of kids in a middle school.















 
 
Link Posted: 10/22/2016 9:38:33 AM EDT
[#1]
Am I reading this correctly, that he was on a BICYCLE?
Link Posted: 10/22/2016 9:41:49 AM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
Am I reading this correctly, that he was on a BICYCLE?
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Its Hialeah. That's where Florida man was born.

Link Posted: 10/22/2016 9:43:18 AM EDT
[#3]
As a nineteen-year Florida resident, the most amazing aspect of this story is that there was a white guy in Hialeah.
Link Posted: 10/22/2016 9:46:07 AM EDT
[#4]

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Quoted:


As a nineteen-year Florida resident, the most amazing aspect of this story is that there was a white guy in Hialeah.
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The effects of the Mariel boatlift didn't reach Hialeah yet.

 
Link Posted: 10/22/2016 9:49:38 AM EDT
[#5]
But I was told that the 38 Special is a useless peashooter and hopelessly outclassed.
Link Posted: 10/22/2016 9:50:37 AM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
The effects of the Mariel boatlift didn't reach Hialeah yet.  
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Quoted:
Quoted:
As a nineteen-year Florida resident, the most amazing aspect of this story is that there was a white guy in Hialeah.
The effects of the Mariel boatlift didn't reach Hialeah yet.  


Yea. I remember Hialeah was still somewhat rednecky back then.
Link Posted: 10/22/2016 9:52:19 AM EDT
[#7]
Um, these guys didn't stop shit. The shooter finished and left the scene after killing six people. Hell, they killed him with a car, not a gun.

And this happened 34 years ago.

Posting stuff like this as "evidence" that gun carriers are likely to stop mass shootings makes us look silly. Go with something like the Muhammad cartoon contest in Texas or the recent mall shooting.
Link Posted: 10/22/2016 9:52:53 AM EDT
[#8]

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Yea. I remember Hialeah was still somewhat rednecky back then.
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Quoted:


Quoted:

As a nineteen-year Florida resident, the most amazing aspect of this story is that there was a white guy in Hialeah.
The effects of the Mariel boatlift didn't reach Hialeah yet.  




Yea. I remember Hialeah was still somewhat rednecky back then.
Yup.... but we took over.

 





Link Posted: 10/22/2016 9:54:08 AM EDT
[#9]

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Quoted:


Um, these guys didn't stop shit. The shooter finished and left the scene after killing six people.



And this happened 34 years ago.



Posting stuff like this as "evidence" that gun carriers are likely to stop mass shootings makes us look silly. Go with something like the Muhammad cartoon contest in Texas or the recent mall shooting.
View Quote
He was on his way to Hialeah Junior High

 



You know.... a school, with students in it. He even tried to recruit his son to kill folks at school.




Yeah, I'd say they prevented further bloodshed.
Link Posted: 10/22/2016 9:57:02 AM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:
He was on his way to Hialeah Junior High  

You know.... a school, with students in it. He even tried to recruit his son to kill folks at school.


Yeah, I'd say they prevented further bloodshed.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Um, these guys didn't stop shit. The shooter finished and left the scene after killing six people.

And this happened 34 years ago.

Posting stuff like this as "evidence" that gun carriers are likely to stop mass shootings makes us look silly. Go with something like the Muhammad cartoon contest in Texas or the recent mall shooting.
He was on his way to Hialeah Junior High  

You know.... a school, with students in it. He even tried to recruit his son to kill folks at school.


Yeah, I'd say they prevented further bloodshed.


No. He was "apparently" on his way to the school. There is no evidence he was going there. And they killed the shooter with a car not a gun. All the .38 did was get the shooter to turn around and try to kill the citizen. Hell, the citizen wasn't even trying to hit the shooter when he fired. The citizen would have been better off to have never shot. Stupid story is still stupid.
Link Posted: 10/22/2016 10:06:03 AM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:


No. He was "apparently" on his way to the school. There is no evidence he was going there. And they killed the shooter with a car not a gun. All the .38 did was get the shooter to turn around and try to kill the citizen. Hell, the citizen wasn't even trying to hit the shooter when he fired. The citizen would have been better off to have never shot. Stupid story is still stupid.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Um, these guys didn't stop shit. The shooter finished and left the scene after killing six people.

And this happened 34 years ago.

Posting stuff like this as "evidence" that gun carriers are likely to stop mass shootings makes us look silly. Go with something like the Muhammad cartoon contest in Texas or the recent mall shooting.
He was on his way to Hialeah Junior High  

You know.... a school, with students in it. He even tried to recruit his son to kill folks at school.


Yeah, I'd say they prevented further bloodshed.


No. He was "apparently" on his way to the school. There is no evidence he was going there. And they killed the shooter with a car not a gun. All the .38 did was get the shooter to turn around and try to kill the citizen. Hell, the citizen wasn't even trying to hit the shooter when he fired. The citizen would have been better off to have never shot. Stupid story is still stupid.


It's still a story of good guys stopping bad guys though. I liked it and not heard of it before. Thanks for posting.

Cheers!
-JC
Link Posted: 10/22/2016 10:09:17 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


No. He was "apparently" on his way to the school. There is no evidence he was going there. And they killed the shooter with a car not a gun. All the .38 did was get the shooter to turn around and try to kill the citizen. Hell, the citizen wasn't even trying to hit the shooter when he fired. The citizen would have been better off to have never shot. Stupid story is still stupid.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Um, these guys didn't stop shit. The shooter finished and left the scene after killing six people.

And this happened 34 years ago.

Posting stuff like this as "evidence" that gun carriers are likely to stop mass shootings makes us look silly. Go with something like the Muhammad cartoon contest in Texas or the recent mall shooting.
He was on his way to Hialeah Junior High  

You know.... a school, with students in it. He even tried to recruit his son to kill folks at school.


Yeah, I'd say they prevented further bloodshed.


No. He was "apparently" on his way to the school. There is no evidence he was going there. And they killed the shooter with a car not a gun. All the .38 did was get the shooter to turn around and try to kill the citizen. Hell, the citizen wasn't even trying to hit the shooter when he fired. The citizen would have been better off to have never shot. Stupid story is still stupid.


"Six blocks away from the crime scene, near Miami International Airport, they caught up with Brown and Kram, according to himself, fired a warning shot "over his (Brown's) head", though the bullet hit Brown in the back and later proved to be the cause of his death."

Link Posted: 10/22/2016 10:28:29 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


"Six blocks away from the crime scene, near Miami International Airport, they caught up with Brown and Kram, according to himself, fired a warning shot "over his (Brown's) head", though the bullet hit Brown in the back and later proved to be the cause of his death."

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Um, these guys didn't stop shit. The shooter finished and left the scene after killing six people.

And this happened 34 years ago.

Posting stuff like this as "evidence" that gun carriers are likely to stop mass shootings makes us look silly. Go with something like the Muhammad cartoon contest in Texas or the recent mall shooting.
He was on his way to Hialeah Junior High  

You know.... a school, with students in it. He even tried to recruit his son to kill folks at school.


Yeah, I'd say they prevented further bloodshed.


No. He was "apparently" on his way to the school. There is no evidence he was going there. And they killed the shooter with a car not a gun. All the .38 did was get the shooter to turn around and try to kill the citizen. Hell, the citizen wasn't even trying to hit the shooter when he fired. The citizen would have been better off to have never shot. Stupid story is still stupid.


"Six blocks away from the crime scene, near Miami International Airport, they caught up with Brown and Kram, according to himself, fired a warning shot "over his (Brown's) head", though the bullet hit Brown in the back and later proved to be the cause of his death."



Yes, but an anti gunner (and plenty of others) would still say the citizen would be better off running over the shooter with a car than trying to fire high warning shots in a city. And the bullet that killed the shooter did nothing to stop the shooting. It is a great story about citizens apprehending  criminals, but, at least to me,  it doesn't advance the idea that private gun ownership prevents mass shootings. In fact, I think to someone who wasn't already 100% on board with citizens carrying guns, the story shows the gun had little, if anything, to do with apprehending the criminal. There are much better examples of armed citizens stopping mass shootings.

Can we at least use a story where the citizen shot the killer on purpose?

Link Posted: 10/22/2016 10:38:23 AM EDT
[#14]
So, what car for running over murderer?

My daily is a pickup because mass=penetration, but I was thinking of switching to something smaller but with more capacity and velocity.
Link Posted: 10/22/2016 10:52:31 AM EDT
[#15]
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So, what car for running over murderer?

My daily is a pickup because mass=penetration, but I was thinking of switching to something smaller but with more capacity and velocity.
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Chick is extra.

Link Posted: 10/22/2016 10:54:13 AM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:


Its Hialeah. That's where Florida man was born.

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Quoted:
Am I reading this correctly, that he was on a BICYCLE?


Its Hialeah. That's where Florida man was born.



lol
Link Posted: 10/22/2016 11:03:09 AM EDT
[#17]
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Am I reading this correctly, that he was on a BICYCLE?
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I aw "saddle" and thought it might be a horse..


good warning shot, BTW.
Link Posted: 10/22/2016 11:07:19 AM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:


I aw "saddle" and thought it might be a horse..


good warning shot, BTW.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Am I reading this correctly, that he was on a BICYCLE?


I aw "saddle" and thought it might be a horse..


good warning shot, BTW.



Reminded me of this.  


Link Posted: 10/22/2016 11:44:29 AM EDT
[#19]

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Quoted:
I aw "saddle" and thought it might be a horse..





good warning shot, BTW.
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Quoted:



Quoted:

Am I reading this correctly, that he was on a BICYCLE?




I aw "saddle" and thought it might be a horse..





good warning shot, BTW.


Me too! Should have read the graphic first. Easiest kill, ever!



 
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