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Posted: 9/30/2011 7:07:39 PM EST
http://www.lexingtoninstitute.org/the-hidden-cost-of-military-depots?a=1&c=1171

The Hidden Costs Of Military Depots

Author: Loren B. Thompson, Ph.D.
Date: Friday, September 30, 2011

Over the last ten years, the defense department's maintenance depots, shipyards and logistics centers have worked hard to reinvent themselves while supporting warfighters engaged in fighting overseas conflicts. Most people associated with the public-sector logistics system will tell you the facilities are better run and more productive today than at any other time in recent memory. Some observers even think they are more efficient than private-sector sources of technical services.

Whether that is true or not, there are larger reasons to suspect that the military's organic repair facilities are an unnecessary drain on the economy and therefore need to shrink markedly in the years ahead.


Pretty interesting article. I admit I know nothing about the military's system of depots, what they're for, how many there are, etc.

Anyone have any counter-arguments?
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 11:35:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By All_Beef_Patty:
http://www.lexingtoninstitute.org/the-hidden-cost-of-military-depots?a=1&c=1171

The Hidden Costs Of Military Depots

Author: Loren B. Thompson, Ph.D.
Date: Friday, September 30, 2011

Over the last ten years, the defense department's maintenance depots, shipyards and logistics centers have worked hard to reinvent themselves while supporting warfighters engaged in fighting overseas conflicts. Most people associated with the public-sector logistics system will tell you the facilities are better run and more productive today than at any other time in recent memory. Some observers even think they are more efficient than private-sector sources of technical services.

Whether that is true or not, there are larger reasons to suspect that the military's organic repair facilities are an unnecessary drain on the economy and therefore need to shrink markedly in the years ahead.


Pretty interesting article. I admit I know nothing about the military's system of depots, what they're for, how many there are, etc.

Anyone have any counter-arguments?

Part in red? Proof Guy was talking out of his ass, because most of the stuff is run by civilian contractors.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 11:37:24 PM EST
Originally Posted By Madcap72:

Originally Posted By All_Beef_Patty:
http://www.lexingtoninstitute.org/the-hidden-cost-of-military-depots?a=1&c=1171

The Hidden Costs Of Military Depots

Author: Loren B. Thompson, Ph.D.
Date: Friday, September 30, 2011

Over the last ten years, the defense department's maintenance depots, shipyards and logistics centers have worked hard to reinvent themselves while supporting warfighters engaged in fighting overseas conflicts. Most people associated with the public-sector logistics system will tell you the facilities are better run and more productive today than at any other time in recent memory. Some observers even think they are more efficient than private-sector sources of technical services.

Whether that is true or not, there are larger reasons to suspect that the military's organic repair facilities are an unnecessary drain on the economy and therefore need to shrink markedly in the years ahead.


Pretty interesting article. I admit I know nothing about the military's system of depots, what they're for, how many there are, etc.

Anyone have any counter-arguments?

Part in red? Proof Guy was talking out of his ass, because most of the stuff is run by civilian contractors.


+1. Nothing in government is ever run more efficently than the private sector.

Link Posted: 9/30/2011 11:43:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 11:44:05 PM EST by JustaGunNut]
Originally Posted By Madcap72:

Originally Posted By All_Beef_Patty:
http://www.lexingtoninstitute.org/the-hidden-cost-of-military-depots?a=1&c=1171

The Hidden Costs Of Military Depots

Author: Loren B. Thompson, Ph.D.
Date: Friday, September 30, 2011

Over the last ten years, the defense department's maintenance depots, shipyards and logistics centers have worked hard to reinvent themselves while supporting warfighters engaged in fighting overseas conflicts. Most people associated with the public-sector logistics system will tell you the facilities are better run and more productive today than at any other time in recent memory. Some observers even think they are more efficient than private-sector sources of technical services.

Whether that is true or not, there are larger reasons to suspect that the military's organic repair facilities are an unnecessary drain on the economy and therefore need to shrink markedly in the years ahead.


Pretty interesting article. I admit I know nothing about the military's system of depots, what they're for, how many there are, etc.

Anyone have any counter-arguments?

Part in red? Proof Guy was talking out of his ass, because most of the stuff is run by civilian contractors.


But it isn't private sector, just because there are contractors working on it. So that statement could be true.
Link Posted: 9/30/2011 11:51:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2011 11:51:26 PM EST by JBlitzen]
The Hidden Costs of Spare Magazines

Over the last ten years, the police department's spare magazines and other reloads have seen numerous improvements in order to support crimefighters engaged in fighting domestic conflicts. Most people associated with the public-sector logistics system will tell you the magazines are better designed and more reliable today than at any other time in recent memory. Some observers even think they are more efficient than cartons of ammunition.

Whether that is true or not, there are larger reasons to suspect that the police officers organic ammunition devices are an unnecessary drain on the economy and therefore need to shrink markedly in the years ahead.

ETA: In sum, what a douche.
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 12:01:46 AM EST
So, some Ph.D. from some half-assed "institute" is gonna tell us all how it is, and why we should do away with everything military?

Sheeeit.
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 12:04:50 AM EST
Let's privatise the military
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 12:19:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By nukldragr:
Let's privatise the military


Blackwater, DynCorp

Link Posted: 10/1/2011 12:29:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By Tim_the_enchanter:
Originally Posted By nukldragr:
Let's privatise the military


Blackwater, DynCorp



I mean completely
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 5:31:42 AM EST
I spent some time at an Army Depot while I was in the Army and i saw a lot of civilians being very inefficient. This was during the First Gulf War. I don't know what they're like now but back then I was not impressed.
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 5:33:51 AM EST
Tracy Depot should be razed.
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 5:40:00 AM EST

<–––––––––– With all the bitching about military spending lately, can't wait till the U.S. starts outsourcing THAT to Mexico too.
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 5:42:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By nukldragr:
Let's privatise the military

Fuckin A! Can I get a Letter of Marque?
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 5:43:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By Tim_the_enchanter:
Originally Posted By nukldragr:
Let's privatise the military


Blackwater, DynCorp



1st Wackenhut Infantry Division.

$9/hr. Now hiring.

Link Posted: 10/1/2011 5:54:40 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 5:58:36 AM EST
GD never disappoints - massive FAIL at reading comprehension.

Military depots are poorly run, expensive and often miss delivery schedules without repercussion (.gov bureaucrats will never blow the whistle on themselves). In other words, its .gov bureaucrats doing a shitty job for the warfighter.

The contractor's factory can perform the same service at lower cost and shorter schedule (money saved can be used to buy more spares to keep availability rates high). This is exactly what happens with F-22 depot modifications. The easy mods go to Ogden ALC and the hard mods go to the factory. The factory does the hard mods cheaper and faster than Ogden does the easy mods. This isn't an isolated incident, but has been repeated dozens of times over the past few years.
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 6:22:44 AM EST
Our organization currently warehouses and distributes military (personal equipment) gear.

We are pending two new contracts that are part of "re-purposing" depots, and consolidating logistics centers.

These contracts are expected to save the D.O.D.

<Dr. EVIL>....ONE BILLION DOLLARS....</Dr.EVIL>

over 5 years.
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 6:25:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By nukldragr:
Let's privatise the military



I'll take a part time job.


But then again........ Driving to Iraq every morning would get old really fast.






Link Posted: 10/1/2011 7:57:17 AM EST
I'm quite familar with Corpus Christi Army depot. It's located on the Corpus Christi Naval Air Station. (CCNAS) They repair helicopters for the Army.

I don't think there is a single active duty soldier on the whole base. Purely civilian contractors.
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 8:03:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By Plumbata:
I'm quite familar with Corpus Christi Army depot. It's located on the Corpus Christi Naval Air Station. (CCNAS) They repair helicopters for the Army.

I don't think there is a single active duty soldier on the whole base. Purely civilian contractors.


Fail.

Most of them are government service. Command structure is all active military.
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 8:07:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By broken_reticle:
Originally Posted By Plumbata:
I'm quite familar with Corpus Christi Army depot. It's located on the Corpus Christi Naval Air Station. (CCNAS) They repair helicopters for the Army.

I don't think there is a single active duty soldier on the whole base. Purely civilian contractors.


Fail.

Most of them are government service. Command structure is all active military.
Yup. Government service. And they know they won't be fired, so they have no incentive to do a good job.

Link Posted: 10/1/2011 8:10:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By DnPRK:

Originally Posted By broken_reticle:
Originally Posted By Plumbata:
I'm quite familar with Corpus Christi Army depot. It's located on the Corpus Christi Naval Air Station. (CCNAS) They repair helicopters for the Army.

I don't think there is a single active duty soldier on the whole base. Purely civilian contractors.


Fail.

Most of them are government service. Command structure is all active military.
Yup. Government service. And they know they won't be fired, so they have no incentive to do a good job.




Naw, I heard they have a union to make sure everything runs very efficiently.

The sad part is I am familiar with some of the private industries that do government work. Its not much more efficient there. There is not a free market system in place really, so why should it?
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 8:15:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By Tim_the_enchanter:
Originally Posted By nukldragr:
Let's privatise the military


Blackwater, DynCorp



1st Wackenhut Infantry Division.

$9/hr. Now hiring.



I see what you did there...
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 8:25:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By BKC1869:
I spent some time at an Army Depot while I was in the Army and i saw a lot of civilians being very inefficient. This was during the First Gulf War. I don't know what they're like now but back then I was not impressed.


If i'm not mistaken, a lot of those "civilian employees' are actually government union guys.
that would explain the inefficiency that you noticed.
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 8:30:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By LightningII:
Originally Posted By BKC1869:
I spent some time at an Army Depot while I was in the Army and i saw a lot of civilians being very inefficient. This was during the First Gulf War. I don't know what they're like now but back then I was not impressed.


If i'm not mistaken, a lot of those "civilian employees' are actually government union guys.
that would explain the inefficiency that you noticed.

Explains plenty.
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 8:33:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By LightningII:
Originally Posted By BKC1869:
I spent some time at an Army Depot while I was in the Army and i saw a lot of civilians being very inefficient. This was during the First Gulf War. I don't know what they're like now but back then I was not impressed.


If i'm not mistaken, a lot of those "civilian employees' are actually government union guys.
that would explain the inefficiency that you noticed.


I always figured they were unionized because of the frequent breaks, long lunches, and no weekend work.
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 8:45:10 AM EST
I really don't think that Ford, or Chevy would be willing to send their employees into harms way.




Impeach Obama for the Good of the Democrats.
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 9:16:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By DnPRK:

Originally Posted By broken_reticle:
Originally Posted By Plumbata:
I'm quite familar with Corpus Christi Army depot. It's located on the Corpus Christi Naval Air Station. (CCNAS) They repair helicopters for the Army.

I don't think there is a single active duty soldier on the whole base. Purely civilian contractors.


Fail.

Most of them are government service. Command structure is all active military.
Yup. Government service. And they know they won't be fired, so they have no incentive to do a good job.



Holy flying fuck! Did you really just say that? Seriously???!! Please, tell me that was sarcasm.
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 9:22:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By LightningII:
Originally Posted By BKC1869:
I spent some time at an Army Depot while I was in the Army and i saw a lot of civilians being very inefficient. This was during the First Gulf War. I don't know what they're like now but back then I was not impressed.


If i'm not mistaken, a lot of those "civilian employees' are actually government union guys.
that would explain the inefficiency that you noticed.


Most of them are probably veterans too. More inefficiency.
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 9:23:12 AM EST
It's fine and good to step back, analyze the situation, and make changes that will improve operation while reducing costs.

The problem is finding someone impartial to do that. I don't think impartial decisions are possible on those matters right now.
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 12:14:12 PM EST
I work in a depot, I'm a civilian .gov employee and retired military. I am not part of the union although there is one and most non-vets are members of the union. I currently work in a partnership program on the F-22. Al I'll say about that is, contractors aren't always the most efficient way of doing a job either. When it comes to the depot as a whole, for every new workload that comes in we had to bid on the work and prove we are better, faster, cheaper than outsourcing. We also have to compete against the other Air Force depots for work. A lot of the lazy, inefficient, dead wood type employees have been here over 30 years and have never held another job. Alot of them are headed out the door now with early retirements or separation money due to draw downs. I have been on the receiveing end of contractor support and don't believe it's worth the trouble because of extra documentation and the way the service contract system is set up. All contracts are one year contracts with up to four options to renew. It's almost guaranteed that when the time comes to rebid in 5 years a different company wil get the contract. Sure a lot of times the employes just roll over to the new contractor. It's usually with a pay cut or reduction in benefits though. At this poiint the employees are just happy to have a job so they take it, but that doesn't they are happy or willing to work as hard as they did before. No matter who does the work or supplies the service someone will claim they can do it better and lobby for to change tehway it's done. One advantage to keeping the depots is that we aren't going anywhere unless the .gov shuts us down. Contractors can fail at any time.
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