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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/13/2004 2:36:16 PM EST
What have we really gained?
The ability to have "evil" features on our weapons, and a possible price drop in regular capacity magazines.

What is next?
Jubilation and complacency, while the anti-gunners simply pause for a bit, and take advantage of our distraction and happiness to prepare the next round. They have always believed in incrementalism, and always will. Just look at what was said when Brady was passed; "This was never meant to be an end in itself; this is just the nose of the camel pushing into the tent." Or something very close, anyway. We, on the other hand, want it all now. For instance, H.R. 218 gets reviled, when it could be used as a stepping stone--remember, H.R.990 ain't dead--but no one seems to care enough to talk about it, let alone push for it. (For those who forgot, it was to be to CCW holders what 218 was to LEOs.)

Instead, we spent our time pushing for allowing the AWB to sunset. Not for a repeal, mind you, just for allowing a piece of legislation with a sunset provision to do so; we seem to have been happy to forget that it was designed to go away on it's own, anyway. And now we celebrate a sort of return to the status qou prior to '94. Never mind that several states now how their own AWBs, and others are looking to do the same. Never mind that in our craving for the AWB to go away we have put forth wherever we could that the ban never affected lethality, just a few cosmetic features. What about all the ignorant "sheeple" who think our "Assault Weapons" are deadlier than anyone should need, or that they fire "hundreds of rounds" a minute? Now they know that the AWB was merely cosmetic, they're going to be clamoring for more restrictive laws themselves--after all, they still perceive the weapons the same way, we've just educated about how little the ban did.

Now is not the time for celebration. If Kerry gets in, we can rest assured that more restrictive measures are on the way. If Bush gets back in, we can still rest assured of the same. Some think that Bush would willingly go along with this. I don't know, but I do know that even he has to live and work in our political system, and sometimes trade-offs are unavoidable. And even if he gets back in, and holds the line against new measures, he isn't going to be there forever.

Now is not the time for celebration. Now is the time for us to adopt the methods of our foes. We must push for H.R.990. We must push for the easing of the import ban. We must push for repeal of '86. We must push for revamping '68. We must go after '34. We must continue to push, little by little, baby steps if it's all we can manage, until we have restored the Second Amendment, tattered and soiled though it is now, to it's original condition.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:39:34 PM EST
WHAT SUNSET?
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:40:45 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:41:22 PM EST
... At least it was a step in the RIGHT direction FOR ONCE!

... Must stay vigilant though
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:42:34 PM EST

I agree with you that we need to keep on our toes and keep pressing for more reasonable gun laws to replace some of those in effect. But I'll still take the victory.

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:43:19 PM EST
Man, there is always one party pooper in the bunch.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:43:21 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:44:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By imcoltsguy:
I agree with you that we need to keep on our toes and keep pressing for more reasonable gun laws to replace some of those in effect. But I'll still take the victory.




+1
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:45:53 PM EST
As long as such celebration doesn't blind folks to what is still being done by anti-gunners, I say go for it.

But we CANNOT rest on our laurels--this was not a victory. It was a defeat; the opposing forces just ran out steam for a moment, and we "retook the foothill," so to speak. But the next wave is massing..............if all we do is celebrate the foothill, we are going to get knocked out of the fight when they come charging back.

That might sound paranoid, but I believe it.

The objective remains folks; are we gonna try to take it?
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:47:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By green18:
WHAT SUNSET?hock.gif

Yeah I was wondering myself. On the plus side, at least you can acquire the parts now and assemble them out of state (PA and VT come to mind) at some future date. There is nothing in the New York State law prohibiting possession of parts as long as they are not assembled into a "post-ban" configuration.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:49:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 2:50:00 PM EST by Airwolf]
I don't think ANY of us here are going to simply say "Oh, well it's over. I guess I can go back to being a sheep again."

Not a fucking chance.

Those of us who can are going to exercise our RIGHTS as law-abiding American citizens and do a little gloating for a bit.

The battle is not over. It never wlll be over as long as the socialists and their toadies exist. There will ALWAYS be those looking to exercise control over the masses. There will ALWAYS be those that seek power and will fuck over whoever raise a voice against them.

We have proven that the system can be beaten. We've established communications and support links (via the Internet) that didn't exist when the '94 ban came up. The bastards that sit on their fat asses inside the Beltway (and in state capitols) will never be able to pull the wool over our eyes again as they did in '94. It's a new ballgame. The lessons have been hard won and will not be soon forgotten.

Yes, there will be other fights, nasty ones and they will happen sooner than later but, for this moment we need to enjoy the victory. We need to note the insanity that the left is spewing forth, the scripted and total LIES they continue to scream to the world. Our victory was just and they simply cannot handle that.

Put those "evil features" back on your rifles, stock up on standard capacity mags, enjoy today.

You've earned it.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:50:55 PM EST
Do people here actually understand the legislative process now? It was really getting old trying to explain to people here exactly why the ban would sunset. It was not a difficult concept.

Consider this an "I told you so."
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:52:34 PM EST
Are you pissing on our parade ALREADY! Couldn't you wait at least a couple of days?!


No body likes a Party Pooper!


However your words are true. Feinstien and the gungrabbers have already promised in several interviews today that they will be back with stronger legislation with a wider scope on banning guns.


Remain vigilant
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:52:40 PM EST
Though the actual effect of the ban is indeed minor, this is a cause for celebration for another reason. The fact that the AWB was allowed to sunset with no replacement bill even coming close to passing is a sign that gun control, as a nationwide political movement, is dead. We're on the offensive now. We have the House, the Senate, and the White House. It's time for us to push our pro-gun bills and the anti-gunners can whine in frustration. Hoo-ra!
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:59:35 PM EST
That's the problem, mace, it isn't dead.
I'm not trying to be a "party-pooper" but what I say has merit, as the antis are getting ready for thier next push--and we have unwittingly helped them by blasting out to the fence-sitters that the old AWB didn't actually affect the weapons themselves at all, from a practical standpoint. Now the folks who have no idea about guns are gonna be clamoring that the next AWB shouldn't just ban "evil features," but should also ban possession and/or transfer of "pre-ban" mags and weapons.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 3:01:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By BangStick1:

... Feinstien and the gungrabbers have already promised in several interviews today that they will be back with stronger legislation with a wider scope on banning guns.


Remain vigilant



... Already happening. In Arizona no less! PROPOSED BAN
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 3:03:10 PM EST
Espc. if you live in NY...............................................
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 3:06:57 PM EST
I for one have nothing to celebrate. The sunset of the 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban only meant the introduction of a bill to replace it in the State of Michigan with the most Draconian gun controll law I have ever seen! This bill would allow the State Police to develop storage requirements for owners of registered assault weapons, and subject owners to annual inspections by the State Police to ensure storage compliance.

I had about 12 hours of rest before joining into another fight.

Demonrat bastages!

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 3:07:01 PM EST
Me, I'm not a pundit, nor a scholar; I'm just a regular Joe who thinks he's walked around the block a few times in this life. But I respectfully disagree! I think what we gained in this fight was a big psychological win. I really think the anti-gunners were shocked that their pet project didn't get renewed. You could tell by how high pitched their rhetoric became!

I think they will rethink their next stratagem; their 'sky is falling' mantra is not working.

It's more than full-cap mags and evil features on a rifle. It's the shock value of Feinstein, Brady, Schumer, Kennedy, et al having this thing backfire on them.

Enjoy this victory, but keep your powder dry and your lookouts posted- we need to get ready for their next 'wave 'a massing'.

I agree with you about tactics, they brought this on incrementally; I believe we can use the same tactic and incrementally get rid the unconstitutional gun laws.
MOLON LABE!

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 3:13:19 PM EST
It's reverse incrementalism. Savor each small victory and push for the next.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 3:13:35 PM EST
One thing that we now have to our advantage that we didn't have leading up to the `94 ban is the internet. Ever since the internet became mainstream, it has become much more difficult for the grabbers to just spew their lies uncontested.

I'm celebrating too, but it's not as if I don't expect another attempt at our rights. Just keep in mind that it is a different game now that there is a venue for information exchange that they don't have any control over (yet).
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 3:18:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By scotchymcdrinkerbean:
Now is not the time for celebration. Now is the time for us to adopt the methods of our foes. We must push for H.R.990. We must push for the easing of the import ban. We must push for repeal of '86. We must push for revamping '68. We must go after '34. We must continue to push, little by little, baby steps if it's all we can manage, until we have restored the Second Amendment, tattered and soiled though it is now, to it's original condition.



I am already going after these. I have my all important contact list of congressmen. Letters, phone calls and faxes should start rolling out this week.

Youre right we must keep pressing forward.

Shawn
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 3:18:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By mace:
We have the House, the Senate, and the White House.



The Republican Party has the Senate..."we" don't... www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=2&vote=00024
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 3:25:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By scotchymcdrinkerbean:
What have we really gained?
The ability to have "evil" features on our weapons, and a possible price drop in regular capacity magazines.

What is next?
Jubilation and complacency, while the anti-gunners simply pause for a bit, and take advantage of our distraction and happiness to prepare the next round. They have always believed in incrementalism, and always will. Just look at what was said when Brady was passed; "This was never meant to be an end in itself; this is just the nose of the camel pushing into the tent." Or something very close, anyway. We, on the other hand, want it all now. For instance, H.R. 218 gets reviled, when it could be used as a stepping stone--remember, H.R.990 ain't dead--but no one seems to care enough to talk about it, let alone push for it. (For those who forgot, it was to be to CCW holders what 218 was to LEOs.)

Instead, we spent our time pushing for allowing the AWB to sunset. Not for a repeal, mind you, just for allowing a piece of legislation with a sunset provision to do so; we seem to have been happy to forget that it was designed to go away on it's own, anyway. And now we celebrate a sort of return to the status qou prior to '94. Never mind that several states now how their own AWBs, and others are looking to do the same. Never mind that in our craving for the AWB to go away we have put forth wherever we could that the ban never affected lethality, just a few cosmetic features. What about all the ignorant "sheeple" who think our "Assault Weapons" are deadlier than anyone should need, or that they fire "hundreds of rounds" a minute? Now they know that the AWB was merely cosmetic, they're going to be clamoring for more restrictive laws themselves--after all, they still perceive the weapons the same way, we've just educated about how little the ban did.

Now is not the time for celebration. If Kerry gets in, we can rest assured that more restrictive measures are on the way. If Bush gets back in, we can still rest assured of the same. Some think that Bush would willingly go along with this. I don't know, but I do know that even he has to live and work in our political system, and sometimes trade-offs are unavoidable. And even if he gets back in, and holds the line against new measures, he isn't going to be there forever.

Now is not the time for celebration. Now is the time for us to adopt the methods of our foes. We must push for H.R.990. We must push for the easing of the import ban. We must push for repeal of '86. We must push for revamping '68. We must go after '34. We must continue to push, little by little, baby steps if it's all we can manage, until we have restored the Second Amendment, tattered and soiled though it is now, to it's original condition.




Link Posted: 9/13/2004 3:33:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By 3-7INFANTRY:

Originally Posted By scotchymcdrinkerbean:
Now is not the time for celebration. Now is the time for us to adopt the methods of our foes. We must push for H.R.990. We must push for the easing of the import ban. We must push for repeal of '86. We must push for revamping '68. We must go after '34. We must continue to push, little by little, baby steps if it's all we can manage, until we have restored the Second Amendment, tattered and soiled though it is now, to it's original condition.



I am already going after these. I have my all important contact list of congressmen. Letters, phone calls and faxes should start rolling out this week.

Youre right we must keep pressing forward.

Shawn



I would suggest that we go slow.
I have not told my senators and congressman that I think ALL citizens should be able to own (keep) and carry (bear) what they will. I take a page from the anti's book--I only push for one thing at a time. That one thing is right now H.R.990.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 3:36:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By scotchymcdrinkerbean:

Originally Posted By 3-7INFANTRY:

Originally Posted By scotchymcdrinkerbean:
Now is not the time for celebration. Now is the time for us to adopt the methods of our foes. We must push for H.R.990. We must push for the easing of the import ban. We must push for repeal of '86. We must push for revamping '68. We must go after '34. We must continue to push, little by little, baby steps if it's all we can manage, until we have restored the Second Amendment, tattered and soiled though it is now, to it's original condition.



I am already going after these. I have my all important contact list of congressmen. Letters, phone calls and faxes should start rolling out this week.

Youre right we must keep pressing forward.

Shawn



I would suggest that we go slow.
I have not told my senators and congressman that I think ALL citizens should be able to own (keep) and carry (bear) what they will. I take a page from the anti's book--I only push for one thing at a time. That one thing is right now H.R.990.



Ok. Then HR 990 it is then.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 3:42:06 PM EST
Just my suggestion--if we go for all we want, then we're gonna get kicked to the curb as nutjobs.

Just like the antis would've if they'd gone for total prohibition instead of '68, '86, Brady, AWB........
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 4:46:03 PM EST
Not to piss on anyone’s Parade , but the Fineswine crew are already saying in interviews
that they will use their errors in the Clinton bill to write a new one without the loopholes .

Like it or not the sheep outnumber us , and then you have those "Gun Owners" ( The tweed shooting jacket $5000 shotgun type ) that see no need for anyone to own anything more then a Gold inlayed Over-Under .

If Bush wins we may get a short reprieve , but eventually the Dems will seat a President and take back over congress . There are some real political issues out there like Jobs , the economy Health Care Costs , Social Security , and the slipping Dollar that could cause OPEC to use the Euro to base oil prices on . All of which could spell doom to those in power .

I'm pretty sure we will never see a seizure type law , but I won't be wasting any time building up my reserves

Link Posted: 9/14/2004 11:55:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By scotchymcdrinkerbean:
That's the problem, mace, it isn't dead.
I'm not trying to be a "party-pooper" but what I say has merit, as the antis are getting ready for thier next push--and we have unwittingly helped them by blasting out to the fence-sitters that the old AWB didn't actually affect the weapons themselves at all, from a practical standpoint. Now the folks who have no idea about guns are gonna be clamoring that the next AWB shouldn't just ban "evil features," but should also ban possession and/or transfer of "pre-ban" mags and weapons.



But those bills will never get anywhere, at least at the Federal level. What I mean by gun control being dead is that the gun grabbers don't have anywhere near the strength to pass laws anymore, not that there's none of the left. There will always be a few gun grabbers here and there, but they won't be passing bills at the Federal level any time soon.

The fact that the AWB didn't affect weapons much is the point. This was a very weak anti-gun law. A renewal was proposed in the wake of the sunset. That renewal never even came close to passing. It never even made it to the floor of the House. It made it to the floor of the Senate, and was defeated 90-8. Senate voting record The timing for a new ban is only going to get worse. People won't see much need for a renewal when a few months pass and we never see the "AKs littering the street" that the gun grabbers promised. Given that they had no chance of passing a weak ban at the best time for it, how are they going to pass a stricter ban later? They don't have a chance.

Because of that, we now have a chance to roll back some of the worst gun control laws. The fact that it was an amendment to PLCA that they were fighting about instead of a plain old AWB bill shows that we are winning. If people would stop living in fear of the next ban and start trying to get our bills passed, we might have a chance of rolling back gun control for good.
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