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Posted: 5/8/2004 12:33:57 PM EST
Yesterday I heard Boortz read an e-mail that said:

"Tied naked to a bed with womens' underwear pulled over your head? That's not torture- that's a frat party!"
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 12:48:10 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 12:55:20 PM EST
Depends on who's panties are on your head. If its any of the women in the pictures I saw, I'd call it torture.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 1:02:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2004 1:04:28 PM EST by THISISME]
Sounds like torture to me.

Here is what was going on according to the International Red Cross and the Military investigating officers based upon confessions of those involved.

Prisoners were hooded and stripped and handcuffed. Many of the prisoners were cuffed so tightly that the cuffs pierced the skin and damaged or severed the nerves.

They were beaten with pistols/rifle butts and clubs. Repeatedly kicked and punched (one of the reported dead died after being repeatedly kicked.)

The prisoners were forced to masturbate. They were forced into positions of sexual contact with others. The prisoners were sodomized with broomsticks and large light sticks.

At least one female prisoner was raped while hooded and cuffed. It has not been determined yet how many guards were involved.

Prisoners were told that if they did not comply their families would be raped and murdered by US troops.

Electrocution was used as a form of torture.

Chemicals were used to burn prisoners.

No one has copped to the 25 deaths yet and at least twelve appear to be murders.

All of these things were done before any American/coalition or contractor bodies were dragged through the streets.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 3:12:11 PM EST
OK, here's my stand on this stuff.

Any soldier guilty of beating, raping, electrocuting, burning, or killing a prisoner should be tried and if convicted, punished accordingly. These cases are getting a lot of attention, but I'm still of the opinion (yep, opinion, I wasn't there) that these incidents are the exception rather than the rule.

Most of the stuff I read about, except for being forced into mock (?) homosexual acts wasn't really worse than when I went to survival school, and I'm no Rambo. The people subjected to the humiliation, sleep deprivation, and so forth will walk out without any marks on their bodies. Their main complaint will boil down to, "They hurt my feelings."

So, I see the prisoner treatment falling into these two categories, 1) Bona fide abuse, and 2) Making them uncomfortable. The cases need to be dealt with individually, rather than painting the whole situation with a broad brush which is easy but intellectually lazy.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 4:42:40 PM EST
so what your saying is that all these things were done..while IRAQ was still very combative..and even more dangerous place than it is today..

i think some people " NOT HERE" have a very illusional picture of what life is like for a soldier in IRAQ.

i dont think they realize what the place is like for a serviceman or woman.


like many others...
certainly not an AUSCHWITZ..or DAUCHAU..

i do beleive..that the MP's were told to soften..the prisoners up..

granted..things could have been doen differently..

LIKE NO FVCKIN PICS...or VIDEOS..
good god..what were they thinking..


not one muslim...gasped in horror from watching the madness is mogadishou...very few expressed sympathies or helped the US after SEPT..11th.

if..a commanding officer..came up to you or I..with orders to soften the thugs up..

you know what...

WE WOULD HAVE DONE ALOT OF THE SAME STUFF..

NO RAPE...i cannot see how or why they did that..
but i imagine..
they would be scarred mentally and physically..or dead..

we are dealing with a culture that isnt affected by normal modes...of cooperation.

thats why war is a bad thing..and people have bad memories...and flash backs over things they HAD TO DO..not that they wanted too.

i have several family members in NAM...one was a advisor.in the early days..
VC..or suspected VC had a tough time..once they were caught..

PS...

why are we (the US..and Britian ) the only countries to be held accountable for the Geneva Convention.

they need to toss that book out..out dated...and in need of a severe revision.
they didnt have alot of suicide bombers and such back then.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 4:53:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2004 4:54:34 PM EST by The_Neutral_Observer]

Originally Posted By THISISME:
Sounds like torture to me.

Here is what was going on according to the International Red Cross and the Military investigating officers based upon confessions of those involved.

Prisoners were hooded and stripped and handcuffed. Many of the prisoners were cuffed so tightly that the cuffs pierced the skin and damaged or severed the nerves.

They were beaten with pistols/rifle butts and clubs. Repeatedly kicked and punched (one of the reported dead died after being repeatedly kicked.)

The prisoners were forced to masturbate. They were forced into positions of sexual contact with others. The prisoners were sodomized with broomsticks and large light sticks.

At least one female prisoner was raped while hooded and cuffed. It has not been determined yet how many guards were involved.

Prisoners were told that if they did not comply their families would be raped and murdered by US troops.

Electrocution was used as a form of torture.

Chemicals were used to burn prisoners.

No one has copped to the 25 deaths yet and at least twelve appear to be murders.

All of these things were done before any American/coalition or contractor bodies were dragged through the streets.



It doesn't sound like torture to The Neutral Observer. It sounds like bullshit. Here's why:

First, why the hell would the U.S., with the most technologically advanced military in the world, revert to such stupid, inefficient third-world style interrogation tactics?

Second, how many of you believe U.S. soldiers would rape prisoners? To do that to a woman is one of the biggest taboos in this society, and you believe any U.S. soldier would do it to another man? Plus, have you ever seen arab women? They look like crosses between goats and camels.

Hooded and handcuffed? Boo fucking hoo. How do you propose to restrain someone who is quite willing to commit a suicide bombing. Do you think all of those beatings were undeserved?

And finally, it's reported by the U.S. media. That's reason enough to believe it's bullshit.

The piles of naked men is really odd, though, and taking those pictures was criminally stupid. What exactly was going on in that prison remains to be seen, but it is doubtful that anyone could be that incompetent to perform all of those actions and take pictures while it was being done. Especially if it was part of an organized interrogation process. It just doesn't make logical sense.

The more The Neutral Observer hears about this, the less He believes that any of it is true.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 5:12:25 PM EST
All those methods of torture and humiliation sound like business as usual, at least as far as how Arabs treat THEIR prisoners.

I frankly believe that many of the claims are bullshit.

How ironic that it's ARABS who are screaming loudest over some alleged torture committed by some of our troops, and yet Arabs torture their prisoners as standard operating procedure.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

Of course, our troops must NEVER stoop so low as to torture prisoners. We're better than that. But if a prisoner acts up, well, we all have limits on what we'll put up with, and I realize that. There will be times when a guard gets all his buttons pushed by some scumbag terrorist wannabe, and I can't really blame him if he takes decidedly unpleasant action against said scumbag. I can't condone that, but I can see that it's going to happen from time to time.

CJ



Link Posted: 5/8/2004 5:16:32 PM EST
If its panties from a big fat chick with skid marks then yes it is tourture.
Link Posted: 5/9/2004 6:07:57 AM EST
If they threatened to put Rosie O'Donnell's panties on my head I'd sing like a canary. Can you image how bad the smell must be?

GunLvr
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