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Posted: 10/4/2004 1:29:23 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:32:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 1:33:53 PM EST by Cypher214]
Even if it was a pen, that would still be against the rules.

It looks a lot more like notecards or a folded piece of paper to me. I mean... does it really take that long to uncap a pen?

EDIT: It looks like he sets the object from his pocket down onto the podium, then picks up a pen off of the podium and removes the cap.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:32:54 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:33:25 PM EST
And he'd be unfolding a pen for what reason? Even if it is a pen it's still against the rules. Not that it maters anyway.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:33:40 PM EST
I don't think it really matters, you can't change the perception people have of how the debate went. What's done is done. We need to move on to Friday night. This makes us look like whinny little pussies and that is something that is best left to the democrats.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:33:59 PM EST
If it's a pen, it's one that looks exactly like a piece of paper or small notebook.

SG

Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:36:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By spm681:
I don't think it really matters, you can't change the perception people have of how the debate went. What's done is done. We need to move on to Friday night. This makes us look like whinny little pussies and that is something that is best left to the democrats.



Horseshit. If he brought something into that debate, he broke the rules 100%. It shows that he at least disregards the rules in something as important as the presidential debates. It speaks volumes for his character.

On the other hand, if it was in fact a cheat sheet of some type, that would make his performance at the debate 100% shit since he had help from the sheet.

This is NOT a petty issue.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:36:55 PM EST
The Dems will say or do ANYTHING to hoodwink the public.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:38:06 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:39:32 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:39:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 1:42:04 PM EST by raven]
Kerry campaign spokesman David Wade remained angry at the bloggers' guilt-by-insinuation.

"The right-wing attack machine will say anything to steal a debate do-over," he said.

"We plead guilty to having a pen."

www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/31273.htm

That's an admission. They broke the rules. And they do it with impunity. Because what's going to happen if they cheat? Are the Republicans going to call the cops? Start an investigation? And if they say anything, Kerry's team will just say how petty and desperate the GOP must be.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:43:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By raven:
Kerry campaign spokesman David Wade remained angry at the bloggers' guilt-by-insinuation.

"The right-wing attack machine will say anything to steal a debate do-over," he said.

"We plead guilty to having a pen."

www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/31273.htm

That's an admission. They broke the rules. And they do it with impunity. Because what's going to happen if they cheat? Are the Republicans going to call the cops? Start an investigation? And if they say anything, they'll say how petty and desperate the GOP must be.



They want it to be a petty issue that he BROKE THE GODDAMN RULES so that everyone just laughs it off. If Bush had done the same, they would be screaming for blood.

I hate the group of Dems working with Kerry.

This issue must be pushed.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:45:54 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:46:48 PM EST
Pen my ass. What kind of pen is 3"x5" and rectangular.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:48:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sodie:
Pen my ass. What kind of pen is 3"x5" and rectangular.



I stand by my notecard statement.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:51:00 PM EST
You guys are funny.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:52:30 PM EST

Hehe, can I play DUer for a minute? 11 posts, joined the board in August... you're a plant! A PLANT I tell you! You even ponied up $20 to watch us in our secret He Man Women Haters clubhouse.... mwuahahahahahaha

Welcome to ARFCOM!




Sorry not a DUer nor a plant. I've been coming to AR-15 for the last year in anticipation of Sept 13th. I joined the board cuz it has provided tons of good info and I thought it was a good investment fot the info and the ability to use the search function.

Democrats cheat. Why are you guys surprised by this?? If you doubt that look at what's going on in Ohio. We are more than likely going to loose Ohio unless Bush can build up a cheat proof margin, say around 6 to 8 points. You can whine all you want about it, hell I even agree with you. The bottom line is that no one in the media will really give a shit about this, but the media will run with the fact that the Republicans are whinning and making an accuse for Bush's performance.

Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:53:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 1:59:14 PM EST by Fishpaw]
I heard what he smuggled into the debate was a can of whoopass! Actually a lot of the rules were broken , such as the no reaction shot rule, and no shots from behind the candidates, and a host of others. But what it comes down to is the candidates and the issues. There are still 2 more debates plus the Edwards/cheney one on tuesday. So he had paper, or a pen, it wasnt some sort of magical pen or enchanted paper. Kerry is a better debater, Bush tends to stumble over his words, thats no secret and I dont understand why everyone is so surprised.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:01:33 PM EST
Because it gives them something to blame the loss on, silly.

I'm not saying I think Kerry is the man for the job, but he won the debate. I can accept it.


Originally Posted By Fishpaw:
I heard what he smuggled into the debate was a can of whoopass! Actually a lot of the rules were broken , such as the no reaction shot rule, and no shots from behind the candidates, and a host of others. But what it comes down to is the candidates and the issues. There are still 2 more debates plus the Edwards/cheney one on tuesday. So he had paper, or a pen, it wasnt some sort of magical pen or enchanted paper. Kerry is a better debater, Bush tends to stumble over his words, thats no secret and I dont understand why everyone is so surprised.

Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:04:06 PM EST
So you would still think he won the debate if it came out that the questions that were going to be asked in the debate were written on the card he pulled out of his pocket?
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:06:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By skeetar:
Because it gives them something to blame the loss on, silly.

I'm not saying I think Kerry is the man for the job, but he won the debate. I can accept it.



I can too. Bush did a miserable job and embarrassed the hell out of me. But rules are rules. They were agreed upon, and mutually binding. But Democrats, as usual, think they are somehow above the law because they are "the good guys". Rules just dont apply to them. It's fucking bullshit, and I am so tired of watching them get away with it over and over again.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:07:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 2:09:09 PM EST by Lightning_P38]
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:07:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By Fishpaw:
I heard what he smuggled into the debate was a can of whoopass!he


There IS a difference between the candidates breaking the rules and the broadcasters breaking the rules.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:10:59 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:11:35 PM EST
I sure can't tell from the videos or that still what it is.

WHo cares either way.

Making a mountain from that molehill LOL I'm pretty sure, we'll never know .


Chris


Originally Posted By KenR_RedStarArms:
PAPER !!

www.redstararms.com/paper.jpg

Ken RSA

Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:16:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:
Of course it doesn't make it any easier to speak or remember your lines if you have them written down in front of you, it is not likely to make you appear more confident when you do not have to pause to phrase a thought on the spot, having everything you are going to say in writing in front of you could in no way give a debater any advantage whatsoever. If it had been a fair debate, I would be (and until I heard about this was) giving Kerry the unqualified win, knowing he had cheat sheets, makes me rethink my opinion of it, I thought Kerry came off as better prepared and sharper than Bush, and for that I felt he did a better job, Bush paused and stumbled to much compared to his opponant, now I have to wonder if it was because Kerry was reading from a card and able to present a more confident image, because he knew that he didn't have to worry about misphrasing or forgetting anything.

Edited to add: If this had been a duel and kerry had shot him first I would certainly assume Bush lost and Kerry was the better Dueler, but if I was later to find out that Kerry had glued Bushs pistol to its holster I would have some doubt about the credibility of his victory.



I am not sure whether a note card would have made a difference as to the smoothness of either candidate's delivery.

The truth is, Kerry has has months to prepare - everything Bush might say could be easily predicted, as bush ahs been consistent with his message from day one.

Bush could not prepare for what Kerry might say, as Kerry has no principled points of view and changes his focus daily. Many times in the debate it was obvious Bush was thinking, "where the fuck did THAT come from?"
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:18:24 PM EST
Looks at the end like he's handling a pen, pulling the cap off and putting it on the other end. It also looked like the pen was probably in a case of some sort.

The biggest problem was that Bush looked and acted tired after spending a day with Florida storm victims. Good idea with not so good results.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:22:25 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:26:22 PM EST
There is a long thread on this subject in the Oreilly premium forums...
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:27:37 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:28:01 PM EST
Damn he must have some kung fu grip to be able to unfold a pen. He must get that hand strength from having such an ugly wife.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:30:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By Adam_White:
Bush could not prepare for what Kerry might say, as Kerry has no principled points of view and changes his focus daily. Many times in the debate it was obvious Bush was thinking, "where the fuck did THAT come from?"



Stand-up boxing a slimy eel is tough.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:31:00 PM EST
Kerry has ZERO integrity. It doesn't matter what he pulled out of his pocket, he broke the rules.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:57:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:

Originally Posted By Sammich:
There is a long thread on this subject in the Oreilly premium forums...



I imagine there is a nice long thread about it over at the Du as well.



I was just implying/hoping that maybe Bill will pick it up and it may get coverage but I realize that this is extremely unlikely.
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