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Posted: 3/26/2009 7:46:18 PM EDT
I seen on the local news tonight that the Pgh police had streets blocked off in one local neighborhood so they can train. Really what is the true purpose of this?
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:46:49 PM EDT
experience in a realistic environment?
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:48:01 PM EDT
Shut up. Do not ask questions. You are not qualified to question them.


Ask around
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:48:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2009 7:56:35 PM EDT by Tony7189]
They're getting ready.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:48:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Thom101:
experience in a realistic environment?


I know that but are they expecting something to happen? I would think their training facilitys would be more than enough. I'd like to see some LEO chime in.

Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:53:03 PM EDT
All the better to step on your neck.



Personally I believe there is too much cross contamination from the army into the police.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:55:44 PM EDT
You'll find out soon enough.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:55:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By arjohnson:
Originally Posted By Thom101:
experience in a realistic environment?


I know that but are they expecting something to happen? I would think their training facilitys would be more than enough. I'd like to see some LEO chime in.



Just like the military, eventually your "training facilities" lose training value and you need to change it up to somewhere not so familiar and canned.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:56:19 PM EDT
You better keep a LOW profile........
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 7:56:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By arjohnson:
Originally Posted By Thom101:
experience in a realistic environment?


I know that but are they expecting something to happen? I would think their training facilitys would be more than enough. I'd like to see some LEO chime in.


Yeah, I mean, it's not like we've had any people wandering around neighborhoods randomly shooting people or anything like that, right?


Link Posted: 3/26/2009 8:02:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By arjohnson:
Originally Posted By Thom101:
experience in a realistic environment?


I know that but are they expecting something to happen? I would think their training facilitys would be more than enough. I'd like to see some LEO chime in.


Yeah, I mean, it's not like we've had any people wandering around neighborhoods randomly shooting people or anything like that, right?




And this is something new..

Link Posted: 3/26/2009 8:03:09 PM EDT
And so it begins...
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 8:09:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By arjohnson:
Originally Posted By Thom101:
experience in a realistic environment?


I know that but are they expecting something to happen? I would think their training facilitys would be more than enough. I'd like to see some LEO chime in.



I'm not a LEO but in MN you have to pay for your own academy which I am in so I train with them quite bit. An open room only works so well sometimes you have to practice in a real neighbor hood, in real houses, to see what an officer would actually do in a place they would actually work
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 8:10:17 PM EDT

Tell me why police now need to train on city streets?


Uhmmm... Because that's where they work?

Link Posted: 3/26/2009 11:03:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CanteTinza:

Tell me why police now need to train on city streets?


Uhmmm... Because that's where they work?



Can't be that, makes too much sense. That would be like fire departments inspecting and touring industrial sites and other potential fire sites. Like the Army and Marines training their troops in the Mojave Desert instead of at the heavily wooded bases in the Carolinas and Georgia.
Link Posted: 3/26/2009 11:20:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By arjohnson:
I seen on the local news tonight that the Pgh police had streets blocked off in one local neighborhood so they can train. Really what is the true purpose of this?


What "kind" of training? Budgets are limited so you can only build so many different types of dedicated training facilities.

Brian

Link Posted: 3/27/2009 5:27:24 AM EDT
yeah those guys should all do their training in academy role-play scenarios!
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 5:36:04 AM EDT
I demand no training.

Why do the Police need to be trained anyway?

Link Posted: 3/27/2009 5:36:56 AM EDT
Di d you even think before you posted this thread or did you just get your tin foil re-tightened?

Cops work on the street, so training on the street makes sense. They are probably doing either crowd control or civil disturbance training.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 5:47:42 AM EDT
My SWAT team trains in vacant houses which we have been given permission to use. It is a fresh training enviroment since the shoothouse at the firearms facility gets really old really quick.

We cordon off the area so that the sheeple don't get under our feet.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 5:48:18 AM EDT
Our city gets a few offers a year for houses to donate to be destroyed by the city. When we take them up on the offer the PD beats the hell out of the place then we do a live burn exercise and once our training is done the house is burned to the foundation. It saves the homeowner a lot of demolition expenses.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 10:59:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By packinheavy:
Di d you even think before you posted this thread or did you just get your tin foil re-tightened?

Cops work on the street, so training on the street makes sense. They are probably doing either crowd control or civil disturbance training.


Yes I thought about it, just never seen it til recently. I also think my tinfoil needs tightened up a bit also.

Link Posted: 3/27/2009 10:59:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tony7189:
They're getting ready.




To confiscate our guns and kidnap our women and rape our horses.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 11:06:04 AM EDT
Did this area include a donut shop?..........Sorry guys I couldn't help myself. Bad stereotype! Bad!
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 11:06:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2009 11:07:18 AM EDT by wingnutx]
Perhaps because they work on city streets, and some wiseguy thought that it would be a good idea to train the same way you operate.


FD does this all the time.


Link Posted: 3/27/2009 11:08:17 AM EDT
Hide the dog! Woof...
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 11:09:17 AM EDT
Conditioning the population.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 11:13:16 AM EDT
Practice like you play.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 11:16:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By arjohnson:
Originally Posted By Thom101:
experience in a realistic environment?


I know that but are they expecting something to happen? I would think their training facilitys would be more than enough. I'd like to see some LEO chime in.



Training facilities? Don't be naive. Do you have any idea how much a "training facility" costs? The first thing in budgets to be cut is training. No one spends money on training because admin doesn't give a shit about it. Almost every kind of training we use at my department is privately offered. IE, some dude has an old fucked up trailer on his property or the city is about to demolish an old library, or the local scrap yard will tow a trashed car to the range for us to use. Other than that there is no "training facility". The US Marshal's have a simmunition training floor at the top of a 100 year old building in downtown Dallas that we use. Other than that, there isn't jack crap. Travelling to other facilities throughout the US is a joke. Do you have any idea how much it costs to take 10 people to a MOUT site out of state or even in-state? It's not just the cost but the cost of not having an officer on the street doing his primary job. Only the very, very large departments in the US have full time SWAT teams and even those are really small, and very, very expensive.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 11:17:20 AM EDT
If you want to prepare for a mall shooting......I'd try to find a mall. If you going to prepare for a school shooting.......I think I'd find a school. If I wanted to practice doing dynamic entrys on a house....well, I think I would find a house to use and block the street to keep the gawkers at bay. Lot's of reasons.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 11:20:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2009 9:06:04 PM EDT by wingnutx]

Originally Posted By bcw107:

Do you have any idea how much a "training facility" costs?

I built the world's largest indoor steel shoot-haus back in 2004. It was about 1.3 million dollars in materials.

Shipping to Iraq and local labor costs not included.

Fuckers burned it down with tracers about a year after it was done

edit: I think I am wrong about the price here. It's been a while.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 11:23:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 11:25:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By XDBACKUPGUN:

Originally Posted By Tony7189:
They're getting ready.




To confiscate our guns and kidnap our women and rape our horses.



You left out shoot our dogs and I'm pretty sure you meant rape our women.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 11:27:01 AM EDT
He meant: Rape our women, shoot our dogs, and rape our women.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 11:29:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By wingnutx:

Originally Posted By bcw107:

Do you have any idea how much a "training facility" costs?

I built the world's largest indoor steel shoot-haus back in 2004. It was about 1.3 million dollars in materials.

Shipping to Iraq and local labor costs not included.

Fuckers burned it down with tracers about a year after it was done


That is super cheap my friend. An NAPD driving pad can cost over a million. An indoor gunrange costs well over a million, even with only 6-8 lanes.

I'd like to see the layout of your place. Do you happen to have any pics or diagrams?
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 11:41:08 AM EDT
So...now we're complaining that the police, whose job it is to patrol the streets, work in the streets, catch criminals in the streets, etc., are training in the streets?

This is a joke thread, right?
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 11:42:47 AM EDT
I have a few pics here, halfway down the page. Click on a pic for a larger image. There were some good pics in the NYT, but I don't have the link.

I have no idea what the labor cost. We also had no zoning, no taxes, no land cost, none of the overhead you'd get in the USA. That stuff would be many times the cost of the steel and the rubber bricks.

Design and materials were from Range Systems. Looks like they've built some bigger ones since then, too.

Even with this killer setup, the users still went and found other buildings to play in. You can only do so much in one spot.



When I went through "MOUT for Dummies" during mobilization last year, we found empty offices to use.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 11:44:38 AM EDT
Pipe down lowly peasant and accept whatever your government sees fit to put upon you !!
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 11:45:35 AM EDT
Police: realistic environment
Citizens: conditioning
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 11:46:04 AM EDT
Fuck it. Let's just do it Live!!! <–––– Not exactly what you want to hear the next time the boys in blue show up right?
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 11:49:17 AM EDT
I'd like to know why joggers train in the streets instead of on the sidewalk.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 11:50:37 AM EDT
More effective response if you have moved on the terrain you may be called to.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 11:56:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By XDBACKUPGUN:

Originally Posted By Tony7189:
They're getting ready.




To confiscate our guns and kidnap our women and rape our horses.


Link Posted: 3/27/2009 11:59:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Justice23:
My SWAT team trains in vacant houses which we have been given permission to use. It is a fresh training enviroment since the shoothouse at the firearms facility gets really old really quick.

We cordon off the area so that the sheeple don't get under our feet.


That's what happens around here too.

After the police get done then the FD get to play.

Makes for a fun show.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 12:23:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tony555:
Originally Posted By Justice23:
My SWAT team trains in vacant houses which we have been given permission to use. It is a fresh training enviroment since the shoothouse at the firearms facility gets really old really quick.

We cordon off the area so that the sheeple don't get under our feet.


That's what happens around here too.

After the police get done then the FD get to play.

Makes for a fun show.




Yup.

When I lived in Nor Cal our company was hired to build a new house on the Mondavi (sp?) winery, but first we had to Demo the original house, saving some stuff for the family and stuff to be donated to some charity.

So one day I was inside taking out the cabinets and then walked outside holding a chainsaw right into the middle of a police training scenario that somebody forgot to tell me about. The poor deputy that was going though this DV scenario was kinda shocked to suddenly be confronted by a guy carrying a chainsaw in the middle of a family fight.

For a couple weeks Cops from every agency in the area used that house for training and when they were finally done the fire dept showed up and burned it down.

Link Posted: 3/27/2009 4:49:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Frank_The_Tank:
Conditioning the population.




On the nose.

Link Posted: 3/27/2009 5:18:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Justice23:
My SWAT team trains in vacant houses which we have been given permission to use. It is a fresh training enviroment since the shoothouse at the firearms facility gets really old really quick.

We cordon off the area so that the sheeple don't get under our feet.


This. Vacant houses we can destroy and get real time experience on exterior doors, break and rake, rams, etc...houses JUST LIKE YOURS!
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 5:25:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Thom101:
experience in a realistic environment?

This.
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 5:39:07 PM EDT
Even if you do have a dedicated training facility that is fully equipped with all the stuff you will run into in your common buildings, you still need to break out of there every so often.

when you train in a familiar facility, there is a huge tendancy to "game" the scenario to win rather than roll the way you normally would.

This holds true even in facilities you can quickly change to different configurations.
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