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Posted: 8/29/2015 12:44:08 PM EDT
BREAKING: Bundeswehr Accepts HK417 As Temporary Replacement For G36 With Front-Line Troops - See more at: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/08/29/breaking-bundeswehr-accepts-hk417-as-temporary-replacement-for-g36-with-front-line-troops/#sthash.VjsHIXTR.dpuf
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In a surprising move, the German Defense Ministry has accepted an order of 600 new rifles and 600 machine guns to replace the troubled HK G36 that was savaged by scandal earlier this year. Their choice? The 7.62x51mm HK 417 rifle. The Local reports:

Junior Defence Minister Katrin Suder decided to spend €18 million on 600 new rifles and 600 new machine guns for frontline soldiers to replace some of the defective weapons, the Sueddeutsche Zeitung reported on Friday.

The army will take delivery of the full number of HK417 rifles, a type already in use with some special forces units, by mid-2016.

Recent tests on the new rifle have shown that it suffers none of the accuracy problems seen in the G36 under extreme conditions.

Swapping out just 1,200 of the more than 100,000 rifles used by the army will only be an interim solution for soldiers on deployment in combat zones.

But both replacements will come from the same manufacturer behind the problematic G36 rifle, world-renowned gun maker Heckler and Koch (HK).

Rifle could be changed this year

A more permanent decision about whether to replace the army’s entire stock of G36 rifles will come later this year.

We covered the G36 controversy extensively earlier this year, beginning as things began to heat up, the release of a damning report by the Ernst Mach Institute, H&K’s defense, the German Defense Minister’s condemnation of the rifle, the cover-up scandal, to Lithuania’s withdrawal from G36 procurement. We even tested a G36 for ourselves, to see if we could replicate the accuracy issues.

- See more at: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/08/29/breaking-bundeswehr-accepts-hk417-as-temporary-replacement-for-g36-with-front-line-troops/#sthash.VjsHIXTR.dpuf
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http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/08/29/breaking-bundeswehr-accepts-hk417-as-temporary-replacement-for-g36-with-front-line-troops/
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 12:46:50 PM EDT
in 308.

huh.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 12:47:34 PM EDT
Doesn't make a lot of sense to switch calibers too
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 12:47:48 PM EDT
They just jumped calibers for the hell of it??
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 12:54:02 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Deadtired:
They just jumped calibers for the hell of it??
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Maybe an easier way to justify a weapon change, without hurting HK G36 sales worldwide?
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 12:57:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Kubota3430:



Maybe an easier way to justify a weapon change, without hurting HK G36 sales worldwide?
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Originally Posted By Kubota3430:
Originally Posted By Deadtired:
They just jumped calibers for the hell of it??



Maybe an easier way to justify a weapon change, without hurting HK G36 sales worldwide?


Could have just adopted the 416 instead
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 12:58:06 PM EDT
Meh, Fuck HK
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 1:00:45 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Kubota3430:



Maybe an easier way to justify a weapon change, without hurting HK G36 sales worldwide?
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Originally Posted By Kubota3430:
Originally Posted By Deadtired:
They just jumped calibers for the hell of it??



Maybe an easier way to justify a weapon change, without hurting HK G36 sales worldwide?

The German military pretty much already said the G36 was a POS.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 1:03:06 PM EDT
I bet that's a heavy bitch
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 1:04:01 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By Kubota3430:
Maybe an easier way to justify a weapon change, without hurting HK G36 sales worldwide?
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Originally Posted By Kubota3430:



Originally Posted By Deadtired:

They just jumped calibers for the hell of it??






Maybe an easier way to justify a weapon change, without hurting HK G36 sales worldwide?
Perhaps, but if it's for frontline troops, wouldn't that necessitate at the very least new mag pouches/other gear (I don't know what exactly) that may not have needed alteration if they'd just switched to another 5.56, as well as rendering useless any stocks of 5.56 these units have on-hand?  It seems like a big change for temporary measure, unless I'm seriously missing something.  



 
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 1:04:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 1:06:47 PM EDT
Lol Germany.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 1:14:36 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By X-ile:


Doesn't make a lot of sense to switch calibers too

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Appears that they are not replacing the weapon system - just changing rolls for a small percentage of the people who used it.



 
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 1:30:40 PM EDT
Did they fuck up the numbers in that article? 600 rifles and 600 machine guns for 18 million euro?  So they are paying 15,000 euro per weapon? And in 7.62? Wtf?
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 1:34:43 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By myfakename:


Did they fuck up the numbers in that article? 600 rifles and 600 machine guns for 18 million euro?  So they are paying 15,000 euro per weapon? And in 7.62? Wtf?
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News articles are a 100% factual, a 100% of the time.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 1:36:09 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By myfakename:


Did they fuck up the numbers in that article? 600 rifles and 600 machine guns for 18 million euro?  So they are paying 15,000 euro per weapon? And in 7.62? Wtf?
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But they're fancy GERMAN rifles and machine guns.  



 
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 1:38:09 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By X-ile:
Could have just adopted the 416 instead
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Originally Posted By X-ile:



Originally Posted By Kubota3430:


Originally Posted By Deadtired:

They just jumped calibers for the hell of it??






Maybe an easier way to justify a weapon change, without hurting HK G36 sales worldwide?




Could have just adopted the 416 instead
Yep and then the bullets will keyhole after 10k rds

 



Sorry HK sucks in the 21st Century, just like Colt they have been passed

By
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 1:42:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2015 1:44:55 PM EDT by ArmyInfantryVet]
I bet those rifles are very expensive.







I know the Marines haven't adopted the 416 or M27 on mass, because R0N said it would cost too much. And I'm betting even the Marines have a bigger budget than the Heer.




 



ETA: I looked it up, and not quite, but it's close. 33 billion vs 24 billion.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 1:45:14 PM EDT
the 417 is already their approved dmr; as its a temporary change, when they do find a permanent replacement, the excess 417's will just be extra dmr rifles and wont have to be retired in leu of the permanent replacement.

I wouldn't be surprised ithey end up adopting the 416, this temp change would give them the time to send it through testing and trials.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 1:55:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2015 1:59:33 PM EDT by OldArmy]
I wonder if it has anything to do with the longer engagement distances encountered in theaters like Afghanistan. My unit was normally engaged from 800-1200 meters while we were in Gormach. (can't recall spelling) And from my understand that's pretty normal outside of the cities. 5.56 is next to useless at that range, which is why half way though our deployment we got a bunch of EBR's and 2 XM bolt action rifles for some of our DM's to use.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 1:55:22 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By usar_ds:


the 417 is already their approved dmr; as its a temporary change, when they do find a permanent replacement, the excess 417's will just be extra dmr rifles and wont have to be retired in leu of the permanent replacement.



I wouldn't be surprised ithey end up adopting the 416, this temp change would give them the time to send it through testing and trials.
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This.




They bought stuff that can still be 100% useful in the future, regardless of sweeping changes.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 1:58:22 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By X-ile:


Could have just adopted the 416 instead
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Originally Posted By X-ile:
Originally Posted By Kubota3430:
Originally Posted By Deadtired:
They just jumped calibers for the hell of it??



Maybe an easier way to justify a weapon change, without hurting HK G36 sales worldwide?


Could have just adopted the 416 instead


Looks like they want more reach with more umph.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 2:01:02 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Kihn:


Looks like they want more reach with more umph.
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Originally Posted By Kihn:
Originally Posted By X-ile:
Originally Posted By Kubota3430:
Originally Posted By Deadtired:
They just jumped calibers for the hell of it??



Maybe an easier way to justify a weapon change, without hurting HK G36 sales worldwide?


Could have just adopted the 416 instead


Looks like they want more reach with more umph.


No looks like they're just using their DMR platform for the time being. I would be extremely surprised if they choose anything but the 416
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 2:03:27 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By FREEFALLE7:
Yep and then the bullets will keyhole after 10k rds  

Sorry HK sucks in the 21st Century, just like Colt they have been passed
By
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Originally Posted By FREEFALLE7:
Originally Posted By X-ile:
Originally Posted By Kubota3430:
Originally Posted By Deadtired:
They just jumped calibers for the hell of it??



Maybe an easier way to justify a weapon change, without hurting HK G36 sales worldwide?


Could have just adopted the 416 instead
Yep and then the bullets will keyhole after 10k rds  

Sorry HK sucks in the 21st Century, just like Colt they have been passed
By


FF you missed the boat on this one man. First, the G36 was 20th century. Second, the 21st century has seen HK's best with 416, 417, MP7, HK45, VP9, HK121. Nothing like Colt
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 2:11:41 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By skytrooper01:
I bet that's a heavy bitch
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Haha, first thing that came to my mind when I saw the picture.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 2:13:12 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Kubota3430:



Maybe an easier way to justify a weapon change, without hurting HK G36 sales worldwide?
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Originally Posted By Kubota3430:
Originally Posted By Deadtired:
They just jumped calibers for the hell of it??



Maybe an easier way to justify a weapon change, without hurting HK G36 sales worldwide?


HK G36 sales have been smashed by this whole hoopla anyways.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 2:14:43 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By skytrooper01:
I bet that's a heavy bitch
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Germans stronk!
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 2:14:57 PM EDT
Who gives a shit, when was the last time some Bundeswehr guy even took a shot in combat at anybody since WW2? Now if the rifle say had a bottle opener for Weizens back at the compound..then maybe
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 2:18:34 PM EDT
And this is why vp9 production stopped.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 2:20:04 PM EDT
I wonder where their old G36 rifles will go. Lithuania uses G36s and G3s, wonder if they'll get these G36s to replace those clunky G3s.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 2:24:20 PM EDT

I was keeping my fingers crossed for a MINI-14 with a Tasco scope.    
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 2:25:16 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By mp_moody:
I wonder where their old G36 rifles will go. Lithuania uses G36s and G3s, wonder if they'll get these G36s to replace those clunky G3s.
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I think they will burn them in ovens.  The Germans -- they do that you know.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 2:31:49 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By mayday:

I was keeping my fingers crossed for a MINI-14 with a Tasco scope.    
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It's all about the arty and CAS anyways...
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 2:51:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2015 2:53:25 PM EDT by fettesbrotde]
Makes sense.





They have tons of 308 in stock, as the G3 used to be the service weapon. In that respect its also still comparable in weight to the old G3.


 



ETA: 416 is likely replacement of the G36, they're probably working out the contract details and discounts / reimbursements for the G36 issues.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 2:52:34 PM EDT
better start doing some squats
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 9:51:39 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By mp_moody:
I wonder where their old G36 rifles will go. Lithuania uses G36s and G3s, wonder if they'll get these G36s to replace those clunky G3s.
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They've been giving a shit ton of G36s to the Kurds for use in Iraq against ISIS.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 10:11:45 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By OldArmy:
I wonder if it has anything to do with the longer engagement distances encountered in theaters like Afghanistan. My unit was normally engaged from 800-1200 meters while we were in Gormach. (can't recall spelling) And from my understand that's pretty normal outside of the cities. 5.56 is next to useless at that range, which is why half way though our deployment we got a bunch of EBR's and 2 XM bolt action rifles for some of our DM's to use.
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That's what I'm thinking.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 10:19:22 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By OldArmy:
I wonder if it has anything to do with the longer engagement distances encountered in theaters like Afghanistan. My unit was normally engaged from 800-1200 meters while we were in Gormach. (can't recall spelling) And from my understand that's pretty normal outside of the cities. 5.56 is next to useless at that range, which is why half way though our deployment we got a bunch of EBR's and 2 XM bolt action rifles for some of our DM's to use.
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Thats beyond the range of a DM as well.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 10:20:06 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By USMCTanker:





That's what I'm thinking.
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Originally Posted By USMCTanker:



Originally Posted By OldArmy:

I wonder if it has anything to do with the longer engagement distances encountered in theaters like Afghanistan. My unit was normally engaged from 800-1200 meters while we were in Gormach. (can't recall spelling) And from my understand that's pretty normal outside of the cities. 5.56 is next to useless at that range, which is why half way though our deployment we got a bunch of EBR's and 2 XM bolt action rifles for some of our DM's to use.


That's what I'm thinking.




 
Same here, I'm hoping Germany decides to use Battle Rifles as their standard service rifle.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 10:24:49 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Valintino:

  Same here, I'm hoping Germany decides to use Battle Rifles as their standard service rifle.
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Originally Posted By Valintino:
Originally Posted By USMCTanker:
Originally Posted By OldArmy:
I wonder if it has anything to do with the longer engagement distances encountered in theaters like Afghanistan. My unit was normally engaged from 800-1200 meters while we were in Gormach. (can't recall spelling) And from my understand that's pretty normal outside of the cities. 5.56 is next to useless at that range, which is why half way though our deployment we got a bunch of EBR's and 2 XM bolt action rifles for some of our DM's to use.

That's what I'm thinking.

  Same here, I'm hoping Germany decides to use Battle Rifles as their standard service rifle.

Link Posted: 8/29/2015 10:27:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2015 10:27:38 PM EDT by Valintino]


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Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
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Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:





Originally Posted By Valintino:




Originally Posted By USMCTanker:




Originally Posted By OldArmy:


I wonder if it has anything to do with the longer engagement distances encountered in theaters like Afghanistan. My unit was normally engaged from 800-1200 meters while we were in Gormach. (can't recall spelling) And from my understand that's pretty normal outside of the cities. 5.56 is next to useless at that range, which is why half way though our deployment we got a bunch of EBR's and 2 XM bolt action rifles for some of our DM's to use.



That's what I'm thinking.



  Same here, I'm hoping Germany decides to use Battle Rifles as their standard service rifle.










 
Opinions, everyone has one. Plus it'd be nice to have a bigger flow of 308 ammo being made.


 
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 10:36:52 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By USMCTanker:


That's what I'm thinking.
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Originally Posted By USMCTanker:
Originally Posted By OldArmy:
I wonder if it has anything to do with the longer engagement distances encountered in theaters like Afghanistan. My unit was normally engaged from 800-1200 meters while we were in Gormach. (can't recall spelling) And from my understand that's pretty normal outside of the cities. 5.56 is next to useless at that range, which is why half way though our deployment we got a bunch of EBR's and 2 XM bolt action rifles for some of our DM's to use.


That's what I'm thinking.


Why? Does Germany really expect to be in Afghanistan for any longer than a handful of years?  What happens when the battlefield changes to forests and urban areas?
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 10:45:17 PM EDT
Eugene Stoner wins again.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 10:58:53 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By Sheddy:
Why? Does Germany really expect to be in Afghanistan for any longer than a handful of years?  What happens when the battlefield changes to forests and urban areas?
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Originally Posted By Sheddy:



Originally Posted By USMCTanker:


Originally Posted By OldArmy:

I wonder if it has anything to do with the longer engagement distances encountered in theaters like Afghanistan. My unit was normally engaged from 800-1200 meters while we were in Gormach. (can't recall spelling) And from my understand that's pretty normal outside of the cities. 5.56 is next to useless at that range, which is why half way though our deployment we got a bunch of EBR's and 2 XM bolt action rifles for some of our DM's to use.




That's what I'm thinking.




Why? Does Germany really expect to be in Afghanistan for any longer than a handful of years?  What happens when the battlefield changes to forests and urban areas?




 
The Forests of Vietnam didn't give the Aussies any trouble with their L1A1 rifles. The Brits used theirs in Belfast and during the Troubles. Battle Rifles are still suitable in vast varieties of terrain and battlefields.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 11:04:12 PM EDT
in for Cheap 308 in a couple years!  
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 11:10:52 PM EDT
Just send the g36 to America

All the retards on hkpro will buy them at retarded inflated prices
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 11:14:29 PM EDT
Why not 416?



Link Posted: 8/29/2015 11:15:06 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:




Thats beyond the range of a DM as well.
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Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Originally Posted By OldArmy:
I wonder if it has anything to do with the longer engagement distances encountered in theaters like Afghanistan. My unit was normally engaged from 800-1200 meters while we were in Gormach. (can't recall spelling) And from my understand that's pretty normal outside of the cities. 5.56 is next to useless at that range, which is why half way though our deployment we got a bunch of EBR's and 2 XM bolt action rifles for some of our DM's to use.




Thats beyond the range of a DM as well.


So we should have just stuck with the 5.56 rifles?!?! Are you trolling? Tell you what, I'll get on a high ridge line in a fighting position, and shoot at you with 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R rifles, you take the 5.56 and the low ground. I, I can't even dude your a fucking idiot.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 11:15:15 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Deadtired:
They just jumped calibers for the hell of it??
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I think they want more DMRs. Politicians can say "we're doing something" and get it done. Replacing 100K rifles isn't going to happen so quickly. With 600, they can push them into DMR positions once a more permanent solution comes through. The Germans already use the 417 as a DMR, but I suppose they were going to buy more anyways.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 11:17:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 11:17:19 PM EDT
Needs more G3
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