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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 10/14/2002 10:46:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/14/2002 9:32:51 PM EST by bastiat]
Ballistic fingerprinting is the latest VPC / brady center cause- echoed by the illiterate media. Thought I'd take it apart in a way the masses can understand: [url=http://www.flashbunny.org/content/fingerprint.html]Everything you need to know about Ballistic Fingerprinting in under 2 1/2 minutes.[/url] Your feedback would be appreciated. I've looked at it so many times while working on it that it's pretty much a blur to me [whacko] - I need some fresh eyes and opinions.
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 10:50:30 AM EST
I could really give a shit less about ballistic fingerprinting. Go ahead and let them try it and they will quickly find out how futile it is. How many hundreds of millions of guns are already in circulation? It will be a huge waste of money and then we can all say, "I told you so", as we shoot them the ballistic finger [;)]
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 10:56:02 AM EST
I don't know, I don't really like it. It gives the message, but it doesn't have any punch to it. I am sorry, I can't give any good advice on how to kick it up a notch, it is just very blah. Also the last part isn't very good either. There are plenty of people that are for both balistic finger printing and national id cards. They say what is the harm in both, so by using that as an ending, I don't think you are going to get your point across. Plus so what about defeating that. People's identitys are stolen all the time, and the 9/11 guys used their real names. But I digress.
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 11:08:59 AM EST
what if you scratch the barrel, muzzle, chamber. will you change the fingerprint? will this turn into a "could the suspect have grown a beard in X amount of time" type problem.
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 11:18:28 AM EST
Breaking it down, there are basically two components to ballistic fingerprinting; one method is by the rifling marks left on the bullet; the other is by unique markings left on the cartridge case. AFAIK, right now the only component being logged right now is the casing. Not that it really matters because as you pointed out, the characteristics of both components change after time through use, and can be deliberately altered. A barrel, firing pin or bolt change. Hand and fire lapping. A file and stone to the bolt face and firing pin, etc. Glocks with hexagonal rifling are very difficult to match. With human fingerprints no two are alike, even with twins. If a person tries to alter them they simply regenerate. How precise is firearms ballistics? If a number of handguns were made on the same day, with the same tools and machines by the same operators how much variation is there between the first and second firearm off the line? How much difference between the first and one-hundredth? Even if it were a foolproof science, ballistics finger printing is back door registration. A ballistic database does no good if there is no owners name to go with the firearm. Is anyone proposing a national database of tire marks or shoe prints? How about every citizen submitting a sample of their handwriting? I'm not sure if this is an urban legend or not but, back in the days when people used typewriters, typewriters in the Soviet Union were registered and a typewritten sample was kept on file so the authorites could trace the identity of a letters author.
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 11:24:44 AM EST
Bastiat... Change the identification card to a "Your Papieren Bitte!", and tie in the Nazi theme. You could even throw in an old Nazi photo of a checkpoint. Also, make the point that a useless database for solving crimes still makes an excellant database for confiscation! Their idea does have merit! After all, isn't that thier goal?
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 11:28:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/14/2002 11:34:23 AM EST by nightstalker]
You didn't mention sabots. Breaking it down, the theory will float for the same reasons other gun laws do. 1. It COULD solve a crime....sorta like the Brady law could be used to arrest felons (but isn't). It's not DNA though and a good attorney will get borderlines and conflicts thrown out. 2. If just one life could be saved...etc. All in all it is meant to complicate the lives of gun manufacturers, retailers, owners, and eventually gunsmiths. It will lead to more laws that require re-testing for repaired guns or maybe prohibitions on modifications. Those leetle cameras in your house?....they're for your safety....
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 11:36:04 AM EST
Thanks for the feedback - I changed the id card and some of the wording to look a little more 'big brother'-ish. The 'citizen' now has a warrant out for non-compliance of DNA submission. hmm, maybe I need some sound in the background - flight of the valkeries (sp?) or a brief hitler speach. Maybe the sound ofboots on the march.... Brass is a separate issue and I didn't really have enough time to list it all- but it's one that can simply be defeated by saying "revolver".
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 11:37:28 AM EST
Here's a little more... What if you reload brass more than once? What if you reload your own "scratched" bullets? What if you polish the areas that touch the bullet & case?
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 11:39:09 AM EST
Will you get a different fingerprint if you use a different type case, firing pin, primer, etc.? (Aluminum, steel, etc.?)
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 12:10:13 PM EST
If ballistic fingerprinting works so well, how come neither NY nor MD, which have the system, have not yet caught even one criminal from it? Of course, in these fascist states our guns are already registered.
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 12:25:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen: If ballistic fingerprinting works so well, how come neither NY nor MD, which have the system, have not yet caught even one criminal from it? Of course, in these fascist states our guns are already registered.
View Quote
Their answer would state that the gun came from another state that did not have ballistic fingerprinting... or that it was an older weapon that didn't get registered...
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 1:04:16 PM EST
I like it, except the screen where you show the bullet spinning from the rifling. I couldn't read it fast enough, so you should either extend the time on that screen or say, "Click to continue." Also, as for the national ID thing, have a look at: http://www.bureaucrash.com/campaigns/iamnotanumber/propaganda/flyer1.pdf They call their ID card the "permission to live ID" which is a nice touch, IMO. I also liked how you added the part where a warrent is issued for him not submitting his DNA. That's a good way to bring to the forefront the kind of shit that a national ID scheme would entail. I would skip any references to Hitler. Comparing current policies to Nazi Germany, while true, are becoming cliche. I assume you're targeting people who don't know what to think about ballistic fingerprinting, and those same people would likely label you as an extremist loony if you bring in the Nazi comparisons like that without plenty of supporting evidence (more evidence than you can provide in "2 1/2 minutes." Nice work! Now the trick is getting people to actually WATCH the flash movies who are fence-sitters on the issue.
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 1:14:50 PM EST
A barrel mfg uses a broach or button to push/cut rifling into a barrel. They cost a great deal of $$ to make, they are expected rifle a great many barrels before they go tits up. What they are doing in essence is producing 5-10,000 barrels which have the exact same rifling as the button imparts on each one. What's "unique" about that?
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 1:21:19 PM EST
That should be required reading.
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 1:27:02 PM EST
Bastiat, I liked it. One typo that you have: On the second flash page, you use the word "groves" instead of the correct "grooves". A grove is a collection of trees. Also, the last "ID card" page, you may want to have it display for a few more seconds for it to sink in. Otherwise, good work!
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 3:20:56 PM EST
Bastiat, There is no magic in ballistic fingerprinting. Your at a crime scene and find a bullet. Put it into evidence. You then have to find the weapon used. Test fire the weapon into a water tank, retrieve the bullet, compare to bullet pulled from scene. If its a perfect match, you have your weapon. If just the land marks match without the striations lining up, no match. Also works for casings and primers. The breech face has unique tool marks, the firing pin has unique tool marks. Like I said though, you have to have the weapon it was fired from to get a match.
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 9:23:44 PM EST
Okay, some changes: Shell case matching is now explained and debunked. The movie is stretched out a little and typos have been fixed (hopefully) I know I'm not going to convice the 'true believers'. Like the five minute handbook says, it's usually not even worth trying. My main goal is to counteract the recent VPC inspired call for ballistic fingerprinting. If you talk to someone on the fence who thinks it sounds like a good idea, show them the movie and let them discover what a crock it is.
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 9:44:58 PM EST
I'm not so sure about the DNA registration screen at the end. That seems to be a stretch. At least to the average non gun lover. What I mean is you are confusing people at the end. Focus on one issue and how it sucks. Don't confuse people by bring up a second issue at the end.
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 10:28:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/14/2002 10:31:11 PM EST by bastiat]
Most people don't give a damn if every gun was registered if they were told it would make them safe. But they need to see it for what it really is - a system that doesn't work and is expensive. That's what the first parts are for. The final part (slightly foreshadowed, to sound like I know what I'm doing) ties it in to their own lives - treating law abiding citizens as criminals before they've even been suspected of committing a crime. All backed up by the force of the law if you fail to comply. Here's the basic premise: Strike 1: Show it can be defeated easily. Strike 2: Show It's expensive and hasn't worked yet. Strike 3: Show that if they could do it to gun owners, they could do it to everyone. Without it, there's no real ending. It just sort of peters out - no drama, no climax - nothing to make the fence sitter think. ...and that makes me a sad panda...
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 11:23:26 PM EST
Very Nice Work! Short and to the point yet gets all the essential points across. One idea: let new screens last about 3 secs. longer. I read pretty fast and they go just right for me; for others it's maybe too fast. Guard against adding any new material. Short and sweet is the name of the game for our short attention spans. Also, it loads really fast on my modem so be wary of adding new complex graphics. I guess I'm saying that you have it right the way it is.
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