Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 6/6/2002 6:29:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2002 6:48:09 AM EDT by 5subslr5]
I do not believe fingerprinting Muslims from selected countries will do much. Rather than argue whether or not printing should/should not be done let's discuss if the idea is worthwhile. My take: If we print only those Muslims from certain Muslim and Arab countries what's to stop a Muslim with British or Malaysian or Indonesian or Philippine or______________citizenship from launching the next attack? How do we identify who is a Muslim ?? I don't have a clue ! My thoughts are to print every non U.S. citizen either prior to or at the time of entry. Printem all. Takes all discussion about ethnic or religious profiling out of the picture. Now, I also believe we should print all of the above when they LEAVE our country. We need some ability to match so we know the correct person left - not simply someone with the same name and passport. Your thoughts ?? (YES, I know the next terrorist could well be home-grown but the last group was not.)
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 6:32:54 AM EDT
If fingerprinting [u]all[/u] who enter the country can be done as easily as just doing the ones from suspect countries, sure why not? But let's get started today on the visitors from 'suspect' countries. 'Great Balls of Fire, Time's a Wastin' - Snuffy Smith. Eric The(Urgent)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 6:44:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2002 6:46:17 AM EDT by PaoloAR15]
I am used to security checks... Israel, remeber? If it is to save my life and other (USA included, of course) lives, I'll subscribe fingerprinting for foreigners...
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 6:45:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: But let's get started today on the visitors from 'suspect' countries. Eric The(Urgent)Hun[>]:)]
View Quote
HUN, if we printem all then the discrimination crap immediately ceases - no leg remaining to stand on. Does not much matter whether the cries of discrimination, racial profiling, etc., are correct we know screams there will be. It will be approximately 350 times the work of the presently unworkable plan but so what ? We invented the atom bomb, went to the moon and we can do this.
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 6:58:16 AM EDT
First things first, sez I! Get the ones coming from suspected nations and [u]then[/u] we can start dealing with the influx of terrorists from BeNeLux! Eric The(That'sBelgium,Netherlands,Luxembourg,BTW)­Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 7:27:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rn45: It seems to me that The_Macallan and Tatjana got into quite a discussion about this yesterday. I'm for better identification of Arab immigrants and visitors. Information in a data base that could be accessed in a timely manner might be an associate file. If a student was found to be part of a terrorist organization, we could link to his associates and perhaps stop another 9-11 style attack. We are under attack and frankly I could care less if the Saudis are offended. If they don't like it, perhaps they should stay home.
View Quote
FINE ! But how does one identify a Muslim when they may be from any country and be of any ethnicity ?? If one could limit terrorists to only those of the Muslim faith how does one identify which is an extremist ? Printem all. (Let God (or a good database system) sortem out.)
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 7:50:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 8:26:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mojo: ........but at least it is there as a database for us to utilize, to manipulate, to connect links between any of them.
View Quote
mojo, my thoughts too. Putem in a database coming in and matchem up going out. (And hunt down the ones who don't match.) But put all in the database. We 'CAN' do this. It is time the government did something besides cause four hour airport delays to stop the terrorists. The USA has propsered because of our previous "We can do_________" Not the present "But this is hard."
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 8:27:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2002 8:37:54 AM EDT by ChuckT]
It would seem to me that the only advantage of fingerprinting is the ability to insure that the name on the passport [i]this time[/i] matches the name they used [i]the previous time[/i] they entered the country. If they know that individuals from certain countries are [b]required[/b] to give fingerprints, why wouldn't they just use a passport and documentation from another country which [i]isn't[/i] being fingerprinted? They create their own documentation. They don't follow the rules. So how does this help?
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 8:39:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ChuckT: It would seem to me that the only advantage of fingerprinting is the ability to insure that the name on the passport [i]this time[/i] matches the name they used [i]the previous time[/i] they entered the country. If they know that individuals from certain countries are [b]required[/b] to give fingerprints, why wouldn't they just use a passport and documentation from another country which [i]isn't[/i] being fingerprinted? They create their own documentation. They don't follow the rules. So how does this help?
View Quote
Right ! Printem all.
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 8:49:47 AM EDT
I've got a better idea. At this point let's make it illegal for any muslim to enter the country and shoot violators. [uzi]
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 8:54:19 AM EDT
fingerprint and pic them all. start with the high risk countries first. check everyone coming into the country to verify the fingerprint/pic on a visa matches the fingerprint/pic that we have on file. the technology is there and it works, it is not necessary to use the 'black ink and card' to process them into a digital data base. this would allow checking/verification of individuals before they arrive, when they arrive and when they leave. put some freakin' patrols on the borders. if we can't stop them at the border, the pics/prints are useless. if we do not do this, everything else is a waste of time. If you are not a citizen and do not wish to give your fingerprints and pics before arriving here, then stay home. i would expect no less from any country that I wanted to visit.
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 9:06:44 AM EDT
Fingerprinting is a great idea. Once they carry out their suicide attack on us we will be able to identify their body parts and thus be able to ass ertain that they were bad guys.
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 9:11:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tulsacmpshooter: Fingerprinting is a great idea. Once they carry out their suicide attack on us we will be able to identify their body parts and thus be able to ass ertain that they were bad guys.
View Quote
[b]Exactly![/b] It seems to me we need more resources on the ground. However, that takes years.
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 9:19:56 AM EDT
I'm with the Hun on this one. Let's start with...oh..say Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Libya, Iraq, Palestinians...you know, that part of the world and then expand from there once the resources become available. Johnny(I'mnottooproudtoborroworagreewithyouri­dea)Reno [>]:)]
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 9:23:33 AM EDT
As long as we remain a free society there's no way to get around this. Finger printing is merely a small inconvenience to those truly determined. I'm pretty sure finger prints can be faked, BTW, not that it matters. We can't track their movements in this country with their fingerprints. Which is what actually matters.
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 9:27:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2002 9:29:10 AM EDT by The_Macallan]
Originally Posted By jz02: We can't track their movements in this country with their fingerprints. Which is what actually matters.
View Quote
Track WHO'S movements?? To WHOM are you referring? Until you start positively and permanently identifing people (of which some are terrorists) you can't even begin to "track" them as they pass our borders, obtain other ID documents, etc. If "tracking" potential terrorists is important to you, the first step is to IDENTIFY them.
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 9:32:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2002 9:33:07 AM EDT by Johnny_Reno]
Originally Posted By jz02: I'm pretty sure finger prints can be faked, BTW, not that it matters.
View Quote
I think they can be smeared or made unreadable, but I don't think they can be faked.
We can't track their movements in this country with their fingerprints. Which is what actually matters.
View Quote
From what I saw of Ashcroft's announcement, they would also be required to check in with the INS every 30 days to verify their activities and where they're living. Now, that isn't foolproof but it would put a cramp in their style IF the INS handles it correctly. Plus, if they fail to show up for their meeting, you put them on the "arrest on sight" database. Or should that be "shoot on sight"?
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 10:42:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Johnny_Reno:
Originally Posted By jz02: I'm pretty sure finger prints can be faked, BTW, not that it matters.
View Quote
I think they can be smeared or made unreadable, but I don't think they can be faked.
View Quote
Very soon... [url=http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2110380,00.html]Jelly babies dupe fingerprint security[/url] ...According to the security newsletter Crypto-Gram, Tsutomu Matsumoto from Yokohama National University has evolved a technique that takes casts from fingers and builds fake digits from gelatin -- the stuff of jelly babies. With care, he says, all 11 of the current fingerprint scanning technologies he tested give a false positive 80 percent of the time using the fraudulent jelly extremity...
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 10:59:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Originally Posted By Johnny_Reno:
Originally Posted By jz02: I'm pretty sure finger prints can be faked, BTW, not that it matters.
View Quote
I think they can be smeared or made unreadable, but I don't think they can be faked.
View Quote
Very soon... [url=http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2110380,00.html]Jelly babies dupe fingerprint security[/url] ...According to the security newsletter Crypto-Gram, Tsutomu Matsumoto from Yokohama National University has evolved a technique that takes casts from fingers and builds fake digits from gelatin -- the stuff of jelly babies. With care, he says, all 11 of the current fingerprint scanning technologies he tested give a false positive 80 percent of the time using the fraudulent jelly extremity...
View Quote
Yep. Saw a short blurb on the tube about this problem with prints. Maybe eye scans, DNA, Facial recognition (I know, not very reliable either) - something to identify an individual that's coming in or going out.
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 11:43:55 AM EDT
How about a real solution to this problem....kill everyone that was involved in 9/11...financially and physically....But the government instead wants to tighten security at airports...???? Why not make everyone who thinks about attacking America afraid of us again...and where is Osama...remember him? the guy who bush said we were going after? The guy who was in custody once before and the Pres---WJclinton---had him released. And where are the rest of the people involved in the first WTC bombing? Big talk and no actions....
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 1:54:06 PM EDT
How would this help stop terrorists? Krazy Akbar goes into the consulate in arab shit-hole #1 ... Krazy Akbar: "Hello, I'm AliAkbarMuhamidMumiaAbuJerkoff, I'd like to get a tourist visa to the USA" Consulate Worker: Fingerprint please. ...10 minutes later... I'm sorry my AliAkbarMuhamidMummiaAbuJerkoff I can't give you a visa today. ...2 hours later at the consulate in arab shit-hole #2 ... Krazy Akbar: "Hello, I'm UsamaBinJerkinOffAliAkbahrBinButtFuck, I'd like to get a tourist visa to the USA" Consulate Worker: "Finger print please . . . I'm sorry my AliAkbarMuhamidMummiaAbuJerkoff I can't give you a visa today. Why are you trying to get visas using fake names? Ol Krazy Akbar never gets into the country. I don't know how helpfull it would be once they've actually made it into the country. Once we get a database built however, we'll be able to keep out people who can in some way be associated with known terrorists. Names can be faked much more easily than prints.
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 2:14:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AlClenin: How would this help stop terrorists? Krazy Akbar goes into the consulate in arab shit-hole #1 ... Krazy Akbar: "Hello, I'm AliAkbarMuhamidMumiaAbuJerkoff, I'd like to get a tourist visa to the USA" Consulate Worker: Fingerprint please. ...10 minutes later... I'm sorry my AliAkbarMuhamidMummiaAbuJerkoff I can't give you a visa today. ...2 hours later at the consulate in arab shit-hole #2 ... Krazy Akbar: "Hello, I'm UsamaBinJerkinOffAliAkbahrBinButtFuck, I'd like to get a tourist visa to the USA" Consulate Worker: "Finger print please . . . I'm sorry my AliAkbarMuhamidMummiaAbuJerkoff I can't give you a visa today. Why are you trying to get visas using fake names? Ol Krazy Akbar never gets into the country. I don't know how helpfull it would be once they've actually made it into the country. Once we get a database built however, we'll be able to keep out people who can in some way be associated with known terrorists. Names can be faked much more easily than prints.
View Quote
Al, 'should' be done when the visa application is made. I guess it 'could' be done at the point of entry. With our thousands of miles of unsealable borders nothing is going to work very well. However, we can make things more difficult for the terrorists. (I believe your comments about steadily inputting information into a database is right on target. We can begin to associate various names with prints. At least we know who is trying to enter and could also begin to associate these people with their individual groups.)
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 2:18:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hound: How about a real solution to this problem....kill everyone that was involved in 9/11...financially and physically....But the government instead wants to tighten security at airports...???? Why not make everyone who thinks about attacking America afraid of us again...and where is Osama...remember him? the guy who bush said we were going after? The guy who was in custody once before and the Pres---WJclinton---had him released. And where are the rest of the people involved in the first WTC bombing? Big talk and no actions....
View Quote
hound, they already fear us. That's one of the reasons they hate us so much. (I don't want to turn this into an Israeli thread but our policies toward Israel is another large reason.)
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 2:45:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 2:46:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 2:50:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ColonelKlink: What about Muslims born in the US that sympathize with terrorists? Are you gonna print them too?
View Quote
No. They're citizens. You seem to believe that since this is a tough job (cutting down on the number of these fucks that get into the country) we shouldn't try. Why is that? I don't think we're doing enough. We should have more border patrols, and a period of ZERO immigration for starters.
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 3:12:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AlClenin:
Originally Posted By ColonelKlink: What about Muslims born in the US that sympathize with terrorists? Are you gonna print them too?
View Quote
No. They're citizens. You seem to believe that since this is a tough job (cutting down on the number of these fucks that get into the country) we shouldn't try. Why is that? I don't think we're doing enough. We should have more border patrols, and a period of ZERO immigration for starters.
View Quote
Al, I agree with all excepting the "ZERO immigration." (and I wish I could agree with that) The bitter truth is we've done such a completely schit job with our education system that we MUST import engineers and other technical talent to keep our industries going. Pakistan and India both do a better job of teaching mathematics, science than we do. When it comes to education needed for the 21st century we are the third-world country !
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 3:23:50 PM EDT
Reminds me of trying to register gun owners. Bad guys always find a way around laws. If AliAkbar can't get a Visa to the USA he can always take the slow route through Central America and what would normally be a short swim from Mexico is no a leisurly stroll into the Good ol USA. Granted we now have every inch of our border proteced with armed boys and girlz so they may want to go star gazing instead. If they want in they will get in.
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 3:39:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tulsacmpshooter: If they want in they will get in.
View Quote
True. About all we can do is make things more difficult.
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 3:49:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2002 3:50:23 PM EDT by ChuckT]
Why don't we just inject them with a GPS Sat-tracker chip when they enter the country? That way we'd always know where they're at! [rolleyes] As long as our borders leak like a sieve, we'll never keep the serious terrorists out. If umpteen thousands of Mexicans can cross the border every year, how much easier will it be for a terrorist with "resources?"
Link Posted: 6/6/2002 5:55:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2002 5:57:36 PM EDT by Kingme]
I can't believe you guys are talking like you endorse fingerprinting. Are you all nuts? None of you have any inclination that if it's done to the "outsiders", then it will eventually be done to us "insiders". They will use this as a pretext to set up the databases and those databases will be large enough to include us Americans. You don't see this, huh? Keep in mind that fingerprints are your own personal property. If you relinguish YOUR personal property, then I'm going to have a hard time holding onto MY personal property. So you all will make it difficult on the rest of us. Wake up out there. Quit talking like a NWO'er. No fingerprints. [%(] Fingerprints [50]
Top Top