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Posted: 6/3/2008 4:32:22 PM EST
This was not on the military channel, what were the 10 worst combat rifles of all time>>>
Any ideas, was it any rifle made by the french and please no I hate Glock rants ( They don't make combat rifles}.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:33:21 PM EST
Hi Point
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:34:03 PM EST
Anything bolt action
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:34:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/3/2008 4:35:14 PM EST by machinisttx]
Carcano was one of them.

It's not that it wasn't well made, because they really were, but that the trigger is so craptacular as to make any sort of precision with the rifle impossible.


ETA-- Add the Dreyse(not sure on the spelling) needle gun to that.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:34:44 PM EST
There's the Chauchat, but it wasn't a rifle, it was a machine gun.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:34:48 PM EST
AC556

L85

FAMAS

Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:35:01 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:35:08 PM EST
Do you want this limited to rifles that served in combat or to include experimental weapons?
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:36:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/3/2008 4:36:58 PM EST by FrankSymptoms]
The CHAUCHAT submachine gunwas reputed to be the awfulest thing to come out of France since... well.. stinky cheese. They made us use it in WWI.

ETA

LOL everyone's picking on that rifle!
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:36:41 PM EST
{AK Fanboy} the M16 {AK Fanyboy}

{AR Fanboy} The AK {AR Fanboy}


Besides that...i would say anything bolt action.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:36:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/3/2008 4:37:13 PM EST by Matt_The_Hokie]
ooops DT.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:36:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By skinnysarge79:
AC556

L85

FAMAS



Why the FAMAS? Never even seen one in person, just curious.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:37:04 PM EST
The topic is combat rifles not expermental rifles ....That is another topic
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:38:33 PM EST
WW2 French Mas 36. Worst ever bolt action made......
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:39:19 PM EST
Pretty much everything ever designed by the Chinese.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:39:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By machinisttx:
Carcano was one of them.

It's not that it wasn't well made, because they really were, but that the trigger is so craptacular as to make any sort of precision with the rifle impossible.


John F. Kennedy would disagree.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:39:25 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:39:51 PM EST
I'd put the SKS on the list. Low mag capacity, cumbersome reloads, and an anemic round for the weight and length of the gun. The AK was far better.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:39:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By FrankSymptoms:
The CHAUCHAT submachine gunwas reputed to be the awfulest thing to come out of France since... well.. stinky cheese. They made us use it in WWI.

ETA

LOL everyone's picking on that rifle!


I've also hear that the Reising machine gun was pretty bad. It had several points of failure (can't remember them all now) such as a place where ANY dirt would jam it up. Its hi-cap magazines were pretty bad, too, as they were an early experiment in tapered magazines that just didn't work out well.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:40:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By skinnysarge79:
AC556

L85

FAMAS



Dude, I like ALL of those rifles

whadafux up?
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:41:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/3/2008 4:47:38 PM EST by WildBoar]
Mas 36 with the folding alum stock

eta
Arisaka
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:41:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/3/2008 4:42:39 PM EST by Haterade]
Arisaka... late war. A true weapon of death upon whomever wields it.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:41:39 PM EST
Enfield L85
early Australian AUG (not the Austrian version---Australia made their AUGs on their own equipment and fucked it up for the first few years)
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:43:00 PM EST
That chinese AR clone with the suspciously penis like forearm.

The L86 (or whatever the name of that british bullpup rifle was)

The Arisaka however all WWII Jap small arms stunk.

Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:43:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By FrankSymptoms:

I've also hear that the Reising machine gun was pretty bad. It had several points of failure (can't remember them all now) such as a place where ANY dirt would jam it up. Its hi-cap magazines were pretty bad, too, as they were an early experiment in tapered magazines that just didn't work out well.


Having fired one I can confirm that they are an interesting, historic, complete piece of shit.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:43:55 PM EST

M-16





Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:47:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/3/2008 4:50:45 PM EST by WildBoar]

Originally Posted By Haterade:
Arisaka... late war. A true weapon of death upon whomever wields it.


I agree. What a turd of a rifle. At least teh back of the bolt could double as a meat tenderizer. I am adding that to my list.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:47:51 PM EST
Krag -- not a bad gun, but proved to be inferior to the Spanish Mausers
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:50:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By TwoTwentyThree:
Krag -- not a bad gun, but proved to be inferior to the Spanish Mausers


I almost added the Krag, BUT I owned one and LOVED it. As you said, it was actually a fine rifle but the Mauser was better. I don't think the Krag qualifies as a bad rifle though, just not as good as its opponent.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:52:01 PM EST
#1. ChatuChat, it may have been a light MG but it was so bad it can't be ignored, it is the worst, and sinc it fired single shot most of the time if at all lets call it a rifle

2. Mas 36, awkward bolt, bad trigger, crappy bayonet, and 1936 is a bad time for a new bolt action

3. Egyptian Rashhed in 7.62x39, lets take a full size rifle give it crappy sights and put an imtermedfiate round in it.

4.Canda Ross rifle, strait pull action + weak locking lugs + a full power cartridge = hole in head

5. India's INSAS= A crappy FAL hybrid so bad they ended up replacing them with AK's

6. Italian Caricano= good well built rifle, put crappy sights, and a crappy trigger on it and you have nothing.

7. Japanese Type 99= Bad saftey, too long for the soldiers of the country, bad trigger and lots of un needed additions, like Anti-aircraft sights on a bolt action, a loose rattling dust cover and a wire bipod most soldiers ripped off.

8. USA XM-29 OCIW= this would be higher if it made it past prototype stages, in all the rifle weighed about 15lbs, and was just trying to get a weapon system to do too much

9. Germany G-41= Look at the operating system then add poorly made parts and it was just to heavy.

10. Britian SA-80= I held several in Kuwait it feels flimsy the scope is awful, and they have a reputation of jamming alot.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:52:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/3/2008 4:52:24 PM EST by TwoTwentyThree]
The Krag has the smoothest action of any bolt-action rifle I've ever handled, but it isn't strong enough for the higher powered cartridges. It is a pleasure to shoot on the range, though
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:04:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By Schulze:
Anything bolt action


-1, I'd take a Lee-Enfield today and just avoid close-in fights whenever possible (say, less than 200m.)
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:06:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By Schulze:
Anything bolt action



Like the 98K and the Springfield 06?
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:08:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/3/2008 5:09:11 PM EST by NeedMoreAmmo]

Originally Posted By SD307:
#1. ChatuChat,...
#2
#3...etc.


+1 to that list, except the OICW was not an issue weapon. In it's place I would substitue the Ferguson Rifle with the screw type falling block. Unsafe,and subject to turning into a solid block of rust thanks to black powder.

I would add that the Carcano and Arisaka were not particularly bad rifles at the start of the war, but an obsolte design coupled with late war manufacturing "efficiencies" made them both pieces of crap. In fact most late war Japanese firearms were just plain unsafe as well. The type 94 pistol was a good example. I am sure it had something to do with constant bombing of the arms factories which produced these montrosities, but the lack of quality steel late in the war also contributed to some weapons being junk.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:16:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By ME2112:

Originally Posted By Schulze:
Anything bolt action


-1, I'd take a Lee-Enfield today and just avoid close-in fights whenever possible (say, less than 200m.)


Ok. Thanks for supporting my statement.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:18:00 PM EST
M-14.

Pointless rifle that failed at what it was intended for. Heavy, not all that reliable, not too ergonomic.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:25:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By Schulze:

Originally Posted By ME2112:

Originally Posted By Schulze:
Anything bolt action


-1, I'd take a Lee-Enfield today and just avoid close-in fights whenever possible (say, less than 200m.)


Ok. Thanks for supporting my statement.


For the time they were used bolt actions were king. Not much of a place on a modern battlefield but prior to the M1 and SMGs they were top of the line.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:33:25 PM EST
1. Anything made by the Japanese during WWII or before

2. Any French Machine gun

3. Those stupid rifles used by middle eastern nomads (not the AK's)

4. The German assault rifle that was made with a curved barrel to shoot around corners
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:42:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By ME2112:

Originally Posted By Schulze:
Anything bolt action


-1, I'd take a Lee-Enfield today and just avoid close-in fights whenever possible (say, less than 200m.)


Unless you're limiting your fighting to, say, Afghanistan, you'd be at a serious disadvantage in general combat, as most combat is in cities at distances less than 200 m.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:47:08 PM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By JoseyWales:
1. Anything made by the Japanese during WWII or before


You are aware that the Arisaka 38 had the strongest action of any rifle in WWII, right? The Type 99 was a close second. PO Ackley rebarreled an Enfield, Springfield, Mauser, and Arisaka to a common caliber and started upping the charge til they blew. The Arisaka was the only one left standing. The pressure bulged the barrel, but the action survived. No other rifle could do that. The Arisaka at it's core is a fine rifle, but they got very shitty at the end of the war. They had some pistols and machine guns that were clunkers, but don't shit on the Arisaka.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:50:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By JoseyWales:
snip

4. The German assault rifle that was made with a curved barrel to shoot around corners


IIRC that was an accessory for the STG 44 so the attachment was a bad idea not the rifle it was attached too.

Correct me if im wrong.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:50:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By tankdriver:
WW2 French Mas 36. Worst ever bolt action made......


You are nuts. Good rifle.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:53:00 PM EST
Worst by era.

Pre WWI- Krag
WWI- All were good but I would have to say the Carcano just because it is the least good.

WWII- Jungle carbine

Cold war- LA85 1.0

Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:54:33 PM EST
M1 Carbine with that shit .30 caliber bullet
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 5:54:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By Schulze:
I'd put the SKS on the list. Low mag capacity, cumbersome reloads, and an anemic round for the weight and length of the gun. The AK was far better.


Actually it is not too bad as a carbine. The worst thing about it is the sights.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 10:18:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By tankdriver:
WW2 French Mas 36. Worst ever bolt action made......


Why would you say that? Just because it was introduced in the same year as the Garand? Instant obsolescence?

Or that it was made by selecting all the worst design features of WW1 or earlier bolt guns and combining them all in one gun?

(yeah it was my entry also)

The rifles were ok, but the decision to go with single shot rifles instead of known and producible repeaters at Springfield at the beginning of the Civil War.

The Trapdoor Springfield at the END of it's service life, or what should have been the end. Hence it's use against Mausers in the Span-Am War, and remaining in some NG armories until the beginning of WW2 and when it actually got issued a few times for beach guards. A pretty good rifle for it's time, but horrendously obsolete by then
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 10:22:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By WildBoar:

Originally Posted By TwoTwentyThree:
Krag -- not a bad gun, but proved to be inferior to the Spanish Mausers


I almost added the Krag, BUT I owned one and LOVED it. As you said, it was actually a fine rifle but the Mauser was better. I don't think the Krag qualifies as a bad rifle though, just not as good as its opponent.


You might say it was obsolete when issued, but it had some nice features. How about if you put the Krag magazine using a Mauser style bolt? Now that would have been a real nice rifle. (I had a Norwegian Krag in 6.5x55 and it was fun)
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 10:24:26 PM EST
Look to the French in any time period and at WWII for the Japanese for your answers.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 10:26:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By TwoTwentyThree:
The Krag has the smoothest action of any bolt-action rifle I've ever handled, but it isn't strong enough for the higher powered cartridges. It is a pleasure to shoot on the range, though


Try the SMLE.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 10:27:54 PM EST
M14
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 10:31:58 PM EST
Definately putting the late war Arisaka up here.
Can we do specific parts of rifles? If so, that damned safety on the Nagants
The sks, while a fine rifle, was really obsolete before it even hit the battlefield.
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