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Posted: 9/3/2004 8:27:26 AM EST
I got back two weeks ago from a trip to Dallas, TX to visit some family. On the last day there we went to the Book Despoitory Building where Oswald shot JKF. I looked through the window and saw the "shots" he would have fired. And we heard all about the conspiricy and the second "CIA" shooter and whatnot leading you to believe that someone else fired a shot...but sadly yet truthfully...I could have made 3 shots from there and scored equel hits...with just normal shooting and hunting practice.

What do you guys think? Anyone been there and seen the place? Did he do it alone or with someone?

Just curious to see what other people thought about it.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:29:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2004 8:30:45 AM EST by StariVojnik]
+1


Even with an AK, my granny (if she were alive) could have tagged him.

Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:31:15 AM EST
Coulda, woulda, whatever.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:31:19 AM EST
What I also thought was (funny?) was that leading up to the spot I heard so much about what a far shot it was and how amazing it was and how he couldn't have done THAT alone...but when I got there it was what...200ft? I thought to myself "I could have done it with a handgun"
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:32:39 AM EST
the shots are very do-able........

that said, I still think oswald did not act alone, there's too much evidence, albeit circumstancial, that there was indeed, a conspiracy
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:33:10 AM EST
200 feet ain't shit for a rifle.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:33:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By ironoxbows:
the shots are very do-able........

that said, I still think oswald did not act alone, there's too much evidence, albeit circumstancial, that there was indeed, a conspiracy

+1
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:35:03 AM EST
ahh... but could you have done it with a POS scoped carcano?
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:37:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By NAM:
ahh... but could you have done it with a POS scoped carcano?




A lot of gun snobs think the AK is a POS too! And I can hit a target on a dime everytime.


Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:37:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By NAM:
ahh... but could you have done it with a POS scoped carcano?


Yep.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:39:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By NAM:
ahh... but could you have done it with a POS scoped carcano?




check out this article from the April '04 issue of Guns......pretty interesting

The Overlooked Carcanos

Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:40:52 AM EST
I thought he was shot from that book "suppository" building?
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:41:00 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:41:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By NAM:
ahh... but could you have done it with a POS scoped carcano?



Didn't you know, everybody on the Internet shoots 1" groups at 100 yards with snubbie revolvers. They could have taken out JFK, the vice pres, AND the security detail with the Carcano, and still have time to smoke a cigarette before getting caught!
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:43:17 AM EST
I went to the Book Depository Museum last year.....I remember standing in the window looking down on the "x" on the street thinking that it looked a lot closer than I thought it would be.

Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:45:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By SNorman:

Originally Posted By NAM:
ahh... but could you have done it with a POS scoped carcano?



Didn't you know, everybody on the Internet shoots 1" groups at 100 yards with snubbie revolvers. They could have taken out JFK, the vice pres, AND the security detail with the Carcano, and still have time to smoke a cigarette before getting caught!



Don't forget, gota run down several flights of stairs and grab a soda first before being caught ;)
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:47:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2004 8:48:10 AM EST by Just_Some_Guy]

Originally Posted By Sweep:
No one has ever been able to duplicate it with the same type rifle that Oswald supposedly used.

I've read a lot about this and my theory is that Oswald was one of three that were shooting and Oswald didn't hit crap. Also believe that the assassins were suppose to take Oswald out when the secret service fired back...which they didn't do, hence his being shot by Ruby later on.

From all that I have read, there was the guy not only on the grassy knoll, but another guy in another building to the left of Oswald's position.

All in all, we'll never know what really happened or who did it but it's topic that will probably never die.


Actually, it was duplicated. I've read quite a bit about it, too and visited the Sixth Floor Museum in Dallas many times.

If this was such an all-inclusive conspiracy that was bold enough to bump off an American President in broad daylight, then why hide? A conspiracy of that magnitude is obviously not afraid of anything.

What it comes down to is nobody wants to believe that some halfwit, like Lee Oswald, could kill a person as powerful and important as the President. He couldn't hold a job, he couldn't complete a Marine enlistment, and he couldn't even hack communism, but he did do this one thing. He did it, by himself, GET OVER IT.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:47:56 AM EST
I have been to the Book Depository, too. I was amazed at how close the shots were taken. Like you, my first reaction was, "Damn, even I could hit that."

During the Maryland "sniper" shootings, one of our talking heads stood in a parking lot and then had the camera man zoom out to show what a person looked like at 100 yards. The sniper was making these "incredible" shots at long range. I thought, "Sheesh, 100 yards ain't shit with any kind of rifle, especially an AR-15."

It just goes to show you that the general public has no concept of ballistic capabilities of any gun at any range because they have absolutely no experience shooting. Sad really.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:51:30 AM EST

No one has ever been able to duplicate it with the same type rifle that Oswald supposedly used.


I saw a reenactment on discovery. They had a towed car and the shooter fired at the mannequins in it from a scaffold at the same height as the TBD. They used the same kind of gun and mil surplus ammo. There were some failures to fire attributed to the ammo, but when the ammo worked the shooter was able to replicate Oswald's feat.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:55:23 AM EST
I think.... ah hell, I have too many opinions on this. I'd just be rehashing what everyone else already thinks. My doing so would'nt help solve any mystery, just add to it.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:56:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By Just_Some_Guy:
[What it comes down to is nobody wants to believe that some halfwit, like Lee Oswald, could kill a person as powerful and important as the President. He couldn't hold a job, he couldn't complete a Marine enlistment, and he couldn't even hack communism, but he did do this one thing. He did it, by himself, GET OVER IT.



If oswald acted alone, shooting from behind the motorcade, why does the zapruder film show the president's head moving {kevin costner on} back and to the left, back and to the left {keving costner off}????

Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:59:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By ironoxbows:

Originally Posted By Just_Some_Guy:
[What it comes down to is nobody wants to believe that some halfwit, like Lee Oswald, could kill a person as powerful and important as the President. He couldn't hold a job, he couldn't complete a Marine enlistment, and he couldn't even hack communism, but he did do this one thing. He did it, by himself, GET OVER IT.



If oswald acted alone, shooting from behind the motorcade, why does the zapruder film show the president's head moving {kevin costner on} back and to the left, back and to the left {keving costner off}????




The jet of blood and brains exiting JFK's head caused a recoil effect...
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:59:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By ironoxbows:

Originally Posted By Just_Some_Guy:
[What it comes down to is nobody wants to believe that some halfwit, like Lee Oswald, could kill a person as powerful and important as the President. He couldn't hold a job, he couldn't complete a Marine enlistment, and he couldn't even hack communism, but he did do this one thing. He did it, by himself, GET OVER IT.



If oswald acted alone, shooting from behind the motorcade, why does the zapruder film show the president's head moving {kevin costner on} back and to the left, back and to the left {keving costner off}????


Too many Oliver Stone movies rot the soul.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:59:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By Just_Some_Guy:
What it comes down to is nobody wants to believe that some halfwit, like Lee Oswald, could kill a person as powerful and important as the President. He couldn't hold a job, he couldn't complete a Marine enlistment, and he couldn't even hack communism, but he did do this one thing. He did it, by himself, GET OVER IT.



EXACTLY!!!
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:01:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By ironoxbows:

If oswald acted alone, shooting from behind the motorcade, why does the zapruder film show the president's head moving {kevin costner on} back and to the left, back and to the left {keving costner off}????




That's my beef. Why is the back of JFKs head blown off if the shot was from behind? Answer: No fookin way that shot came from the book depository.

Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:06:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By TWIRE:

Originally Posted By ironoxbows:

If oswald acted alone, shooting from behind the motorcade, why does the zapruder film show the president's head moving {kevin costner on} back and to the left, back and to the left {keving costner off}????




That's my beef. Why is the back of JFKs head blown off if the shot was from behind? Answer: No fookin way that shot came from the book depository.


Answer: you're too easily led.

Part of the fuel for these conspiracy theories has been provided by the Kennedy family's obsessive desire for privacy and the piss-poor forensics of the day. Add to that the ham-handed investigation, first by the Dallas PD (remember the film of them handling all of the evidence for the press when Kennedy's body was barely cold?) and then the Warren Commission, and you have plenty of stuff to contemplate in books and stupid movies for 40+ years.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:07:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By Just_Some_Guy:


Too many Oliver Stone movies rot the soul.


the soul may be rotten, but the eyes are wide open
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:08:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By ironoxbows:

Originally Posted By Just_Some_Guy:


Too many Oliver Stone movies rot the soul.


the soul may be rotten, but the eyes are wide open


Okay, then don't watch crap with your open eyes.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:10:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By TWIRE:

Originally Posted By ironoxbows:

If oswald acted alone, shooting from behind the motorcade, why does the zapruder film show the president's head moving {kevin costner on} back and to the left, back and to the left {keving costner off}????




That's my beef. Why is the back of JFKs head blown off if the shot was from behind? Answer: No fookin way that shot came from the book depository.




That and the magic bullet theory where a single round made multiple 90 degree turns.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:11:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By Just_Some_Guy:
[.


Answer: you're too easily led.

Part of the fuel for these conspiracy theories has been provided by the Kennedy family's obsessive desire for privacy and the piss-poor forensics of the day. Add to that the ham-handed investigation, first by the Dallas PD (remember the film of them handling all of the evidence for the press when Kennedy's body was barely cold?) and then the Warren Commission, and you have plenty of stuff to contemplate in books and stupid movies for 40+ years.


the last thing I wanted was for this to get personal
yes the Dallas PD blew it, and the warren commission was by in large a joke.......
However, for one to believe that our government fully discloses everything it knows to common citizens is ludacris. Kennedy made some mistakes, he was invloved with some shady characters. In the course of his administration he made some choices, choices that got people hurt and in the end, he paid for it.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:14:31 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:19:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:24:37 AM EST
Penn and Teller did a good little test in their "How to Play With Your Food" book. They took some melons, wrapped 'em in fiberglass tape to skull thickness, and shot them with a Carcano. Every one that moved did so TOWARDS the rifle. You've got a small entry hole, and a large exit hole. The gunk blasting out the exit hole moved the head (or melon) in the opposite direction, ie: toward the rifle.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:31:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sweep:

Originally Posted By Just_Some_Guy:

Originally Posted By Sweep:
No one has ever been able to duplicate it with the same type rifle that Oswald supposedly used.

I've read a lot about this and my theory is that Oswald was one of three that were shooting and Oswald didn't hit crap. Also believe that the assassins were suppose to take Oswald out when the secret service fired back...which they didn't do, hence his being shot by Ruby later on.

From all that I have read, there was the guy not only on the grassy knoll, but another guy in another building to the left of Oswald's position.

All in all, we'll never know what really happened or who did it but it's topic that will probably never die.


Actually, it was duplicated. I've read quite a bit about it, too and visited the Sixth Floor Museum in Dallas many times.



When and by who? I've never heard about it, but then again I really lost interest in this around '92. Was it done after that?


If this was such an all-inclusive conspiracy that was bold enough to bump off an American President in broad daylight, then why hide? A conspiracy of that magnitude is obviously not afraid of anything.

What it comes down to is nobody wants to believe that some halfwit, like Lee Oswald, could kill a person as powerful and important as the President. He couldn't hold a job, he couldn't complete a Marine enlistment, and he couldn't even hack communism, but he did do this one thing. He did it, by himself, GET OVER IT.



Still don't believe Oswald acted alone. Too many things just don't add up.


You've already been provided with one duplication. It was also demonstrated on television by the NRA in 1967.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:42:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2004 9:43:54 AM EST by JoeTexas]
in ref to the magic bullet - that was explained in a history or discovery channel documentary. everyone has always assumed that the car they were in was a normal car. in the documentary they pointed out that Gov Connelly was sitting on a small jump set that was aligned more towards the center of the car than towards the door. If that was indeed the case then the angle of the shot lines up perfectly.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:16:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By JoeTexas:
in ref to the magic bullet - that was explained in a history or discovery channel documentary. everyone has always assumed that the car they were in was a normal car. in the documentary they pointed out that Gov Connelly was sitting on a small jump set that was aligned more towards the center of the car than towards the door. If that was indeed the case then the angle of the shot lines up perfectly.



I have heard that.

Kind of a shitty question to ask, but is there a website or link that shows the actual video?

Also, who was the guy on the grassy knol? Was he ever found or what ever happen to him?
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:22:00 AM EST
All I know is that JFK would still be alive today had Ackbar been around.

He died in a Trap.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:26:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By wedge1082:
All I know is that JFK would still be alive today had Ackbar been around.


Probably not. Addison's Disease would have killed him.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:27:26 AM EST
very true
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:31:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2004 10:31:56 AM EST by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 10:35:37 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 11:03:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By TWIRE:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By ironoxbows:

If oswald acted alone, shooting from behind the motorcade, why does the zapruder film show the president's head moving {kevin costner on} back and to the left, back and to the left {keving costner off}????



President Kennedy had a weak back and often wore a brace. Could this brace have affected the way the body and head reacted to being shot from behind?

Link Posted: 9/3/2004 11:13:31 AM EST
OMG! Kennedys been shot?
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 2:34:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
OMG! Kennedys been shot?

What will we do with Viet Nam now? Escalate and have us Democrats called War Mongers, or Get Out and be called Weak on Communism?
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 2:36:11 PM EST
PS: It was a suicide. As I was in the 3rd Grade*, I ought to know.

*Yikes! Has it been That long?!?
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 4:00:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2004 4:06:10 PM EST by gregw45]

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Here are the best views of both wounds, including the 'head shot' that shows that the final bullet came from behind Kennedy!



Jeez. Not that I'm going to change anyone's mind, but this DVD has much better views. 5 hours long including first hand accounts of people that were there - even at the autopsy who saw the back of his head blown out.

Sorry Eric, blood spray does exit towards the shooter. The links you posted prove nothing.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 4:06:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By gregw45:

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Here are the best views of both wounds, including the 'head shot' that shows that the final bullet came from behind Kennedy!



Jeez. Not that I'm going to change anyone's mind, but this DVD has much better views. 5 hours long including first hand accounts of people that were there - even at the autopsy who saw the back of his head blown out.

Sorry Eric, blood spray does exit towards the shooter. The links you posted prove nothing.

Actually your link doesn't prove anything. It's junk science promoted by nutjobs.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 4:07:40 PM EST
Oswald from the Book Depository with the Mannlicher carbine.
I agree. I could have made those shots also.

Those of you who buy into all the bullshit theories should quit being led around by the nose by a bunch of charlatans. Look at the info objectively without someone telling you what to believe and the truth will be known to you.

Now, is it plausible that there was some form of conspiracy? Sure. But Oswald assassinated JFK.
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 5:00:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By Just_Some_Guy:
Actually your link doesn't prove anything. It's junk science promoted by nutjobs.



My link points to a DVD for sale. Who are these nutjobs you speak of?
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 5:04:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By Just_Some_Guy:

Originally Posted By Sweep:
No one has ever been able to duplicate it with the same type rifle that Oswald supposedly used.

I've read a lot about this and my theory is that Oswald was one of three that were shooting and Oswald didn't hit crap. Also believe that the assassins were suppose to take Oswald out when the secret service fired back...which they didn't do, hence his being shot by Ruby later on.

From all that I have read, there was the guy not only on the grassy knoll, but another guy in another building to the left of Oswald's position.

All in all, we'll never know what really happened or who did it but it's topic that will probably never die.


Actually, it was duplicated. I've read quite a bit about it, too and visited the Sixth Floor Museum in Dallas many times.

If this was such an all-inclusive conspiracy that was bold enough to bump off an American President in broad daylight, then why hide? A conspiracy of that magnitude is obviously not afraid of anything.

What it comes down to is nobody wants to believe that some halfwit, like Lee Oswald, could kill a person as powerful and important as the President. He couldn't hold a job, he couldn't complete a Marine enlistment, and he couldn't even hack communism, but he did do this one thing. He did it, by himself, GET OVER IT.




+1
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 5:11:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2004 5:22:31 PM EST by zepp]

Originally Posted By Rem700PSS:

Originally Posted By JoeTexas:
in ref to the magic bullet - that was explained in a history or discovery channel documentary. everyone has always assumed that the car they were in was a normal car. in the documentary they pointed out that Gov Connelly was sitting on a small jump set that was aligned more towards the center of the car than towards the door. If that was indeed the case then the angle of the shot lines up perfectly.



I have heard that.

Kind of a shitty question to ask, but is there a website or link that shows the actual video?

Also, who was the guy on the grassy knol? Was he ever found or what ever happen to him?


home.comcast.net/~donfernandez/JFKassasination.avi
www.celebritymorgue.com/jfk/jfk-autopsy.html
here's every frame: including the grassy knolwww.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/
www.jfkmurdersolved.com/film/AbrahamZapruderFilm.ram
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