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Posted: 6/29/2015 10:50:03 AM EDT
"County clerks in Texas who object to gay marriage can refuse to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples despite last week's landmark U.S. Supreme Court ruling requiring states to allow same-sex marriage, Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton said on Sunday."

Link
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:50:46 AM EDT
I think that's kinda stupid. A marriage license is a STATE thing, not a religious thing.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:52:43 AM EDT
Can police and firemen refuse to work on Sunday, too?
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:52:54 AM EDT
Because that will totally hold up to legal challenge. .
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:53:20 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
I think that's kinda stupid. A marriage license is a STATE thing, not a religious thing.
View Quote


This.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:53:31 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
I think that's kinda stupid. A marriage license is a STATE thing, not a religious thing.
View Quote

Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:55:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2015 10:55:50 AM EDT by 2minkey]
Originally Posted By Stevil1300:
"County clerks in Texas who object to gay marriage can refuse to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples despite last week's landmark U.S. Supreme Court ruling requiring states to allow same-sex marriage, Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton said on Sunday."

Link
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It's nice that we can accommodate their feelings.

Like, it would also be neat if a civil employee could deny a CCW in a shall-issue state FOR THE SAKE OF THE CHILDREN.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:56:08 AM EDT
If they cannot follow the law, then they need to resign.  The whole Cultural Revolution thing in which the States have been stripped of all powers is wrong.  But gay marriage is the law of the land like it or not.  

Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and give unto God that which is God's.....Jesus

The church needs to stay out of State recognition of legal domestic relationships.  The State needs to stay out of religious actions such as a wedding.

This got to be a mess when ministers became agents of the State in declaring people to be married.

But the bible is clear that we are to follow civil law or be willing to pay for it as a matter of conscience.  If being a Christian means you have to lose your gov job, then so be it.  As Christians we are to be bold in proclaiming the Gospel even if it costs us employment.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:56:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:58:02 AM EDT
Texans should be pissed off that this man is about to waste hundreds of thousands of your tax dollars on a stupid and pointless legal challenge.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:58:08 AM EDT
Conservatives need to drop the whole religion-in-government and gay hate BS.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:58:11 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By krpind:
That kinda pisses me off.

We are either a nation of laws or we aren't. This is exactly like the DC officials not issuing gun permits after Heller. It is exactly the same.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What he said

Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:58:20 AM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Squatch:
This.
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Originally Posted By Squatch:



Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:

I think that's kinda stupid. A marriage license is a STATE thing, not a religious thing.




This.
Its a STATE thing ... yes, not a FEDERAL thing

 
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:58:43 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By krpind:
That kinda pisses me off.

We are either a nation of laws or we aren't. This is exactly like the DC officials not issuing gun permits after Heller. It is exactly the same.
View Quote



Yep
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:58:58 AM EDT
FPNI.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 10:59:36 AM EDT
Heck, Chicago/DC routinely ignore SCOTUS rulings. . .

Doesn't make it right in this case, but I admire Texas for doing it.  Good for the goose, good for the gander.  



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:00:28 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By krpind:
That kinda pisses me off.

We are either a nation of laws or we aren't. This is exactly like the DC officials not issuing gun permits after Heller. It is exactly the same.
View Quote


Well, sad to say, we are no longer a nation of laws.  The Supreme Court burned that bridge when they ruled on Obamacare.  

We are now a nation of making it up as you go along.  Whatever the ruling class's "intent" is is good enough, no matter what the actual law states.

Once the government stops following the rule of law, the citizenry has no moral obligation to follow the same.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:01:41 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By krpind:
That kinda pisses me off.

We are either a nation of laws or we aren't. This is exactly like the DC officials not issuing gun permits after Heller. It is exactly the same.
View Quote


E.X.A.C.T.L.Y.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:01:49 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
I think that's kinda stupid. A marriage license is a STATE thing, not a religious thing.
View Quote


I agree. They have no right to refuse the service, none at all.

Churches otoh have the right to rufuse.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:02:27 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By 2minkey:


It's nice that we can accommodate their feelings.

Like, it would also be neat if a civil employee could deny a CCW in a shall-issue state FOR THE SAKE OF THE CHILDREN.
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Originally Posted By 2minkey:
Originally Posted By Stevil1300:
"County clerks in Texas who object to gay marriage can refuse to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples despite last week's landmark U.S. Supreme Court ruling requiring states to allow same-sex marriage, Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton said on Sunday."

Link


It's nice that we can accommodate their feelings.

Like, it would also be neat if a civil employee could deny a CCW in a shall-issue state FOR THE SAKE OF THE CHILDREN.



Although I usually don't agree with a lot of things you say but on this you are right.

However it may be the law it is an absolute sickening state of affairs this nation has now embarked upon.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:04:11 AM EDT
lol

Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:04:28 AM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:



Its a STATE thing ... yes, not a FEDERAL thing  
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Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:



Originally Posted By Squatch:


Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:

I think that's kinda stupid. A marriage license is a STATE thing, not a religious thing.




This.
Its a STATE thing ... yes, not a FEDERAL thing  
Bingo

 
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:06:41 AM EDT
I thought both the left and ARFCOM loved civil disobedience as a response to unjust laws?



Does 'Will not comply' ring a bell with anyone here?






Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:07:37 AM EDT
Interesting comments with a lot of valid points.

I view it as Texas believing in the notion of “Consent of the Governed.”  SCOTUS clearly overstepped their authority and AG Paxton is saying those that do not consent, don’t.

(Comparing this to CCW or Heller doesn’t work. There are no Constitutional Amendments protecting your right to marriage.)
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:07:40 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By krpind:
That kinda pisses me off.

We are either a nation of laws or we aren't. This is exactly like the DC officials not issuing gun permits after Heller. It is exactly the same.
View Quote

I'm giddy.

Chaos is coming.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:08:15 AM EDT
You mean he's doing what liberal states (and D.C.) are doing when it comes to the Heller SCOTUS decision?  Ignoring the results and keeping the status quo?



Eric  




Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:09:30 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Stevil1300:
Interesting comments with a lot of valid points.

I view it as Texas believing in the notion of “Consent of the Governed.”  SCOTUS clearly overstepped their authority and AG Paxton is saying those that do not consent, don’t.

(Comparing this to CCW or Heller doesn’t work. There are no Constitutional Amendments protecting your right to marriage.)
View Quote


Well, unfortunately for that theory, the Constitution explicitly states that Texas courts must abide by SCOTUS decisions.  So when this gets to court, there's only one Constitutional way the judges can rule.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:12:51 AM EDT
I'm actually okay with this. the SCOTUS cannot write laws which in itself it did. By their logic any contract dealt on the state level has to be acknowledge nation wide.

We can debate what should and should not be but the only thing that is what is present ie the US Constitution and the SCOTUS without a doubt impeded on the 10th Amendment.

I really hope though this does lead nationwide carry. Based on their logic they used it should be. It could be, but probably wont be because the SCOTUS is a biased entity to whomever is in power. I much rather see this lead to term limits and a legitimate voting on judges per amendments  than anything else.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:13:47 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Eric_Mayer:
You mean he's doing what liberal states (and D.C.) are doing when it comes to the Heller SCOTUS decision?  Ignoring the results and keeping the status quo?

Eric  

View Quote


I think the difference here is that he's saying that individual clerks can choose to not marry gays.

The states ban on gay marriage has been found unconstitutional but he's not willing to put the Texas' money where his mouth is... but he has no problem with an individual clerk defying the SC.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:14:40 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Snips:

Well, unfortunately for that theory, the Constitution explicitly states that Texas courts must abide by SCOTUS decisions.  So when this gets to court, there's only one Constitutional way the judges can rule.
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Originally Posted By Snips:
Originally Posted By Stevil1300:
Interesting comments with a lot of valid points.

I view it as Texas believing in the notion of “Consent of the Governed.”  SCOTUS clearly overstepped their authority and AG Paxton is saying those that do not consent, don’t.

(Comparing this to CCW or Heller doesn’t work. There are no Constitutional Amendments protecting your right to marriage.)

Well, unfortunately for that theory, the Constitution explicitly states that Texas courts must abide by SCOTUS decisions.  So when this gets to court, there's only one Constitutional way the judges can rule.

Valid point. I'll apply the TJ school of thought to the situation. I don't believe in rolling over. (No pun intended. )

“I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.”
Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, Paris, January 30, 1787

Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:15:05 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLLDn7MjbF0
View Quote



Great speech.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:20:55 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:
Its a STATE thing ... yes, not a FEDERAL thing  
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Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:
Originally Posted By Squatch:
Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
I think that's kinda stupid. A marriage license is a STATE thing, not a religious thing.


This.
Its a STATE thing ... yes, not a FEDERAL thing  


The 14th.  Equal protection is a 150 year old argument for/against the nationalization of the BoR.  Like it or not, once the government gets involved in something, it can't deny it to people based on race, gender, etc.

That being said, the AG is giving the go ahead for your local/county official to be even more lazy.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:22:03 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Hugo_Stiglitz:


E.X.A.C.T.L.Y.
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Originally Posted By Hugo_Stiglitz:
Originally Posted By krpind:
That kinda pisses me off.

We are either a nation of laws or we aren't. This is exactly like the DC officials not issuing gun permits after Heller. It is exactly the same.


E.X.A.C.T.L.Y.

If the SCOTUS said I had to turn in my guns I wouldn't.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:23:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2015 11:26:30 AM EDT by DeltaElite777]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Stevil1300:

Valid point. I'll apply the TJ school of thought to the situation. I don't believe in rolling over. (No pun intended. )

“I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.”
Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, Paris, January 30, 1787

View Quote


I dig it.  But there's also a "Take the King's Shilling" angle at play here.

If your job is to enforce laws and regulations (and county clerks basically do that), you can't just pick and choose which ones you want to follow.  You want to protest what your job now entails, that's fine, protest away, but your job still entails it... do the job or quit.

I don't think Thomas Jefferson was running around collecting Stamp Act taxes when we wrote the Declaration of Independence.  
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:24:22 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By BANDITOZ71:



Great speech.
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Originally Posted By BANDITOZ71:
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLLDn7MjbF0



Great speech.


It didn't work out too well for that racist fuck, did it?
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:26:00 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jack_T:
Heck, Chicago/DC routinely ignore SCOTUS rulings. . .

Doesn't make it right in this case, but I admire Texas for doing it.  Good for the goose, good for the gander.  



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
View Quote


Yep.

Arfcomm is all about civil disobedience.  Until someone likes what they don't like.

Is this illegal?  Probably.

I'll get around to caring about it eventually.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:27:21 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By RDak:

If the SCOTUS said I had to turn in my guns I wouldn't.
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Originally Posted By RDak:
Originally Posted By Hugo_Stiglitz:
Originally Posted By krpind:
That kinda pisses me off.

We are either a nation of laws or we aren't. This is exactly like the DC officials not issuing gun permits after Heller. It is exactly the same.


E.X.A.C.T.L.Y.

If the SCOTUS said I had to turn in my guns I wouldn't.


Don't worry, all the libertarians suddenly turned statists will get them for you.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:27:32 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By TontoGoldstein:
If they cannot follow the law, then they need to resign.  The whole Cultural Revolution thing in which the States have been stripped of all powers is wrong.  But gay marriage is the law of the land like it or not.  

Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and give unto God that which is God's.....Jesus

The church needs to stay out of State recognition of legal domestic relationships.  The State needs to stay out of religious actions such as a wedding.

This got to be a mess when ministers became agents of the State in declaring people to be married.

But the bible is clear that we are to follow civil law or be willing to pay for it as a matter of conscience.  If being a Christian means you have to lose your gov job, then so be it.  As Christians we are to be bold in proclaiming the Gospel even if it costs us employment.
View Quote


Well stated.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:27:39 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By JAD762:


Yep.

Arfcomm is all about civil disobedience.  Until someone likes what they don't like.

Is this illegal?  Probably.

I'll get around to caring about it eventually.
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Originally Posted By JAD762:
Originally Posted By Jack_T:
Heck, Chicago/DC routinely ignore SCOTUS rulings. . .

Doesn't make it right in this case, but I admire Texas for doing it.  Good for the goose, good for the gander.  



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Yep.

Arfcomm is all about civil disobedience.  Until someone likes what they don't like.

Is this illegal?  Probably.

I'll get around to caring about it eventually.


Civil disobedience refers to private citizens.  Not to state officials refusing to do their duty.  It really is no different than your local county clerk refusing to issue a CCW license because they don't like guns.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:28:37 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Snips:


Civil disobedience refers to private citizens.  Not to state officials refusing to do their duty.  It really is no different than your local county clerk refusing to issue a CCW license because they don't like guns.
View Quote


If Snips and I agree on something....

Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:29:47 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By 57Strat:
Conservatives need to drop the whole religion-in-government and gay hate BS.
View Quote




<-------- DU is that way.

One of the dumbest things I have ever read on this site. How long did it take you to formulate such a stupid as hell thought?  

Religion is the only thing that keeps the U.S. from spiraling into another 3rd world s%#thole.

Just because you have deluded yourself into believing that God doesn't exist and that gay is ok doesn't mean that you are right.

When the United States stopped having a biblical world view, and started having a do what feels good, as long as it doesn't affect me, pillow biters and trannys are ok  worldview is when we started to decline
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:30:13 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:

I dig it.  But there's also a "Take the King's Shilling" angle at play here.

If your job is to enforce laws and regulations (and county clerks basically do that), you can't just pick and choose which ones you want to follow.  You want to protest what your job now entails, that's fine, protest away, but your job still entails it... do the job or quit.
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Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
Originally Posted By Stevil1300:

Valid point. I'll apply the TJ school of thought to the situation. I don't believe in rolling over. (No pun intended. )

“I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.”
Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, Paris, January 30, 1787


I dig it.  But there's also a "Take the King's Shilling" angle at play here.

If your job is to enforce laws and regulations (and county clerks basically do that), you can't just pick and choose which ones you want to follow.  You want to protest what your job now entails, that's fine, protest away, but your job still entails it... do the job or quit.

Agreed.

They took an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States and of the republic of Texas. If they feel know this ruling violates both, should they still do their job?

The left doesn't accept rulings, laws or the Constitution - they just keep doing what they want.

It's long past time we take the gloves off and fight to win. (Or at least throw a punch once in a while.)
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:30:17 AM EDT
He is correct - but the fact is that while they can do this, most likely it will cost a hell of a lot more than they want to pay.



You can commit murder, but that does not remove the consequences of it.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:30:43 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By tactical221:




<-------- DU is that way.

One of the dumbest things I have ever read on this site. How long did it take you to formulate such a stupid as hell thought?  

Religion is the only thing that keeps the U.S. from spiraling into another 3rd world s%#thole.

Just because you have deluded yourself into believing that God doesn't exist and that gay is ok doesn't mean that you are right.

When the United States stopped having a biblical world view, and started having a do what feels good, as long as it doesn't affect me, pillow biters and trannys are ok  worldview is when we started to decline
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Originally Posted By tactical221:
Originally Posted By 57Strat:
Conservatives need to drop the whole religion-in-government and gay hate BS.




<-------- DU is that way.

One of the dumbest things I have ever read on this site. How long did it take you to formulate such a stupid as hell thought?  

Religion is the only thing that keeps the U.S. from spiraling into another 3rd world s%#thole.

Just because you have deluded yourself into believing that God doesn't exist and that gay is ok doesn't mean that you are right.

When the United States stopped having a biblical world view, and started having a do what feels good, as long as it doesn't affect me, pillow biters and trannys are ok  worldview is when we started to decline


Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:31:38 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Snips:


Civil disobedience refers to private citizens.  Not to state officials refusing to do their duty.  It really is no different than your local county clerk refusing to issue a CCW license because they don't like guns.
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Originally Posted By Snips:
Originally Posted By JAD762:
Originally Posted By Jack_T:
Heck, Chicago/DC routinely ignore SCOTUS rulings. . .

Doesn't make it right in this case, but I admire Texas for doing it.  Good for the goose, good for the gander.  



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Yep.

Arfcomm is all about civil disobedience.  Until someone likes what they don't like.

Is this illegal?  Probably.

I'll get around to caring about it eventually.


Civil disobedience refers to private citizens.  Not to state officials refusing to do their duty.  It really is no different than your local county clerk refusing to issue a CCW license because they don't like guns.


Ever notice how everyone's a statist when they like the laws?
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:31:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:32:33 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:


...unless you're a judge, in which case you can just invent new ones.

This is a losing battle and will ultimately, if continued, end in a further rebuke from the high court.

But isn't it interesting how selective folks are about following the law and the morality of civil disobedience.
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Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
you can't just pick and choose which ones you want to follow.


...unless you're a judge, in which case you can just invent new ones.

This is a losing battle and will ultimately, if continued, end in a further rebuke from the high court.

But isn't it interesting how selective folks are about following the law and the morality of civil disobedience.


Not seeing any civil disobedience here.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:32:49 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Stevil1300:


The left doesn't accept rulings, laws or the Constitution - they just keep doing what they want.

It's long past time we take the gloves off and fight to win. (Or at least throw a punch once in a while.)
View Quote


Oh, make no mistake, if this really is just the opening salvo in Texas saying "Fuck it, we're foing!", I'm seriously considering moving to Texas.  

But I don't think it is...
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:33:59 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:


...unless you're a judge, in which case you can just invent new ones.

This is a losing battle and will ultimately, if continued, end in a further rebuke from the high court.

But isn't it interesting how selective folks are about following the law and the morality of civil disobedience.
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Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
you can't just pick and choose which ones you want to follow.


...unless you're a judge, in which case you can just invent new ones.

This is a losing battle and will ultimately, if continued, end in a further rebuke from the high court.

But isn't it interesting how selective folks are about following the law and the morality of civil disobedience.


Civil disobedience is when an individual defies the law.

A functionary of the clerk's office is not an individual.  They are an arm of the state.  This is a ministerial act and the clerk's office cannot fail to discharge its duty.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:39:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2015 11:43:21 AM EDT by Stevil1300]
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Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:

Oh, make no mistake, if this really is just the opening salvo in Texas saying "Fuck it, we're foing!", I'm seriously considering moving to Texas.  

But I don't think it is...
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Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
Originally Posted By Stevil1300:

The left doesn't accept rulings, laws or the Constitution - they just keep doing what they want.

It's long past time we take the gloves off and fight to win. (Or at least throw a punch once in a while.)

Oh, make no mistake, if this really is just the opening salvo in Texas saying "Fuck it, we're foing!", I'm seriously considering moving to Texas.  

But I don't think it is...

Texas attorney general calls court's gay marriage decision 'a lawless ruling'

"A ruling by the US Supreme Court is considered the law of the land, but a judge-made edict that is not based in the law or the Constitution diminishes faith in our system of government and the rule of law,” Paxton said.

His condemnation of the decision echoes similar remarks by Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R), who said in a statement Friday that no “adverse action” may be taken against state officials acting – or refusing to act – on their religious beliefs."

CSM

ETA: From same article, LA and MS are taking steps as well......

"In Louisiana, officials won’t be granting marriage licenses to same-sex couples just yet, according to LGBTQ Nation. The Louisiana Clerks Association advised clerks to wait until the end of a 25-day period for the high court to consider a rehearing. In 2004, voters approved a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage in the state, which a federal judge upheld last year."

"In Mississippi, state house judiciary chairman Andy Gipson (R) said the state may remove the marriage license requirement altogether in light of the ruling, according to The Clarion-Ledger."
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:39:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2015 11:40:28 AM EDT by RDak]
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Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:


...unless you're a judge, in which case you can just invent new ones.

This is a losing battle and will ultimately, if continued, end in a further rebuke from the high court.

But isn't it interesting how selective folks are about following the law and the morality of civil disobedience.
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Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:
you can't just pick and choose which ones you want to follow.


...unless you're a judge, in which case you can just invent new ones.

This is a losing battle and will ultimately, if continued, end in a further rebuke from the high court.

But isn't it interesting how selective folks are about following the law and the morality of civil disobedience.

Look at your PM's please.

ETA:  Oh, TOTALLY off topic.
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