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Posted: 7/3/2012 5:46:24 PM EDT
I said that the libs won't be happy about the ruling either.


The actual analyzing of what will actually happen when the ruling is implemented is starting to happen.



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/07/03/odonnell_scotus_ruling_on_medicaid_is_most_important_part.html

I rarely agree with Lawerence O'Donnell, but he does a pretty good outlook of how the HC law is still fucked.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 5:50:25 PM EDT
[#1]
Why do you want us to listen to this jag off?
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 5:53:01 PM EDT
[#2]
LOL he does not like to do research for his reporting I guess he would rather just get what to report from the WH
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 5:54:26 PM EDT
[#3]
I'd rather hear the lamentations of their women.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 5:59:17 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Why do you want us to listen to this jag off?


Because sometimes libs (especially when they get paniced) they begin to tell the truth.


The vid shows exactly what he fears.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 6:06:14 PM EDT
[#5]
Odonnell: "oz noes, the states have a bunch of their ORIGINAL powers back!!"
since SCOTUS said the fed cannot with hold funds to get a state to do something... doesnt that open the door for a LOT of interesting things?


 
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 6:06:57 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
I'd rather hear the lamentations of their women.


Link Posted: 7/3/2012 6:09:27 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Odonnell: "oz noes, the states have a bunch of their ORIGINAL powers back!!"



since SCOTUS said the fed cannot with hold funds to get a state to do something... doesnt that open the door for a LOT of interesting things?
 



I'm telling you.  When people really start looking at this ruling and when stuff actually starts to happen because of it, the libs aren't going to be any happier than the Conservatives.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 6:16:41 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Odonnell: "oz noes, the states have a bunch of their ORIGINAL powers back!!"



since SCOTUS said the fed cannot with hold funds to get a state to do something... doesnt that open the door for a LOT of interesting things?
 



I'm telling you.  When people really start looking at this ruling and when stuff actually starts to happen because of it, the libs aren't going to be any happier than the Conservatives.


I have not read Scalia's dissent yet, but when I read Robert's opinion I thought he did what he said he would do in  his confirmation, call balls as fairly as he knew how.  The goverment has a broad ranging taxing power that they already use every day to encourage and discourage different behavior.  As he said it is  not up to him to fix the electorate's dumbass mistakes.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 6:18:44 PM EDT
[#9]
LOL... GD is full of lazy people.  Take the time to watch this.  The OP is right on.  Here is a liberal idiot who is telling the truth that although the SC did not strike down the ACA, they doomed it to failure.  It does not fix that fact that the Government now has the ability to tax non action, but it does hurt the ACA and maybe fatality.
 
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 6:53:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
I have not read Scalia's dissent yet, but when I read Robert's opinion I thought he did what he said he would do in  his confirmation, call balls as fairly as he knew how.  The goverment has a broad ranging taxing power that they already use every day to encourage and discourage different behavior.  As he said it is  not up to him to fix the electorate's dumbass mistakes.


Oh, puuhhleeeze - he legislated from the bench and rewrote the cottin' picken thing, read the law - it is a penalty, it says it is a penalty, it functions as a penalty, its purpose was to penalize.  The ruling is unconstitutional.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 7:29:09 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have not read Scalia's dissent yet, but when I read Robert's opinion I thought he did what he said he would do in  his confirmation, call balls as fairly as he knew how.  The goverment has a broad ranging taxing power that they already use every day to encourage and discourage different behavior.  As he said it is  not up to him to fix the electorate's dumbass mistakes.


Oh, puuhhleeeze - he legislated from the bench and rewrote the cottin' picken thing, read the law - it is a penalty, it says it is a penalty, it functions as a penalty, its purpose was to penalize.  The ruling is unconstitutional.


No, it was called a penalty so they didn't have to call it what it was, a tax.

Whenever the .gov takes your money and gives you nothing in return they are taxing you. Whatever they call it.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 7:32:16 PM EDT
[#12]
Sweet merciful Jesus, I don't know what to think anymore.

All I know is that I am still sick from the decision and so lividly pissed at Roberts that I could chew and spit nails....
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 7:32:33 PM EDT
[#13]
Just so we're clear, are we collectively deciding to pretend this was somehow a good ruling since Roberts issued it, or are we still based in reality at the moment, where the Supreme Court (and it's so called Conservative chief justice) fucked us all over?
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 7:37:58 PM EDT
[#14]
Gov Scott already issued our Medicaid tax increase waiver. Mitt will issue 50 State waivers. 51 to repeal and replace with tort reform and free open markets. We only need ? 3 or 4 senate seats with 22 rats up for the boot since it's a tax? I wonder if the cbo will double their last multi trillion estimate now. President no_budget is done. libs are coming.unglued. [/evilrepublicans]

randpaul.jpg
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 7:39:44 PM EDT
[#15]



Quoted:



Quoted:

Odonnell: "oz noes, the states have a bunch of their ORIGINAL powers back!!"
since SCOTUS said the fed cannot with hold funds to get a state to do something... doesnt that open the door for a LOT of interesting things?

 






I'm telling you.  When people really start looking at this ruling and when stuff actually starts to happen because of it, the libs aren't going to be any happier than the Conservatives.
I almost agree but I cant help but think they really want the socialism.

I dont think they know what that means though.





 
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 7:40:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Odonnell: "oz noes, the states have a bunch of their ORIGINAL powers back!!"



since SCOTUS said the fed cannot with hold funds to get a state to do something... doesnt that open the door for a LOT of interesting things?
 


Not exactly. I believe it said the feds can't threaten to take away funds already promised based on new laws. They can still use the same carrot and stick routine with highway funds and the like.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 7:42:11 PM EDT
[#17]





Quoted:



Just so we're clear, are we collectively deciding to pretend this was somehow a good ruling since Roberts issued it, or are we still based in reality at the moment, where the Supreme Court (and it's so called Conservative chief justice) fucked us all over?



no, just examining what roberts said about the fed not being allowed to withhold funds from states as a way to get them to do something.



what roberts did was idiotic and dangerous as far as most of it is concerned.  he allowed the us govt to tax u for simply living which makes the fake limitation on the commerce clause, useless.  what he did was make things worse as a whole and provide a couple crumbs to, in his eyes, prevent history from comparing him to the dredd scott court.





 
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 7:44:20 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Just so we're clear, are we collectively deciding to pretend this was somehow a good ruling since Roberts issued it, or are we still based in reality at the moment, where the Supreme Court (and it's so called Conservative chief justice) fucked us all over?


watch the video.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 7:45:40 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
I'd rather hear the lamentations of their women.


Link Posted: 7/3/2012 7:45:58 PM EDT
[#20]
I've been wondering why the lefties aren't bothered that it forces everyone to buy insurance from those 'evil' corporations. Unless they recognize that the ultimate goal is to put everyone under the government programs -which is what they really want anyway.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 7:54:32 PM EDT
[#21]



Quoted:


I've been wondering why the lefties aren't bothered that it forces everyone to buy insurance from those 'evil' corporations. Unless they recognize that the ultimate goal is to put everyone under the government programs -which is what they really want anyway.
I dont know if they are smart enough to see that or not.

They just think everyone "HAS THE RIGHT" to insurance.

Of course, I may be wrong.



 
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 7:57:49 PM EDT
[#22]
The TLDR for all you lazy people is this, The libs are pissed that the SCOTUS ruling has restored the ability for the states to reject crap from the feds without being penalized. Roberts's ruling has empowered the states to essentially nullify Obamacare by not implementing it in the first place.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 8:33:06 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Just so we're clear, are we collectively deciding to pretend this was somehow a good ruling since Roberts issued it, or are we still based in reality at the moment, where the Supreme Court (and it's so called Conservative chief justice) fucked us all over?


I'm not pretending anything.   I only deal with pure facts and logic.



 The ruling sucked.  But not just for us.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 8:55:34 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
No, it was called a penalty so they didn't have to call it what it was, a tax.

Whenever the .gov takes your money and gives you nothing in return they are taxing you. Whatever they call it.


No sir, you are misunderstanding this - your last sentence is created by the Court, the text of the statute is clear; the Court has no authority to legislate.  When the Court declared the mandate unconstitutional it is no law at all, it is as invalid as if it had never been passed.  There is nothing to apply a penalty to, or a tax.  The question before the Court is not, does Congress have the power to tax, but did it do so?  The answer is no, the mandate was unconstitutional, Congress intended in no uncertain terms to be a penalty, the Court may not legislate.  This is a breech of the separation of powers.

As to the Medicaid/Medicare provisions I haven't read that section of the opinion to determine if that is a created provision yet or not.  If it is, then the same rules above apply; if it's not then it is a positive ruling for Liberty as it undercuts Congress historical penchant of coercing states with threats of economic warfare. Hence, interposition becomes a means of defense, if this is "good" from that perspective, it is one for cowards that won't uphold their oaths of office.  Since they are cowards without principles, it's affect is limited.

Nevertheless, our system was intended, in its covenantal structure to insure that all affinity between State and Federal government secured and protected citizens rights; this heinous practice going on since the New Deal with our State's holding a sign that essentially says, "Citizens Liberty For Sale," and enjoining them in a combination in restraint of Constitutional Rights is unconscionable.
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 9:08:49 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Sweet merciful Jesus, I don't know what to think anymore.

All I know is that I am still sick from the decision and so lividly pissed at Roberts that I could chew and spit nails....


And if you were still a moderator you could do something about it.  

Link Posted: 7/3/2012 9:15:29 PM EDT
[#26]
"If 8 million people just lost health insurance."



How did that happen?  They didn't have it to begin with.  They haven't lost anything.   Fucking liberal lie.


 
Link Posted: 7/3/2012 9:18:17 PM EDT
[#27]



Quoted:



Quoted:

No, it was called a penalty so they didn't have to call it what it was, a tax.



Whenever the .gov takes your money and gives you nothing in return they are taxing you. Whatever they call it.





No sir, you are misunderstanding this - your last sentence is created by the Court, the text of the statute is clear; the Court has no authority to legislate.  When the Court declared the mandate unconstitutional it is no law at all, it is as invalid as if it had never been passed.  There is nothing to apply a penalty to, or a tax.  The question before the Court is not, does Congress have the power to tax, but did it do so?  The answer is no, the mandate was unconstitutional, Congress intended in no uncertain terms to be a penalty, the Court may not legislate.  This is a breech of the separation of powers.



As to the Medicaid/Medicare provisions I haven't read that section of the opinion to determine if that is a created provision yet or not.  If it is, then the same rules above apply; if it's not then it is a positive ruling for Liberty as it undercuts Congress historical penchant of coercing states with threats of economic warfare. Hence, interposition becomes a means of defense, if this is "good" from that perspective, it is one for cowards that won't uphold their oaths of office.  Since they are cowards without principles, it's affect is limited.



Nevertheless, our system was intended, in its covenantal structure to insure that all affinity between State and Federal government secured and protected citizens rights; this heinous practice going on since the New Deal with our State's holding a sign that essentially says, "Citizens Liberty For Sale," and enjoining them in a combination in restraint of Constitutional Rights is unconscionable.


On the "bright" side, a tax vote cannot be fillibustered.  So a repeal of this only requires 51 votes instead of 60.





 
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 6:48:18 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
No, it was called a penalty so they didn't have to call it what it was, a tax.

Whenever the .gov takes your money and gives you nothing in return they are taxing you. Whatever they call it.


No sir, you are misunderstanding this - your last sentence is created by the Court,


Well, it's damn, sad shame that SCOTUS has the tell Congress what is plain and simple common sense.

I can call my 10/22 a high power rifle, but it doesn't make it true. Congress can call it a fine, penalty, late fee, dikfer or a henway, but it's  still a TAX.

They did not legislate from the bench, they just called Congress on their lying.


Congress has the authority to TAX and SPEND. They don't have the authority to create penalties.

SCOTUS said, if you want the money, call it what it is, a TAX.



Link Posted: 7/4/2012 7:17:35 AM EDT
[#29]
Thanks for the link to that little ray of sunshine on this independence day
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 7:29:34 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
The ruling sucked.  But not just for us.

That, my internet friends, is the bottom line.

Having said that, if I had to choose a winner, it would be the libs by split decision. However, like S13 said, both fighters ended up hospitalized after the title bout.
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 7:49:50 AM EDT
[#31]
While I don't consider the ruling positive for our country in any capacity, it apparently helps draw a more definitive line in the sand between the States and the fed. I know where I stand, but to quote Master Chief Billy Sunday, "You know what the Chinese say, Cookie? Beware what you wish for."
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 8:21:11 AM EDT
[#32]
The one thing I'm waiting to hear is when the libs realize that Roberts' ruling means that the ACA can be overturned by a simple majority - being a tax bill passed in reconciliation, it isn't subject to the 2/3 majority requirement.

It will be absolutely hilarious if, come 2013 or 2014, the Dems take the overturning of the act to the SC arguing that the Bill they passed by a 'Deem and Pass' procedural vote requires a 2/3 majority to repeal.

It will be worth it just to see Ruth Bader Ginsburg contort logic into pretzel like knots to explain that.
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 8:34:40 AM EDT
[#33]
Who gives a fuck about the HC law?

The power to tax now includes the power to tax people for NOT doing something?  

Yay, what a win.

The desperate spin is getting a little bit dizzying.
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 8:37:48 AM EDT
[#34]
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 8:39:17 AM EDT
[#35]
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 8:48:39 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Who gives a fuck about the HC law?

The power to tax now includes the power to tax people for NOT doing something?  

Yay, what a win.

The desperate spin is getting a little bit dizzying.


Taxing based on behavior is nothing new.

Unmarried couples get taxed more for for not getting married, as one example.



Your analogy is flawed.  Though equally disgusting.

One is a tax break for a behavior.  The other is a tax on non-behavior.

Honestly, if this truly is no big deal, then fine.  Fuck it.  All hail the Federal Fucking Government.  Master of Life and Death.  All hail the goddamn police state.  I give up.

The concept of limited, enumerated powers is dead.  You might as well run a big sharpie through every part of the constitution except the taxation provision.
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 8:50:30 AM EDT
[#37]



Quoted:


LOL... GD is full of lazy people.  Take the time to watch this.  The OP is right on.  Here is a liberal idiot who is telling the truth that although the SC did not strike down the ACA, they doomed it to failure.  It does not fix that fact that the Government now has the ability to tax non action, but it does hurt the ACA and maybe fatality.  


Stop with your logic, it's knee-jerk time!





 
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 8:51:27 AM EDT
[#38]
That was six minutes that was worth watching.





Cutting to the chase...Obamacare is probably dead in every really meaningful way.  



26 states sued to stop the ACA.   Every state has the option to expand their state medicare coverage, or NOT expand it.



The 26 states that sued,  SOME of which are democratically held states, can be expected to NOT expand their medicare programs.



Even some states that weren't part of the original suits may choose not to expand their programs as well.



Any way you look at it,  Obama isn't going to get what he was hoping he'd get.





CJ
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 9:09:31 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Who gives a fuck about the HC law?

The power to tax now includes the power to tax people for NOT doing something?  

Yay, what a win.

The desperate spin is getting a little bit dizzying.


Read what I wrote.  This thread has nothing to do with spin from the right.
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 9:11:24 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Odonnell: "oz noes, the states have a bunch of their ORIGINAL powers back!!"



since SCOTUS said the fed cannot with hold funds to get a state to do something... doesnt that open the door for a LOT of interesting things?
 



I'm telling you.  When people really start looking at this ruling and when stuff actually starts to happen because of it, the libs aren't going to be any happier than the Conservatives.


I have not read Scalia's dissent yet, but when I read Robert's opinion I thought he did what he said he would do in  his confirmation, call balls as fairly as he knew how.  The goverment has a broad ranging taxing power that they already use every day to encourage and discourage different behavior.  As he said it is  not up to him to fix the electorate's dumbass mistakes.


Please tell me where the federal government can tax inactivity.  Roberts' reduced himself to a chimp humping a football.
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 9:17:41 AM EDT
[#41]
I'm becoming very numb to anything that happens in Washington DC these days. Time will only tell if these theories hold up or not and it will be a battle every election cycle in the states to keep from expanding Medicad.

My prediction? People will vote themselves more free shit eventually. B. Franklin was 100% correct when he said, "A republic, if you can keep it".

Link Posted: 7/4/2012 9:25:30 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Odonnell: "oz noes, the states have a bunch of their ORIGINAL powers back!!"



since SCOTUS said the fed cannot with hold funds to get a state to do something... doesnt that open the door for a LOT of interesting things?
 



I'm telling you.  When people really start looking at this ruling and when stuff actually starts to happen because of it, the libs aren't going to be any happier than the Conservatives.


I have not read Scalia's dissent yet, but when I read Robert's opinion I thought he did what he said he would do in  his confirmation, call balls as fairly as he knew how.  The goverment has a broad ranging taxing power that they already use every day to encourage and discourage different behavior.  As he said it is  not up to him to fix the electorate's dumbass mistakes.


Please tell me where the federal government can tax inactivity.  Roberts' reduced himself to a chimp humping a football.



Article I Sections 7 and 8.
The power to tax is very broad.

Got it.  You don't like it.
I think you should bitch more on the internet.  That should help.
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 9:50:01 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Who gives a fuck about the HC law?

The power to tax now includes the power to tax people for NOT doing something?  

Yay, what a win.

The desperate spin is getting a little bit dizzying.


This is BS.  Would you feel better if I said that everyone with insurance got a tax cut and those without didn't get the cut.  It's the same thing.  They would be taxing you at a higher rate for not getting insurance.  I think Roberts is wrong but I don't get to pick.

Link Posted: 7/4/2012 9:58:39 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
I'd rather hear the lamentations of their women.


Link Posted: 7/4/2012 10:03:17 AM EDT
[#45]
disregard.
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 10:06:34 AM EDT
[#46]
Fuck Roberts.
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 10:09:34 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Fuck Roberts.


I agree, but this thread is not about Roberts.
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 10:26:10 AM EDT
[#48]
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 10:27:53 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Quoted:

My prediction? People will vote themselves more free shit eventually. B. Franklin was 100% correct when he said, "A republic, if you can keep it".



And some people think the Founding Fathers were "stupid farmers" with little or no vision of the future.


actually, very few people think that.

Most who are critical think they were elitist, rich slave owners.

On the first two, they are largely correct, and on the last partially correct.

regardless, they were geniuses.
Link Posted: 7/4/2012 10:30:10 AM EDT
[#50]




Quoted:



Quoted:



Quoted:

Odonnell: "oz noes, the states have a bunch of their ORIGINAL powers back!!"
since SCOTUS said the fed cannot with hold funds to get a state to do something... doesnt that open the door for a LOT of interesting things?







I'm telling you. When people really start looking at this ruling and when stuff actually starts to happen because of it, the libs aren't going to be any happier than the Conservatives.




I have not read Scalia's dissent yet, but when I read Robert's opinion I thought he did what he said he would do in his confirmation, call balls as fairly as he knew how. The goverment has a broad ranging taxing power that they already use every day to encourage and discourage different behavior. As he said it is not up to him to fix the electorate's dumbass mistakes.


What he said about taxes is true.  However, the case was not about a "tax", it was about a penalty.  He had to do backflips through several hoops, and ignore the letter of the law and the words spoken during the debate, in order to reach his conclusion.  That's what makes him wrong, and an asshole.



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