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Posted: 7/21/2009 7:47:40 AM EST
Funding that is.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 7:48:13 AM EST
Too much information!
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 7:49:10 AM EST
Just saw that on Fox news.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 7:51:11 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 7:53:28 AM EST
I hope they gave up the 22 for funding on the 35 or we will be kissing China's ass;now Barry is bragging about it.ASSHAT!
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 7:55:17 AM EST
That asshat just said that building more would be an inexcusable waste.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 7:56:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By AKSig:
That asshat just said that building more would be an inexcusable waste.


Oh the irony.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 7:56:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By CFII:
Well, At least we can hope they maintain funding for the F35. We need new aircraft.

I saw that Gates wants to increase the strength of the Army by 22,000.

Talk about mixed signals...


Gates wants to turn the military into "Internationa Police Force", not a real warfighting organization...
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 7:59:09 AM EST
Yet another entry for the "things we'll live to regret" list.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:00:33 AM EST
Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
I hope they gave up the 22 for funding on the 35 or we will be kissing China's ass;now Barry is bragging about it.ASSHAT!


Even though the F-35 will create jobs in Texas, I'd rather we kept producing the F-22 and cut the F-35. The F-22 is a far more capable fighter and any system we can install in the F-35 can be installed in the F-22 as well.

And the price difference between the two aircraft isn't all that great either.

Build a fighter jet that we already have 187 of and is vastly superior to anything on the planet, or build a fighter jet that costs 75% as much and isn't nearly as capable. Hmmm...

Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:02:36 AM EST
Bet funding isn't cut for Air Force 1 - that would mean no world tours & no dinner and a play in NYC.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:04:02 AM EST
I'm waiting for Obama to sign a surrender to the communists
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:04:25 AM EST
Thanks Judas, I mean John McCain!

So what Inf Div is going to be reactivated? 7th ID (Light) as a Stryker unit?
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:05:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
I hope they gave up the 22 for funding on the 35 or we will be kissing China's ass;now Barry is bragging about it.ASSHAT!


Even though the F-35 will create jobs in Texas, I'd rather we kept producing the F-22 and cut the F-35. The F-22 is a far more capable fighter and any system we can install in the F-35 can be installed in the F-22 as well.

And the price difference between the two aircraft isn't all that great either.

Build a fighter jet that we already have 187 of and is vastly superior to anything on the planet, or build a fighter jet that costs 75% as much and isn't nearly as capable. Hmmm...



I agree but with the 22 gone you gotta have something.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:05:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By Cav-Gunner:
Bet funding isn't cut for Air Force 1 - that would mean no world tours & no dinner and a play in NYC.


So true. Get him a Lear Jet. Why would he need protection anyways? Anyone that wants to destroy America would want to keep him alive, not kill him.

Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:05:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
I hope they gave up the 22 for funding on the 35 or we will be kissing China's ass;now Barry is bragging about it.ASSHAT!


Even though the F-35 will create jobs in Texas, I'd rather we kept producing the F-22 and cut the F-35. The F-22 is a far more capable fighter and any system we can install in the F-35 can be installed in the F-22 as well.

And the price difference between the two aircraft isn't all that great either.

Build a fighter jet that we already have 187 of and is vastly superior to anything on the planet, or build a fighter jet that costs 75% as much and isn't nearly as capable. Hmmm...



That leaves the Navy and Marines without an F-18 replacement.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:06:28 AM EST
So 1.6 billion on cutting edge uber-planes that will ensure our air SUPREMACY is an inexcusable waste, but 787 billion (OK ~700 billion left) is fine to "create or save" jobs, and keep unemployment below 8%(failed), and 1.5 TRILLION is a fucking down payment on health care!!!?!?!??!!??????????!!!!!
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:06:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:
Funding that is.


But on a brighter note, I'm sure that money will go to pay for Welfare fuck trophies, and crack cocaine?

Money well spent?
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:07:00 AM EST
just build more nukes... oh wait.

Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:07:12 AM EST
Bush deserves a large amount of blame for this as well. He had every opportunity to purchase more F-22s and he refused. He even held off on completing the order for airplanes that were already approved by Congress several times.

It seems to me like a lot of people in Washington have a severe dislike for the F-22. I don't know why, but oh well. We'll have to learn to live with the 187 that we have and the fleet of F-35s that will be coming.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:08:30 AM EST
Why is it that these things always happen when a democrap takes office?

Oh well, guess the Eagle will have to forge on for the foreseeable future. Until, at least, the UCAVs become operational.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:09:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Bush deserves a large amount of blame for this as well. He had every opportunity to purchase more F-22s and he refused. He even held off on completing the order for airplanes that were already approved by Congress several times.

It seems to me like a lot of people in Washington have a severe dislike for the F-22. I don't know why, but oh well. We'll have to learn to live with the 187 that we have and the fleet of F-35s that will be coming.


Maybe because the F-22 actually does something worthwhile.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:10:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By Neotopia:
Originally Posted By CFII:
Well, At least we can hope they maintain funding for the F35. We need new aircraft.

I saw that Gates wants to increase the strength of the Army by 22,000.

Talk about mixed signals...


Gates wants to turn the military into "Internationa Police Force", not a real warfighting organization...


And instead of the black berets they stole from the Rangers, they can now be issued the pretty blue berets.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:10:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Bush deserves a large amount of blame for this as well. He had every opportunity to purchase more F-22s and he refused. He even held off on completing the order for airplanes that were already approved by Congress several times.

It seems to me like a lot of people in Washington have a severe dislike for the F-22. I don't know why, but oh well. We'll have to learn to live with the 187 that we have and the fleet of F-35s that will be coming.


Honestly, if you look at most weapon platforms that go through DC (and they all do) you'll see that not many are welcomed with open arms.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:11:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/21/2009 8:11:28 AM EST by PanzerOfDoom]
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Bush deserves a large amount of blame for this as well. He had every opportunity to purchase more F-22s and he refused. He even held off on completing the order for airplanes that were already approved by Congress several times.

It seems to me like a lot of people in Washington have a severe dislike for the F-22. I don't know why, but oh well. We'll have to learn to live with the 187 that we have and the fleet of F-35s that will be coming.


Who'da figured, it's all Bush's fault.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:11:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By CFII:
Well, At least we can hope they maintain funding for the F35. We need new aircraft.

I saw that Gates wants to increase the strength of the Army by 22,000.

Talk about mixed signals...


It sounds to me like The Pentagon has lost it's foresight. The Pentagon has historically planned for the next war, but the focus here is on the current war and the threat of terrorism alone.

What good are super maneuverable stealth fighter jets against goat herders with rusted out AK-47s and makeshift bombs? 22,000 more ground troops would be a big help in Afghanistan though.

They aren't thinking about a conflict with a global power like China or Russia.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:12:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Bush deserves a large amount of blame for this as well. He had every opportunity to purchase more F-22s and he refused. He even held off on completing the order for airplanes that were already approved by Congress several times.

It seems to me like a lot of people in Washington have a severe dislike for the F-22. I don't know why, but oh well. We'll have to learn to live with the 187 that we have and the fleet of F-35s that will be coming.


Whoda figured, it's all Bush's fault.


I didn't say it was all Bush's fault, but let's be honest. Bush did a lot to put the kaibosh on the F-22.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:13:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By Aloxite:
Originally Posted By Cav-Gunner:
Bet funding isn't cut for Air Force 1 - that would mean no world tours & no dinner and a play in NYC.


So true. Get him a Lear Jet. Why would he need protection anyways? Anyone that wants to destroy America would want to keep him alive, not kill him.



It isn't just the President who travels on AF1. There are a shitload of staff that travel with him.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:13:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By vaquero357x2:
So 1.6 billion on cutting edge uber-planes that will ensure our air SUPREMACY is an inexcusable waste, but 787 billion (OK ~700 billion left) is fine to "create or save" jobs, and keep unemployment below 8%(failed), and 1.5 TRILLION is a fucking down payment on health care!!!?!?!??!!??????????!!!!!


From a LA times guy following the speech. I need to find the real transcript but....


"I reject the notion that we have to waste #defense dollars" on unneeded and outdated weapon systems, #Obama says of F-22s
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:15:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By DLoken:
Originally Posted By Aloxite:
Originally Posted By Cav-Gunner:
Bet funding isn't cut for Air Force 1 - that would mean no world tours & no dinner and a play in NYC.


So true. Get him a Lear Jet. Why would he need protection anyways? Anyone that wants to destroy America would want to keep him alive, not kill him.



It isn't just the President who travels on AF1. There are a shitload of staff that travel with him.


Charter a ragged-out DC-8 from some Mexican Drug Runners charter airline.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:16:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By CFII:
Well, At least we can hope they maintain funding for the F35. We need new aircraft.

I saw that Gates wants to increase the strength of the Army by 22,000.

Talk about mixed signals...


increase the strength of the USArmy by 22,000 "what" though - my fear is that it is 22,000 back office filing personnel who would otherwise be on unemployment, and who are exempt from combat duty and fitness requirements.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:16:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By vaquero357x2:
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
Bush deserves a large amount of blame for this as well. He had every opportunity to purchase more F-22s and he refused. He even held off on completing the order for airplanes that were already approved by Congress several times.

It seems to me like a lot of people in Washington have a severe dislike for the F-22. I don't know why, but oh well. We'll have to learn to live with the 187 that we have and the fleet of F-35s that will be coming.


Maybe because the F-22 actually does something worthwhile.


Or it could be that the 22 was a more of a political choice rather than an ability one. The 23 was a much better plane and it lost the war of politics. At the time the mfg of the 23 was less prone to cost overruns than lockeed.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:22:27 AM EST
I heard a general on fox news say the f-22 was a disaster. For every one hour of flight there is 30 hours of maintenance.It cannot fly in desert conditions and simply doesn't work. There was more but I can't remember. I'm as pro military as anybody here but if the thing doesn't work as advertised then kill it and make one that does.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:25:14 AM EST
Americans got exactly what they voted for. Next up on the chopping block will be F35 production, though we will not see it for several years, but no way are they going to build all projected.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:25:21 AM EST
Somewhere a Chinese general and a Russian general are both smiling.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:26:22 AM EST
Link?
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:26:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By DLoken:
Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
I hope they gave up the 22 for funding on the 35 or we will be kissing China's ass;now Barry is bragging about it.ASSHAT!


Even though the F-35 will create jobs in Texas, I'd rather we kept producing the F-22 and cut the F-35. The F-22 is a far more capable fighter and any system we can install in the F-35 can be installed in the F-22 as well.

And the price difference between the two aircraft isn't all that great either.

Build a fighter jet that we already have 187 of and is vastly superior to anything on the planet, or build a fighter jet that costs 75% as much and isn't nearly as capable. Hmmm...



That leaves the Navy and Marines without an F-18 replacement.

They have the Super Hornet. Its less than 10 years old. The F-15 and F-16 are 20-30 years old.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:31:17 AM EST
federal unemployment benefits aren't free. it's gotta come from somewhere
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:33:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By WoodDevil:
Why is it that these things always happen when a democrap takes office?

Oh well, guess the Eagle will have to forge on for the foreseeable future. Until, at least, the UCAVs become operational.


McCain would have done the same thing. He supported ending funding for new F-22s.

He said it was "about whether we will stop doing business as usual, and that is continuing to fund weapons systems that are no longer needed."


One F-22 costs $350 million dollars. It requires more than 30 hours of maintenance for every hour in the skies, pushing its hourly cost of flying to more than $44,000.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:34:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/21/2009 8:39:51 AM EST by DLoken]
Originally Posted By Ridge_Runner_5:

Originally Posted By DLoken:
Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
I hope they gave up the 22 for funding on the 35 or we will be kissing China's ass;now Barry is bragging about it.ASSHAT!


Even though the F-35 will create jobs in Texas, I'd rather we kept producing the F-22 and cut the F-35. The F-22 is a far more capable fighter and any system we can install in the F-35 can be installed in the F-22 as well.

And the price difference between the two aircraft isn't all that great either.

Build a fighter jet that we already have 187 of and is vastly superior to anything on the planet, or build a fighter jet that costs 75% as much and isn't nearly as capable. Hmmm...



That leaves the Navy and Marines without an F-18 replacement.

They have the Super Hornet. Its less than 10 years old. The F-15 and F-16 are 20-30 years old.


The Super Hornet hasn't replaced all of the original Hornets which are 20 years old. Also the Harrier. I wonder what kind of improved capabilities Marines on amphibious carriers will see in terms of air power.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:44:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By DLoken:
Originally Posted By Ridge_Runner_5:

Originally Posted By DLoken:
Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
I hope they gave up the 22 for funding on the 35 or we will be kissing China's ass;now Barry is bragging about it.ASSHAT!


Even though the F-35 will create jobs in Texas, I'd rather we kept producing the F-22 and cut the F-35. The F-22 is a far more capable fighter and any system we can install in the F-35 can be installed in the F-22 as well.

And the price difference between the two aircraft isn't all that great either.

Build a fighter jet that we already have 187 of and is vastly superior to anything on the planet, or build a fighter jet that costs 75% as much and isn't nearly as capable. Hmmm...



That leaves the Navy and Marines without an F-18 replacement.

They have the Super Hornet. Its less than 10 years old. The F-15 and F-16 are 20-30 years old.


The Super Hornet hasn't replaced all of the original Hornets which are 20 years old. Also the Harrier. I wonder what kind of improved capabilities Marines on amphibious carriers will see in terms of air power.

They also want to use the F-35 to replace the A-10, which is fuckin stupid, IMO. The F-35 is full of delicate electronics and classified materials...it would be much easier to shoot down an F-35 than it would an A-10...
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:44:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By evo462:
Originally Posted By AKSig:
That asshat just said that building more would be an inexcusable waste.


Oh the irony.


This will bite us. This is where the Obama and Third Party Voters' votes will lead to American deaths.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:46:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By Ridge_Runner_5:
The Super Hornet hasn't replaced all of the original Hornets which are 20 years old. Also the Harrier. I wonder what kind of improved capabilities Marines on amphibious carriers will see in terms of air power.

They also want to use the F-35 to replace the A-10, which is fuckin stupid, IMO. The F-35 is full of delicate electronics and classified materials...it would be much easier to shoot down an F-35 than it would an A-10...
[/quote]

Nothing we field to do the A-10's mission will replace the A-10. The days of making single mission aircraft are long behind us.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 8:49:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
I hope they gave up the 22 for funding on the 35 or we will be kissing China's ass;now Barry is bragging about it.ASSHAT!


Even though the F-35 will create jobs in Texas, I'd rather we kept producing the F-22 and cut the F-35. The F-22 is a far more capable fighter and any system we can install in the F-35 can be installed in the F-22 as well.

And the price difference between the two aircraft isn't all that great either.

Build a fighter jet that we already have 187 of and is vastly superior to anything on the planet, or build a fighter jet that costs 75% as much and isn't nearly as capable. Hmmm...



Sense isn't this administration's strong suite.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 9:00:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
Originally Posted By NIGHTSTALKER_O6:
I hope they gave up the 22 for funding on the 35 or we will be kissing China's ass;now Barry is bragging about it.ASSHAT!


Even though the F-35 will create jobs in Texas, I'd rather we kept producing the F-22 and cut the F-35. The F-22 is a far more capable fighter and any system we can install in the F-35 can be installed in the F-22 as well.

And the price difference between the two aircraft isn't all that great either.

Build a fighter jet that we already have 187 of and is vastly superior to anything on the planet, or build a fighter jet that costs 75% as much and isn't nearly as capable. Hmmm...

Not an expert at all of this stuff, but I surmise it maybe about the "ease of maintence." Newer machines contains fewer parts etc. Like your computer, decreasing the parts count could increase reliablity and decrease maintence costs.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 9:00:29 AM EST
WASHINGTON – The Senate voted Tuesday to halt production of the Air Force's missile-eluding F-22 Raptor fighter jets in a high-stakes, veto-laden showdown over President Barack Obama's efforts to shift defense spending to a next generation of smaller, single-engine F-35 Joint Strike Fighters.


Okay, while I'm still pissed off, at least they're not (yet) killing both aircraft.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 9:01:41 AM EST
President Carpetbagger
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 9:03:37 AM EST
John McCain needs to go sit in the corner.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 9:10:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By evo462:
John McCain needs to go sit in the corner.


Was he not on Fox this morning stating how it would be a mistake?Then he torpedoes it and Obama thanks him?
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 9:10:39 AM EST
As long as king Barry is in charge newsike this will be a monthly event.
Link Posted: 7/21/2009 9:13:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By stoner63a:
Thanks Judas, I mean John McCain!

So what Inf Div is going to be reactivated? 7th ID (Light) as a Stryker unit?


McCain was against the F22 because it isn't produced in Arizona. He has no jobs at stake. Barry cut the funding to punish Georgia for not voting for him, and Gates is supporting it in exchange for other concessions. If the 22 was made in New York you bet your ass more would be getting made.

The 22,000 is a temporary bump that is scheduled to disappear in three years. No ID is going to be reactivated. Gates/Obama already nixed the three additional BCTs that were scheduled to be stood up.
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