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Posted: 10/24/2009 12:02:41 AM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 10/24/2009 12:06:18 AM EDT
[#2]
It isn't all they claim. That bullshit about firing it with water in the barrel? And then make the claim it is because of the piston? BULLSHIT. It is the CHAMBER and THROAT. Which make is much less accurate and takes another 150 FPS off the velocity. The magic? Throat is way large and a LOT of gas bypasses the bullet, clearing the bore ahead of the bullet.
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Posted: 10/24/2009 12:09:47 AM EDT
[#3]
From personal experience, the piston system really is a good one, and is a few steps ahead of just about every other piston design out there. It's partially self regulating and the system is reliable.
My only problem is that the fucker has a SHARP recoil and rattles my fucking teeth in full auto.... 
While OK to shoot semi, I can't stand it in FA. |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 12:14:02 AM EDT
[#4]
difference: $
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Posted: 10/24/2009 12:22:18 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
But how is it different from any other piston AR? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile About 2 grand more...and 10 times inaccurate due to more moving parts! All piston driven Ar uppers are Efin POS...Direct impingement is the way it was designed.. The more moving parts the more shit can get broke..With the exception of the AK and Fal... My theory...If it isn't broken...don't fuck with it! |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 12:29:07 AM EDT
[#6]
The best piston AR out there is made by Robinson Arms.
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Posted: 10/24/2009 12:42:56 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
The best piston AR out there is made by Robinson Arms.
GI Joe Approves of this message 
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Posted: 10/24/2009 12:44:28 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
It isn't all they claim. That bullshit about firing it with water in the barrel? And then make the claim it is because of the piston? BULLSHIT. It is the CHAMBER and THROAT. Which make is much less accurate and takes another 150 FPS off the velocity. The magic? Throat is way large and a LOT of gas bypasses the bullet, clearing the bore ahead of the bullet. I thought they claimed that it was the bolt that allowed the pressure to escape from water in the barrel. I watched the History Channel show on the M16. They had the H&K guys in a few clips. Also had a dipshit explain the an AK47 AP round was designed to penetrate through a TANK, so just imagine how little resistance a car would offer. LOL
I recorded it on the DVR, I may check it again Saturday. Be cautioned, I have been wrong before. Bill |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 12:56:28 AM EDT
[#9]
That shit on History Channel was just a RCH above their stupid monster shit. How would a bolt change the pressure in the barrel? Those idiots saying that bull don't know ANY of the engineering, they are salesmen. If you look at high speed video of the MUZZLE when each is fired, you can see it. The 416 sprays a lot of crap out BEFORE the bullet. This is very similar to Glocks and other AquaBump verified uber-operator geek hardware that will shoot underwater.
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Posted: 10/24/2009 12:58:58 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
The best piston AR out there is made by Robinson Arms.
Armalite made a good one also.
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Posted: 10/24/2009 1:21:32 AM EDT
[#11]
it has one of HK's awesome polygonal barrels too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygonal_rifling cool concept, I have no clue if it's worth the extra money for civilian ownership I am however a long time away from buying anything HK, I've been planing my AR15 build since I joined this site and still haven't gotten past buying a stripped lower!  (lack of income)
also, this may be a retarded question, but couldn't you have the piston system on the underside of the barrel and bend the gas tubing to the top to reduce recoil during full auto? I can post an image if no one understands my crazy idea |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 1:31:43 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: Quoted: The best piston AR out there is made by Robinson Arms. GI Joe Approves of this message http://www.sideshowtoy.com/mas_assets/jpg/2613_press05-001.jpg They have GIJoe PMAGS!?!  |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 1:39:44 AM EDT
[#13]
The only thing that sucks is that the civilian version (MR223 or whatever it's called) upper will not fit a standard lower as the pins are located in different spots. That kinda killed it for me. Sure, you can get original 416 uppers, but I just can't justify the price.
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Posted: 10/24/2009 2:43:43 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
The only thing that sucks is that the civilian version (MR223 or whatever it's called) upper will not fit a standard lower as the pins are located in different spots. That kinda killed it for me. Sure, you can get original 416 uppers, but I just can't justify the price. it was because they had to conform to German exportation laws they get more and more expensive every time i look... |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 3:20:09 AM EDT
[#15]
Yeah, I miss my SL8/G36 conversion.
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Posted: 10/24/2009 3:50:01 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
it has one of HK's awesome polygonal barrels too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygonal_rifling cool concept, I have no clue if it's worth the extra money for civilian ownership I am however a long time away from buying anything HK, I've been planing my AR15 build since I joined this site and still haven't gotten past buying a stripped lower! (lack of income)
also, this may be a retarded question, but couldn't you have the piston system on the underside of the barrel and bend the gas tubing to the top to reduce recoil during full auto? I can post an image if no one understands my crazy idea If you want a quality barrel with polygonal rifling, check out Superior Barrels. I've heard nothing but good things. Having the piston on the bottom might reduce muzzle rise, but it won't change the impulse. The piston still hits the BCG with the same force, the BCG still hits the back of the reciever extension tube with the same force. |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 4:00:58 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
The best piston AR out there is made by Robinson Arms.
Mitt Romney would agree with you. |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 4:13:24 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: I suppose we would still be driving Model T's if we all felt that way. Planes with paper wings, no microwave oven... That stuff worked! Why did we bother to try to find something better? Damn you technical advancement, damn you to hell!Quoted: But how is it different from any other piston AR? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile .... My theory...If it isn't broken...don't fuck with it! |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 4:17:46 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The best piston AR out there is made by Robinson Arms.
GI Joe Approves of this message
http://www.sideshowtoy.com/mas_assets/jpg/2613_press05-001.jpg I gots ta get me one of these GI Joes!
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Posted: 10/24/2009 4:50:42 AM EDT
[#20]
Because they're German, and you suck.
Hax |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 4:52:18 AM EDT
[#21]
Because they're German, and you suck.
Hax |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 4:57:56 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
But how is it different from any other piston AR? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile About 2 grand more...and 10 times inaccurate due to more moving parts! All piston driven Ar uppers are Efin POS...Direct impingement is the way it was designed.. The more moving parts the more shit can get broke..With the exception of the AK and Fal... My theory...If it isn't broken...don't fuck with it! the horse and buggy is superior to the automobile too, get off the damn new fangled computer and get back to your abacus old fart |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 4:59:35 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: Quoted: The best piston AR out there is made by Robinson Arms. GI Joe Approves of this message http://www.sideshowtoy.com/mas_assets/jpg/2613_press05-001.jpg CRAP! I just went to find that and they are only making 2000 of them... and they are already sold out... |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 5:13:39 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The best piston AR out there is made by Robinson Arms.
GI Joe Approves of this message
http://www.sideshowtoy.com/mas_assets/jpg/2613_press05-001.jpg CRAP! I just went to find that and they are only making 2000 of them... and they are already sold out... There's 10 in the EE for $650. 
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Posted: 10/24/2009 5:29:16 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
But how is it different from any other piston AR? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Having the letters "HK" make things worth 10x the price of a comparable item, and we all know their quality is easily 10x comparable items as well! 
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Posted: 10/24/2009 5:38:33 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Yeah, I miss my SL8/G36 conversion.
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g255/deputythrust/Weapons/DSC01784.jpg Still got my UMP and it isn't going anywhere anytime soon. 
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Posted: 10/24/2009 5:54:35 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I suppose we would still be driving Model T's if we all felt that way. Planes with paper wings, no microwave oven... That stuff worked! Why did we bother to try to find something better? Damn you technical advancement, damn you to hell!
Quoted:
But how is it different from any other piston AR? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile .... My theory...If it isn't broken...don't fuck with it! I am not quite convinced that the Gas Piston system is a technical advancement for the M4 platform. I mean hell gas pistons have been around since at least the Garand. We are not looking at a major breakthrough in firearm technology here. |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 6:37:48 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
I am not quite convinced that the Gas Piston system is a technical advancement for the M4 platform. I mean hell gas pistons have been around since at least the Garand. We are not looking at a major breakthrough in firearm technology here. Exactly. DI was an improvement over pistons- less parts, lighter weight, softer recoil. Of course there are trade-offs, there always are, but I'll stick with DI in the AR platform. |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 6:46:02 AM EDT
[#29]
I have a buddy with a local PD. They just bought 10 of them and had to return 2 of them. The trigger wouldn't reset after
firing in full auto. They had to manually pull it forward for it to fire again. In HK's defense they swapped them out with new ones but I really wouldn't feel good using that in a "tense" situation. On top of this he said they wouldn't take a standard AR magazine. |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 6:46:57 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
But how is it different from any other piston AR? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile About 2 grand more...and 10 times inaccurate due to more moving parts! All piston driven Ar uppers are Efin POS...Direct impingement is the way it was designed.. The more moving parts the more shit can get broke..With the exception of the AK and Fal... My theory...If it isn't broken...don't fuck with it! What the Eff are you talking about ????????????? My LWRC is a MOA rifle. And where are the pics of all these "Broken" extra moving parts that you are talkin ??????????????????? |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 6:52:50 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: But how is it different from any other piston AR? Because Ve Hate you, und you are nicht ein operator mit ze big government budget. - HK Uberlord |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 6:56:11 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: The best piston AR out there is made by Robinson Arms. Actually Colt just may have the best pison not out there. The military has shown no interest. 5sub |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 6:58:27 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I suppose we would still be driving Model T's if we all felt that way. Planes with paper wings, no microwave oven... That stuff worked! Why did we bother to try to find something better? Damn you technical advancement, damn you to hell!Quoted: But how is it different from any other piston AR? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile .... My theory...If it isn't broken...don't fuck with it! I am not quite convinced that the Gas Piston system is a technical advancement for the M4 platform. I mean hell gas pistons have been around since at least the Garand. We are not looking at a major breakthrough in firearm technology here. I am not quite convinced that the Gas Piston system is a technical advancement for the M4 platform. I mean hell gas pistons have been around since at least the Garand. We are not looking at a major breakthrough in firearm technology here. Nope......just another flavor of the month. 5sub |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 7:00:14 AM EDT
[#34]
tag
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Posted: 10/24/2009 7:14:05 AM EDT
[#35]
pistons excel in short barreled rifles.
one more point you are shooting a damn .22 how soft do you want the recoil? why not switch to airsoft? |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 7:15:24 AM EDT
[#36]
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Posted: 10/24/2009 7:18:41 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: difference: $ I think the rule of pricing is still $1k per inch of tac rail |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 7:24:52 AM EDT
[#38]
I have a LMT 12" piston SBR on order.
I am getting it to run with a suppressor and just to play with. I have no intention of getting rid of my DI rifles. |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 7:27:14 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Because they're German, and you suck. Hax This. |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 7:31:03 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: it has one of HK's awesome polygonal barrels too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygonal_rifling cool concept, I have no clue if it's worth the extra money for civilian ownership I am however a long time away from buying anything HK, I've been planing my AR15 build since I joined this site and still haven't gotten past buying a stripped lower! (lack of income)also, this may be a retarded question, but couldn't you have the piston system on the underside of the barrel and bend the gas tubing to the top to reduce recoil during full auto? I can post an image if no one understands my crazy idea HOW does the gas system "cause" recoil? Think about it, recoil is from the bullet and powder mass moving AWAY from the shooter. The piston and carrier are moving opposite the bullet and powder. |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 7:32:55 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: I have a buddy with a local PD. They just bought 10 of them and had to return 2 of them. The trigger wouldn't reset after firing in full auto. They had to manually pull it forward for it to fire again. In HK's defense they swapped them out with new ones but I really wouldn't feel good using that in a "tense" situation. On top of this he said they wouldn't take a standard AR magazine. The one I fired did (take standard AR mags). A local agency purchased some and we ran one of theirs hard in an instructor course mag dumping like mad. It's fun to abuse other peoples guns. |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 7:41:35 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
But how is it different from any other piston AR? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile About 2 grand more...and 10 times inaccurate due to more moving parts! All piston driven Ar uppers are Efin POS...Direct impingement is the way it was designed.. The more moving parts the more shit can get broke..With the exception of the AK and Fal... My theory...If it isn't broken...don't fuck with it! the horse and buggy is superior to the automobile too, get off the damn new fangled computer and get back to your abacus old fart Tell me again what a piston gun does that a DI gun doesn't (aside from lighten my wallet so that my ass looks slimmer). |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 7:48:08 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Quoted:
it has one of HK's awesome polygonal barrels too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygonal_rifling cool concept, I have no clue if it's worth the extra money for civilian ownership I am however a long time away from buying anything HK, I've been planing my AR15 build since I joined this site and still haven't gotten past buying a stripped lower! (lack of income)
also, this may be a retarded question, but couldn't you have the piston system on the underside of the barrel and bend the gas tubing to the top to reduce recoil during full auto? I can post an image if no one understands my crazy idea If you want a quality barrel with polygonal rifling, check out Superior Barrels. Polygonal rifling is not the same thing as a polygonal bore. |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 7:53:41 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: But how is it different from any other piston AR? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile About 2 grand more...and 10 times inaccurate due to more moving parts! All piston driven Ar uppers are Efin POS...Direct impingement is the way it was designed.. The more moving parts the more shit can get broke..With the exception of the AK and Fal... My theory...If it isn't broken...don't fuck with it! the horse and buggy is superior to the automobile too, get off the damn new fangled computer and get back to your abacus old fart Tell me again what a piston gun does that a DI gun doesn't (aside from lighten my wallet so that my ass looks slimmer). His analogy fails too. Piston automatics predate the Stoner design. The Stoner design is unique compared to all other designs in that the bolt and carrier are forced apart WITH EQUAL FORCE and because this forces the bolt forward, it unloads the locking lugs, reducing the need for high shear resistance in this machine element. |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 7:59:11 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
But how is it different from any other piston AR? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile About 2 grand more...and 10 times inaccurate due to more moving parts! All piston driven Ar uppers are Efin POS...Direct impingement is the way it was designed.. The more moving parts the more shit can get broke..With the exception of the AK and Fal... My theory...If it isn't broken...don't fuck with it! the horse and buggy is superior to the automobile too, get off the damn new fangled computer and get back to your abacus old fart Tell me again what a piston gun does that a DI gun doesn't (aside from lighten my wallet so that my ass looks slimmer). His analogy fails too. Piston automatics predate the Stoner design. The Stoner design is unique compared to all other designs in that the bolt and carrier are forced apart WITH EQUAL FORCE and because this forces the bolt forward, it unloads the locking lugs, reducing the need for high shear resistance in this machine element. I've made that argument to some friends of mine at work who insist that they want piston guns... I thought I was the only one who noticed that. Actually, I suppose a DI gun IS a piston gun - the bolt is the piston. |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 11:56:36 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I suppose we would still be driving Model T's if we all felt that way. Planes with paper wings, no microwave oven... That stuff worked! Why did we bother to try to find something better? Damn you technical advancement, damn you to hell!
Quoted:
But how is it different from any other piston AR? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile .... My theory...If it isn't broken...don't fuck with it! A piston system is hardly technical advancement. Pistons have been around a long time. |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 2:44:46 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Quoted:
it has one of HK's awesome polygonal barrels too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygonal_rifling cool concept, I have no clue if it's worth the extra money for civilian ownership I am however a long time away from buying anything HK, I've been planing my AR15 build since I joined this site and still haven't gotten past buying a stripped lower! (lack of income)
also, this may be a retarded question, but couldn't you have the piston system on the underside of the barrel and bend the gas tubing to the top to reduce recoil during full auto? I can post an image if no one understands my crazy idea HOW does the gas system "cause" recoil? Think about it, recoil is from the bullet and powder mass moving AWAY from the shooter. The piston and carrier are moving opposite the bullet and powder. About a 1 lb chunk of metal flying toward your shoulder after the bullet passes the gas port. The piston is also off axis of the barrel, so effect of the recoil is worse. That's why the DI was designed. I'll keep it, my AR's work fine with it. If I want piston, I'll pick up one of my AKs. |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 5:21:42 PM EDT
[#48]
It's only different to you because you suck and they hate you.
jd1 |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 5:26:17 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Screw pistons, use some better lube and keep it lubed: http://www.slip2000.com/patrogersreview.html Yep. |
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Posted: 10/24/2009 6:02:47 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: it has one of HK's awesome polygonal barrels too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygonal_rifling cool concept, I have no clue if it's worth the extra money for civilian ownership I am however a long time away from buying anything HK, I've been planing my AR15 build since I joined this site and still haven't gotten past buying a stripped lower! (lack of income)also, this may be a retarded question, but couldn't you have the piston system on the underside of the barrel and bend the gas tubing to the top to reduce recoil during full auto? I can post an image if no one understands my crazy idea HOW does the gas system "cause" recoil? Think about it, recoil is from the bullet and powder mass moving AWAY from the shooter. The piston and carrier are moving opposite the bullet and powder. About a 1 lb chunk of metal flying toward your shoulder after the bullet passes the gas port. The piston is also off axis of the barrel, so effect of the recoil is worse. That's why the DI was designed. I'll keep it, my AR's work fine with it. If I want piston, I'll pick up one of my AKs. Physics...if the buffer is bottoming out in the tube and making recoil, it is FAR over-gassed. By the time the buffer has neared the end of the stroke, all of the combined carrier+buffer mass KINETIC energy (1/2 mass*velocity^2) is now transferred to spring POTENTIAL energy (1/2spring constant*distance). Any idiot over-gassing an AR platform with an ALUMINUM buffer tube needs to review the basic engineering property of aluminum, that being a finite endurance limit, REGARDLESS of stress level or alloy. Smacking that buffer tube with the buffer every shot will greatly reduce its life. And buffers are designed to be non-rebounding with resilient polyurethane pads. |
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